Tiguan/Allspace Big Brake Kits

[doc_777]

Fitting larger capacity calipers won’t help you if the master cylinder isn’t up to the task. Larger calipers (greats number of pistons, larger piston volume) require a larger amount of fluid to be pumped to them to result in the same clamping pressure. There will be slight variations due to a larger swept area producing greater friction with less clamping pressure, but unless the factory master cylinder is up to the task you’re asking of it, then you’re going to require higher pedal pressure to achieve the same clamping pressure (you have to push the pedal harder than you do now to get the same stopping power), and ultimate braking capacity could quite possibly be reduced.

Physical fit is only one of the factors to consider. Arguably the most important one - compatibility of the replacement calipers with the factory master cylinder - is the one most often overlooked.

[Razor80]

Fitting larger capacity calipers won’t help you if the master cylinder isn’t up to the task. Larger calipers (greats number of pistons, larger piston volume) require a larger amount of fluid to be pumped to them to result in the same clamping pressure. There will be slight variations due to a larger swept area producing greater friction with less clamping pressure, but unless the factory master cylinder is up to the task you’re asking of it, then you’re going to require higher pedal pressure to achieve the same clamping pressure (you have to push the pedal harder than you do now to get the same stopping power), and ultimate braking capacity could quite possibly be reduced.

Physical fit is only one of the factors to consider. Arguably the most important one - compatibility of the replacement calipers with the factory master cylinder - is the one most often overlooked.

Thanks doc_777. This is what I am concerned about whether the standard hydraulic system will be adequate once fronts are upgraded. Will the rears loose pressure or vice versa?
Ive spoken to George at Alcon and he's positive these will be fine on the MQB standard system. So now im confused!

[tigger73]

Just fitted a set of Alcon 6 pots up today and can confirm a few things:

1) Tiguan uses the same brake master cylinder as Mk7 Golf R.

2) The actual volume of the 6 pots isn’t massively different than the stock brakes as there’s 6 smaller pistons instead of 2 larger ones on the stock brakes.

3) The Alcon brakes and rotors are lighter than the stock setup (even though they are bigger).

I do have a bit more pedal travel before the brakes bite but need to bleed the brakes again. Also need to do a few 100-0 stops to get them properly bed in. Fronts do pull up harder


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[Razor80]

Just fitted a set of Alcon 6 pots up today and can confirm a few things:

1) Tiguan uses the same brake master cylinder as Mk7 Golf R.

2) The actual volume of the 6 pots isn’t massively different than the stock brakes as there’s 6 smaller pistons instead of 2 larger ones on the stock brakes.

3) The Alcon brakes and rotors are lighter than the stock setup (even though they are bigger).

I do have a bit more pedal travel before the brakes bite but need to bleed the brakes again. Also need to do a few 100-0 stops to get them properly bed in. Fronts do pull up harder


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Thanks again tigger73 - You always return with some reassuring advice.

By the looks of the pistons they look like there staggered in size rather then the same size for all six. I'm guessing this is the help with the BMC with fluid pressure?

Hopefully once you've bleed them and bedded them in the pedal feel will improve. Are you keeping your rears stock? I'm not sure whether to change the pads and leave the standard rotors to gain a better response from them.

Btw - Howlong did your order take from ordering to being delivered?

[tigger73]

By the looks of the pistons they look like there staggered in size rather then the same size for all six. I'm guessing this is the help with the BMC with fluid pressure?

Not 100% sure but I’ve seen it on a few 6 pot brakes. Probably because this gives more even wear and best performance/feel??

Hopefully once you've bleed them and bedded them in the pedal feel will improve. Are you keeping your rears stock? I'm not sure whether to change the pads and leave the standard rotors to gain a better response from them.

I’ll possibly upgrade the rears with pads/rotors at a later stage. Pads can give you better initial bite if that’s what you’re after. Also some people change to ATE ceramics for less dust.

Btw - Howlong did your order take from ordering to being delivered?

These are normally around 4 weeks for the calipers plus a few days for painting. All the rotors/pads/hats etc are off he shelf items locally.

My workshop had these from a cancelled customer order so I was able to pick them up and get fitted without having to wait.


