Should I replace my business 2010 LWB manual T5 with a T6 ?

It's almost the end of the tax year, things have gone fairly well, and I can currently afford to replace my T5 with a T6, if I want to. It means I have to take a risk that the next 2 years will go well too (so I can pay it off)...and there are no guarantees of that...but they should.

For anyone who doesn't recognise my ramblings, I bought my 2010 T5 assuming it would be reliable and I could keep it forever. After 114,000km I've had a couple of issues, and now worry about what is going to happen next. I love the ride and the fuel economy and I've spent a bit on getting it just the way I need it. But I get worn down by my anti vw long time mechanic who keeps reminding me that if I want reliability and low maintenance costs, which I do, then I bought the wrong vehicle.

I've just booked the T5 in next week for an inspection by a local VW mechanic that has been recommended on this forum. Felt I needed an alternative view to the one I have been getting (as also recommended on here). Although he is probably biased just as much in the opposite way :)

On the surface it could appear that I would be crazy, given my history, to consider buying another Transporter. But it would be 6 years younger than my current one. Apparently the fuel economy is even better. And I think I can just transplant all my internal fitout and 4 x roof racks and towbar? My T5 unfortunately received a couple of accidents and major hail damage. So this would be a chance to start afresh.

I must confess, I am also looking at a petrol Hiace as an option too. I know the driving experience is poor. And the fuel economy much worse. But it is much cheaper. And the agricultural experience will more likely give me lower maintenance costs and less problems. And my main objective is to fund a van with my business, that I can then afford to keep until I am dead...say in 30 years time...unless nembutal intervenes :)

Thanks in advance for any input. I don't even mind being told not to "over think" things again :)

A tough one for sure, I'm currently sitting in a 2010 Multivan and have similar thoughts floating about in my mind, although I'm not looking for 30 years out of a vehicle.

Obviously if you keep it and something goes wrong you will kick yourself, but then if you buy a new one and something goes wrong you will also kick yourself and wonder what could have been.

For me there are a few factors.

Resale value
The longer you keep this one, the less you will get for it when you want to trade up.

Warranty
It's nice to know that problems would be covered, in theory... and there is the hope that nothing would be wrong with a new vehicle, but essentially you're just delaying the 5 years into your 30...

Benefits
What does the new one do that your current one doesn't? What extra features would you get?? Are they worth it?


There might be tax implications that make getting a new vehicle less of a burden which make it look more attractive... your personal circumstance will have to feed that info.


The alternative approach might be to work out the additional cost of buying a new vehicle and put that into a savings account/term deposit/offset account as a backup, of anything goes wrong you would have some cash put aside or when you decide it's time to upgrade you will have a nice deposit (AND will be used to paying that amount anyway).


Bottom line for me, the tax implications make it more attractive (although I would still cost me money) and the new model doesn't really offer much of anything over the current one. Given mine is well maintained and running well I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it continues to run well until I'm ready to upgrade to a newer model... maybe when all the kids are out of car seats (which is three more years give or take).

Thanks very much for taking the time to provide all that. We seem to be in similar positions.
I too would get the tax advantage. Plus the added bonus of my ex paying for almost as much again. And that's almost too good an offer to refuse :)

Would another benefit of the T6 - being not much more than a T5 facelift - be the benefit of getting an end of the line model with at least some of the earlier faults resolved? Or am I just dreaming. I don't know how to quantify that.

I forgot to add that this time I would definitely pay for the additional 2 years warranty. I was advised to last time and laughed at the sage :(

I am at your stage of 2010 T5 and considering the change too.Have you considered an iload ( Hyundai)? Better ride than the Toyota and most people seem to love them.Shame T6 doesnt come in petrol or I would get another...Yours should still be good till 200k though?
Mine is manual also,any trouble with your clutch or second gear change?

