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Thread: RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?

  1. #11
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    While we're on the subject ...

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-img_20180130_230119-jpg

    Not dynaudio, but something exquisite I had laying around with some 3d printed adaptors that have survived thru 2 and a bit summers in a black car. Clearance to the magnet is roughly just enough !
    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-img_20180125_205726-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-img_20180127_012948-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-img_20180127_012734_1-jpg

    Scanspeak illuminator mid woofers (aluminium cone, not paper version) and tweeters, scanspeak discovery midrange. Got a set of 4.5" scanspeak revelator midranges that are probably a bit big without cutting any metal, and wouldn't work as well as the 3.5" disco's off-axis, but maybe one day....
    Last edited by NinetySix; 01-06-2020 at 08:08 AM.

  2. #12
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    w0w, that's some tiny clearance on the magnet there - does it rattle? May be worth a little foam on the back of the magnet.

    I like the 3D printed baffle adapters, cool idea. Yeah, I guess heat would be the enemy ... I wonder what the melting points etc would be.

    Once you've done prototyping the box, a basic carpeted backing plate across the box and covering most of the right-hand side would help protect all your components and hide the whole setup (assuming you move the DSP etc to that side). I'm curious about what the bottles are there for - are they acoustics related?

    How does the Mini-DSP hold up? I've heard mixed reviews and was looking at one originally - got persuaded that a Helix is the way to go, but as mentioned earlier, I really just want to split out the sub output from the amp input by frequency and timing...
    2018 Arteon R-Line - Black, Sunroof, Dynaudio, 20" Wheels, RacingLine: Stage 2 ECU+DSG|380mm BBK|Intercooler+Hoses|Oil Cooler|R600 Intake|Adjustable Front Droplinks|Dogbone Insert|Subframe Brace+Alignment Kit|Propshaft Alignment Kit, Milltek: Zirotec Downpipe, Harding: Front+Rear Sway Bars|Rear Droplinks, Other: OSRAM Dynamic Indicators, EvcX Throttle Controller, 034 (RED) Coil Packs, Various Carbon Bits
    2022 Tiguan Allspace R-Line, Grey - Sunroof, Harmon Kardon

  3. #13
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    BTW - I was lucky that although my R36 only had the standard Blaupunkt system, it had the Dynaudio wiring - got the amp + speakers for only $1500 from the wreckers. Here's the retrofit I did when I first bought he car in 2014: R36 Dynaudio Retrofit Guide . I used some DynaXorb pads behind the main drivers, not 100% convinced on the science they claim around geometry etc, but I think the soft rubber material provides good dampening.

    Here are some photos of the enclosure construction (original post: B6 R36 Passat - Dynaudio Retrofit)

    Internal volume/structure - before the raised lid went on:

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20140519_151659-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20140726_151925-jpg

    Construction of the raised lid:

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20151018_140058-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20151024_132332-jpg (tried using fabric for the original contour, but had to cut it away after it wrinkled)

    First layer of contoured lid - using core-mat (great rigid bulking layer with good acoustic properties):

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20151206_141414-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20160210_072232-jpgOriginal carbon fiber (before glossing up):

    I've just got back into it (been distracted with a couple of renovation projects over the years...) - sanded back the carbon fiber lid over the weekend and about to do a fresh micro-balloon (Q-Cel) fill to smooth out all the waviness.
    Last edited by nermal; 02-06-2020 at 09:02 AM.
    2018 Arteon R-Line - Black, Sunroof, Dynaudio, 20" Wheels, RacingLine: Stage 2 ECU+DSG|380mm BBK|Intercooler+Hoses|Oil Cooler|R600 Intake|Adjustable Front Droplinks|Dogbone Insert|Subframe Brace+Alignment Kit|Propshaft Alignment Kit, Milltek: Zirotec Downpipe, Harding: Front+Rear Sway Bars|Rear Droplinks, Other: OSRAM Dynamic Indicators, EvcX Throttle Controller, 034 (RED) Coil Packs, Various Carbon Bits
    2022 Tiguan Allspace R-Line, Grey - Sunroof, Harmon Kardon

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by nermal View Post
    w0w, that's some tiny clearance on the magnet there - does it rattle? May be worth a little foam on the back of the magnet.
    Although it looks like it's fouling, it just doesn't make any contact with the window reg clips, and it's shown in the worst case scenario, with the window all the way down, which is rare other than when sticking a parking ticket into a machine 😁 so I figure anything I might stick in there would ensure some kind of contact. I did something for a rain shield, can't remember what now! Might have been a foil tape visor, or part of an ice cream tub.

    I like the 3D printed baffle adapters, cool idea. Yeah, I guess heat would be the enemy ... I wonder what the melting points etc would be.
    I used PETG filament thru a 1.2mm nozzle, which is quite coarse but it tends to come out quite strong, plus I went over it with a hot air gun with a narrow nozzle and extra filament (basically a plastic welder, with filament for filler rod) to reinforce any joins (printed in 2 pieces, midrange enclosure a separate piece, about 0.4L I think) and just to get them as air tight as possible, and knock on wood it seems to have held up with no signs of failure. Pretty sure about 80 degrees is considered the maximum temperature for PETG printed parts, as that's the glass transition point, and I fully expected they would end up failing but it's just not the case. On a 40+ degree down in sunny Melbourne in direct sun light I measured the surface of the dash at just under 100degC, yet anywhere out of the sun below the dash was a chilly 56deg C, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a fair bit cooler under the door trims...

