Looking to buy a Passat Alltrack MY13: loss of confidence in VAG cars

[hoyagg957]

Hi all!

I am considering a Passat B7 Alltrack with under 130 000 km but before coming to that I would like to vent a bit on a recent Audi Q5-DSG disaster that happened to me.

So as from my intro post, I am a Frenchy now living in Sydney. Back in France, me and my family own/owned few VAG (my first car was a Gold IV sport Tiptronic, then I had a seat Ibiza for a bit and a sexy Scirocco,my parents having Golfs and Polos up to these days) so I would consider myself as a true VAG fan, I can say these cars procured me great pleasure and probably saved my life few times. I also had a Honda civic 2006 140hp diesel that was GREAT but not as nice as a VW.

Three years ago, I moved here and bought a 2007 Honda CRVwith over 200K kms for reliability and 4x4 needs. It was great for the price. I sold it before having too much to do on it and because I hated the look since day one. I should not criticise the driving as it was an old and cheap AWD so that was expected.

About 6 months ago I started to think about getting a Passat B7. I was surprised by how cheap VAG are here compared to Europe! Also, they are less common here, in France 30% cars are VAG I’d say. And they last forever:everyone expects them to do 200 to 300K km, then they send them to Africa, and they go for even longer. However, they are very likely manual (opposite proportion than here I’d say). Europeans don’t trust autos; they believe they are going to break and then the car is worth peanuts. Well that is some times true. And they are tight. It is gently changing but nothing like here.

Anyway, I could not decide between an expensive Alltrack (best price I saw for mileage and years was 11K and it was already sold, they were mostly $13-15K) and a classic Passat for $9-10K with same Ks. Honestly, I cannot understand why such a price difference, new price is like 2K more for the Alltrack, but second hand it is more like 5K more?! I understand there is more demand and they are more suitable to Australia but still? I could not find a decent car by February, went away and was back and with Covid no more cars were for sale.

Then about 2 months ago cars were put up for sale again, and on my facebook marketplace few Audi Q5s popped up next to the Passats… for less than 15K for a 2011 and under 130K kms! WTF? I thought “so cheap for a 70K car!I am better getting one!”.

Here we go, I found a 2010 MY11 Q5 2.0 TFSI with 130K Km in great condition from a dealer, and without too much research I take it (silly I know, but I wasn’t considering a Q5 after all). Great to drive, beautiful inside, responsive and easy to handle… I loved it, maybe except for the high boot and bulky/mushroom overall look, but I can forgive it that.

Love story then… till it started sucking oil after 2 weeks…like crazy. 1L per 400km. I realised it is one of those CDNC **** engine that was not fixed by Audi. I called Audi and ask them if they would fix it (worth $15K) under goodwill and they say “case by case basis, but in any case only if full Audi history”. Nope, the car had been serviced elsewhere too. Hm.

I didn’t have time to think further that the screen shows“Gearbox malfunction, you can continue to drive, no revers” on a main road, on peak hour, by myself (should I say on a hill?). But wasn’t it the supposedly strong DSG 7sp wet OB5??? Yes, it is. Online research shows it is likely the mechatronics or a clutch, another 2-10K depending what and where to do it!Nightmare. I cannot deal with it anymore and went back to the dealer (lucky I could drive it there, the DSG was ok to drive for 20-30 mn of city driving before dropping, I suppose by overheating, as I could drive it again after 30mn for a little 10mn), now to get a full refund and dump his garbage car! That was not easy, but I got my money. The end.

So… I have lost trust in VAG. I don’t know where I stand. The reality is scary. I have experienced a car dropping down for the first time, I hate it. How can they make such a **** engine and not fix all of them properly?I read that all 2009-2011 2.0 TFSI have the issue, one day or the other. In the US they have accepted to fix these engines at up to 8Y and 100 000 miles, but not here? WTF? Are Aussies too little to count??
Ok so you just avoid these engines here.

But what about the DSG??? After reading that the wet DSG are much stronger/reliable, why did this one let go at 130 000 km?? Do you also avoid this model? Well looks like people don’t always have an issue, certainly less than the dry 7sp one but still, it should not happen!

