Volkswagen under investigation over illegal software that masks pollution

[ian]

John Cadogan he writes for all the motor magazines type his name into Google

[AdamD]

John Cadogan he writes for all the motor magazines type his name into Google

John Cadogan is a motoring journalist but he's by no means impartial or an expert on resale (beyond the next observer). He's long had a very vocal anti-Volkswagen attitude and has been openly criticised for said bias in his videos and written material.

Here's a recent article on his "quality" website: How Volkswagen Betrayed the World — Auto Expert by John Cadogan - save thousands on your next new car!

I wouldn't trust the rantings of this lunatic father than I could throw him. He's a proper Alan Jones of the motoring world - ready to appeal to readers' base instincts to get a headline.

[Ryeman]

Check out the background of Mazda marketing managers and you'll find ex motoring journos.....they seem, to me at least, to compete for the prize job........if you get my drift.
If VW DOESN'T have a reliability problem the this is the perfect time to get back some credibility and kudos by giving its vehicle owners an immediate increase in warranty - say 5 years and 160,000km.....how could a superior German car not be so covered, plus think of the servicing profit for the dealerships.
Don't hold yr breath!

[arcadelt]

I've posted the actual website from the university that did the tests that states 35 times eu5 which is 2-3 times worse than a truck ,yet we still have deniers trying to defend.

Where? Please post link again.

[AdamD]

Where? Please post link again.

I believe this may the link to which frantic is referring:
Diesel cars have high emissions in real traffic

As an aside, a message to everyone - please keep the discussion civil and the tone friendly. Do not use labels to objectify those with whom you disagree. Everyone's entitled to their opinion and each is equally valid. I will delete posts that inflame, criticise or belittle others' views.

[arcadelt]

I believe this may the link to which frantic is referring:
Diesel cars have high emissions in real traffic

AdamD, thank you for your input, but I have read both the summary and full report at that site, and it does NOT conclude that emissions are "35 times eu5 which is 2-3 times worse than a truck". In fact, while it mentions Euro 5 cars, it makes no specific conclusions about them at all, as the report is mainly concerned with Euro 6 and Euro VI vehicles. The reason I requested frantic provide the link again is because I am interested if perhaps he had posted something else earlier that I had missed.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion and each is equally valid. I will delete posts that inflame, criticise or belittle others' views.

I fully agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and welcome those as part of the richness of the discussion; but when facts are cited, we would all hope they were actually facts, otherwise they are just misleading.

[Transporter]

Simple maths, 35x 0.07 =2.45 Nox truck limit is 0.2 or with NMHC 2g! so a vw 2.0tdi is potentially putting out more Nox than a semi!

Hmm, unless it's tested on the road under the same test conditions as was the VW, your conclusion is incorrect.

[Transporter]

Your really grasping at straws now aren't you?

I don't need to.

I'm only surprised that you're and others still going on about it. Wouldn't it be smarter to wait for the official results or you really think that you can really accomplish anything here in the cyberspace?

[jrgti]

Post 731��
Simple maths, 35x 0.07 =2.45 Nox truck limit is 0.2 or with NMHC 2g! so a vw 2.0tdi is potentially putting out more Nox than a semi!

You bet that is simple math. Comparing it to a semi-trailer??? What is the average MPG for these in the US?? I think being 8 is generous and wouldn't be surprised if it is lower. How big is their fuel tank??? What about when it is pulling a full load????

The EPA has been providing the proportion measured and not the actual total output of NOx for a single fuel tank. VW violated the limits but the total output of NOx for these cars is nowhere near as bad if you take into consideration they achieve much better average mileage vs the BMW X5 which was the 3rd LVT tested and have smaller fuel tanks.
The measuring system is flawed as it should measure the amount of NOx generated per litre/100km.

[arcadelt]

frantic, I hope you are having fun, because I'm having a ball - and the bonus is that it's far better than Sudoku at keeping my old mind active.

As I have stated before, I am not defending VW, but hoping to hold those who are making wild, unreasonable or factually incorrect claims to account. Anyway, allow me to once again point out how some of your facts and logic are wrong.

To put it in perspective, VW sold around 50-65,000 cars a year into oz, so since 2008 when the motor Ecu scam was started your looking at over 350,000 cars. If 60% where diesel you have put more than double the total number of semi's Nox emmissions into our suburbs.

From news.com.au on 08 Oct 15:

There are 54,745 VW passenger cars, 17,256 VW vans and utes, 14,028 Audis and 5148 Skoda cars made from 2009 to 2015 that will be caught up in the recall.

That's about 91,000, and admittedly growing, but nowhere near 350,000 x 60% or 210,000.

I've posted the actual website from the university that did the tests that states 35 times eu5 which is 2-3 times worse than a truck ,yet we still have deniers trying to defend.

As you also quoted from the website you linked to back in Post #731:

Results of the study conducted by WVU’s Center for Alternative Fuels, Engines and Emissions, or CAFEE, found that nitrogen oxide emissions...from two Volkswagen light-duty diesel engines exceeded the EPA’s Tier 2-Bin 5 standard. One vehicle exceeded the standard by a factor of 15 to 35 and the other by a factor of 5 to 20.

Please note that was the "EPA’s Tier 2-Bin 5 standard", not Euro 5 standard: there is a difference.

This [your post at #731] was in response to another poster who put up a chart, with no links, 😉 claiming eu trucks had a limit of 2units but chart only showed a multiple of 20 times epa limit at 1.5units. Now with the university's own web page stating 35 times the link less chart is kind of pointless.

I was the one who posted that table at post #730 without a link, but before that at post #453 where I explained that it came from the actual CAFEE report that originally led to the breaking of the scandal (for reference, the table is on page 65). Of course, no one is expecting anyone to go back more than a few pages in a thread as long as this, so I apologise for not providing better context to the table at post #730. That said, I didn't know that your post at #731 was in response to that table, because you quoted Transporter's post at #726 and I missed the reference to the table because you incorrectly attributed its posting to Transporter.

What's really important about that table is the total values, which, as you say, only shows:

a multiple of 8 in the test results, which at 1.5 Gm is still within 30% of a semi limited to 2gm.

However, what you haven't realised (as stated on page 5 of the report) is:

The EPA Tier 2 emissions standard requires each LDV/LDT vehicle manufacturer to meet acorporate average NOx standard of 0.07g/mile (0.04 g/km) for the fleet of vehicles being sold fora given model year.

That's 0.04 g/km for US EPA Tier 2-Bin 5 standards, in comparison to 0.18 g/km for Euro 5 standards, so:

Simple maths

35 x 0.04 = 1.4, which I said before:

at no times do the Euro 5 VW NOx emissions go near the 2.0 g/km that is the Euro V standard.

There are, however, a few facts that you probably got right:

you have put more than double the total number of semi's Nox emmissions into our suburbs

I haven't researched it or done the maths, but this could be true merely due to the fact that there are many more cars on the road than truck and buses.

Also:

Now last time I checked there was one semi that drove down my street about 3 years ago, but there are several vw's going past hourly.

That's one fact I certainly can't argue with, as it's your street. I, unfortunately, live on a main road, so lots of big trucks and Volkswagens go past my place, and I can tell you which one I prefer: the Volkswagens.