Various question about mk2 upgrades and engine conversion

[Jeats]

Hi,

I been lurking and ready for quite some time now, and I am considering doing my own project car as a daily drive between Bathurst and Orange 50km highway and about 10km urban. I guess the reason I have chosen the Golf mk2 to be the object of my affections is that for some strange reason I just like the look of it, plus it is small and lightweight.

As I am not the most mechanically minded, I guess the point of this thread is a realism check. I know I have a ton of different questions and you're all welcome to help/flame/PM me For somethings I am willing to do it myself, but for others I would have to take it my local mechanic (Windsors Automotive)

1. Am I being crazy in considering this with a Golf mk2
2. What are the actual running cost like for a mk2
3. How difficult is it to get spares for a mk2
4. I am finding it fairly difficult to get an accurate ball park on the pricing of the various components that I will mention below.
5. What insurance company do you generally use, and what are your ball park premium and excess

The car will be a Golf Mk2 and I was hoping to swap the engine out of it and put something in with more poke.

These are the engines that I considering:
Golf Mk3 2.0L I4 16v (ABF)
Golf Mk3 2.8L VR6 (AAA)
Golf Mk4 1.8L I4 20v Turbo(AUQ/AWP)

I am just wondering how common they are in Australia, and generally what the cost of these engines are, and the cost of getting a mechanic to do the engine conversion is?

Which engines would require the car to get engineered and what are the rough costs of going through this process?

Also as far as reliability are the ABF or the vr6 engine better options, or will a properly swapped mk4 turbo be fine.

Further more with the turbo and vr6 engine would I also have to budget for a uprated clutch and manual gearbox.

What are the various options for upgrading the brakes? I have seen many forum threads on doing this with mk3 vr6 brakes.

What are the general recommendations for the suspension of a Mk2, is it adequate in stock form, or would it require an upgrade to deal with additional power and weight

I am right now assuming that my projected upgrade pathway will be brakes, suspension, and then engine swap/conversion. Of course this subject to change with feedback

[ryana89]

Here's some question I asked before buying my MK2 GTI
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f40/...ons-44683.html

1. No your not crazy, when you own 3 + VW's, then your coming close to crazy.
2. Running costs (fuel use) are similar to other car's or the same age and size (ie a Corolla), however finding parts is where it can be a bit more expensive.
3. Parts are still attainable, but you'll have to get creative trying to source them. I buy alot of stuff online, but only because I simply can't afford buying local and from specialists.
4. Ehhh, I won't quote you with figure's I dont know.
5. Im with Just Cars car insurance, $300 per year for Third Party fire/theft.

5 door MK2's arn't 'too' rare yet, but they're certainly not a common car, 3 door MK2's are quite rare is Aus (less than 5 here????)

A 16v ABF always seems to be the go with MK2's, easy to put in and make's good power, I won't comment on the others but can tell you it is harder to put a VR6 or 20VT in.

What is your budget?
A MK2 will set you back 4 - $5000 in decent condition.

[ozvino]

R.e mk2 being rare, it Depends what you mean by rare. Private imports aside, we only got the big bumper model MK2's in Australia, back in the early 90's when vw in oz was still managed via an agent, not vw itself. Hard to get an exact number but general thought seems to be between 250 and 300 landing in oz. They never sold well, at the time they were retailing for well over $35k when ss commodores cost less and the DM was high. Take out natural attrition, break downs, crashes, etc. I'm guessing we are looking at well under 200 on the road these days of the official imports. FYI my MK2 was an 11/90 build, late 91 compliance/import and first reg in Feb 92. Cars took a little longer to ride the boat and get onto the road in those days.....

Pretty rare if you ask me.....oh, and if anyone has better data or figures please step in

Dave

[walshydub]

If you want a MK2 my best advice would be just go out & buy one. Running costs are low; small, light car with a small engine. Insurance is cheap. Parts are relatively cheap if a little hard to source. Even the newest MK2's are 20 years old so you'll have to put up with all the issues that come with running an old car.

Upgrading/modding as with any car is all about how much money you've got too spend.
As for engine choices;
2.0L I4 16v (ABF) - Perfect engine for a MK2 as it's light & powerful (150bhp) and easy to tune. Hard to get hold of though. An option with this is to find a complete Seat Ibiza Cupra & transfer all the running gear over including brakes & wider rear beam.
2.8L VR6 (AAA) - Heavier engine than the ABF with not much more power (190bhp) but sounds great, pulls like a train & is a properly cool conversion. Same can be done as above just transfer the running gear over.
1.8L I4 20v Turbo(AUQ/AWP) - The ultimate conversion for power/weight/tune-ability as you can pretty much get any amount of power from them. Biggest issue is that there's a lot of custom work needed and would be more costly.

