R36 standard (factory) ECU tune, where to obtain?

After 4-5 Months of driving with an aftermarket ECU tune I decided to go back to the standard tune.
I was getting easily 500-600km out of a tank with the ECU tune, depending on the amount of freeway driving. Prior to the ECU tune I was getting about 50km less on the std VW factory ECU. Now that the original tune (I hope...) has been reloaded by the tuner, I am getting about 350-450km out of a tank with the same driving style. This seems a bit on the low side and I am aware that the temperatures have dropped compared to summer. So I am wondering where I can obtain a standard factory tune to ensure that the mapping in the ECU is exactly as per factory settings.
I still have a cat-back system fitted, which I intend to retain and the car has done 15,000km.

Any forum members, as well as Melbourne VW dealers / service providers on the forum that are able to assist or have experienced a similar issue, please reply or pm.

Thanx in advance.

pardon my possible ignorance, but if you were getting better economy, and presumably better power, then why did you want to go back to the original tune? Does it not drive as smoothly?

Matthew

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Originally Posted by Caddyman

pardon my possible ignorance, but if you were getting better economy, and presumably better power, then why did you want to go back to the original tune? Does it not drive as smoothly?

Matthew

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Hi Matthew,
The car was slightly smoother and an almost unnoticable increase in performance. The minimal performance gain for the $$ was the main reason to go back to std. And I wasn't expecting the massive drop in fuel economy, hence my feeling that something has gone wrong in the process. I was expecting the car to go back to pre-tune economy.

Interesting topic here.

Sorry if i hijacked the thread. I hope R36 owners with an aftermarket tune can reply to this thread regarding their thoughts after they have their car tuned.

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Originally Posted by Rthirsty6

After 4-5 Months of driving with an aftermarket ECU tune I decided to go back to the standard tune.
I was getting easily 500-600km out of a tank with the ECU tune, depending on the amount of freeway driving. Prior to the ECU tune I was getting about 50km less on the std VW factory ECU. Now that the original tune (I hope...) has been reloaded by the tuner, I am getting about 350-450km out of a tank with the same driving style. This seems a bit on the low side and I am aware that the temperatures have dropped compared to summer. So I am wondering where I can obtain a standard factory tune to ensure that the mapping in the ECU is exactly as per factory settings.
I still have a cat-back system fitted, which I intend to retain and the car has done 15,000km.

Any forum members, as well as Melbourne VW dealers / service providers on the forum that are able to assist or have experienced a similar issue, please reply or pm.

Thanx in advance.

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Dealers won't touch the ECU, if you ask them to reload the tune you'll get a marker on your car and any engine/transmission claims will most likely be denied. Reflashing the ECU doesn't always go to plan and the dealer won't know what has been done to it before so they're not going to take a chance and risk ending up with a dead ECU.

It could take weeks for the stock tune to bed in, how long has it been so far? Ask them to check it out as they may have loaded the wrong one for your car.

that is soooo confusing... i gave up half way thru.

i fitted a tuning box add on module to the merc. performance was improved slightly and no noticeable fuel hit. but every month or so it would cause and engine management fault - easily reset but a pain. so ive left it off now and wont go back. waste of $1k.

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Originally Posted by Rthirsty6

After 4-5 Months of driving with an aftermarket ECU tune I decided to go back to the standard tune.
I was getting easily 500-600km out of a tank with the ECU tune, depending on the amount of freeway driving. Prior to the ECU tune I was getting about 50km less on the std VW factory ECU. Now that the original tune (I hope...) has been reloaded by the tuner, I am getting about 350-450km out of a tank with the same driving style. This seems a bit on the low side and I am aware that the temperatures have dropped compared to summer. So I am wondering where I can obtain a standard factory tune to ensure that the mapping in the ECU is exactly as per factory settings.
I still have a cat-back system fitted, which I intend to retain and the car has done 15,000km.

Any forum members, as well as Melbourne VW dealers / service providers on the forum that are able to assist or have experienced a similar issue, please reply or pm.

Thanx in advance.

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I asked my local APR dealer what mods available for R36 and was told that APR couldn't improve on the tuning.

To the OP... i think you just have to wait a day or 2 before the ECU get used to the new mapping... i got my stage 1 done today... and they said it takes a day or 2 to get it fully running. So i would presume that would be the case for the other way round.

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Originally Posted by den525

To the OP... i think you just have to wait a day or 2 before the ECU get used to the new mapping... i got my stage 1 done today... and they said it takes a day or 2 to get it fully running. So i would presume that would be the case for the other way round.

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I don't think it works that way. The tune should be working as soon as the car gets onto the road. It's not about wearing in or something in this case.

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Originally Posted by den525

To the OP... i think you just have to wait a day or 2 before the ECU get used to the new mapping... i got my stage 1 done today... and they said it takes a day or 2 to get it fully running. So i would presume that would be the case for the other way round.