    Once you've done prototyping the box, a basic carpeted backing plate across the box and covering most of the right-hand side would help protect all your components and hide the whole setup (assuming you move the DSP etc to that side). I'm curious about what the bottles are there for - are they acoustics related?
    Lol, that's coolant and distilled water from when I did a radiator flush and fill, just incase there was an air pocket waiting to burp out. Probably not a great idea putting red coolant in a cordial bottle, but no kids so only have to worry about a car thief drinking it. As for getting it to look like a professional install, one day maybe, the 60+ hour working week (16 days straight so far ) makes it tricky to commit to.


    How does the Mini-DSP hold up? I've heard mixed reviews and was looking at one originally - got persuaded that a Helix is the way to go, but as mentioned earlier, I really just want to split out the sub output from the amp input by frequency and timing...
    I'm gonna have to declare a bit of a bias here, as I'm a bit of a minidsp fan boy 🤭 though I've heard much good things about helix gear. I had a c-dsp 6x8 for about 4 years in the Astra and then the Passat, never had any trouble with it, no noise issues despite the 2vrms output (very conservative compared to many flashy car audio brands if you ask me) and sold it on Facebook for $150 once I got the 8x12 DL. The Mrs car still has a 6x8 in it going strong.

    I see the early 8x12 (v1) had some issues with noise that minidsp acknowledged, redesigned the PCB even did something in the way of a recall I think (how's that for integrity!). Either way the current version (V2?) is fairly mature now and the specs on the hardware are really quite respectable in anybody's book. The remote is pretty basic tho, just 4 presets, volume knob/mute and some complex way of adjusting sub volume that i don't use. Any tuning or tinkering is thru a laptop, and I think that's a good thing, what are you gonna whip up a biquad filter on a remote while you're driving? 😆

    I only splashed out on the 8x12 when they added the DL on it, Dirac Live, read up on it if you're unfamiliar... Basically the only automatic tuning software that does an awesome job, it does a pretty good job of getting the frequency response to how you want it (tricky part is choosing what you want), absolutely nails the time delay settings and best of all, corrects the impulse response with some fairly clever software and proprietary magic that dirac don't like talking about much.

    Many high end DSPs have enough processing power and tuning options to do what dirac live does, but you need to know what you are doing and even for pros (and btw, not all pros know what they are doing!) it's not a 20 minute job by any means. Manual tuning can land you in a real OCD rabbit hole, and not one I was willing to ferret around in again - spent so many nights tinkering with the Astra, took so long to get something that was nice but many things not quite right. When I got the hardware in the Passat I basically just used the DSPs crossovers and a little TA and left it at that, and it wasn't too bad.

    So for me, it was dirac or nothing (except the untuned 6x8 ). There are alternatives to dirac, though I believe dirac is one of the more complete (and truely automatic) packages and the only one available in turn-key automotive hardware, and currently only from minidsp (could be wrong by now, and more will surely offer it eventually) for car use.

    I'm kinda used to it now, but it had a tune that sounded about 10 times better than I expected it to (and I expected plenty for the money!) And another 10 times better than anything I cobbled together myself, and it took about 20 minutes and all I had to do was give it a target frequency response and move the mic around the car when it told me to - priceless for the time poor. 'Nuff said.

    Fwiw, I heard that helix specifically ruled out offering dirac live as an option on their roadmap, could be bs tho. Really should put a TLDR on these posts, and that is: if you're ever in Melbourne, you're welcome to come see what your ears reckon 👍

  5. #15
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    Interesting... yeah, I was originally looking at a mini dsp - as I only need to split the sub signal out by frequency and timing... That was a while ago, so was probably while they were having the recall issues.

    So back to the original dilemma... a new Alpine head unit with 9" screen will do that (with frequency and timings), while the current amp does the basic staging - professionally tuned (?by Dynaudio themselves?) for my cabin. A new big screen with modern functionality is tempting.
    Last edited by nermal; 04-06-2020 at 03:33 PM.
    2018 Arteon R-Line - Black, Sunroof, Dynaudio, 20" Wheels, RacingLine: Stage 2 ECU+DSG|380mm BBK|Intercooler+Hoses|Oil Cooler|R600 Intake|Adjustable Front Droplinks|Dogbone Insert|Subframe Brace+Alignment Kit|Propshaft Alignment Kit, Milltek: Zirotec Downpipe, Harding: Front+Rear Sway Bars|Rear Droplinks, Other: OSRAM Dynamic Indicators, EvcX Throttle Controller, 034 (RED) Coil Packs, Various Carbon Bits
    2022 Tiguan Allspace R-Line, Grey - Sunroof, Harmon Kardon

  6. #16
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    Who ever did your 3D print can do it in ABS filament and ask them to do atleast 80% fill, will may be cost double and will take a bit longer but it will have a Lot more heat resistant and stronger. It will help prevent vibrations as well.

