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Thread: Coding of Mk8

  1. #11
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    There’s whole businesses that generate income from supplying tools to talk to these modules.

    I imagine they will find a workaround. Meanwhile manufacturers are trying to tie up the servicing of vehicles through their dealer network.


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  2. #12
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    The token is a session key generated using digital certificate issued by VW, instead of the unlock code we use. This digital certificate is similar to what we use when browsing the internet (secure sites) or authenticating VPNs etc.

    It is possible for Ross-Tech or other vendors to work with VW and have the certificates generated for their software, though, the cost may increase multifold.

    VCDS can have its private/public keypair while VW has theirs.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibose View Post
    The token is a session key generated using digital certificate issued by VW, instead of the unlock code we use. This digital certificate is similar to what we use when browsing the internet (secure sites) or authenticating VPNs etc.

    It is possible for Ross-Tech or other vendors to work with VW and have the certificates generated for their software, though, the cost may increase multifold.

    VCDS can have its private/public keypair while VW has theirs.
    @nibose: I'm admittedly racking up an old post - but our understanding of SFD has increased in the intervening period!!

    In theory, I suspect that your "private/public keypair" suggestion is doable - but in this instance and because the new SFD protocols are ALL about VW (or more correctly, VAG) having complete control of ANY changes to the modules in the car, I very much doubt that third party vendors like VCDS will be allowed to have their own "private/public keypair".

    As I understand the solutions from VCP and VCDS (currently in Beta release), an official VW/VAG TOKEN is needed to seed any modification session when using the device on a SFD protected vehicle. To get a TOKEN (which is then inputted into the diagnostic cable), the user needs a GEKO account from VW/VAG - which ain't cheap and they have other restrictions like a Business registration number.

    I've been made aware of a German company that currently sells "Apps" (much like OBD11 Apps) for SFD cars - at a discounted cost of €30 each. But, I suspect that the seller is wheeling TOKENS from their GEKO account to App buyers. If I'm correct, this is a breach of the GEKO account license and I don't expect the activity to last long before VW/VAG legal takes action!

    At the heart of this matter (about how third party diagnostic device manufacturers will be allowed to interface with the new protocol) is the over-riding business objective of VW/VAG.

    Or, said brutally - having developed SFD restrictions and having invested in the necessary infrastructure to make it work- VW/VAG will allow third party vendors to interface only in a way that's in the best interest of the German shareholders!! Most definitely and without any offense intended, it's nonsense (and it's naive in the extreme) to believe that VW/VAG will allow third party cable manufacturers to negate SFD restrictions, or to bypass the strict- validation process by using their own "private/public keypairs" - IMO, of course!

    An agreement by VW/VAG allowing third party vendors to sell a solution that waters-down SFD restrictions can't possibly happen because it's the tail-wagging-the-dog!! Again, it simply doesn't make commercial sense from the parent company's perspective!!

    So, bottom line:
    1. For professional users who can justify GEKO costs, there will be an SFD alternative - but this alternative ONLY applies to purchasing the official ODIS tool!
    2. For mk 8 owners who are enthusiasts (like most everyone on this forum -I suspect), there will be no viable equivalent facility to the devices that have been enjoyed on previous vehicles- alas. For these folk (without GEKO access), the best that can be expected from diagnostic cables is a dumb fault code reader-alas!


    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 17-07-2021 at 02:22 PM.
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  4. #14
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    Cars are becoming more autonomous.
    Manufacturers will become more liable for any 'mistake' made by an assistance system that results in injury or death.
    They are protecting themselves by locking down any potential interference with the configuration of their systems.
    Else.
    Lawsuits.
    Pretty simple really.
    Sucks for enthusiasts and all those businesses out there built on modifying cars outside of the manufacturers intent.
    The dream of one day every car being a Carolla draws closer....

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  5. #15

    Just to update this thread, SFD Is now open for people to use, you can still carry on with VCDS, VCP etc but at this stage you need OBD11 to enable the unlock of SFD.

    From what I have seen once a control unit is unlocked it then stays open (unless you close it) for 90 Minutes.

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