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Nope, it has been about 4 weeks now and the fuel consumption is actually getting worse!
I am very hesitant to do anything at this stage until I have a clear understanding what the problem is as I don't want to make it worse than it already is....

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Originally Posted by sloutch

I don't think it works that way. The tune should be working as soon as the car gets onto the road. It's not about wearing in or something in this case.

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just replying what i was told, the guy said that ecu uses some sort of memory system.

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Originally Posted by Rthirsty6

Nope, it has been about 4 weeks now and the fuel consumption is actually getting worse!
I am very hesitant to do anything at this stage until I have a clear understanding what the problem is as I don't want to make it worse than it already is....

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oh, i didn't know that, probably should check it out, maybe go back whereever you got it tuned and ask them, afterall there is a warranty of some sort.

BTW which tune was it?

I can usually get the stock files for most ECU's if you get really stuck. If they are Australian specific its sometimes a bit more difficult. For most models there is more than one ECU hardware and software combo available eg MkV GTI ecu variants are over 40 FFS . As another example I suspect the Mk4 R32s here though may be only 1 or 2. Surely the tuner would have you cars original rom stored somewhere ?

I think we are doing an R36 soon but I've explained to the owner not to expect much. Many NA cars run maps that are very close to the limit with lots of knock correction capability allowing you to push the limit. You might get a couple of degrees of advance if the car was specced for 95 RON though. The other big gain is where they torque limit things to broaden the gap between models and I'm told(hope) this might be the case here. If we don't get something decent we won't charge much at all probably only dyno runs.

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Originally Posted by sloutch

I don't think it works that way. The tune should be working as soon as the car gets onto the road. It's not about wearing in or something in this case.

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When the car is flashed it has stock values, over time the car learns and adjusts. This is why you see people all the time carrying out on about how great their car felt after service and the dealer must have performed an update when all that occurred was the battery was disconnected.

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Originally Posted by parso_rex

... If we don't get something decent we won't charge much at all probably only dyno runs.

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Huh? So if you get a big gain you charge people more?

Wow! yeah that does sound dodgy!!!

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Originally Posted by Rocket36

Wow! yeah that does sound dodgy!!!

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Yeah heaps dodgy...Maybe I should have phrased that differently but think about it If I waste a whole day on the dyno after someone requests that we try to get some more power out of their car and lets say it doesn't produce anything worthwhile. Then what, I just say sorry mate my loss good bye. I wouldn't touch the car if that were the case

My costs are:
my time
dyno use=$ + facility$
ECU defintiion from SW provider
(HW&SW)/car

Or do you mean I charge $1000 regardless maybe throw in some excel generated dyno plots LOL

I mean that I would probably charge between $100 and $200 dollars

This might just be me, but I would think that any decent tuner (and I'm not saying you're not decent) would KNOW what sort of increases can be expected and advise customer of a range they can expect (estimating slightly low) and then say "it'll cost this much" and then charge them that.

Rather than waste a day, get nothing and charge nothing. Then have someone who has the same amount of time spent spend $1000. That sort of business model seems flawed.

And I've had three different cars tuned by two different tuners, so it's not like I'm talking out my arse. :D

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Originally Posted by Rocket36

This might just be me, but I would think that any decent tuner (and I'm not saying you're not decent) would KNOW what sort of increases can be expected and advise customer of a range they can expect (estimating slightly low) and then say "it'll cost this much" and then charge them that.

Rather than waste a day, get nothing and charge nothing. Then have someone who has the same amount of time spent spend $1000. That sort of business model seems flawed.

And I've had three different cars tuned by two different tuners, so it's not like I'm talking out my arse. :D

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Actually I do know what the result is likely to be, I have both power and torque figures BUT I haven't done one here to the point of dynoing things to make sure there is absolutely no doubt that there is something decent. I just like to test every tune myself that's all. There is a lot of BS around when it comes to power and torque gains, lots of pretty graphs and farcical back calculations etc etc, I just don't work like that.
A Turbo car is a different story you know you can always get a decent gains out of things where the hardware permits. If you gained say 30~40kW then you could safely say the tune will produce 30kW. In this case its closer to 10 atw give or take and on 98 RON too. I hope that makes a bit more sense.

[QUOTE=parso_rex;519131]I can usually get the stock files for most ECU's if you get really stuck. If they are Australian specific its sometimes a bit more difficult. For most models there is more than one ECU hardware and software combo available eg MkV GTI ecu variants are over 40 FFS . As another example I suspect the Mk4 R32s here though may be only 1 or 2. Surely the tuner would have you cars original rom stored somewhere ?
QUOTE]

Thank you, I will keep in mind.
The Tuner did re-install the original tune, however I suspect that he might have lost it and installed one from another (similar) car/engine, hence the high fuel consumption.
I might discuss my concerns with the tuner, but suspect I already know the answer; Just re-install the ECU tune..... That might indeed fix my fuel consumption, but still does not explain why the car is using so much fuel on std ECU compared to pre-tune. I like to understand things before making a decision as I don't want to dig an even deeper hole......
Yes, plenty to consider, that's why I thought I start this thread, to see other's opinions before I make up my mind.
It also provides others with a bit of insight and that ECU upgrades for the R36 are not always that straight forward/effective as sometimes promised. I was promised substantial gains by a person that is rightly not connected to this Tuner anymore.