Should you also avoid any DSG as a principle in second hand cars because of too many variables/it's impossible to tell the state of the box? They are in many fancy cars, but also the newer Audi from 2012 have the slush box ZF 8sp Tiptronic, why?? Because the OB5 cannot survive the 225hp from the TFSI? Because Q5 owners are mostly mums that cannot understand how to drive a DSG/cannot stay on a strong brake so the DSG disengages properly? (*I am obviously not one of those) Because Q5 owners prefer slush boxes? Was this car a one out of a thousand mishaps? Could something like a bad gearbox service be the reason the DSG died so early? The DSG service was done but not at Audi and as it was second hand, you can never truly know. Even then, it should not die so early. The car never towed, but probably did a lot of city driving due to the low mileage. Still not a reason to me. I still cannot believe a $70Kcar was worth literally $0 after less than 10 years! I will definitely never buy new considering that.


If someone has some serious answers to any of these interrogations, please tell me. I am now sceptical on VAG. To the point to consider a BMW X1 (I hate the inside, so austere, but you can’t have every thing they say), which is also available from $10-11K for a 2011 with 100-120K km fora car worth $55-58K new. Bit shorter than the Passat, which I would likely not mind, but otherwise all boxes are ticked. And no bloody DSG. I can even avoid a diesel if I want to. Hm seems like a match!

Or any other ideas? Must have: auto; a low entry boot so my future dog can jump; mini 4.50m long; AWD so I can go in the mountains and in the bush; leather; budget $10-14K; mini 2010; interior decent; great value and reliability! By that I mean I don’t care if an electronic button is likely to fail, as I can easily fix that. Just nothing about the engine/gearbox/something making the car not roadworthy unless spending thousands.

If I was to get a Passat Alltrack, I read there is a 5Y warranty on the DSG in 2013… Okay the 5 years are over but that shows something no? VAG had trust in its product OR did they want to make clients serene enough to trust/buy them again after their dry DSG disaster? Would an issue happen in the next few months be covered under goodwill if I get a car that is 7y old?Should I buy cars with VW services only to have any chance to get a ‘goodwill’ cover? To which car exactly is the 5 year warranty has applied to? I mean like 2012 to 2013: Year model or 1^st Rego? Would the 6 sp DSG be similar to drive to the 7sp OB5? I have to say, it was great to drive, till it broke ☹. Issues with the DPF or EGR with the 2.0 TDI? I had this engine before, it was nice. How can I check the car and be 100% I will not get in trouble in the next 2 years/up to 180K km (YES I believe a VAG should last that long without having expensive issues)? Or should I stop dreaming? Is VAG a brand of sharks selling lemons-to-be?


Sorry for the long post, I think I needed to share that, and my partner knows **** about cars so I am by myself to buy THE comfortable and reliable car that will take us everywhere and never drop down. Shame I know. I know I should have done more research beforehand. I thought as I was buying from a dealer… I still can’t believe such problems with a $70K Audi.

Also, do not buy an Audi Q5 MY11 white with black speed bands. Don’t do it.

[Matt86]

Hi all!

I am considering a Passat B7 Alltrack with under 130 000 km but before coming to that I would like to vent a bit on a recent Audi Q5-DSG disaster that happened to me.

So as from my intro post, I am a Frenchy now living in Sydney. Back in France, me and my family own/owned few VAG (my first car was a Gold IV sport Tiptronic, then I had a seat Ibiza for a bit and a sexy Scirocco,my parents having Golfs and Polos up to these days) so I would consider myself as a true VAG fan, I can say these cars procured me great pleasure and probably saved my life few times. I also had a Honda civic 2006 140hp diesel that was GREAT but not as nice as a VW.

Three years ago, I moved here and bought a 2007 Honda CRVwith over 200K kms for reliability and 4x4 needs. It was great for the price. I sold it before having too much to do on it and because I hated the look since day one. I should not criticise the driving as it was an old and cheap AWD so that was expected.