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[doc_777]

If the volume of the pistons/slave cylinders is greater on the new calipers than the volume on the old calipers then yes - you will get increase pedal travel - that is just science doing its thing. If the difference is truly minor, then that additional pedal travel shouldn’t affect everyday use. If the pedal hits the floor however, the you’re crap outta luck.

[Razor80]

Yes i'm after a better bite as i'm sure the bite from the from 6's up front would be a lot sharper. Thought this may solve some braking issues in the wet maybe? Just don't want pads that'll chew the OEM rotors in no time.

Could I ask where you purchased all your goods from locally (PM me if it's a secret)?
The ETA for the hats and brackets are 4-6 weeks to be custom made (overseas I'm assuming) but could run into delays and ultimately delay things. Only issue they seem to have some negative reviews with their delivery times etc that concerns me, especially payment in full!

Your red calliper's in your thread looks real nice on a black car. Not sure what would suit mine, silver/grey or black?

[Razor80]

If the volume of the pistons/slave cylinders is greater on the new calipers than the volume on the old calipers then yes - you will get increase pedal travel - that is just science doing its thing. If the difference is truly minor, then that additional pedal travel shouldn’t affect everyday use. If the pedal hits the floor however, the you’re crap outta luck.

Brakesdirect are reassuring that this kit is well suited to be fitted to OEM setup with no major issues. Also to be used with the standard rubber lines as there is some misconception between them and braided hoses. Advises my car is not 20 years old technology.

Would you suggest using there 4 pot version with the 355mm rotors over the 6 pot's?

[doc_777]

Brakesdirect are reassuring that this kit is well suited to be fitted to OEM setup with no major issues. Also to be used with the standard rubber lines as there is some misconception between them and braided hoses. Advises my car is not 20 years old technology.

Would you suggest using there 4 pot version with the 355mm rotors over the 6 pot's?

mate, i’ll be completely up-front and say I know next to nothing about the ACTUAL upgrade on a current VW - @tigger73 is neck deep in this stuff currently so if I were you i’d listen carefully to his experiences and feedback.

what I would say however is this - number of pistons is not a reliable indicator of performance. My opinion only - a street car should not need more than a 4 piston caliper if it’s correctly matched to the rest of the braking system. You get the best combination of package size, weight etc.

with all due respect to the supplier you are dealing with, whether your vehicle is 20 years old or 2 months old is irrelevant - the most important part of the upgrade you are considering is whether your current master cylinder will push sufficient fluid volume relative to the volume of the replacement calipers. I don’t pretend to be an expert in such things, I just know how wrong it can all go. If he’s telling you (and importantly, users like tigger who are actually undertaking this process) that the master cylinder is up to the task - i’ve got no reason to question it.

[tigger73]

Yes i'm after a better bite as i'm sure the bite from the from 6's up front would be a lot sharper. Thought this may solve some braking issues in the wet maybe? Just don't want pads that'll chew the OEM rotors in no time.

Could I ask where you purchased all your goods from locally (PM me if it's a secret)?
The ETA for the hats and brackets are 4-6 weeks to be custom made (overseas I'm assuming) but could run into delays and ultimately delay things. Only issue they seem to have some negative reviews with their delivery times etc that concerns me, especially payment in full!

Your red calliper's in your thread looks real nice on a black car. Not sure what would suit mine, silver/grey or black?

You'll get better bite just from upgrading the pads to something with a higher friction coefficient. I personally found the stock pads to be a bit too "progressive" an you really had to stand on the brakes to get a decent level of braking.

Pads is also the cheapest route and I think you would solve 90% of your complaints with a decent performance street pad.

6 pot brakes are probably a bit of an over-kill, though they pull you up pretty well. You then have to worry about the person behind you not being able to brake so well and rear ending you.

I purchased all the brakes through my local workshop who I believe got them from Brakes Direct. Calipers had to come in from overseas but I think they had pretty much everything else in stock. Not sure about the brackets.

I would want payment in full also if I was custom ordering parts that may be difficult to resell. That's actually how I picked up this brake set-up. The workshop had ordered them in for a customer and got them painted up only for the customer not to pay for them. I ended up getting them for a good price but may not have chosen to go red (probably would have picked yellow) but not going to repaint them now.