It is unlikely, since the CR injectors and their wiring aren't surrounded by hot and dirty engine oil, but for confirmation of that, you have to wait little bit longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaanage
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It is unlikely, since the CR injectors and their wiring aren't surrounded by hot and dirty engine oil, but for confirmation of that, you have to wait little bit longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaanage
Mines been missing a bit every now and then, it has also on occasions been very jerky when I actually switch the engine off (feels a little bit like it's running on) it did this the other day and has been OK since. All this talk of these injectors failing is making me wonder if this is what happened to mine when I first took delivery in 2008, I made mention of what happened in an earlier post and put it down to a cold engine DPF Regen, just wondering now if it could have been an injector issue. Mine is out of warranty in September this year, I think the extended new car warranty will be a definite consideration as it would more than pay for itself in the event of injector failure. I totally agree with others that there should be a recall especially when engine failure in traffic could be life threatening. I'd be interested to hear comments from others as to what symptoms they had experienced prior to their injectors failing.
My vote Russ is oil sludge gumming up your flap mechanism whose job it is to stop airflow for a smoother engine stop. That same sludge causes hesitation problems when the nearby EGR valve can't operate correctly, especially at speed when you plant it.
Have you ever cleaned it out mate?
Hey Greg, it hasn't had any issue with hesitation when I plant it, it still pins you to the seat on acceleration and is very responsive at speed when you put your foot down. Other than checking oil and fluids I haven't laid a spanner on the engine, I took one look under the bonnet of this beasty and decided I'd leave it alone, I still like to get adventurous under the bed sheets but not under the bonnet of a car (not the late model ones at least) Is this something the dealer would know about and fix under warranty or will I have to get my hands dirty? I'm guessing there is already a thread on it here somewhere ? The part that pi$$es me off is that I bought a diesel for reliability and although it hasn't let me down yet (fingers crossed) it would appear that there is a strong possibility it's going to at some stage, whether it be injectors, DPF or some other glitch. I can't imagine not having this car as I love it, but it's annoying to think that VW must be aware of these issues and does nothing about it until people start complaining :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Roles
If you look under the car at the 2 hoses attached to the intercooler, they are most likely wet from the oil and you may even see the oil drop at the connection. It's like that one every Golf TDI I see and our MK5 in no exemption. Throttle body needs to be cleaned otherwise it will cost much more when the flap fails.
Sad news everyone.
My GT Sport failed last Friday. It had been stuttering here and there in the weeks leading up to it.
The dealer just told me that they are replacing all four injectors.
The odometer is 100,256 so my extended warranty is kicking in. SO happy I bought it.
Does anyone know if they are putting the same old injectors that are prone to fail in there if there is a revised version that's better?
Will post again when I know more.
I spoke to someone today who has a Passat 125kW TDi and he had 2 injectors fail and then replaced a few weeks ago and then the other 2 injectors fail and replaced this week. I told him to make sure the loom was replaced along with the injectors and he was told that they were.
He also asked why all 4 injectors didn't get replaced with the initial failures and he was told that his dealer tried but the company which underwrites the extended VW warranty only authorised the replacement of the failed injectors.
Am heavily researching this and will post good things I come across. At least this site suggests that the replaced injectors and loom are different, upgraded models. A fair bit cheaper in the UK too.
UKpassats.co.uk • View topic - 2.0 TDI Injector Upgrade
My 2006 Passat 103kw TDI DSG wagon failed last week, March 2011. It was purchased new March 2007 in Morwell Australia. Its just 4 years old, in immaculate condition with 150,500km on the clock. It has been fully serviced by VW, on time every time.
Problems started months ago with a stutter or misfire at very low speed. This was minor and I was about to report it with the 150,000km service.
Engine just stopped when it had been cruising at 100 kph for about 15 minutes. An engine fault alarm was displayed and glow plug light flashed continuously. Turned ignition off and restarted. Engine started with no alarms and drove for further 45 minutes. Engine was turned off and would not start again. Contacted VW and car was towed away. It was already booked in for its service at local Morwell VW dealer.
Morwell service guy contacted VW and negotiated 70% warranty 30% owner cost split for repair covering labour and materials but exclude towing cost. This seems fair given age and km’s travelled plus outside of warranty. However my expectation is that injectors should last for life of the car say 600,000 km. I note that injector are not listed as a service item in the first 300,000 km
Costs of repair including GST totaled $4,579. This was made up of Labour of $352 and Materials of $4,227. Materials were 4 injectors, 1 harness and 8 head bolts. Of this my 30% share cost $1,374 plus towing cost.
In summary things sometimes go wrong in the real world. VW did come to the party with repair cost. It also cost me and having paid once I don’t want to be hit again by accelerated depreciation when I come to sell the car. VW therefore need to solve this before it damages its reputation.
Thanks to all for the information on this site. Don61.
I've found the guys in the UK are thinking it is the loom rather than the injector itself that shorts...but seems no-one is still sure what is going on. They are having the same sort of failures we are, cars dropping left and right.
