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Thread: R36 loss power- misfiring

  1. #1

    R36 loss power- misfiring

    HI everyone,
    I've not long bought a R36 and having a few major issues with it, noticed the power going down and now its starting to misfire, Ive changed the plugs twice with new coils but still no luck. Vw just fobbing me off as there no fault codes.

    Any suggestion ladies and gents?

    Ive checked vcd block 208/209 - intake is -3 and exhaust is 2 kw

    Ive done vcd logs as you can see below

    How do i log fuel pressure / injectors ? Any thing else perhaps

  2. #2
    '002 '020 '021
    Engine Speed Engine Load Injection Timing Mass Air Flow Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation
    (G2 (G70) Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5 Cylinder 6
    Marker /min % ms g/s °KW °KW °KW °KW °KW °KW
    1720 50.4 3.06 40.81 0 0 0 0 0 -3
    2240 76.7 4.34 68.56 0 0 0 0 0 0
    2920 85.7 4.34 96.36 -3 -6.8 -6 0 0 -0.8
    3600 81.2 3.83 113.78 -3 -6.8 -6 0 -2.3 -2.3
    4440 81.2 4.34 138.58 -1.5 -9 -7.5 -6.8 -2.3 -2.3
    5240 80.5 4.59 164.69 -0.8 -9 -7.5 -9 -2.3 -1.5
    5920 82 4.59 188.64 -0.8 -9 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    6440 81.2 4.59 204.19 -0.8 -9 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    4720 85.7 4.84 154.86 -3.8 -8.3 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    5160 82.7 4.59 166.39 -3.8 -8.3 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    5520 85 4.84 183.61 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    5920 83.5 4.84 191.86 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    6280 82 4.59 200.64 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -6.8 -4.5
    6560 81.2 4.59 207.69 -3.8 -8.3 -6 -10.5 -6.8 -4.5
    5520 86.5 3.57 188.78 -3.8 -9 -6 -10.5 -6 -4.5
    5080 85 4.84 168.17 -3.8 -8.3 -6 -10.5 -6 -4.5
    5320 84.2 4.84 175.42 -3 -8.3 -6 -9.8 -6 -3.8
    5480 85.7 4.59 182.86 -3 -8.3 -6 -9.8 -6 -3.8
    5440 13.5 1.28 26.03 0 0 0 0 0 0

  3. #3
    '002 '020 '021
    Engine Speed Engine Load Injection Timing Mass Air Flow Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation
    (G2 (G70) Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5 Cylinder 6
    Marker /min % ms g/s °KW °KW °KW °KW °KW °KW
    1720 50.4 3.06 40.81 0 0 0 0 0 -3
    2240 76.7 4.34 68.56 0 0 0 0 0 0
    2920 85.7 4.34 96.36 -3 -6.8 -6 0 0 -0.8
    3600 81.2 3.83 113.78 -3 -6.8 -6 0 -2.3 -2.3
    4440 81.2 4.34 138.58 -1.5 -9 -7.5 -6.8 -2.3 -2.3
    5240 80.5 4.59 164.69 -0.8 -9 -7.5 -9 -2.3 -1.5
    5920 82 4.59 188.64 -0.8 -9 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    6440 81.2 4.59 204.19 -0.8 -9 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    4720 85.7 4.84 154.86 -3.8 -8.3 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    5160 82.7 4.59 166.39 -3.8 -8.3 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    5520 85 4.84 183.61 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    5920 83.5 4.84 191.86 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    6280 82 4.59 200.64 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -6.8 -4.5
    6560 81.2 4.59 207.69 -3.8 -8.3 -6 -10.5 -6.8 -4.5
    5520 86.5 3.57 188.78 -3.8 -9 -6 -10.5 -6 -4.5
    5080 85 4.84 168.17 -3.8 -8.3 -6 -10.5 -6 -4.5
    5320 84.2 4.84 175.42 -3 -8.3 -6 -9.8 -6 -3.8
    5480 85.7 4.59 182.86 -3 -8.3 -6 -9.8 -6 -3.8
    5440 13.5 1.28 26.03 0 0 0 0 0 0