About 6 months ago I started to think about getting a Passat B7. I was surprised by how cheap VAG are here compared to Europe! Also, they are less common here, in France 30% cars are VAG I’d say. And they last forever:everyone expects them to do 200 to 300K km, then they send them to Africa, and they go for even longer. However, they are very likely manual (opposite proportion than here I’d say). Europeans don’t trust autos; they believe they are going to break and then the car is worth peanuts. Well that is some times true. And they are tight. It is gently changing but nothing like here.

Anyway, I could not decide between an expensive Alltrack (best price I saw for mileage and years was 11K and it was already sold, they were mostly $13-15K) and a classic Passat for $9-10K with same Ks. Honestly, I cannot understand why such a price difference, new price is like 2K more for the Alltrack, but second hand it is more like 5K more?! I understand there is more demand and they are more suitable to Australia but still? I could not find a decent car by February, went away and was back and with Covid no more cars were for sale.

Then about 2 months ago cars were put up for sale again, and on my facebook marketplace few Audi Q5s popped up next to the Passats… for less than 15K for a 2011 and under 130K kms! WTF? I thought “so cheap for a 70K car!I am better getting one!”.

Here we go, I found a 2010 MY11 Q5 2.0 TFSI with 130K Km in great condition from a dealer, and without too much research I take it (silly I know, but I wasn’t considering a Q5 after all). Great to drive, beautiful inside, responsive and easy to handle… I loved it, maybe except for the high boot and bulky/mushroom overall look, but I can forgive it that.

Love story then… till it started sucking oil after 2 weeks…like crazy. 1L per 400km. I realised it is one of those CDNC **** engine that was not fixed by Audi. I called Audi and ask them if they would fix it (worth $15K) under goodwill and they say “case by case basis, but in any case only if full Audi history”. Nope, the car had been serviced elsewhere too. Hm.

I didn’t have time to think further that the screen shows“Gearbox malfunction, you can continue to drive, no revers” on a main road, on peak hour, by myself (should I say on a hill?). But wasn’t it the supposedly strong DSG 7sp wet OB5??? Yes, it is. Online research shows it is likely the mechatronics or a clutch, another 2-10K depending what and where to do it!Nightmare. I cannot deal with it anymore and went back to the dealer (lucky I could drive it there, the DSG was ok to drive for 20-30 mn of city driving before dropping, I suppose by overheating, as I could drive it again after 30mn for a little 10mn), now to get a full refund and dump his garbage car! That was not easy, but I got my money. The end.

So… I have lost trust in VAG. I don’t know where I stand. The reality is scary. I have experienced a car dropping down for the first time, I hate it. How can they make such a **** engine and not fix all of them properly?I read that all 2009-2011 2.0 TFSI have the issue, one day or the other. In the US they have accepted to fix these engines at up to 8Y and 100 000 miles, but not here? WTF? Are Aussies too little to count??
Ok so you just avoid these engines here.

But what about the DSG??? After reading that the wet DSG are much stronger/reliable, why did this one let go at 130 000 km?? Do you also avoid this model? Well looks like people don’t always have an issue, certainly less than the dry 7sp one but still, it should not happen!

Should you also avoid any DSG as a principle in second hand cars because of too many variables/it's impossible to tell the state of the box? They are in many fancy cars, but also the newer Audi from 2012 have the slush box ZF 8sp Tiptronic, why?? Because the OB5 cannot survive the 225hp from the TFSI? Because Q5 owners are mostly mums that cannot understand how to drive a DSG/cannot stay on a strong brake so the DSG disengages properly? (*I am obviously not one of those) Because Q5 owners prefer slush boxes? Was this car a one out of a thousand mishaps? Could something like a bad gearbox service be the reason the DSG died so early? The DSG service was done but not at Audi and as it was second hand, you can never truly know. Even then, it should not die so early. The car never towed, but probably did a lot of city driving due to the low mileage. Still not a reason to me. I still cannot believe a $70Kcar was worth literally $0 after less than 10 years! I will definitely never buy new considering that.


