125 TSI remap review - brief

Firstly, apologies for any rubbish I have seemingly posted. My brother often posts things for me! I've now changed the password so that fixes that issue.

Secondly, (hope I can do this here) I just want to acknowledge the service provided by Harding's Performance. Knowledgeable, professional and personable. I've been around performance shops for years (I was in the industry for many of them), but this is something else.

Anyway, as some of you may be aware (thanks bro for posting the pics!), I've had the Oettinger map loaded. I've only had it loaded for a week, so I can't report on too much yet. However, if you were thinking that a Tig might not quite have the performance that you were after, then trust me, this will change your mind.

More to come...

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Originally Posted by clip

Anyway, as some of you may be aware (thanks bro for posting the pics!), I've had the Oettinger map loaded. I've only had it loaded for a week, so I can't report on too much yet. However, if you were thinking that a Tig might not quite have the performance that you were after, then trust me, this will change your mind.

More to come...

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can't wait to hear more! :biggrin:

You really need to provide more feedback here clip ..... :)

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Originally Posted by Sharkie

You really need to provide more feedback here clip ..... :)

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Damn straight! :biggrin:

Well, not sure what I can say fellas. I guess it's definitely no GTi in the responsiveness stakes (not that I was expecting that given the Tig's weight). What it does do though is build speed very quickly in all but complete silence without you or your passenger being the slightest bit aware of actually how fast you're going in such a short space of time. And while it doesn't have the responsiveness of a GTi, it does have the rev hungry performance of the GTi once you get it moving. But give me another day or so and I'll report more on the remap. Just a few other things I want to try.

What I am truly amazed at is the driveabilty of this car at speed over average roads. I spent the weekend going out to friends property, and I can't rave enough about the whole package. Even with the 19" wheels, the car soaked up the worst of the bad roads I was on, and it's ability to stay completely planted, even at high cornering speeds on these roads, would put a most sedans to shame, let alone the rest of the SUV's. Combine this with absolutely effortless cruising at seemingly any speed (but always within limits!!!) even on these roads, and I have the fastest point to point car I think I've ever owned. I was impressed with the Tig around town and running down the highway, but it really showed it's true capabilities on the weekend. This is a car I could drive hard for long, long periods of time, enjoying every moment of it and getting out relaxed and satisfied. I've owned a lot of different new cars over the last 10 years or so (I generally change every 2 years), and the Tig impresses more than any of them.

BTW, even with some "spirited" running and town use, it is still returning what I think is an amazing 9.1l/100k. I was really expecting much worse after the weekend.

What size tyres are you running on the 19" rims? I'm thinking of maybe 20"s when I get one but was worried about losing too much ride quality. I think I worked out I would have to use 215/40/20"s.

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Originally Posted by Pullstarter

What size tyres are you running on the 19" rims? I'm thinking of maybe 20"s when I get one but was worried about losing too much ride quality. I think I worked out I would have to use 215/40/20"s.

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I'm running 245/40's

Can you get 215/40/20's?

I'm not convinced that the Maxxis 245/40's are a great setup. I'll be looking at some other options next- maybe the Bridgestone Potenza 225/40/19's? But then Mich do a Pilot Sport in that size too - big $$$ for both though.

Try this site if you want to size a rim/tyre combination that will keep your electronics within reasonable limits

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Cheers

Looks like 245/40/20 is the smallest width :( At 245 width you'd really need to go to a 35 series which is gonna get a bit hard IMO :( Hmm maybe i'll have to find 19"s :(

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Originally Posted by clip

I'm running 245/40's

Can you get 215/40/20's?

I'm not convinced that the Maxxis 245/40's are a great setup. I'll be looking at some other options next- maybe the Bridgestone Potenza 225/40/19's? But then Mich do a Pilot Sport in that size too - big $$$ for both though.

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Are your treads sticking out of the guards with that width?

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Originally Posted by Pullstarter

Are your treads sticking out of the guards with that width?

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No, they're fine - and it's kept it's very neutral steering (although a little oversteer can be coxed from it if you want).

haven't got a great pic of them, but this gives you some idea:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

Fills out the guards nicely, are they the standard wheel arch flares?

yep, all standard.

Looks excellent, been thinking I'll prolly drop mine 2" or so. When I get one that is :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by Pullstarter

Looks excellent, been thinking I'll prolly drop mine 2" or so. When I get one that is :biggrin:

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lol just buy a golf if you're gonna drop it :P

It'll still have 3ft more ground clearance than a GTI :biggrin:

Just remember these are my thoughts only, and I might not have any idea what I'm talking about as I've never owned a turbo engined car before (although I've driven 911's, GTi's, Renault 225's, WRX's etc).

First up, being tentative on the throttle, it was hard to notice any difference. The car still drives very conservatively with normal throttle openings (up to around a 1/3 of full pedal travel), and letting it build revs - even moving through +4000, the car just continues to accelerate pretty much as normal. No surge around the 3000rpm like the stock setup. It does pull harder, but nothing dramatic. This is the peculiar thing - at least to me anyway- as it seems to be more about throttle opening than revs. I can play with the pedal at 4000rpm for the first 1/3 of the pedal travel and it makes small difference. However, push your right foot a little harder and things start to happen. Push it even harder and your speed builds pretty much in line with your revs :rolllaugh:. It accelerates in an almost silent rush as you reach for the next gear only to find yourself reaching for another gear a few seconds later as you're approaching max revs again.

Overtaking performance is very much improved - e.g. at 100k/h in 6th it will pull away nice and easily, drop it back to 5th, and you'll knock off a few seconds, drop it back to 4th pushing your foot down, and you'll be into the "losing your license throw away the keys move over bubba zone", before you know it.

