Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: MK8 Golf R release November 4

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    837
    Users Country Flag

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozsko View Post
    When the DSG was first made the small car manufacturers had a few problems, low powered cars was one, inefficient torque converters with limited gear numbers was another and the third was a market that was demanding autos at an ever increasing rate. Anyone who has driven an older automatic small car will understand what terrible things they were to drive and what fuel guzzlers they were. The DSG fixed those problems but now we have lock up converters, good electronic controlled TC autos that have more gears than either DSG or manual cars and are every bit as efficient as the DSG and motors are now more powerful as well.
    No matter how "efficient" they get, torque converters always allow some rpm differential between the engine (higher) and the driven wheels (lower) some of the time. It is really the only reason for a torque converter to exist, to allow for that rpm difference. Which inevitably means more fuel is being used (less efficiently) at those times. Also less efficient is their shift speed, they can never remotely approach the gear change speed of a DSG that has preselected the next gear. In comparison, to facilitate the gear change, the auto has to unlock the torque converter, which being a fluid coupling is not rapid. Even less efficiency is evident in the torque converter auto due their engine braking ability compared to the direct connection of a DSG.

    Engine wise I'm not sure it matters how much power they have or have not, a DSG will always transmit more of that power to the driven wheels more of the time. There is a real reason why they are utilised in almost all forms of race cars, where transmission power loss is unforgiveable. For the same reason GTi's and R's are staying with DSG's, performance.

    BTW Packards had lock up torque converters in 1949, the common Hydramatics had lock up torque converters in 1981.

    Personally my view of VW's Australia's decision (if they have in fact made it) has nothing whatsoever to do with efficiency, power or fuel economy. More to do with warranty claims, perceptions of the reliability of DSG gearboxes and customers expectations when they buy an "automatic".


    Cheers
    Gary
    Polo GTi 2017, Golf Mk7 110TSI Highline, Golf Mk7.5 R, Skyline R32GTST, Stagea RS4,

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    130
    They are giving us the less efficient drive train for the next generation because they don't need to provide anything else for our country.

    Our laws don't require it, so they are giving countries who mandate it the food stuff.

    Some people might be ok with this.
    MY20 MK7.5 Golf GTI - Tornado Red - LP/S&SP
    MY19 AW Polo - Comfortline - DAP

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    1,284
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydneykid View Post
    No matter how "efficient" they get, torque converters always allow some rpm differential between the engine (higher) and the driven wheels (lower) some of the time. It is really the only reason for a torque converter to exist, to allow for that rpm difference. Which inevitably means more fuel is being used (less efficiently) at those times. Also less efficient is their shift speed, they can never remotely approach the gear change speed of a DSG that has preselected the next gear. In comparison, to facilitate the gear change, the auto has to unlock the torque converter, which being a fluid coupling is not rapid. Even less efficiency is evident in the torque converter auto due their engine braking ability compared to the direct connection of a DSG.<br>
    <br>
    Engine wise I'm not sure it matters how much power they have or have not, a DSG will always transmit more of that power to the driven wheels more of the time. There is a real reason why they are utilised in almost all forms of race cars, where transmission power loss is unforgiveable. For the same reason GTi's and R's are staying with DSG's, performance.<br>
    <br>
    BTW Packards had lock up torque converters in 1949, the common Hydramatics had lock up torque converters in 1981.<br>
    <br>
    Personally my view of VW's Australia's decision (if they have in fact made it) has nothing whatsoever to do with efficiency, power or fuel economy. More to do with warranty claims, perceptions of the reliability of DSG gearboxes and customers expectations when they buy an "automatic".<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Cheers<br>
    Gary
    The modern lock up low stall converter is by a huge magnitude a far better thing these day, far better low speed control and smoothness. Speed of gear changes, is 0.05 difference going to be noticed by anyone and the gear shift in either transmission in normal operation can't be felt anyway so the speed is irrelevant for all intents and purposes and both shift very fast. You ought to drive an EK Holden with a Hydramatic in it to see how good they were or a HR with a 2 speed powerglide, that was simply an awesome experience. Believe me a low powered car as these were is a horrible thing to drive and VW recognised that and needed a direct drive transmission. Lower powered 4 cylinder cars that VW were then producing was the direct driver of that decision and they had the precedent of Porsche to work from.