Thanx.

Some funny comments in here...

Firstly, have you scanned the car with Vag-com? this should show you if there is a fault with the car...

When you are talking about aftermarket tunes, there are 2 varieties, off the shelf and custom.

With off the shelf, you know what to expect because its all been developed and installed in a few other identical vehicles previously.
With custom maps, the tuner may have an idea, but as its actually tuned to your vehicle, it may be better or worse than expected. If the car has done high kms and been babied, I would not expect to get the same results as a new vehicle with some light mods.

As for your OP, I'd take it back to your dealer and say it has recently started chewing petrol. If you had a tune that is 'invisible' as APR claim, then you'd expect the dealer to reflash it to see if that fixes the issue... Although this could just create more problems, all depends how well you play dumb and how quickly they want your problem fixed without investigating.

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Originally Posted by noone

As for your OP, I'd take it back to your dealer and say it has recently started chewing petrol. If you had a tune that is 'invisible' as APR claim, then you'd expect the dealer to reflash it to see if that fixes the issue... Although this could just create more problems, all depends how well you play dumb and how quickly they want your problem fixed without investigating.

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I wouldn't take it back to the dealer without doing some checking as you mentioned with Vagcom/VCDS or trying to get access to a dealer tool. Places to check are the flash counter and anything else that looks out of place which would flag this to the dealer as having been altered. It's unlikely they would reflash the ECU without a reason and if they dig around looking into the fuel consumption problem they will most likely find that it's been tampered with which will lead to warranty issues.

I think whether or not there is actually an issue depends on the type of driving you do and how you drive.

I do a whole heap of short stuff- mainly inner city and work is only a few km away. The only way I'd ever see 500km is on a long run and around town, it's often under 400. 14ish l/100km (and that's by the trip computer, so most likely optimistic) is typical for me and I don't often drive hard nor fast.

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Originally Posted by noone

Some funny comments in here...

Firstly, have you scanned the car with Vag-com? this should show you if there is a fault with the car...

When you are talking about aftermarket tunes, there are 2 varieties, off the shelf and custom.

With off the shelf, you know what to expect because its all been developed and installed in a few other identical vehicles previously.
With custom maps, the tuner may have an idea, but as its actually tuned to your vehicle, it may be better or worse than expected. If the car has done high kms and been babied, I would not expect to get the same results as a new vehicle with some light mods.

As for your OP, I'd take it back to your dealer and say it has recently started chewing petrol. If you had a tune that is 'invisible' as APR claim, then you'd expect the dealer to reflash it to see if that fixes the issue... Although this could just create more problems, all depends how well you play dumb and how quickly they want your problem fixed without investigating.

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Haven't checked the car with Vag-com yet. The tune I had was an off-the-shelf tune, and found out after that I was "over promised" improvements. My dilemma at the moment is that whatever I do I could make it worse, even if I got the Tuner to re-install the tune the fuel consumption could still be bad if I don't understand what's causing it first.

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Originally Posted by Maverick

I wouldn't take it back to the dealer without doing some checking as you mentioned with Vagcom/VCDS or trying to get access to a dealer tool. Places to check are the flash counter and anything else that looks out of place which would flag this to the dealer as having been altered. It's unlikely they would reflash the ECU without a reason and if they dig around looking into the fuel consumption problem they will most likely find that it's been tampered with which will lead to warranty issues.

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No, didn't plan taking it back for this reason and absolutely don't want to tell em!

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Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman

I think whether or not there is actually an issue depends on the type of driving you do and how you drive.

I do a whole heap of short stuff- mainly inner city and work is only a few km away. The only way I'd ever see 500km is on a long run and around town, it's often under 400. 14ish l/100km (and that's by the trip computer, so most likely optimistic) is typical for me and I don't often drive hard nor fast.

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I'm comparing against my own driving style, which hasn't changed that much. In fact, I'm actually driving less fast now then when the car was new and not yet done the ECU. I'm driving a fair bit more long distance now and with the tune I could easily get over 600km freeway driving (been to Mildura few times and easily got there on 1 tank with plenty km to spare). Maybe I should just re-install the tune purely for fuel consumption:pat:

Sorry for the hijack.

Speaking about VAG-COM, how and where can i purchase it locally and how much will that cost me?

i believe i have the same tune as you, i use alot less fuel and the car performs alot better with the tune......HOWEVER mine was done here in sydney and your in Melbourne.