Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[ParaBul]

Postulate and freak out?

It gives me something to do when I'm not causing respiratory problems in children.

[Greg Roles]

It gives me something to do when I'm not causing respiratory problems in children.

Considering most 3.0 litre tradie utes like the D-Max have only recently gotten DPF's and proper NOX cats, not sure why you feel bad. For sure VW is putting out higher than expected, but how high compared to the typical Australian diesel?

[Eaglen00b]

Considering most 3.0 litre tradie utes like the D-Max have only recently gotten DPF's and proper NOX cats, not sure why you feel bad. For sure VW is putting out higher than expected, but how high compared to the typical Australian diesel?

Heh... I was behind an old Hilux Surf early this morning as I got on the freeway. The Surf was rolling coal from around 45kph on the on ramp for a good 2-300m to get up to 100kmh. DAYUMMMMMMn.

[Greg Roles]

Heh... I was behind an old Hilux Surf early this morning as I got on the freeway. The Surf was rolling coal from around 45kph on the on ramp for a good 2-300m to get up to 100kmh. DAYUMMMMMMn.

Oddly enough, as much as we all hate seeing and breathing that obvious black soot, the fact is you just cough that back up. It's the nano soot from DPF's that is starting to show up in peoples bloodstreams, seems it is directly absorbed via the lungs. Only with further added catalyst do you burn that down to virtually zero, luckily on smaller diesels the levels are low. There is no free lunch with regard to emissions.

Different story with NOx, the whole crux of this debate, but oddly enough that's far easier to handle, at least in my sports DPF testing. I do however have a much bigger initial NOx cat than the MK6 era diesels, only in the MK7 do VAG get serious with the NOx cat size. It does seem odd to me they had so much trouble with what is from an initial glance, a very very well designed system. Then again I'm not trying to meet the very latest Euro levels set in the USA, and each level is an order of magnitude harder to meet.

[ParaBul]

... trying to meet the very latest Euro levels set in the USA, and each level is an order of magnitude harder to meet.

I went looking for the numbers again.

In my case, I believe my MY12 Mk6 GTD is expected to meet Euro 4 limits, which (for NOx) is 250mg/km. Euro 5 is 180mg/km, Euro 6 is 80mg/km. https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2...#_Toc276984498

The lowest figure I could find for Californian emissions was 50mg/mile, or about 31mg/km (after 50,000 miles / 5 years). California: Light-duty: Emissions - Transportpolicy.net

These are for a standardised laboratory test, and I don't think anybody who understands emission regulations truly expects vehicle emissions to be below these limits in the real world. So any journalist beating up a story about vehicles in the real world emitting twice the laboratory limit is an ignoramus. But up to 40 times the limit is beyond a joke. Somewhere in between would be a "reasonable" result for real-world performance.

I couldn't find absolute mg/km readings from the tests that started this debacle, but I'll assume the media have done their best to beat this up. Working on the lowest Californian "limit" I could find, and using the worst case 40x factor that has been quoted, I'll guess the highest figure they ever measured was about 1200mg/km.

Compared to the Euro 4 limit my GTD is supposed to achieve, that's nominally 4.8x the laboratory limit. For later vehicles, that were supposed to meet Euro 5 limit of 180mg/km, that multiplier is a little over 6.5x. Is that "reasonable" for real-world vs laboratory? I guess Volkswagen will be making the claim that these numbers are reasonable (in Australia, given Australian regulations), in which case the Australian delivered vehicles comply with the intent of the Australian Design Rules, and therefore nothing is wrong.

If they win this argument, then the class action(s) may fail.

The fact that they claimed ADR compliance (via the relevant Euro limits) using fraudulently obtained laboratory test results is a different issue, which is between Volkswagen and the Australian government.

[Cossor]

I went looking for the numbers again.

In my case, I believe my MY12 Mk6 GTD is expected to meet Euro 4 limits, which (for NOx) is 250mg/km. Euro 5 is 180mg/km, Euro 6 is 80mg/km. https://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2...#_Toc276984498

I guess Volkswagen will be making the claim that these numbers are reasonable (in Australia, give Australian regulations), in which case the Australian delivered vehicles comply with the intent of the Australian Design Rules, and therefore nothing is wrong.

If they win this argument, then the class action(s) may fail.

The fact that they claimed ADR compliance (via the relevant Euro limits) using fraudulently obtained laboratory test results is a different issue, which is between Volkswagen and the Australian government.

Regarding Passat
Possibly the intended software upgrade may just delete the 'cheat' section. It may even be that Passat upgrade from TDI-125 to TDI-130 already incorporates the improvements to help comply. In which case if software upgrade is fitted to TDI-125 then it may actually give a small boost in performance.
However regardless of the above, once VW has developed a satisfactory solution, PROVIDING they do this before the class action goes to court, Then I also think class action will fail, at least in some respects.
I agree, the issue of ADR compliance is separate can of worms.

[arcadelt]

Then again I'm not trying to meet the very latest Euro levels set in the USA, and each level is an order of magnitude harder to meet.

I'm not sure what you mean here. The US doesn't use the Euro standards. Am I missing something?