    Electronic control of transmissions has shifted the approach to drive lines away from what we knew and had to endure. You would not believe the amount of wiring in a modern auto unless you saw one opened up. Manuals were rubbish and gear set limited to at the most 4 gears and autos without electronic control even worse than a manual. You are right though, warranty is the reason and it is an admission that the DSG is simply too problematic though I have never had an issue over three cars at all. Another reason is they can buy a ZF or similar so why keep pouring R&amp;D into a transmission that within the foreseeable future will become redundant in major markets in Europe and the US as more electric models are introduced. What the rest of the world finish up with is open for debate.
    Last edited by Ozsko; 08-12-2020 at 01:37 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    837
    Users Country Flag
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozsko View Post
    The modern lock up low stall converter is by a huge magnitude a far better thing these day, far better low speed control and smoothness. Speed of gear changes, is 0.05 difference going to be noticed by anyone and the gear shift in either transmission in normal operation can't be felt anyway so the speed is irrelevant for all intents and purposes and both shift very fast. You ought to drive an EK Holden with a Hydramatic in it to see how good they were or a HR with a 2 speed powerglide, that was simply an awesome experience. Believe me a low powered car as these were is a horrible thing to drive and VW recognised that and needed a direct drive transmission. Lower powered 4 cylinder cars that VW were then producing was the direct driver of that decision and they had the precedent of Porsche to work from.

    Electronic control of transmissions has shifted the approach to drive lines away from what we knew and had to endure. You would not believe the amount of wiring in a modern auto unless you saw one opened up. Manuals were rubbish and gear set limited to at the most 4 gears and autos without electronic control even worse than a manual. You are right though, warranty is the reason and it is an admission that the DSG is simply too problematic though I have never had an issue over three cars at all. Another reason is they can buy a ZF or similar so why keep pouring R&amp;D into a transmission that within the foreseeable future will become redundant in major markets in Europe and the US as more electric models are introduced. What the rest of the world finish up with is open for debate.
    One of the cars I learnt to drive on was an EK waggon 253 auto, I remember very well.

    I'm not sure about the R&D issue. The rest of the VAG group, particularly Audi, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Porsche, are very much into DSG's and I don't see that changing. So the tech is flow down as far as VW is concerned, same for Seat, Skoda etc.

    On the speed of gear change (auto versus DSG), there's a lot of us running DSG change software of one type or another and the shift speed difference is very noticeable, even on the daily commute. In a race lap time sense, the 35% DSG speed up in the current GT3 Porsche is worth several tenths of second per lap and the previous version was no slouch. The average "automatic" driver won't even notice I am sure, but some of us will.

    Same here, 6 x VW's with DSG's in the family over 9 years and only 1 issue. My Polo GTi (of course it had to be mine) needed a warranty replacement mechatronic unit, due to the solenoid (electronics) failure. No mechanical issues, possibly because everyone in my family knows the difference between a DSG and an "automatic".

    Cheers
    Gary
    Last edited by Sydneykid; 13-04-2021 at 09:35 AM.
    Polo GTi 2017, Golf Mk7 110TSI Highline, Golf Mk7.5 R, Skyline R32GTST, Stagea RS4,

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    324
    Users Country Flag
    Rory has a great review...

    NEW VW Golf R Review: Has The Golf Reached Its Peak? | 4K - YouTube


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 MY18 R 7.5 Wolfsburg | Blue| Sunroof | Finally here! And it's goddam goood!
    2010 Mazda 6 | Luxury Sports | White : Sold
    2009 | 335i | Convertible | Grey : Sold
    2006 Jetta TSI DSG | Highline | Silver : Sold

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hobart
    Posts
    375
    Wow. Just wow. Made it to the end of the infotainment/driver interface section and gave up. Stuff that VW - I don't give a flying fig what the drive is like if I have to put up with that sh*t-show every day. My money will be going elsewhere, unless they 100% fix that before releasing the car here.
    2018 Golf GTI, Manual
    2017 Golf 110tsi Trendline, manual (gone - gladly)
    2007 Golf GTI, Manual, (gone - sadly)
    1978 Golf GLS; 1972 Superbug, (memories)

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by Splashalot View Post
    Wow. Just wow. Made it to the end of the infotainment/driver interface section and gave up. Stuff that VW - I don't give a flying fig what the drive is like if I have to put up with that sh*t-show every day. My money will be going elsewhere, unless they 100% fix that before releasing the car here.
    Yes, that's why I got my 7.5 last year, giving all that a big miss.
    MY20 MK7.5 Golf GTI - Tornado Red - LP/S&SP
    MY19 AW Polo - Comfortline - DAP

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    570

    Quote Originally Posted by Splashalot View Post
    Wow. Just wow. Made it to the end of the infotainment/driver interface section and gave up. Stuff that VW - I don't give a flying fig what the drive is like if I have to put up with that sh*t-show every day. My money will be going elsewhere, unless they 100% fix that before releasing the car here.
    Quote Originally Posted by genebaby View Post
    Yes, that's why I got my 7.5 last year, giving all that a big miss.
    Good. Send them a message that it was a HUGE mistake (RE: ergonomically & safety) to go in that direction.
    MY16 MK7 Golf GTI
    - Manual - Sunroof - Folding Mirrors - Lock/Unlock Chirp - 4x Indicator Flash - Traffic - MK7.5 LED Tail Lights with Sweeping Indicators - Dynablink Sweeping mirror LEDs - White LED's on rear rego plate -

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
| |