  4. #4
    Group A: '014 '015 Group C: '016
    Engine Speed Engine Load Misfire Misfire Misfire Counter Misfire Counter Misfire Counter Misfire Misfire Counter Misfire Counter Misfire Counter Misfire
    TIME (G2 (total) Recognition Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Recognition TIME Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5 Cylinder 6 Recognition
    STAMP /min % STAMP
    104.13 1520 33.1 0 Enabled 0 0 0 Enabled 104.4 0 0 0 Enabled
    104.52 1520 27.1 1 Enabled 0 1 0 Enabled 104.77 0 0 0 Enabled
    104.9 1520 24.8 1 Enabled 0 1 0 Enabled 105.15 0 1 0 Enabled
    105.27 1560 25.6 2 Enabled 0 1 0 Enabled 105.52 0 1 0 Enabled
    105.64 1560 27.8 2 Enabled 0 2 0 Enabled 105.9 0 1 0 Enabled
    106.02 1600 33.8 4 Enabled 0 3 0 Enabled 106.27 0 1 0 Enabled
    106.39 1640 33.8 4 Enabled 0 3 0 Enabled 106.65 0 1 0 Enabled
    106.77 1680 32.3 4 Enabled 0 3 0 Enabled 107.02 0 1 0 Enabled
    107.14 1720 28.6 5 Enabled 0 5 0 Enabled 107.39 0 1 0 Enabled
    107.52 1760 27.1 6 Enabled 0 5 0 Enabled 107.77 0 1 0 Enabled
    107.9 1520 33.8 6 Enabled 0 5 0 Enabled 108.14 0 1 0 Enabled
    108.28 1400 39.8 6 Enabled 0 5 0 Enabled 108.54 0 1 0 Enabled
    108.66 1360 40.6 6 Enabled 0 5 0 Enabled 108.91 0 1 0 Enabled
    109.03 1400 39.1 6 Enabled 0 5 0 Enabled 109.28 0 1 0 Enabled

  5. #5
    '002 '020 '021
    Engine Speed Engine Load Injection Timing Mass Air Flow Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation Timing Retardation
    (G2 (G70) Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5 Cylinder 6
    /min % ms g/s °KW °KW °KW °KW °KW °KW
    1720 50.4 3.06 40.81 0 0 0 0 0 -3
    2240 76.7 4.34 68.56 0 0 0 0 0 0
    2920 85.7 4.34 96.36 -3 -6.8 -6 0 0 -0.8
    3600 81.2 3.83 113.78 -3 -6.8 -6 0 -2.3 -2.3
    4440 81.2 4.34 138.58 -1.5 -9 -7.5 -6.8 -2.3 -2.3
    5240 80.5 4.59 164.69 -0.8 -9 -7.5 -9 -2.3 -1.5
    5920 82 4.59 188.64 -0.8 -9 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    6440 81.2 4.59 204.19 -0.8 -9 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    4720 85.7 4.84 154.86 -3.8 -8.3 -6.8 -9 -3.8 -1.5
    5160 82.7 4.59 166.39 -3.8 -8.3 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    5520 85 4.84 183.61 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    5920 83.5 4.84 191.86 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -3.8 -4.5
    6280 82 4.59 200.64 -3.8 -9 -6.8 -10.5 -6.8 -4.5
    6560 81.2 4.59 207.69 -3.8 -8.3 -6 -10.5 -6.8 -4.5
    5520 86.5 3.57 188.78 -3.8 -9 -6 -10.5 -6 -4.5
    5080 85 4.84 168.17 -3.8 -8.3 -6 -10.5 -6 -4.5

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    I would start with the absolute basics. Seeing that you have already changed spark plugs and ignition coils then I would do the following:

    - Check and clean the MAF sensor between the airbox and the throttle body (even check the MAF sensor is facing the correct way).
    - Check and clean the throttle body.
    - Check for air leaks on the intake (perished rubber lines/clamps not done up tightly etc).
    - Then I would start looking at fuel pressure issues. Im not sure if the R36 has a replaceable fuel filter, but if it does - replace it. Then look at the low pressure fuel pump in the fuel tank, or the high pressure fuel pump on the engine.
    2017 Ford Fiesta ST
    2015 Audi SQ5 bi-turbo V6 TDI family hauler

