Volkswagen Enthusiast
Which is a negative in a manual car as I found on the only car I've owned with left hand indicator - my '77 Golf. I never ever came to terms with the fact you can't indicate and change gears at the same time and I had to choose what I'd do first when coming up to a surburban corner - indicate first or change back to 3rd. I notice European cars in Europe don't have the indicators on the right hand side, which to me says it all about the ergonomics. For us, lights switch and indicators on the right and wiper/washers on the left make more sense and the Japanese and Australian manufacturers seem to agree. And so do the American and European manufacturers in their own markets. Keep the indicators away from the gearchange.Originally Posted by coreying
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VWwA Super Moderator
You've only got two hands man, so it's not like you can change the gear, and steer around a round-a-bout and indicate at the same time anyway... you need to do a hand shuffle to accomplish this if the indicators are on the right hand side, whereas with a left hand indicator, you just have to think ahead...
Btw, I drive a manual VW...
Volkswagen Fan
true, I just don't get it - there was an article on news about car review, then as soon as the comments start flowing people got into a good and evil war about indicator stalk? not just one time but I've seen and read it many many times....
gosh, is this how low driver's skill in Australia has become? that if you ended up in a car that has the indicator stalk in a position other than where you prefer it (be it on left or right) then all the driver's 5 senses + common sense stopped functioning and causing them crashing head bang first into a tree/pole?
The last I looked there were heaps of other stuffs that might cause people to crash:
1. Indicator stalk position (right hand vs left hand)
2. Emergency/park brake lever (centre console lever, vs centre console electronic push button vs foot operated, vs hand operated under dash, etc)
3. Headlight switch (steering column stalk vs on dash turn dial switch, etc)
4. Mirror adjustment switch (manual on each corner, vs centre console vs driver side door, vs on dash, etc)
5. Wiper operating stalk (right hand vs left hand) - see #1
6. Hazard light button position (various positions around the dash)
7. Front demister position (various positions around the dash)
8. Spare tyre location (in the boot, hanging on the rear hatch, or hanging from underneath the car, mounted on front bullbar ,etc)
9. etc etc etc
Looking at how many stuffs of things vary from one car to another in the above list, we should all be dead by now because we simply got into an accident when one of those stuffs are not located where they are when we swapped cars.
But hey. we're still here? so what's the problem?
Volkswagen Enthusiast
I don't change gears in the middle of a roundabout but before I enter it and I also indicate as I 'm about to enter it and as I leave. And who takes their hands off the wheel to indicate anyway? It's a mere movement of a finger. And who shuffles?
The proof of the correct set-up is to be found in Europe, North America etc where the indicators are on the other side of the steering wheel from the gearchange. It's the countries like Australia that have to put up with the indifferent attitude of the Europeans to the few markets like ours. The Japanese manage to convert their cars for the American and European markets.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
It's called good ergonomics and for a car like the Golf that otherwise has such good ergonomics it is a shame that it can be slightly spoilt by the slack or non-caring attutude of its manufacturer.
Afterall the Europeans and Americans get their Golfs with the indicator on the driver's door side. It's not a deal breaker for me, just a small detraction.
Volkswagen Fan
the only reason not introducing right hand side indicator stalk is because there isn't a mandatory ADR (Aust Design Rules) to require indicator stalk on a specific side of the steering column.
if the local government at their destination market do not require so, then don't expect all car makers will go all the way to do stuffs not required to pass compliance... a very good example is if you see any japanese cars with OEM HID, they do not have the headlight washers if they're officially sold in asia etc because the law there does not require it, why bother adding weight, cost, etc to the car?
They only had to add headlight washers for australian market.
Japanese car makers may swap the indicator for europe market but there may be a european car law that requires indicator to be on the left hand side for LHD cars... ?
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VWwA Super Moderator
Well, I was extrapolating your comments on not being able to change gears and indicate at the same time. Who shuffles? Someone who actually needs to change gear when exiting a large round-a-bout and has the indicator stalk on the right.
This was about the most complicated situation I could think of. Because if we're just driving along with the wheel in a position where you can reach the indicator stalk with the "mere movement of a finger", then I would wonder what your trouble is driving a manual with the indicator stalk on the left? As you remove your hand from the 9 or 10 O'clock position of the steering wheel to change your gears, you can flick the indicator in that movement... it's really not that hard.
Whereas, in the round-a-bout situation, there is a shuffling of hands that is required if the indicator is on the right - whether a "wheel-feed-shuffle" to keep your right hand near the indicator stalk, or a shuffle between holding the steering wheel with left hand and then right hand to move between indicating and gear changing. This issue isn't experienced in left indicator cars, because you always just leave the right hand on the wheel....
As I said... being a manual driver, the indicator on the left is awesome. If I had a DSG, then I wouldn't care which side it was on.
Volkswagen Enthusiast
And that I can certainly agree with.
Volkswagen Fan
Sorry, but I disagree - the indicator is an annoyance because there are times when changing lanes when:
1. you come to a quick stop in laned traffic and you need to change lanes, ie, select 1st gear and put the indicators on quickly or you miss the gap and
2. when overtaking on country roads, where I need to downshift to a lower gear to overtake. I don't want to stay behind a slower car in 3rd or 4th, while waiting to overtake.
and as others have said, how many lhd cars have their indicators on the right hand side of the steering column. - VW isn't the only culprit though, the XR5 Focus, I test drove had the same issue.
Last edited by mfl; 27-09-2010 at 09:36 PM.
mk VI GTI, manual, reflex silver, basic
Super Moderator
VWwA Super Moderator
mfl, what is your left hand doing before you move it to the gear shifter to change gears?
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