Tuning / performance update

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Originally Posted by Pullstarter

I tend to agree Jimbo, not a lot above 6000rpm, even when going hard I tend to change around 5000rpm, seems to stay in the power band better that way.

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thanks, interested in your impression that changing at 5000rpm is better, I looked up the figs from APRs site to see how our impressions compared with the figures and to provide bit of a further record of the improvements for those considering. Looking at the power and Torque graph for APR stage 1:

TORQUE - there looks to be about 340Nm from 2000 rpm (assuming graph slope doesn't change much b/w 2500 and 2000 - graph doesn't go below 2500). This reflects to me the impression that from about 2000 it feels significantly stronger than stock and again unless there is a big fall off b/w 2500 and 1500 rpm, I expect that even down to 1500 rpm, Torque is at least at the old peak of 280Nm. This also reflects the impression that it feels pretty tractable right from 1500rpm:P. Torque climbs steadily from 2500 up 3300rpm at its peak of 402nm and then stays pretty flat until about 4800 (at peak power) where it starts to drop away more steeply, noting that it stays above pre upgrade peak of 280nm right thru to 6000rpm.

POWER climbs steeply all the way from 2500 to 4800rpm where it is at its peak of 189kW and then stays pretty flat thru to 6000rpm, only losing about 5-7% in that range:cool:.

From 6000 to 6500rpm though, power drops of more sharply losing a further 10% in 500revs down to 160kW and Torque drops off a further 20% to below 240Nm. So the drop off in both power and torque is significant from 6000rpm onwards and you also hit the rev limiter much beyond that - gut impression that there is limited value in taking it beyond 6000rpm appears correct. Likewise with power peaking just before 5000 can see why 5000 feels right. Nonetheless there does seem a reasonable basis to take it through to 6000, or 5500 at least.

With all this torque in this thread about exhaust systems, wish we could get one that would make our Tigs sound like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOYkj...eature=related
:bowdown:

In all seriousness, apart from some better gearing, 300 or so KW and ........... the Tig needs a nice note to go with all this go.

I wonder if we could hook up some speakers underneath the body, link it to a program that tracks the revs and plays the appropriate exhaust soundtrack:eek: Mind you dont laugh, car makers are working on sound tracks for electric cars - they're too quiet.

2 things .....

1. The APR figures & graphs are with the stock airbox. It is VERY restrictive and have a really convoluted airfeed. This is not good by any means for power at high revs when the turbo is sucking in huge volumes of air.

Changing the intake will allow the engine to breathe better throughout the range and ESPECIALLY at high revs.

I have very little drop off in power above 6000rmin with the Carbonio compared to the stock intake. There is an easy 5-10kw in there and it revs cleanly and powerfullly to the limiter ..... which I seem to bump into quite frequently .... :rolleyes: .... its expensive but worth every $$$ IMO.

2. The exhaust is way too quiet ..... the intake helps a bit with a really nice sound under load, but still too quiet as a whole. This actually has a fairly easy solution as a freer flowing rear muffler would liberate some decent noise .... but not add any power .... :rolleyes: .... in stainless you'd be looking at less than $300 at any decent exhaust shop to "fix" this.

A DP would also improve the sound and is the 1 I'd go for as soon as I see/find a viable solution.

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Originally Posted by Sharkie

I have very little drop off in power above 6000rmin with the Carbonio compared to the stock intake. There is an easy 5-10kw in there and it revs cleanly and powerfullly to the limiter ..... which I seem to bump into quite frequently .... :rolleyes: .... its expensive but worth every $$$ IMO.

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Sharkie expensive? - bumping up against the rev limiter often or the intake? Probably both.:duh:

You do any acceleration figs yet with your new toy?

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Originally Posted by jimbomort

Sharkie expensive? - bumping up against the rev limiter often or the intake? Probably both.:duh:

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Actually no harm in hitting the limiter, its just a software limit. Only expensive when it comes to fuel comsumption .... :rolleyes:

Intake is expensive, buts its a real carbonfibre ram feed with no turns from the grill to the MAF.

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Originally Posted by jimbomort

You do any acceleration figs yet with your new toy?

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Scheduled for this weekend .... :cool:

EDIT: some info I've picked up over the years

revlimits are typically set a few THOUSAND revs short of what the engine can reliably withstand. I've had a BMW M3 that I chipped and it raised the limit from 7300 to 8200 with no adverse effects over more than 50000 hard kms. Some Honda VTec engines have limits at 9000 and can reliably rev to 11000!!!! once chipped. Opel (Holden in Oz) built a 2.0 16V in 1990 that had a limit of 7700 and was known to run without failure on their (Opel factory) test benches at around 14000rmin!!!!

This engine especially was ahead of its time, 128kw/230NM from a NA engine in 1990 !!!!! No competitor had anything that could touch it at the time. VW's 2.0 16V struggled with 110kw/190NM ......

Good info guys keep it coming :) Will post up my dyno results after monday's run :D

I've been thinking about getting rid of the home made intake for the carbonio but not sure if there'd really be much difference?

Is the Carbonio the only option for helping out the air intake or are there other options?
And what sort of price range are we talking about?

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Originally Posted by Glennb

Is the Carbonio the only option for helping out the air intake or are there other options?
And what sort of price range are we talking about?

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I made my own, details here about halfway down the page;

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newf...t=29946&page=7

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Originally Posted by Sharkie

Actually no harm in hitting the limiter, its just a software limit.
revlimits are typically set a few THOUSAND revs short of what the engine can reliably withstand.

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thanks Sharkie for the info on rev limiters

back onto the torque, found the Tig will also happily idle in 4th gear!! So it will pull in 4th gear from idle:cool:, as long as your gentle in expectations up to 1400-1500rpm, it will do it without any complaint.

In fact when I dropped it into fourth with my foot off the accelerator, I was going a bit too slow and it picked up the extra speed itself! Cant say I've tested it on a lot of other cars, but know our previous car - a Sube outback, which was lighter, with a lower 4th and a 2.5l engine, would not have been happy.

it makes me wonder just how much torque is there even at idle?

The results are in!! 155.5kw and 307nm at the front wheels, very happy indeed!! Now Johan, we need some acceleration figures! :D

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/foru...ile00011-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pullstarter

The results are in!! 155.5kw and 307nm at the front wheels, very happy indeed!! Now Johan, we need some acceleration figures! :D

<a href="http://s1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/esciboi/?action=view&current=File0001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af214/esciboi/File0001.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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Was that with your modified intake?
Pretty decent figures either way.

Imagine the atw kw with the stock map :confused: