Does your VAG handle? It depends...

[gavs]

Excellent work Greg as always, you have linked to a couple of my favourite articles there, especially regarding lowering on vehicles with Macpherson Strut/lower A arm suspensions.

[Martin]

The VW clearly has a healthy amount of built in understeer, hence harder rear bars don't make it nasty
I guess it depends how hard you go on the rear roll bar - most street bars are only 30% stiffer
But if the car is used on the street you want to be aware of how it behaves in the wet also...

Have a read of this (very old) road test for a laugh
(it's one reason why I'm cautious of KIA/Hyundai handling)
AutoSpeed - New Car Test - Piloting the 1999 Hyundai FX Coupe

My Mazda 3 has very good handling properties but in the wet I can lift the throttle, turn in and get the rear to slide around (it's really easy to stop/control)
I haven't tried the same thing in my Skoda Octavia as yet (MKV suspension)
I've installed harder front and rear roll bars and harder springs - it's certainly sitting flatter during hard cornering...

[Guy_H]

Exactly. The multi-link rear end makes a car much more forgiving than the torsion beam.

That said, I have been on a cruise in the hills where a MkV R32 dropped really low and with a massive rear ARB ended up off the road from snap lift off oversteer, so it is important not to over do things (I'm guessing the car felt really "pointy" in normal conditions).

I have had at least 4 customers write their cars off like this because of ill handling vehicles (majority of issue is whacking on a big rear sway bar) and one was seriously hurt. That is the main reason I don't wan't to see any of our forum members maimed or killed - because the car feels "great" around the street with a big rear bar.

The problem as Bennjamin describes & is reinforced by kaanage is that the "average" driver can't & won't be able to react to snap oversteer. Causing a big problem for themselves, let alone other road users that happen to be in the wrong place @ the wrong time.

[kaanage]

Some of the posts that weren't central to the topic but were of some relevance

Sadly, the following post no longer has active links to the pictures that help illustrate the points being made - still worth reading and trying to follow, through
A digression on geometry changes with suspension movement

Why VW reduced the precision of the Audi TT's handling (and the Golf equivalents)

Stock handling and the Elk test relevance!

[Water Boy]

Just had a good read. Hadnt heard of those Shine racing guys before but thanks heaps for the link.

[pologti18t]

I have had at least 4 customers write their cars off like this because of ill handling vehicles (majority of issue is whacking on a big rear sway bar) and one was seriously hurt. That is the main reason I don't wan't to see any of our forum members maimed or killed - because the car feels "great" around the street with a big rear bar.

I previously had a 2.2 Astra SRi with Koni Sports and a upgraded rear bar. Handled fabulously until I had to do an emergency swerve for a kangaroo. Snap oversteer - scariest few seconds of my life. Without the rear bar the car wouldn't have misbehaved.

[sambb]

Wondering if anyone has done the shine thing to a polo and can give me some advice. My car is a polo 9N3 Gti so the same principles will apply to my car. The thing I'm unsure about is their recommendations on spring rate. They recommend modest increases in spring rate but is this in relation to say a stock non-gti mk4 golf, or does that take in gti models too?
For example my car is already factory lowered 15mm with an increased spring rate and the lower control arms already sit level with the road compared to non-gti polo's. While i'll keep front ride height the same is it going to be going too stiff if I up spring rates from the already uprated factory setting?

The plan is to get the H&R cup kit (lowers 30mm all round) but run the weitec spring distance plates in the front struts to take 20mm back out - ie. net drop equals 30mm rear, 10mm front with increased spring rates all round. Just don't want it to be unecessarily stiff though!! Alternative is to throw in some koni sports on front stock springs and get some custom lower rear springs, that way keeping everything softer.

any advice welcome

[BenT]

I previously had a 2.2 Astra SRi with Koni Sports and a upgraded rear bar. Handled fabulously until I had to do an emergency swerve for a kangaroo. Snap oversteer - scariest few seconds of my life. Without the rear bar the car wouldn't have misbehaved.

I had the same car, stock, and the lift-off oversteer was easy to induce and tons of fun at a little round-a-bout on my way to work every day. Miss that car.


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