I had also thought about upgrading but lack of TSI petrol is a stumbling block , it seems we have been swamped with car manufacturers building diesels in many models but they have ignored the fact that some people like petrols . My work van which is 11 years old has been through some pretty hard work and bruises over the years , it was a $34000 van new and has been rock solid . Now it has had services done erratically over the years so no following of the book . But it has had the timing belt and water pump done every 100000 kays new clutch at 180000 kays new discs and rotors twice and some new shocks . Recently the cat was "modified and the flex pipe changed". So this poor little underpowered 2.0 litre engine has now 290000 kays under the belt and continues to be a reliable work horse and its PETROL approx. repair costs for the van over the ten years around $4000 . Wife's previous diesel powered T5 new 2004 has had a stack of problems engine/ gearbox / and many other problems and was $50000 new and its a diesel and only 130000 kays repair costs approx. $16000 plus . I would love to replace my wife's now current T5.1 with the 2.o diesel DSG with a T6 but see no real economic or physical logic as it would be almost a carbon copy of her current van .
My main concern is that in light of the diesel emission problem any VW diesels will stink at resale time [pardon the pun ] I am on your side with the driveability of the VW's over several others and I have driven several of them . Hi Ace an abomination on wheels , lousy ride and has been hit with an ugly stick repeatedly . Merc Vito not a lot better with some questionable reliability problems as well . Iload no comment havent driven one yet . I did look at some T6's on Cars Guide the other night and there are some bargains new with 10kmh on the clock were around the $42-$45 k mark but there were a few from late last year ex demos 1100 kays on clock for $33 -$35 k . I have been scathing of VW's over the years with large cost failures and stupid design flaws but alas we still keep buying them , To be honest if my first VW T4 with the clysedale hearted 2.5 engine was still in one piece , I would still be using it as my work van today it was unstoppable !! [except for the tilt tray truck I ran into the back off and slightly decapitated the RH front end guard / door and drive shaft ] VW make great manuals their auto's are what scare me , not enough local testing have seen many die from heat related problems . Last one for Stevan your problem could be related to the DMF that other piece of technology with possible risks . VW just had to put that one in place of the normal clutch assemblies and then watch when one lets go bye bye whole gearbox as it self destructs and punches holes into the gearbox housing as it tries to escape from inside . There are many owners who see 500000 kays from a diesel engine but its the bolted on stuff that could cost you . I would stick with what you have and save the money for later as suggested by The Hawk .

I had a Petrol HiAce at a company that I was at before going out on my own, that thing had a dringking problem. Gutless, uncomfortable seats, not a lot of space in the front and handled like crap especially with a side wind. When I went out on my own I got a 06 Vito in Turbo diesel which I find to be very good on fuel. Engine has more pull than is needed for a work van, seats are better and very roomy in the front, probably much like your T5.

For a work car I think it is a lot more important to get something that will do the job you need it to and be comfortable, who cares about resale value unless you are trading it every couple of years, even then I would rather be comfortable all day.

Main thing is getting something that is reliable and has a warranty, a business cant afford to have cars off the road as that will cost you in lost income, if your van is no longer covered by warranty then you can be out of pocket a lot more. And you said you are in the position to do it now, what happens if you stick with your T5 and in a years time something major happens and you are no longer in the position to get a new van..

Get it why you can just be smart about how much you borrow to do it.

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Originally Posted by stevan

Have you considered an iload ( Hyundai)? Better ride than the Toyota and most people seem to love them.

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I haven't had a real good look. But I think they are way too short for me. I can't have anything shorter that a LWB T5. I have read they are nice to drive. And is that a 5 year warranty and low cost lifetime servicing? But have also read they are not made to last and get tired quickly? And can have large repair bills eventually too...as possibly any common rail diesel can?

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Originally Posted by stevan

Yours should still be good till 200k though?

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Yes I should. And I have it booked in to be checked out by a VW mechanic with a good rep on here next week to confirm that. Problem I have is it's mostly depreciated now and everyone is advising me I should update now - with my current situation it's only 1 dollar in 3 out of my pocket - and I should still get a good resale on my near mint condition 1 owner T5 - and in 3 years I'll have a van that's 5-6 years younger than what I've got which should increase the chances I'll be able to keep it for that magic 25 years I'd like to.

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Originally Posted by stevan

Mine is manual also,any trouble with your clutch or second gear change?

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That is interesting. With second gear I can't say I have a problem, but it is the hardest gear to engage, especially when it's cold. I could see that often clunky gear change becoming a problem in the years to come. But that said, I've also experienced similar with other vehicle over the years and they gone by the way side for other reasons first.
But the clutch has for maybe 30k kms had that sometimes slipping feel when it's put under some pressure. It was getting quite bad until I recently changed the tyres and that had am immediate improvement. So I put it down to front tyre slippage because it's most noticeable when taking off on an incline. I've mentioned to my mechanic at each service and he's never had anything to say. I wouldn't be surprised if it became a clutch problem down the track. What Sunny says about the DMF could be my issue.

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Originally Posted by Sunny43.5

I would stick with what you have and save the money for later as suggested by The Hawk.