  7. #17
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    This is interesting... 11 inch Alpine unit, due out this month.

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-alpine-ilx-f411-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-alpine-11-inch-carplay-2020-800x533-jpg

    Has 4V preouts with 6-channel time correction: Alpine

    I wonder if it'd be possible to flush mount it with a custom adapter..

    CES 2020: Alpine and Pioneer Debut Largest-Ever CarPlay Receivers With Up to 11-Inch Hovering Displays - MacRumors
    2018 Arteon R-Line - Black, Sunroof, Dynaudio, 20" Wheels, RacingLine: Stage 2 ECU+DSG|380mm BBK|Intercooler+Hoses|Oil Cooler|R600 Intake|Adjustable Front Droplinks|Dogbone Insert|Subframe Brace+Alignment Kit|Propshaft Alignment Kit, Milltek: Zirotec Downpipe, Harding: Front+Rear Sway Bars|Rear Droplinks, Other: OSRAM Dynamic Indicators, EvcX Throttle Controller, 034 (RED) Coil Packs, Various Carbon Bits
    2022 Tiguan Allspace R-Line, Grey - Sunroof, Harmon Kardon

  8. #18
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    That looks a bit like an easily removable tablet to me, even if it isn't. Would be a shame for somebody to have a crack! I suppose lots of cars have what looks like a tablet sitting on the dash without too much unwanted attention.

    Any idea what the damage would be on it? I see Alpine have a reasonable looking 8" unit that looks like it integrates perfectly, for a rather unreasonable price of $2800 😳

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sn809 View Post
    Who ever did your 3D print can do it in ABS filament and ask them to do atleast 80% fill, will may be cost double and will take a bit longer but it will have a Lot more heat resistant and stronger. It will help prevent vibrations as well.
    I printed it myself. Pretty sure I did it at 100% infill, each side used about 3/4 of a roll each, so about $15 a side using factory seconds filament from a local manufacturer. Lower infill doesn't really save any time, and it was gonna use a lot of filament either way.

    I'm going to have to politely disagree about abs being superior, temperature resistance is about the only advantage it has over PETG, and not by a whole lot... And like I said, mine are holding up fine parked in the sun with a couple of 44-45 degree days the past few summers. If I had to make a new set I would probably use PLA/PLA+ which when heat treated ("annealing") becomes much tougher than freshly printed PLA, and can withstand far higher temperatures than ABS. But only if the part survives the heat treatment, shouldn't be an issue with big simple speaker adaptors, not so good for small complicated parts. PLA is so easy to work with, PETG is a little trickier but not too tricky, ABS is just a dog to work with, doesn't like to stick to the build surface, needs a heated enclosure for good results and it smells awful + the fumes are fatal for birds, and I got a few in the next room.

    There's some fairly scientific testing of the more popular filament types here: How to improve your 3D prints with annealing - Prusa Printers

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nermal View Post
    BTW - I was lucky that although my R36 only had the standard Blaupunkt system, it had the Dynaudio wiring - got the amp + speakers for only $1500 from the wreckers. Here's the retrofit I did when I first bought he car in 2014: R36 Dynaudio Retrofit Guide . I used some DynaXorb pads behind the main drivers, not 100% convinced on the science they claim around geometry etc, but I think the soft rubber material provides good dampening.

    Here are some photos of the enclosure construction (original post: B6 R36 Passat - Dynaudio Retrofit)

    Internal volume/structure - before the raised lid went on:

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20140519_151659-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20140726_151925-jpg

    Construction of the raised lid:

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20151018_140058-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20151024_132332-jpg (tried using fabric for the original contour, but had to cut it away after it wrinkled)

    First layer of contoured lid - using core-mat (great rigid bulking layer with good acoustic properties):

    RNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20151206_141414-jpgRNS510 + DSP or Aftermarket Android with DSP?-20160210_072232-jpgOriginal carbon fiber (before glossing up):

    I've just got back into it (been distracted with a couple of renovation projects over the years...) - sanded back the carbon fiber lid over the weekend and about to do a fresh micro-balloon (Q-Cel) fill to smooth out all the waviness.
    that's really top notch work there, and I remember reading that retrofit thread before I bought my Passat early 2018, i was shopping for something with AWD, reasonable performance and room for/factory option available of 3 way front speakers with the midrange close to the woofers, not up on the dash or requiring custom pillar pods. That thread basically sealed the deal for me 😎

    Hadn't realised you were still running a spare tyre under the box, makes the enclosure volume even more impressive!

    Correct me if I'm wrong but have you had that box in the boot for 5 years or so but not yet actually had it powered up and bumping away that whole time??? Dude! Even if you have to tap into the line out, or even into a speaker high level, or even (!) use a dodgy high-low converter to get it functional, it's almost certainly going to be an improvement. Use the amps crossover, fiddle with the phase switch if it helps, or even reverse the wiring polarity to the sub, you won't damage anything and at least you'll have the sub "run in" and loosened up by the time you look at whatever the next step might be.

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