If someone has some serious answers to any of these interrogations, please tell me. I am now sceptical on VAG. To the point to consider a BMW X1 (I hate the inside, so austere, but you can’t have every thing they say), which is also available from $10-11K for a 2011 with 100-120K km fora car worth $55-58K new. Bit shorter than the Passat, which I would likely not mind, but otherwise all boxes are ticked. And no bloody DSG. I can even avoid a diesel if I want to. Hm seems like a match!

Or any other ideas? Must have: auto; a low entry boot so my future dog can jump; mini 4.50m long; AWD so I can go in the mountains and in the bush; leather; budget $10-14K; mini 2010; interior decent; great value and reliability! By that I mean I don’t care if an electronic button is likely to fail, as I can easily fix that. Just nothing about the engine/gearbox/something making the car not roadworthy unless spending thousands.

If I was to get a Passat Alltrack, I read there is a 5Y warranty on the DSG in 2013… Okay the 5 years are over but that shows something no? VAG had trust in its product OR did they want to make clients serene enough to trust/buy them again after their dry DSG disaster? Would an issue happen in the next few months be covered under goodwill if I get a car that is 7y old?Should I buy cars with VW services only to have any chance to get a ‘goodwill’ cover? To which car exactly is the 5 year warranty has applied to? I mean like 2012 to 2013: Year model or 1^st Rego? Would the 6 sp DSG be similar to drive to the 7sp OB5? I have to say, it was great to drive, till it broke ☹. Issues with the DPF or EGR with the 2.0 TDI? I had this engine before, it was nice. How can I check the car and be 100% I will not get in trouble in the next 2 years/up to 180K km (YES I believe a VAG should last that long without having expensive issues)? Or should I stop dreaming? Is VAG a brand of sharks selling lemons-to-be?


Sorry for the long post, I think I needed to share that, and my partner knows **** about cars so I am by myself to buy THE comfortable and reliable car that will take us everywhere and never drop down. Shame I know. I know I should have done more research beforehand. I thought as I was buying from a dealer… I still can’t believe such problems with a $70K Audi.

Also, do not buy an Audi Q5 MY11 white with black speed bands. Don’t do it.

I've owned four VAG cars so far, including my R36 and it's going to be my last (Unless I was going to buy new, but I won't get ripped off with buying a brand new car).

My older Audi B3 and B4 were very good, maintenance heavy but parts (at the time) weren't horribly priced for what it was. Bit annoying to work on, etc however and being more base model cars there wasn't a lot of benefit on owning it over say a newer Honda or Ford (It was still nicer, but you get what I mean).

My B5 A4 has been recalled in the Takata recall and I'm just not taking it in, Audi Australia's resolution to airbag replacements are to... Buyback the cars at well below the actual value and then crush them. Apart from it being morally wrong to call this a "Voluntary recall", how is this sustainable legally and from an environmental standpoint (other manafacturers are doing this too, however the valuations are at least what the car is worth or close to it).

The dealers (for the most part) just rip you off and don't really know anything about older models, as you've mentioned you've got the recalls that they just do not accept being a thing in Australia.

Honestly the only dealer that's been of use to me are the two Volkswagen dealers near me and that's likely because I know a few of the people there. I can't comment on other Dealers but my local Audi is hopeless for after sales support.

In terms of the DSG - if the wrong fluid is used, it WILL overheat and cause damage to the clutchpacks which is assumbaly your issue, but I am no mechanic so take what I say with a grain of salt.. (This happeend with my R36 and the dealer wouldn't give me a refund for such a major failure).

[Matt86]

If you are going to get a used VAG/Euro car in general I'd suggest.

A. Having a full service history
B. Buying privately, as private sales tend to less likely be lemons (but you have less to fall back on if anything does go wrong)
C. Look up common issues, such as the CDNA motor.. either taking into consideration that this WILL need a rebuild or that you can get it done by Audi Australia.. or just avoiding it
D. Get a pre purchase inspection if you can/aren't car minded
E. Find a good/reputable mechanic or work on it yourself.