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That is what feels comfortable for me. But I've never been a business before the last 6 odd years and it seems the rules are different about what the best choice is to make. The most important thing for me this time, is to make sure I properly explore my options, rather than going on gut feel with no research, as I did with the T5. It may well have still been the best option, but I'll never know. And my poor decision making on such an important purchase still nags away at me.

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Originally Posted by AALocksmiths

I had a Petrol HiAce at a company that I was at before going out on my own, that thing had a drinking problem. Gutless, uncomfortable seats, not a lot of space in the front and handled like crap especially with a side wind.

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Yes those seem to be the prices you have to pay for long term reliability...I think? But there are so many of them consistently sold year on year for decades. How can that be if there are so bad? I drove one 5 years old for the first time last week. As I tried to get in like I would with the T5, my back hit the door jam, which caused my head to hit the sill, and I've still got the lump :)

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Originally Posted by AALocksmiths

For a work car I think it is a lot more important to get something that will do the job you need it to and be comfortable, who cares about resale value unless you are trading it every couple of years, even then I would rather be comfortable all day. Main thing is getting something that is reliable and has a warranty, a business cant afford to have cars off the road as that will cost you in lost income, if your van is no longer covered by warranty then you can be out of pocket a lot more. And you said you are in the position to do it now, what happens if you stick with your T5 and in a years time something major happens and you are no longer in the position to get a new van. Get it why you can just be smart about how much you borrow to do it.

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That's exactly it. I look like I am in a position now for a few years to get and pay off another new van (didn't think that would happen). But it's a small window, so if I am going to do it, it's probably got to be now. The comfort of the T5 is great but I am no longer doing many km's and may not be again, so that and the great fuel economy are now less important. That I can easily transfer all my stuff across from T5 to T6 is a large bonus. But what I really want to do is pay off my van now while I am getting reasonable money, and then hang onto it when I likely return to being a low income earner if not pensioner for 15 to 20 years. Which means I need it to be reliable and have low maintenance costs. That's where the T5 and T6 don't seem to stack up against the Hiace. I would really like a van that's like my previous 1995 Daihatsu Charade 3cyl, that was thrashed for 370,000kms, and never needed a repair. I get told that once you've got various T5 problems sorted they are done, but are they really? Can't the replacement part be just as likely to fail as the original? I find that very worrying.

My T5 2007 hit 280,000 km today. Last week the crank angle sensor failed and while fixing it I had the front engine mount replaced before it caused more noise/vibration when selecting reverse. It had the auto replaced during warranty in the early years and then a few years ago camshaft which was expensive. However it's still fantastic to drive and experiencing the last few rental vehicles from Budget of a Renault Trafic, Hiace, Renault Master and the larger Hiace (hi-roof lwb) have showed. Non of them drive as well.

I'm now finalising specs on a Vito Crew Cab or T6 Transporter with aftermarket seating, final test drive of both and a signature on the contract. One bonus is todays auto T6 with second sliding door and 4motion costs only slightly more then my T5 of 2007 vintage which doesn't have these options.

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Originally Posted by Tornado T5

I'm now finalising specs on a Vito Crew Cab or T6 Transporter...

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So you don't have any concerns about the reliability and cost of maintaining of the Vito?
Without having really looked into it I just had a general feeling they were worse than the Transporter.
Did you notice much difference driving the T6 from the T5?

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Originally Posted by aSimpleLife

So you don't have any concerns about the reliability and cost of maintaining of the Vito?
Without having really looked into it I just had a general feeling they were worse than the Transporter.
Did you notice much difference driving the T6 from the T5?

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Anything specific on the Vito (I'm looking at the Bluetec 119) you can help me with? I get the feeling the T6 is "tougher" then a Vito, initial observation is T6 fit is superior, it's built in Germany vs Spain (if that makes a difference?) I'm hoping my local dealer has a Tdi400 T6 to roadtest so haven't driven one yet. I'm more curious to see how the dsg goes in local streets, round abouts etc and reversing up against a wall where I need to stop very close, which I need to do everyday a few times over.

The Vito powertrain is smooth, offers a Crewcab in mid-wheel base only with a 2nd row 2 seat, single seat split, with forward folding or fully removable buckets, 2 sliding side doors as standard. Sadly this type of 2nd row seat layout is also available in a T6 but not here. And T6 has 4motion, no 4x4 Vito has been released yet but coming n Europe.

My dream van, the T6 body with Vito 119 powertrain and Crewcab seating, (or borrow Amarok powertrain/auto) VW 4motion and T6 dash layout from Multivan Executive.

