Golf R vs WRX vs Evo vs Megane RS250

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Originally Posted by Buller_Scott

that shouldnt matter, though.

i mean, you have all of those creature comforts in a scirocco R which is FWD, and it spanked the evo 10, and simply murdered the STI, around tsukuba raceway.

this forum is funny. i've never seen so much bagging of VW's on any other forum. but i do find the chipped tiguan vs. golf R discussion to be rather interesting.

just a question, REXman- i'm genuinely really interested as ive never tracked my cars nor dragged them... you talk about CRAZY nissan silvias, for example, vs. moderately quick german cars like an M3.... yet over the quarter mile, according to your post, there's only 0.5 of a second in it.

and i've noticed this with other folk as well.... over a quarter mile, is it really a case that a ''worked'' 12.5 second japanese car will be considered BRUTALLY FAST, and yet a german car in close to stock trim, that's only half a second off the pace, will be considered ''quick enough"? for example, i've seen people talk about how brutal big V8's are, and how pathetic all VW's are by comparison...

yet on hsv forums, people are posting VZ HSV clubsport 13.6sec 0-400m times, and polo drivers with just chip/ dump pipe/ fmic are posting high 13's.... resulting in a whopping 0.2-0.3 seconds being the apparent difference between ''brutal V8 power/ acceleration" and "really quite slow, but a nice, comfortable all-round package".

cheers,

scott.

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Hey,

yeah i believe that a descent looking $20K japanese car that does a 11-12 sec 1/4 mile is quick. very quick for the road daily driver.

And 0.5 sec in a quarter mile is a big difference. a 13 and 13.5 for example.. are 2 very different times in drag racing.

Lastly, M3 = huge Coin Japanese fun box = Not so much coin

Cheers, Scott.

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Originally Posted by Buller_Scott

...and i've noticed this with other folk as well.... over a quarter mile, is it really a case that a ''worked'' 12.5 second japanese car will be considered BRUTALLY FAST, and yet a german car in close to stock trim, that's only half a second off the pace, will be considered ''quick enough"?

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A good mate of mine has an 11-second Skyline R32 GTR, and brutal is an excellent word to describe it. But it produces all that power relatively high in the rev range (it's running 20+psi with big aftermarket turbos), and doesn't really get into its stride until you've exceeded sane (road legal) speeds. The rest of the time, it feels immensely laggy and slow, and my stock GTI would walk away from it at lower speeds (assuming he's off boost and I have traction).

I'm not for a moment suggesting that all modded Japanese cars are this way - some are amazingly flexible, and huge fun (SR20DET being a great platform to work from) - but it's my observation that, often, mods made in an effort to bring big power gains and murder the standing quarter tend to come at the expense of low-end driveability. The VWs we're talking about are just so flexible and urgent down low as-is, I'm always impressed. They feel accessibly fast without being so quick that you must have a track to appreciate them - which, for me, is perfect.

priced for 42k for the Cup - 47k for the Trophee with Recaro sports front seats. Xenons are optional, can switch ESP of for track mode. 184kw. Yes bluetooth and I Pod connect is std.

Renault - HOME MEGANE R.S. 250 CUP

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Originally Posted by OilBurna

priced for 42k for the Cup - 47k for the Trophee with Recaro sports front seats. Xenons are optional, can switch ESP of for track mode. 184kw. Yes bluetooth and I Pod connect is std.

Renault - HOME MEGANE R.S. 250 CUP

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Jeez, i like the look of that and priced decently too.

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Originally Posted by Prodigy

Jeez, i like the look of that and a priced decently too.

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Ewww, looks like the HSV astra! But I do like the brakes etc. I think the R for the price it is and being the top performance model, should have a bit more attention given for items such as the brakes. Whether they work better or not, I'm not sure but a nice set of big calipers just finish a car off IMO.

PS, their spec sheet says Recaro's are also optional?

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Originally Posted by dave-

Ewww, looks like the HSV astra! But I do like the brakes etc. I think the R for the price it is and being the top performance model, should have a bit more attention given for items such as the brakes. Whether they work better or not, I'm not sure but a nice set of big calipers just finish a car off IMO.

PS, their spec sheet says Recaro's are also optional?

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It's not that bad, a lot better looking than the Astra..

I agree though Dave, the R would look hot with a nice set of big red Brembo's on it. The red callipers on the rex looked great.

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Originally Posted by Prodigy

It's not that bad, a lot better looking than the Astra..

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Not a hard feat hehe

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Originally Posted by Prodigy

the R would look hot with a nice set of big red Brembo's on it.

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Nah big silver ones!

Guys,
Contant AWD doesn't mean drive to all wheels all the time - it's subject to the differentials...
My 03 WRX: APS 210kw, Whiteline handling package including a performance oriented wheel alignment and standard differentials will given the wrong driver inputs...
spin the inside front wheel mid corner and not accelerate
power-on understeer...

A throttle lift, brake jab or delicate modulation can help depending on the situation...watch WRC footage to see how they manage mid corner understeer; you'll see the front suspension dip slightly...

Driving technique requires a late and abrupt turn under brakes to unsettle the rear to control understeer. This is tricky to get right because if turn in speed is sensitive - too slow and the weight transfer doesn't happen and poor drive, too late/fast and plough understeer past the apex corner over cooked

Both conditions are frustrating leaving a seemingly eternal wait for drive. Get it right though, and corner exit feels fantastic and fast...
In many regards a front driver requires the same technique and suffers the same limitations but, ultimately, cant deliver the 'I've been launched' feeling. IMO.

Mechanical correction for these conditions, Tight centre and front diff settings compromise daily driveability with tyre scrub during tight manovering. I've not been prepared to compromise to tune these behaviours out.

Electronic/electro-hydraulic smart diffs have become the accepted solution.

Haldex 4 is pre-emptive; electro-hydraulic pump primed and switches according to a variety of sensor inputs, namely throttle and is unlike earlier versions; differential speed primed.
The aftermarket controller resets the speed and amount of torque to te rear depending how fast (& far?) the throttle is modulated.

I don't agree with the AWD and/or Controller is only a benifit for track use, in fact I'd argue it has more application on the street where entry speed (commitment) can be lower where the grip and rear bias can be use to punch out of a corner.

I'm guessing the rear drive dis-engages when torque deminishes which ultimately, in theory could reduce braking performance but ESP/ABS will be overiding anyway so probably moot...

$60000 questions is what does a Stage 1/Haldex controller R drive like compared to an STI/EVO with smart differentials? No one is going to let me learn the balance of their car then explore it's/my limits...