Recall

[wai]

Thanks wai - I should have been clearer. There is no mandated emissions testing to keep existing cars licenced - unlike California, for example, where this is an annual requirement. Therefore, we can continue to use our cars in perpetuity without breaching any regulation.

Exactly, and this is why there might eventually be a mandatory recall, however this is only mandatory for the company that has supposedly breached any rule. This does not mean that vehicle owners have to get the recall installed.

The only thing checked under the legislation in NSW is CO at a particular engine speed via a probe up the exhaust pipe.

What I would really like to know is precisely what the "cheat" was.

There has been some absolute rubbish spoken on this. In the latest soap opera that is the debacle, some intellectual giant suggested that they were using GPS technology, where if the vehicle was recording speed and distance but the GPS system was not reporting any change in position, it would automatically switch into "cheat" mode!!!!!

I mean, this individual probably believes that the James Bond movies and the latest movie "The Martian" are actually documentaries!!!!!

Please VW, just let the truth out, otherwise all this is doing is more and more harm to what was supposed to be an asset. Some of the commentators are absolutely clueless. Yesterday it was reported that yet another manufacturer admitted cheating. The new manufacturer being SEAT, only the reporter was surprised to find that SEAT was part of VW!!!!!

[Carsten]

I read that the emissions controls kicked in when the engine was running but (1) there was no steering input and (2) there was no braking. I don't think the algorithm is straightforward. This seemed plausible because the car monitors your steering input to decide when you are showing signs of fatigue and obviously the system knows when braking occurs.

I am less interested in how the cheat works and more what they intend to do about it. If the upcoming B8 does not have this, could VW retrofit that system?

[wai]

(2) there was no braking.

This is the speculation.

If you look at the urban drive cycle which is shown in Table 2 on page 102, and then in Figure 1 on page 104 of ADR 79/03. you will see that there is braking involved in the first couple of minutes. Also, the test starts by the operator starting the car for the first time after a temperature soak, and this can only be done with the brake applied.

A lot of the claimed method of detecting is pure speculation, which is why I find it so amazing that VW accepted it. They are deep enough as it is, but they are doing nothing to get out of it. For some absurd reason, they think that by "finding the perpetrators and sacking them" they will get out of it with minimal damage.

They need to come clean with the logic that they are supposed to have used, as should every other car maker.

[Carsten]

This is the speculation.

If you look at the urban drive cycle which is shown in Table 2 on page 102, and then in Figure 1 on page 104 of ADR 79/03. you will see that there is braking involved in the first couple of minutes. Also, the test starts by the operator starting the car for the first time after a temperature soak, and this can only be done with the brake applied.

I am sure VW looked at the ADR, and US and other testing regulations and designed their algorithm to recognize the testing pattern - whatever that was.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how the algorithm works (and it does work very well) - the challenge for VW is now to meet the regulations legally and repair the public-relations damage. However disastrous this currently looks, they will be well aware that the public very quickly forget. Who now remembers Toyota, Honda, Ford and others who very recently had significant safety breaches that killed hundreds of people and resulted in $billions in fines? Pretty much no-one.

AFAIK the software in the VAG cars was developed by Bosch for testing purposes only and never intended for production cars. I fully support the removal of decision makers within VW who authorized the use of this software in production cars to blatantly sidestep emissions testing.

[wai]

Ultimately it doesn't matter how the algorithm works (and it does work very well) - the challenge for VW is now to meet the regulations legally and repair the public-relations damage.

The thing though is that in the strict reading of the regulations, there is no issue. When tested in accordance with the regulations, the vehicles pass. The regulations do not have an in-service emission test.

The problem is with the regulations that were developed in the era of carburettors and simple ignition control systems. Even the PC was not around when the regulations that everything is based on was first developed. These days, everything changes, and there would not be a single car maker in the world who would have engine mapping that remains unchanged. If any sensor detects a change in its inputs, the mapping of the engine will change. This is not something unique to VW.

Where it does become a problem for VW is if specific inputs intentionally disabled emission control systems with full knowledge that such disabling would result in an increase in emissions that are of the order reported. This cannot be established because no one knows exactly what has happened.

When you look at the definition of a defeat device, basically ANY system that changes mapping from that used in the test would qualify, and this means that there is not a single manufacturer that would be able to duck that one. Even if they claim that their mapping does not change, the mapping would be designed to produce a favourable result in the test, and never mind elsewhere. Engine management systems are dynamic and it would be close on impossible to cover every possible combination of inputs from the sensors.

But given that the vehicles in question have no DEF injection and so far no one is suggesting that there were bypass pipes for the DPF and catalytic converter, the only thing I can see is varying the fuel injection map, the amount of EGR, and when the wastegate opened. Even with the wastegate, I would expect it to connect back to the exhaust downstream of the turbo and before the first of the emission control devices.

We wait for VW to come clean.