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Originally Posted by Tornado T5

Anything specific on the Vito...

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No. But I've just got the impression from forum posts...and some mechanic anecdotes...but they are not reliable...but because I have not been interested I have not pursued these further...so nothing specific.
I really don't now enough to advise anyone on anything. My own confusion over T6 vs Hiace is evidence enough of that. Don't "overthink it" I'm told.
All the best with your choice.

My mate has had several Vito's over the last ten years he seems fairly happy but I will ask him if any reliability problems have occurred , he does regular road trips for his work to Sydney and back from Brissie several times a month so he should be able to shed some light for you .

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Originally Posted by Sunny43.5

My mate has had several Vito's over the last ten years he seems fairly happy but I will ask him if any reliability problems have occurred , he does regular road trips for his work to Sydney and back from Brissie several times a month so he should be able to shed some light for you .

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Look fowrad to some feedback.

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Originally Posted by aSimpleLife

No. But I've just got the impression from forum posts...and some mechanic anecdotes...but they are not reliable...but because I have not been interested I have not pursued these further...so nothing specific.
I really don't now enough to advise anyone on anything. My own confusion over T6 vs Hiace is evidence enough of that. Don't "overthink it" I'm told.
All the best with your choice.

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To be frank and i've now had 2 Hiaces as rentals from Budget with both virtually brand new, under 2000km and i wouldn't buy one at all unless money was the only consideration. The iload drove better and it had 70,000km on it, the engine is gutless and it's a 3.0L diesel while the safety afforded by no bonnet and very narrow cab speaks for itself. In fact search up on the brand new Proace Toyota will offer in Europe as a JV with Citroen and Puegot and you'll see the crap they offer here in comparison.

Just had a browse of the New Toyota not a bad looker I suppose we can thank the frogs for that one as after all its a shared platform from Citreon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Jumpy And I agree the crap offered here is awful , a friend has one of the later Hi Ace vans and without a load in the back it is constantly trying to do 180 degree spins on roundabouts , plus its like a dog constantly lifting one wheel off the ground at the first opportunity when cornering . Then add as was said above NO bonnet pretty scary view from the front seats , would be tempted to fit intrusion bars of some kind as I treasure my legs for walking .

Also thought I'd mention that I have decided to keep my 2010 T5 for probably at least another 5 years, or until things start going wrong. Paid for it to be inspected by a local VW mechanic recommended on these forums and it's amazing how refreshing it is to talk to someone who doesn't keep telling you what might go wrong with your vehicle and what a mistake you have made. That and the fact he said there was basically nothing wrong with it. I have accepted that I am likely to have higher servicing/repair costs but as long as it's a business expense that's a fair trade off for the comfort and fuel economy. But I will have to get rid of it before retirement though, where low running costs will be essential. So I'll be changing to this VW guy for servicing as was also recommended I do by someone else here...although it's going to reverberate a bit like a family breakdown :(
So thanks to all for the advice and suggestions.

I must also confess that I had what I felt was a very good deal waiting to be signed for a new 2016 LWB Petrol Manual Hiace for $33,000 drive away + $1,250 to take it to a 6 year warranty with capped price servicing for that time. I would be prepared to live with the comfort and safety issues (the poor fuel economy and filling up more often would be harder to swallow) for the long term reliability and lower servicing costs. But in the end I could not face the time I would spend getting all my stuff moved from one van to the other. And I couldn't be shagged getting mine rwc'd and sold (and the trade offer was woeful as expected). I would find it hard to get to the back of the van from inside the cabin because of the engine. And the internal width is 150mm less so I could not reuse my 2/1 rear seats. But the internal length was a bit longer while the external length is 500mm less which is an advantage for parking, even at my place. Also external height is a bit less so I could actually fit it in the garage. I also liked roof racks that fit in the gutter rather than the VW holes in the roof which I have had leak twice now and means I can't as easily take them off because of the sealing. I also could find no good news about Toyota dealers out here in the East and especially not from where I got the deal (not that I enjoyed my experience with the VW dealer 5 years ago). Another interesting thing is I could find no forums anywhere for late model Hiaces like the wonderful resource get here for Transporters :)
I did think about a T6 where the changeover would be easier and if there was a deal going I might have been convinced. But the LWB was $10,000 more than the Hiace. And of course my issues with long term servicing costs and repairs would not change.
Anyway, that's my confession. Some of it may be of interest to another some day.