Have a few leads on refurbishers, but still awaiting an actual email response!! I'm hanging onto this like a pit bull - mainly because as of April I have no more warranty!!
Bloody hell I hope mine doesnt **** itself. Counting on you to keep us informed ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Roles
My aim is to get an answer on refurbishment of injectors from the UK. If this is indeed really the case, then the problem isn't quite so scary. Most TDI's will be towards or into extended warranty now, and that only gives you a year or two more, so we need a solution to this problem. If this is indeed a possibility I will look into the loom on my own car, and investigate the possibility of a silicon insulated upgrade. I'm not venturing in there until there is a backup plan in place, no sense tempting fate!
If there's anything the rest of us can do who haven't failed yet to get any useful data/observations, be sure to let us know!
The size of it continues to grow...
Anyone else with this problem on 2006 2.0 TDi? Injectors...
on the upside post #27 does say that Audi DO replace the failed injectors with an upgraded type! Post #31 says a different part number for the upgraded injector.
The Seat guys in the UK have their governments vehicle safety body on the case. Here's hoping some sort of response can be forced:
sticky VAG Injectors VOSA LINK - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum
I have gotten involved with several UK forums and they are starting to work together on their combined VOSA action. I don't think we have anyone to complain to over here beyond the papers / mags? I am going hunting on the Aussie sites next.....power in numbers!
VAG 170 PS Diesel Injector Failures - VOSA action - BRISKODA.net - The Skoda Forum and Community
VRS TDI problems - BRISKODA.net - Page 2 - The Skoda Forum and Community
These two threads are very interesting reading, seems you can get a loom for $83 pounds, and an injector for $380 odd, FAR cheaper than here.
Also reading this problem affects the 3.0 Audi TDI as well, seems all the high power PD pizeo injectors were Siemens, and flawed.
In case anyone can read Romanian - here's their VW forums failure thread.....
Injectoare PD 2.0TDI distruse - vwForum.ro - Page 54
Hm, I think that so far there is no one who is too much out of pocket when the injectors failed. At least in our forum and if there would be someone, cold you please direct him to post his details in this thread: http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f28/...tml#post624276
IMO, as long as the VW fixes their injectors on the cars that are not too old (up to 160,000km or 8 years) when they fail, it's not much to complain about.:?
"The newest" technology could also mean "unproven" and lets be honest the manufacturers aren't only the one to blame for the components failures, they're pushed by the environmental laws to reduce the emissions to ridiculous levels, which means to come with the new technology that is not always reliable or has the problems at the beginning.
:)
I understand mate, but I believe your Toureg may have these injectors too. Is it Siemens or Bosch ECU?
My gripe is the safety issue, read some of the tales from the UK. I don't expect free injectors, but it sucks people are expected to pay even a percentage for non serviceable parts that fail before a reasonable engine lifetime. It's not like it's rare, or only happening beyond 200k.
Touareg V6 TDI is CR.
...with pizeo injectors I believe! It's the main thing stopping me from upgrading, but hopefully they are Bosch where you can get injector parts over Siemens where you can't. I'm sure they are upgraded, but I am still wary of pizeo technology!
I know what you mean. For the similar reasons I don't want to downgrade my T5 to the new T5 4 cyl twin turbo, because so far I didn't have any real failures. The new is not always upgrade to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Roles
Hopefully your injectors won't brake down. :)
Greg, I thought you said that the CR injectors were OK, even if they use Piezo-Electric actuation, because the injector and loom aren't immersed in engine oil, which the PD injectors need to be.
Mark my words I'll be "that guy" when/if my injectors go - if my track record of getting things replaced under warranty are anything to go by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transporter
Good point mate, but oil seems to be hardening the plastic insulation on the loom ( as you expect from long term oil immersion ) whereas the Pizeo component insulation seems to be more an internal design flaw. The parts theorised to fail thus far are totally sealed within insulation, and it would appear oil has no role in the actual injector failure from current facts available.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaanage
I'd think the new CR has better injectors, and the fact they have gone back to Bosh ( with all the spares ) is a good move, and that combined with a second generation DPF makes for a much improved diesel experience, but I'm still not sold on Pizeo technology until the failure mode is revealed.
From yet another thread full of failure, some hard facts at last!!!
A3 TDI PD injector loom issues - Audi Mag | VAGOC.co.uk
NEW improved loom 03G971033L @£82.28
injector 03G130073TX @£556
Old part numbers, just so you can cross reference, this info came from Audi Hatfield.
loom 03G971033D
injector 03G130073MX
The old loom: Part number suffix 'D' dropped on 01/04/2008 and changed to suffx 'L' according to ETKA.
I'll have to check my invoice from my injectors and see if the part numbers match.
So if there's an improved loom out there why doesn't VW just do a recall to have them replaced and avoid any potential future issues? Surely the recent reported problems is hurting their reliability reputation?
I deal with recalls on a daily basis, but sadly, until there's a serious injury or the ACCC gets wind of the seriousness of the issue (hint) it's unlikely that a recall will be voluntarily be conducted by vw.Quote:
Originally Posted by poyta
A recall wil hurt their rep way more than not conducting one... don't forget it hurts their bottom line even more, they are a business after all.