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas_R View Post
    I would start with the absolute basics. Seeing that you have already changed spark plugs and ignition coils then I would do the following:

    - Check and clean the MAF sensor between the airbox and the throttle body (even check the MAF sensor is facing the correct way).
    - Check and clean the throttle body.
    - Check for air leaks on the intake (perished rubber lines/clamps not done up tightly etc).
    - Then I would start looking at fuel pressure issues. Im not sure if the R36 has a replaceable fuel filter, but if it does - replace it. Then look at the low pressure fuel pump in the fuel tank, or the high pressure fuel pump on the engine.
    How would you suggest cleaning the maf? its the right way don't think it goes another way as it screws to airbox.

    cleaned the tb and done alignment

    cant see any air leaks, but brake pedal has a slight hiss but goes away.

    There no service fuel filter, just one the fuelpump in the tank ive read.
    anyway to check fuel pumps pressures eg via vcds ?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddy786 View Post
    How would you suggest cleaning the maf? its the right way don't think it goes another way as it screws to airbox.

    cleaned the tb and done alignment

    cant see any air leaks, but brake pedal has a slight hiss but goes away.

    There no service fuel filter, just one the fuelpump in the tank ive read.
    anyway to check fuel pumps pressures eg via vcds ?
    There are cleaning sprays for the MAF sensor. Good to hear its facing the correct way - with some cars it can only fit one way to prevent people putting it in the wrong way.

    You literally just spray the MAF sensor (and any of the hot wires which may/may not be visible) and the cleaner just makes them spotless and the liquid evaporates within a few seconds. I was helping my neighbour diagnose a rough idle and misfire on their car just yesterday and cleaned the MAF as part of my work (MAF was filthy as well as the throttle body and idle control valve - i suspect its never been cleaned in 20 yrs).

    As for fuel pressure logging, im not sure if the R36 can do this with VCDS. You would just have to have a poke around and experiment.

    Also, another thing to add to your list of possible culprits is the PCV valve. The PCV is very common to fail on the R32 and R36 engine and can cause misfires as it allows air to enter the engine that has not been registered by the MAF sensor. This place sell a kit with new internal parts: RKX VW & Audi 3.6 & 3.2 Engine Valve Cover PCV Valve Diaphragm – RKXtech

    Another thread with similar issues to you: Passat R36 Idling Rough
    2017 Ford Fiesta ST
    2015 Audi SQ5 bi-turbo V6 TDI family hauler

  9. #9
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    On top of the suggestions today, the R36 has low and high fuel pressure sensors, the sensors should throw a code if they fail or sense incorrect pressures, VCDS can read fuel pressures, check Live Data in the engine control unit.

    The filters in the fuel pump (in the right side tank under the rear seat) are supposed to be life time (brilliant) and a cleaner additive is specified at service intervals to clean them out. Modern fuels should also help with that. There are a few you tube vids in your part of the world of filters being replaced in the pump. They are very expensive lumps of mostly plastic to replace the whole thing.

    The left side tank has a slave 'pump' that the main pump uses to draw fuel out of the left tank into the pump as the tanks are joined in a saddle arrangement. The slave maybe dirty if tanks have been had some poor fuel. I had to crack open both sides of my at the 10 year mark (chasing a fuel pressure issue) and they were pleasingly spotless both sides, the main pump filters were, well, ten years of filtering was evident.
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  10. #10
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    Interesting.. Mine did similar, but i also had the timing chain chatter on startup for a period perceding, which i ignored after reading it was common, Ended up being undrivable, and the engine had disintegrated the timing chain guides, and the trailing side of the chain (opposite the tensioner side) on the top chain, was flapping, and jumped teeth on the fuel pump drive pulley. symptoms were horrid screetching as well.

    R36 loss power- misfiring-20210116_163837-jpg
    R36 loss power- misfiring-20210116_165013-jpg
    R36 loss power- misfiring-20210116_165004-jpg

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