[kamold]

The 7 speed wet clutch DSG has a reputation for being a very strong gearbox.
Hence it's use in big power builds like twin turbo VR6s etc.
With that said there must be some reasons why Audi chose to use the ZF 8HP in car like the high torque SQ5.
Mr Zeppelin has been making some great gearboxes for some time now and there's good reason why a lot of manufacturers are using them in all sorts of cars.

Yes a gearbox should not have issues at 130k. But I think on balance that's the exception rather than the rule with the 0D9/0B5.
Without knowing specifics of the failure/fault codes its up to the diagnosis you have.

B7 are the end of the development cycle as far as PQ platform for Passat. Quite mature engineering-wise with lots of nice comfort features.
They were not all that popular here so that results in lower barrier for entry, but less availability of some parts - but there are ample available from EU if you can wait for them.

Just my 2c...

[Hillbilly]

My B5 A4 has been recalled in the Takata recall and I'm just not taking it in,
).

You might not be drivng it for long then as it seems those that dont get done will be deregistered after the end of the year

[Sharkie]

Mate, in your budget, and with your requirements, you will only (mostly anyway) be looking at cars from VAG that have problematic DSG boxes. They are ALL ticking timebombs and a DSG failure is practically guaranteed at some point in time.

Best bet is to look elsewhere I'm afraid. Go for a Toyota RAV4 with a proper torque converter auto and good interior space around circa 2012 like this 1. You have been blocked

It will (with adequate maintenance) outlast most VAG cars on the road today (even brand new ones).

As an outside chance, perhaps look at a Tiguan from around 2012. It had a 6spd tiptronic (not DSG) which is so much more reliable than the DSG. It still has a suspect engine though with timing chain issues possibly affecting the 2.0TSI of that vintage. You have been blocked

As much as I love my VWs, if you buy an older model with known issues, chances are you will get stung.

BTW .... all Takata affected cars (as mentioned by Hillbilly) will be automatically de-registered by the various states. It means unless the airbag is replaced you will not be able to drive it any longer.

[hoyagg957]

Matt86 you convinced me to forget about VAG with that Takata policy... Sad to see the group turned their back to Australia. Too bad, VAG will loose me and my family.

Kamold I already found 2 other Q5 with TDI engine with clutchpack changed under 150000 km on gumtree. So I'd consider it's a common issue.
If so then VAG should make part of the service maintenance to check it AND to replace it so clients know what to expect. AND the price of such service must be reduced to an acceptable maintenance cost.

OBD diagnosis was showing 'transmission slippage', sorry I didn't get the exact code written down.

I searched the resale price on the redbook website to select those cars. I see many private seller believing they can sell at the same price as dealers. It's not the same value, dealer cars come with at least 3 months warranty (often a year or it's negotiable) and legal security. They can always try. Many are on the market for more than 6 months. I don't think my budget is unrealistic, and I've seen cars in this budget. I'm happy to stretch the Ks a little bit if the good car has more.

Anyway, I think I have my answer, thanks guys.

[sn809]

Matt86 you convinced me to forget about VAG with that Takata policy... Sad to see the group turned their back to Australia. Too bad, VAG will loose me and my family.

Anyway, I think I have my answer, thanks guys.

The takata recall deregistering is for all old cars, not just VW. Audi have taken this step due to shortage of bags where they are crushing them AFAIK.

[Hillbilly]

The takata recall deregistering is for all old cars, not just VW. Audi have taken this step due to shortage of bags where they are crushing them AFAIK.

Yeah they are buying them back because the parts are no longer available to fix them Honda Subaru VW Audi possible Skoda as well

[hoyagg957]

sn809 and Hillbilly thanks for the clarification, so basically most cars right now that did not have their takata airbag done are going to be deregistered? Or are the parts no longer available only those of VAG cars?

If it's mostly VAG cars, It is their fault for not finding/making/planning enough parts to fix them. Well even if most brands have the issue, the fact that VAG buy them back for peanuts is still their fault.

Does anyone know about the 5 year warranty on gearboxes, if it applies to all passats up to mid 2013 or after that as well? Is it by year model or release date? Thanks