BUT, pushing the Tig hard through the twisties really highlights the engineering that has gone into this car. This is not a cheap car, even though it is priced that way. The increase in power really allows the opportunity to experience what it is capable of. While the Tig has very neutral steering, the increased power when cornering brings in a bit of over steer that is fine by me. I'm wondering now just what it is capable of. I'm thinking much more.

Anyway, I'm sure you guys get the idea, so I won't go on about it.

Pros:
1. transforms a solid performer into something special (not outrageous, but a genuinely satisfying drive)
2. acceleration - just have to push your foot down
3. overtaking and hill climbing performance - move over everyone.
4. economy - it's still telling me I'm averaging 9.2 even with the driving I've been doing (must be something wrong with the trip computer?). I'm certain the remap is improving the fuel economy on a trip.
5. still under-performs when using normal throttle openings and conservative rev limits - which makes it very non-threatening and very easy to drive quietly around town (and, I suspect, return very good fuel economy figures).

Cons:
1. still under-performs very easily when using normal throttle openings and rev limits - which makes it very non-threatening and very easy to drive quietly around town (and, I suspect, return very good fuel economy figures). Personally, I like an early throttle response. Even when you're right in the fat, if you don't push that right foot down relatively hard, it will just sit there. Once you do, all hell breaks loose as I've said. So I'm thinking this may be a design characteristic of this map. I can certainly see the advantages of it.

So:
Do I like it? - hell yes.
Is it worth the bucks? - for what it delivers, definitely! I mean, that little money for that increase in performance? It's a no-brainer.
Would I recommend others to do it? - you'd have to be seriously crazy not to do it - even if you're grandmother is going to drive it.

I am really interested in what APR will come up with. I think the platform that the Tig has been built on is capable of a lot more - both performance and handling. And, I would like to see what a Tig is capable of with a minimum of the usual expensive modifications.

Awesome write up Clipper :) I too am very eager to see what APR comes up with as the time I take delivery of my Tiggy should be very close to the APR chip release.

Keep us informed on your longer term impressions too :biggrin:

Will do.

Since posting this (amazing how fast the internet works!), I've since just got off the phone from a mate and his suggestion was that it might have more to do with the calibration of the accelerator pedal, rather than the map. I hadn't thought of this, but when he mentioned it, I remembered that the new Suzuki Grand Vitara's had a problem with their accelerator pedals going out of calibration. Not that I think the Tig is out, just that the particular characteristic that I talk about may be more to do with the calibration of the accelerator pedal than with the actual map? (even though I'm sure it's part of the same process in any case - just another control variable?).

That's entirely possible with all the sensor type thingies most cars have these days, TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) etc. Must admit I like the idea of the multiple settings on the APR chips, not taking anything away from the Oettinger though, sounds like a great setup.

The markets APR and Oettinger are aimed at are slightly different IMO.

Oettinger has better warranty and a slight more sedate image aimed at a particular demographic.

APR on the other hand has always been more aggresive in their remapping (when they don't code share with Oettinger:)) and in the GTIs has a characteristic "boost spike" early for a really aggresive feel.

Turbo cars though in general are peculiar in the way that they react to throttle openings (in comparison to NA cars). Having a boost guage fitted demonstrates this best. You could be doing 4000rmin at light throttle and the turbo would not be working at all. At full throttle at 4000rmin it would be a totaly different story. You learn to use this to best effect because when the turbo IS working your fuel consumption skyrockets.

Personally though, I'd wait for an APR remap.

clip, thanks for your thoughts and write up so far...I am REALLY interested how different it will be in the auto version...perhaps Guy or someone else has some input/experience to offer here...

will problably get the upgrade, even though the standard 125 with std wheels is no slouch:) But, as you say, the upgrade is a no-brainer, and I agree, even before having done it!

the higher torque (and associated improvement in economy) alone would be worth it, for improved drivability.

have you fitted an upgraded swaybar yet, clip? This will definitely help too.

I'm also keen to upgrade to 17" wheels or some such, not sure there's much available at present. With the std wheels (and upgraded Pirelli tyres) there's just a bit too much understeer/slippage when you hasten it through the bends:biggrin:

I'm guessing that the overall experience/drivability will take some time to sink in (considering that you didn't really have the standard version long enough to make a considered determination on the difference..:)

happy to be another guinea pig; although, what happened to me previously that the local dealer (read service section) took my chipped Golf for a 60km test drive (that's got to be at least an hour's driving) when it was in for a regular service...and no doubt thrashed the sh*t out of it...

I recently got a call from the dealer where I traded asking me "did I really take the chip out, because the car drives so well"... go figure

I'm with pullstarter in that I am keen to see what APR develops...only so I can "de-tune" Tigga before putting it in for service...:biggrin:

Tigga lives!

haven't got the way bar yet. But that is next on the list.

And, I'm waiting for one of you guys to be the guinea pig for the lowering kit. I'm really interested to see how that goes.

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Originally Posted by clip

haven't got the way bar yet. But that is next on the list.

And, I'm waiting for one of you guys to be the guinea pig for the lowering kit. I'm really interested to see how that goes.

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I have a feeling that guineau pig may well be me LOL. Well, depending on how fast the local dealer can get my Black Pearl 125 to me anyways :(

hi guys, I'm also waiting for my wifes Tiggy that is supposed to get here by the end of May. It's a track and field 125 6 speed manual, and I have already on my hands a set of H&R Springs and a set of 18 x 9 OZ Superleggera with BFG's KDW2 255/45R18. If all my calculations are correct and comparing to the R version, this should fit without the need of the fender flares hope so!

Hope you guys get to lower it first and comment on it. I will also be reflashing it to around the same as you guys.

Keep tuning mates!!!