At the end of the day the MK2 is one of the best cars for modding as there are so many options available. Just ask yourself what you want from the car and build it to suit.

[Jarred]

All of those engine swaps will cost you big bucks.

If you want a realistic quote, I would call Golf Loon, as he's the one that's done alot of these swaps and is one of the few people who can acurately price something up for you.


I wouldn't do any of these conversions without a complete donor. So many things, both big and important or smaller fiddly and inexpensive that you'll need.
ABF would be great, but have fun finding a complete donor. If you do, don't forget to change the final drive of the gearbox as they're notoriosly long for the 2l NA motor. (unless you have turbo plans in mind)

VR6 is a blast, and finding a complete donor should be alot easier than an ABF donor. Fitting time/difficult would be roughly the same for both cars I'd imagine. As you'd want to upgrade everything gearbox/brakes/subframe from a donor vehicle, as they will be a nice upgrade from the mk 2 stuff. This will have plenty of get up and go, and VR6's are really good on the trips.

1.8T might be an ideal swap, but it'll also require the most work because the donor's are mk 4 based, which means both wiring and physically fitting will be more difficult (you'd probably use mk 3 subframe/gearbox for this sort of swap, although not nessecary)

Swapping between mk 2 and mk 3 based cars reasonably simple as they're the 'same' chassis etc, so alot of the later parts will bolts straight in etc. (maybe minor modifications needed)

Doing any one of these swaps is a big committment, in either time if you DIY it, or bucks if you pay someone to do it. It'd would probably be cheaper to buy a mk 2 that already has one of these swaps in it. (I can think of about 6 mk 2's off the top of my head that have either one of these swaps done)

I can't comment on engineering requirements, but I'd imagine all bar maybe the ABF would need engineering, although you could be sneaky and just rego the car first of something. However, I wouldn't nessecarily recommend it!


Having said all that. I think' it's probably best to get a later model 2L from a mk 3, doing some basic mods to it (cam, intake, exhaust) get some mk 3 brakes and a decent cup kit, and you'll be sorted. If anything the thing you'll want to do most, is modify the geabox for better ratios on the hwy. (ie change 5th gear for a longer ratio one)

Hope this helps some. Any questions, fire away!

... when you own 3 + VW's, then your coming close to crazy.

What are you trying say about me...

[Golf Loon]

Jarrad speaks the truth and has done a Mk2 VR6 so he should know.

Expect to pay a mechanic loads, its fiddy, time consuming and difficult without knowledge of watercooled VWs.
If you can do it yourself, get into it, but expect to spend up big.

Mk3 chassis is so muh better than Mk2 and stuff like airbags, power steer and ac that is not an afterthought are pretty nice.
Mk3s are cheaper than Mk2s and more plentiful and reliable, SEATs are also good cheap car,light shells and loads of engines are allowed.

If you cant do it yourself, just buy one of the conversions floating about. They cost more than a standard car and some are better than others, but all the hard work is done.

I personally reckon a high revving 8v Mk2 is the most fun you can have with your pants on. Or an Ibiza GTI, for out of the box fun.
All the other engines detract from its handling and hot hatch characteristics.

ABF is rare and gearbox is a slug. Wiring loom will plug into a Mk2 though.

VR6s are cheap, but heavy in a Mk2.
William wants to sell his VR6 Ibiza GTI if you fancy a finished one.

20VT, expect to pay conservatively $10k for parts and labour.

I have just finished a white 2 door VR6 which will be for sale soon. Will look like factory and be registered as a VR6 with matching numbers.
RTA is fine as the Mk3s came with a 2.8, so no engineering.

GL with what you decide.

[russ83]

1.8L I4 20v Turbo(AUQ/AWP) - The ultimate conversion for power/weight/tune-ability as you can pretty much get any amount of power from them. Biggest issue is that there's a lot of custom work needed and would be more costly.

I found two listing for the Mk4 Golf GTI on wikipedia:
1.8 I4 20v Turbo 110kW (AGU/ARZ/ARX/AUM)
1.8 I4 20v Turbo 132kW (AUQ/AWP)

Which one is the version that was Australian delivered?

[ryana89]

What are you trying say about me...

That your mad or you're living the dream.
Hence why your selling the Cab, only to buy another MK1
hehe

[Jeats]

Hmm plenty of food for thought now. Just have to wait on a few other factors before I decide to either commit or start hunting for a pre-done conversion.

[RedMk2Gti]

I found two listing for the Mk4 Golf GTI on wikipedia:
1.8 I4 20v Turbo 110kW (AGU/ARZ/ARX/AUM)
1.8 I4 20v Turbo 132kW (AUQ/AWP)

Which one is the version that was Australian delivered?

We poor OZ guys only have the low spec AGU Mk4 GTI