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What question?
This is a discussion on peoples opinions of the GTI vs the R, there is no "Thread question" to be asked here.
If we took that view, most threads could be locked after a single page.
So I'm not locking the thread. If you or anyone else doesn't want to contribute, then don't.
Other people will come along and give their opinion if they feel the need to and there is no point them opening another thread to do it just because this one is locked.
In the November edition of Motor and there are two articles referencing Golf R, the first a compao to the new WRX STI mostly refering the AUto/DSG solutions and the second a summary of a 4 month trail of a 5 door R put through all conditions.. the outcome is no surprise but what I thought was a good final comment was the reference to the ongoing arguement surrounding the Golf R v GTI
"Back in September we asked if the R was better value than the GTI. Crunching Dollars against pace, perhaps not.But value isn't really the agenda for a range topping , fastest-Golf-ever with $10k of options ticked , now is it..?
Instead look at it this way : What other finely built 13 second-qucik, solid, quiet, dependable, roomy(for its class) and practicle German car that is fitted with leather, bi xenons, heated seats, multisetting dampers, reversing camera, , highbrow infotainment, and a partridge in a pear tree...is out there for $63K plus ORC?
For the hatch that wants to live a little, it actually lives a lot. And thats is kinda the point of the R. It looks bolder and sharper than the trapped-in-tradition GTI, and its interior design and feel is much richer. And it suggests its owner has a bit more imagination than the pragmatic, me-too GTI crowd."
Now these are the views of the journalist but I think even the proud GTI owners would have to admit there is a dimension to the R which this commentary appears to capture...
Yes but the R at this price with the value it presents is at the very risk of becoming the next "me too" Vheicle to have!
Silverfoxx - Always appreciate your level headedness!! :)
Transporter - You have a full inbox, I could not reply.
I apologise for my antagonizing behaviour, and will endeavour to grow up and act my age in future
-Dan
In response to the journalist above, most people buy a car in their budget. GTI best car in the mid 40K range. R best car in the mid 50k range. Suggesting imagination and pragmatisim are the deciding factors are just nonsense. If your budget is R territory buy an R if it's GTI buy a GTI. The same argument with WRX and STI and XR5 and Focus RS if you can afford the more expensive car get it. If you can't your still left with something pretty special so enjoy.
Touche...
When it comes to the R or the GTI, there's no wrong answer :)
In reference to the Top Gear Australia (TGA) Magazine “Long-Termer” Golf R that replaced their previous long-term GTI (see latest Oct issue). TGA went out of their way to put a manual GTI and manual Golf R back to back via the Royal National Park (RNP). The GTI did not have Dynamic Chassis Control in the TGA review – just standard suspension. TGA crew travelled the entire length of the RNP between Sydney and North Wollongong – this includes faster flowing southern sections of this route.
There are three important points to mention between TGA and our back to back drives:
(1) Our drive was only on a short challenging part of the RNP from North entry to the Boat Shed & return which is about 1/10th the distance of the RNP with very steep & winding low speed corners & unsettling features around corners that makes it a greater challenge – it separates the men from the boys when it comes to chassis tune;
(2) Both our Golf’s had DSG – imo DSG in the GTI appears to have firmer front end springs to compensate for the added weight of the DSG gearbox which improves handling but introduces a tad more understeer over the Manual GTI TGA used on their driver review (not sure about the MT Golf R in terms of spring rate);
(3) Ray and I went out of our way to compare Dynamic Chassis Control (DCC) equipped GTI and Golf R. Well, Ray would be going for a DSG with DCC in either GTI or Golf R.
I agree with the findings made in TGA that without DCC on Golf GTI and Golf R, the Golf R would be the pick for a drive on this route. I’d be going for the Golf R due to its firmer suspension, improved chassis control, better suspension bump absorbency offering a more fluid drive experience. The lighter weight of the GTI in concert with underdamped non-DCC standard suspension quickly shows its fallibilities in terms of suspension compliance and ride control in relative to the Golf R on these types of rugged roadways. This short route really does separate the men from the boys regarding suspension compliance and control. Ride height also plays a role as the GTI can never lose that higher spring travel feel, which detracts from chassis control to a degree. We encountered similar results to what TGA are claiming, with exception of their penchant for the Manual Transmission (MT).
MT is good for the southern flowing sections of the roadway, which is about 2/3rds of the route. The northern boat shed 6 km drive is more akin to a hill climb for the majority of the driver - the MT throw is too long and front springs too soft in the Manual GTI. The softer MT front springs only exacerbate the lack of chassis control in the GTI with standard suspension on this dynamically challenging route. So my opinion on manual gearbox as not being the pick as a driver vehicle differs from TGA advice to go with the manual trannie for an engaging drive. Stick with DSG for the hill climbs, I say.
The extra weight of the Golf R comes in handy for soaking up the bumps – whether they be small, medium or large compression hits. The GTI tends to bounce over these same bumps as described in our short “boat-shed’ test drive review - even with DCC in Sport, the GTI’s bounciness cannot be completely eliminated due to the lighter weight of the GTI and taller springs. The negative aspect of the lighter weight of the Golf GTI is detrimental to filtering out the small to medium roadway undulations, but a positive in the short, sharp and narrow twisties where less weight is a definite advantage in terms of motor vehicle agility – especially on initial turn-in and around the apex or when altering the vehicle trajectory mid corner. XDS also helps in a sterile kind of way. There is an important condition that has to be satisfied with the Golf GTI – that is that the DCC option must be ticked and DCC must be in ‘SPORT’ for the GTI to offer comparable ride & handling mix when pitched against the Golf R.
The differing weights of the GTI and Golf R are their strengths and weaknesses – the principle factor being type & quality of roadway traversed. RNP offers a variety of roadway types and conditions, so it likely that GTI with DCC in Sport will perform better in certain areas, the Golf R in other areas. We found that DCC in Sport in the GTI really improved the handling and ride control of the GTI chassis over a non-DCC standard GTI. TGA didn’t comment on the Golf GTI fitted with DCC or its different modes.
Further down into the park, where speed limits are higher and the roadway can be rougher in texture - the better balanced chassis, the firmer dampers/springs and extra weight of the Golf R will have the Golf R as the preferred drive as a Grand Tourer type of ride. At the end of the day – you as the driver have to decide if you want (1) Light and Nimble GTI; or (2) Controlled and Balanced Golf R.
Cheers
WJ
That stands to reason, generally if you spend more you get something better but it's not usually/always better value. It's good knowing you have the top of the line though, but always something better on the roads.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel
People should be happy with either and out there driving them instead of sitting on here too much ;).
There is also the matter of the law of diminishing returns. That said, you speak some good sense. :cool2:Quote:
Originally Posted by G-rig
That's right.. Even if it is the top of the line it is still based on the base model with a few extra bits.. will still be limited to the golf platform so funny watching all the snobbery when a 135i or S3 is still better ;). Agree not everyone wants to spend that much but where do you stop.Quote:
Originally Posted by hooba
Interesting post by Perth VW dealer Dermot. The GTI might be facing competition from the new Polo GTI as well. IMO the new Polo GTI looks better than the Golf GTI.
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f128...tml#post570637
With a better to weight ratio than the Golf GTI, I'm guessing it will be more fun to drive.