I've read most of this thread, but haven't seen the answer to this: do the TDI common rail motors have the same injectors (Siemens) that were giving trouble and if so do they still give trouble?
Some previous posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaanage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Roles
I'd say that, at this stage, common rail is fine. But so too, it took some time for the PD Pizeo injection problem to surface.....
In my opinion, at this stage, fuel quality is the biggest problem facing common rail owners, as any impurity can cause havoc to the fuel system and the strung out high pressure fuel pump that is dying left and right in the USA at present. Haven't heard too much about it in the Euro/Aust versions though, and if you have a CR, I'd be quite confident it's all fine, and run decent fuel all the time.
I still think that the piston design in the CR HPFP is flawed and only operates reliably when all the components are in perfect condition so some extra lubrication in the fuel is a good idea.
But only time will tell if the piezo electric setup is more reliable in the CR setup vs the late PD one.
My Passat 2.0 TDI 103kW wagon is a 2007 model, purchased new in Feb 2007.
It had been getting a little bit sluggish in starting up over the past few months which I had put down to a weakening battery - after all it was over 4 years old.
In late April 2011, the car engine cut out and the car came to a stop as we were approaching traffic lights, fortunately in the left hand lane, but unfortunately on a fairly busy Sydney road.
The engine would not start or even turn over and VW Assist sent the NRMA man to jumper the battery. That didn't work and so we ended up being towed to the dealer.
The dealer diagnosed two faulty injectors and, after discussion with VW Australia (so I am told) and further discussion with the extended warranty people, went ahead and replaced all 4 fuel injectors and the harness.
The total bill for the 4 injectors, harness, 8 bolts, labour and GST came to $4,464.70.
I was without the car for 1 week (including 1 day public holiday).
I took the opportunity to get a new battery fitted at the same time, just to make sure I didn't get stranded again. The car is now going fine.
The service advisor said that VW Australia had advised that all 4 injectors had to be replaced together and initially the extended warranty people had resisted to approve that until shown the appropriate documentation. (I wish I had gotten a copy of that now.)
I checked in my copy of VW Self-study Programme 352 "Unit Injectors with Piezo Valves", available from erWin for a price, or these days I believe there are copies floating around on the internet.
The section titled Variations or piezo-type unit injector Technical status 03/2005 says...
"There are two versions of the piezo-type unit injector, the first model (PPD 1.0) and the model described in this self-study programme (PPD 1.1). The first version is already being used in the 2.0l, 103kW, 4V TDI engine for the Passat from model year 2006 and will be gradually replaced by the latest version (PPD 1.1). These two types can ony be distinguished by the parts numbers stamped on them and are not interchangeable. If a combination of the two is fitted, the engine will run poorly"
I am surmising that my injectors were originally the 1.0 version and the new ones going in would obviously be 1.1. This is why all 4 had to be replaced.
The part number for the new injectors fitted to my car is VW03G130073SX.
This brings up the question on why version 1.1 came into being. Was there a fault or a weakness in the design or manufacture of version 1.0? Obviously there was some reason to make the upgrade and it didn't change the fuel consumption or engine power output or any other specifications that I am aware of. Certainly it didn't result in cost reduction. That leaves reliability as highly likely to be the reason.
Therefore, if TDI engines have been manufactured and sold with a component that is likely to fail and leave the car unable to move at some indeterminate random time, surely that is a safety concern (it is in Sydney traffic, that's for sure). Should there be a recall to change out the unreliable injectors before they fail and cause problems? Or should there be some other exchange arrangements that doesn't rely on negotiations with the extended warranty provider or (for those without warranty) presenting the owner with a large bill to replace what was a known faulty part?
The trauma of being stuck in traffic with an immobile car for a couple of hours and then being without the car for a week was bad enough. But it could have been a lot worse!
Just checked my invoice and I have all the new revised part numbers. Phew!Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Roles
...one of which has just failed after being replaced in a UK guys Audi.
THAT will be bad if the revised parts start falling over as well. Hopefully this is a one off.....
Don't tell me that!
None of us want to hear it mate!
EDIT: False alarm, turns out the second failure of the same injector in the Audi in question was a factory reconditioned "old" one.
Still is worth asking the question if you are getting injectors replaced, are they the newer "TX" or a reco old one???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Roles
The similarity between the part numbers for the 125 and 103 PD TDi's injectors is interestering.Quote:
Originally Posted by neromonk
And the failure of 103's in the same manner is a BIG concern given the larger number of these cars (although this + the smaller reported number of failures could mean that they are much more reliable and neromonk is just unlucky)
I wouldn't be so certain of that. Siemens just might not pass any on the cost savings to VAG.Quote:
Originally Posted by neromonk
Quote:
Originally Posted by neromonk
Given they are failing in vehicles built in late 2007 and they aren't replacing all four then it would appear that PPD 1.1 injectors are also faulty. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Roles
BTW, I see paulfs has had some joy with SEAT: Leon FR TDi Injector problem [Archive] - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum