View Full Version : Permanent 12V supply to Power Socket
Have you ever wanted the cigarette lighter in the centre console to be permanently connected to the 12 Volt battery (instead of the current arrangement where the 12V supply is switched through the ignition key)? Well, I found-out from a post on Golfmk7.com that it's a real easy thing to do!
The process goes something like this (grateful acknowledgement to Westy23 for the original information):
Access the fuse board behind the Glove-box (you should know how to access the fuse-board in case a fuse needs to be replaced)
Open the Glove-box and empty any contents
Gently but firmly push-in and lift the two tabs shown on the diagram below and hold the Glove-box so as to allow it to SLOWLY drop. As the Glove-box lowers, take note of the small "slider-bar" which is attached to the left side of the Glove-box. Notice how the bar slides out of its receptacle (which looks like a wheel with a longitudinal square hole).
11250
Relocate Cigarette lighter fuse
[*=1]Locate the fuse in position #40 on the fuse-board. The correct fuse is on the lower right-hand corner of the fuse-board, It is yellow in colour and it has "20" embossed in white lettering on the top (meaning that it is a 20Amp fuse). See the picture below
[*=1]Remove the fuse and note that there are three contacts for this fuse position (which has the number "40" embossed on the black fuse board). The fuse that you just removed was connected to the lower and middle contacts.
[*=1]Replace the Yellow fuse but make sure that it is inserted so that it connects the upper and middle contacts on position 40
11251
Re-install the Glove-box
[*=1]Gently lift the Glove-box and make sure that the slider bar on the left side fits back into the square hole in its receptacle (see picture below)
[*=1]Carefully but forcibly push the Glove-box home against the resistance of the two catches
[*=1]Put-back all the Glove-box junk that absolutely has to be there!
[*=1]Fully close the Glove-box door
11252
giveway
13-08-2014, 03:28 PM
Does this do the same for the power socket in the hatch ?
donweather
13-08-2014, 04:07 PM
Both my Tiggy and Occy have permanent power to the 12v socket (ie no ignition key but 12v socket still works/charges).
Wonder why this isn't automatically the case with the Golfs?
Does this do the same for the power socket in the hatch ?
giveaway: Yes. Fuse position #40 shares the supply to both the in-cabin 12V socket and the 12V socket over the driver's side rear wheel-well (in the boot hatch). So the tweak will convert both sockets to permanent 12V supplies.
Both my Tiggy and Occy have permanent power to the 12v socket (ie no ignition key but 12v socket still works/charges).
Wonder why this isn't automatically the case with the Golfs?
donweather: I have never been able to understand any of the reasoning that the good VW burghers in Germany apply to their cars! But I suspect that there would be as many VW owners that prefer to have a switched supply to the sockets in their cars as those that prefer a permanent 12V supply. Mercifully, the tweak above will allow both preferences to be realised!
booba
13-08-2014, 06:09 PM
Love your work guys, will be doing this immediately.
Just remember that the cigarette lighter socket is powered with the ignition on for a reason.
If you insert the lighter element in and it gets stuck for any reason (e.g. there is a mismatch and the grip/release mechanism gets caught in the element), it will set the car on fire unless you can get to the battery with the appropriate spanner, or find and remove the fuse.
This is not so much of an issue for an accessory socket because there is not a mechanism to hold a lighter element in them.
The powering of the lighter socket with the ignition on or on accessory was part of an ADR until manufacturers agreed to make that operation standard. This reduced the amount of paperwork required to get compliance.
Just remember that the cigarette lighter socket is powered with the ignition on for a reason.
If you insert the lighter element in and it gets stuck for any reason (e.g. there is a mismatch and the grip/release mechanism gets caught in the element), it will set the car on fire unless you can get to the battery with the appropriate spanner, or find and remove the fuse.
This is not so much of an issue for an accessory socket because there is not a mechanism to hold a lighter element in them.
The powering of the lighter socket with the ignition on or on accessory was part of an ADR until manufacturers agreed to make that operation standard. This reduced the amount of paperwork required to get compliance.
Wai: you make a very good point! Without wishing to be too critical about your concern, I make the following observation:
A decision to proceed, or not with the tweak above is (as you correctly infer) ostensibly a consideration about risk management.
I suppose that it is entirely possible for a car's occupant to do the tweak because he/she is unable to light a ciggy when the car's ignition is off. Having implemented the change, I suppose also that it is possible that car's occupant can then initiate the 12V lighter sequence and then to leave the car before lighting his/her ciggy and then for the mechanism to get-stuck and then for the lighter failure to cause a flame ignition inside the cabin that results in a serious fire. I would certainly agree that the conflagration of this sequence of events would be catastrophic indeed and worthy of consideration!
But, the management of risk has to include the element of probably, else we would live in a society of paranoid, psychotic and action-less individuals (and I don't believe that we do). In regard to the example above, I would make the point (which is perhaps better described as an irony) that the driver's perception of the likelihood of the catastrophe should be compared to the likelihood of the risk to the driver's health from smoking! If the driver continues the habit, then the risk of an inadvertent fire from the tweak is inconsequential IMO.
The other thing about how we manage risk is our counterbalancing view of the advantages that will result from a particular decision. The tweak does offer some advantages to those who wish to use the 12v socket for purposes other than lighting ciggys!
Again, my intention in responding to your post is not to be critical, rather it is to put forward another view. But I can understand if others have a different view that enables them to make different decisions!
donweather
14-08-2014, 12:21 PM
Lighting Ciggys? None of my 12v sockets in either my Tiggy or Occy are cigarette lighters....they are purely a 12v source. Perhaps this is why VAG have decided to leave their 12v charging abilities always on, irrespective of the ignition status.
Do the Golfs still have a cigarette lighter in them?
Lighting Ciggys? None of my 12v sockets in either my Tiggy or Occy are cigarette lighters....they are purely a 12v source. Perhaps this is why VAG have decided to leave their 12v charging abilities always on, irrespective of the ignition status.
Do the Golfs still have a cigarette lighter in them?
Donweather: Hi Don?
No, the mk7 Golf is not supplied with actual "ciggy" lighters. The 12V sockets are supplied with a blank plastic plug for the in-cabin unit and a spring loaded flap in the hatch boot. These days it would be extremely un-PC to have car manufacturers promote smoking in their vehicles. You would have to go your local car parts shop to get a ridjy-dij ciggy lighter (I assume that you can still buy these). My reply to wai referred to ciggy lighters because I had understood that this was the item of concern in regards to my tweak. But as English is my second language, I could have been mistaken!
Lighting Ciggys? None of my 12v sockets in either my Tiggy or Occy are cigarette lighters....they are purely a 12v source. Perhaps this is why VAG have decided to leave their 12v charging abilities always on, irrespective of the ignition status.
Do the Golfs still have a cigarette lighter in them?
It's not whether you light a cigarette in them or not. It is whether there is the bi-metallic gripper that can grip a lighter. If the lighter element gets put in so that it incorrectly fits onto the gripper and gets stuck, then the only way to cut power before the fire starts is to find and remove the fuse, or get the appropriate spanner, get to the battery and disconnected it.
If you have just an accessory socket (no capability of holding in a lighter element), then you can do what you like as the accessory you plug in cannot get stuck.
I think the 12V outlets were run via the ignition switch in Mk 6 & 7 Golfs to avoid flat batteries and the consequent roadside service calls, not from any sense of altruism.
flight
14-08-2014, 04:50 PM
giveaway: Yes. Fuse position #40 shares the supply to both the in-cabin 12V socket and the 12V socket over the driver's side rear wheel-well (in the boot hatch). So the tweak will convert both sockets to permanent 12V supplies.
dv52 - I can't help wondering if any other functions can be similarly tweaked. For instance, if it were possible to reposition a fuse in order to deactivate the stop/start system that is hated by some owners. When deactivating the function by depressing the switch, the switch is illuminated by power from somewhere, so would applying power directly have the same effect and might this be achieved by moving a fuse? Your thoughts?
I think the 12V outlets were run via the ignition switch in Mk 6 & 7 Golfs to avoid flat batteries and the consequent roadside service calls, not from any sense of altruism.
This. If you left a battery powered refrigerated esky in the boot on a hot day you might have considerable trouble starting the car...
dv52 - I can't help wondering if any other functions can be similarly tweaked. For instance, if it were possible to reposition a fuse in order to deactivate the stop/start system that is hated by some owners. When deactivating the function by depressing the switch, the switch is illuminated by power from somewhere, so would applying power directly have the same effect and might this be achieved by moving a fuse? Your thoughts?
flight: I do like the way your brain works -but, that's all the hagiography that I intend to give! (only kidding)
Seriously, it would be great if such a thing were possible. The way that I envisage that the SS console button works is that instead of providing a fixed 12Volt supply to the appropriate on/off control mechanism, the switch provides a "leading edge" to the control mechanism (i.e the console switch provides an AC signal, rather than a DC supply). That's why (I think) that the car resets the status of SS to the off position each time that the ignition is turned-on. But, I admit that I'm just guessing.
If anyone can find that elusive "quick-fix" for disabling SS, then he/she will have my undying admiration (worth lots at the check-out desk at Coles/Woolworths)! But as I have implemented the VCDS tweak for SS, this annoying little VW feature has not been a problem.
This. If you left a battery powered refrigerated esky in the boot on a hot day you might have considerable trouble starting the car...
b c: I agree that those folk that intend to operate a high powered refrigerated esky for an extended length of time while the ignition is off should not do the tweak (or they should refrain from using the esky on a hot day)!
Guest001
14-08-2014, 06:56 PM
b c: I agree that those folk that intend to operate a high powered refrigerated esky for an extended length of time while the ignition is off should not do the tweak (or they should refrain from using the esky on a hot day)!
Eskys are for use on hot days so kind of ruins that argument.
You shouldn't be running a fridge of one of those circuits anyway as the current draw is mostly too high for the gauge of wire installed at factory.
I had an 8 Gauge wire running to the rear of my vehicle to run the 60L fridge I ran.
Always remembering that smart things in vehicles have to be engineered to cater for the lowest common denominator.
Just remember that the cigarette lighter socket is powered with the ignition on for a reason.
If you insert the lighter element in and it gets stuck for any reason (e.g. there is a mismatch and the grip/release mechanism gets caught in the element), it will set the car on fire unless you can get to the battery with the appropriate spanner, or find and remove the fuse.
This is not so much of an issue for an accessory socket because there is not a mechanism to hold a lighter element in them.
The powering of the lighter socket with the ignition on or on accessory was part of an ADR until manufacturers agreed to make that operation standard. This reduced the amount of paperwork required to get compliance.
Skoda Octavia has permanently powered lighter socket (drives me insane). Kind of blows your argument out of the water
Guest001
14-08-2014, 07:48 PM
Skoda Octavia has permanently powered lighter socket (drives me insane). Kind of blows your argument out of the water
Does it come with a lighter in it or is it just a power socket though
Very few cars these days actually supply a cancer stick igniter LOL
Neither of mine do and neither did the 4 rentals I had in USA.
None were Octavias though. 1 Hyundai Tucson (Ix35) 1 new Ford Escape (Kuga here) a crappy Fusion and an Audi A4
All only had power sockets.
flight
14-08-2014, 08:18 PM
flight: I do like the way your brain works -but, that's all the hagiography that I intend to give! (only kidding)
Seriously, it would be great if such a thing were possible. The way that I envisage that the SS console button works is that instead of providing a fixed 12Volt supply to the appropriate on/off control mechanism, the switch provides a "leading edge" to the control mechanism (i.e the console switch provides an AC signal, rather than a DC supply). That's why (I think) that the car resets the status of SS to the off position each time that the ignition is turned-on. But, I admit that I'm just guessing.
If anyone can find that elusive "quick-fix" for disabling SS, then he/she will have my undying admiration (worth lots at the check-out desk at Coles/Woolworths)! But as I have implemented the VCDS tweak for SS, this annoying little VW feature has not been a problem.
Sadly, I think you may be right dv52. There is probably some sort of silicon-embedded logic involved that cannot be bypassed by string or bailing wire, as in the old days. Anyway, we'll all keep looking for an answer. Somebody smarter than me may yet find a way and will earn our gratitude or perhaps canonisation :-)
Does it come with a lighter in it or is it just a power socket though
Very few cars these days actually supply a cancer stick igniter LOL
.
Yep genuine lighter. Czech car - they still like the cancer sticks in Europe - esp the old Eastern block & ex-Yugoslav countries.
The weird thing is that when I first got it I'm sure the 12v socket only stayed energised for 30 minutes after turning off the car then about 3 years back it became a 24/7 thing. Have asked & everyone says that the 30 mins was my imagination.
Eskys are for use on hot days so kind of ruins that argument.
You shouldn't be running a fridge of one of those circuits anyway as the current draw is mostly too high for the gauge of wire installed at factory.
I had an 8 Gauge wire running to the rear of my vehicle to run the 60L fridge I ran.
Always remembering that smart things in vehicles have to be engineered to cater for the lowest common denominator.
Hillbilly: As you can see from the pic in my tweak, the protecting element in the circuit is a 20Amp fuse. Whilst the same fuse appears to be used for both the in-cabin and hatch boot power sockets, I would think that the capacity of all of the upstream components (i.e. wiring, connectors, relay contacts etc.) in the ciggy lighter circuit would be rated at 20 Amps.
Assuming a fully charged battery with a nominal voltage of 14V, this means that an Esky attached to the power outlet could draw up to 280 Watts (or there abouts) and still not trip the fuse. I agree that this calculation assumes ideal conditions (i.e no voltage drop at the power socket outlet and ideal fuse characteristics), but it gives an indication of the permissible power-draw from this circuit. Personally, I'm not sure that I would be comfortable running this type of load in the boot of my car whilst the vehicle was left unattended and with the engine switched-off for any length of time. But, perhaps I'm being too conservative
Skoda Octavia has permanently powered lighter socket (drives me insane). Kind of blows your argument out of the water
So did my Caddy until I switched its supply to the ignition on circuit.
I approached the ACCC and Department of Infrastructure and Transport, and they were surprised given that the Polo were recalled around 2009 for just this. They had no interest in it now as it had been removed as an ADR after manufacturers had all agreed to have the cigarette lighter socket only active with the key in the ignition on, or accessory position.
But manufacturers do some absolutely stupid things. On some models, the cigarette lighter socket is on the horizontal part of the general tray where people are known to store loose change. A coin can drop into it and short the circuit. It might not blow the fuse, but can cause heat and a fire because it is close to impossible to get a coin out without dismantling the console.
Then look at the design of the high level brake light on the Caddy that is guaranteed to crack.
So, just because a manufacturer does something does not make it right.
. On some models, the cigarette lighter socket is on the horizontal part of the general tray where people are known to store loose change. A coin can drop into it and short the circuit. It might not blow the fuse, but can cause heat and a fire because it is close to impossible to get a coin out without dismantling the console
wai: I've never seen what happens when a coin is dropped into the ciggy lighter socket. But I would have thought that it would be an entirely unspectacular event given the conductivity of a metal coin (particularly if the coin has any silver, or copper in it)! Can't imagine why the element in the 20Amp fuse wouldn't disintegrate immediately given the low internal impedance of a lead acid battery. I agree though that things would get mighty interesting if this didn't happen - but why wouldn't it happen?
As for getting the coin out after things settled down, why wouldn't you put a dob of "blue-tack", or superglue on a nail, or pencil and simply lift the coin out? Depending on how the coin has fallen, it might even be possible to use a pair of long-nose pliers or tweezers to grab that little sucker - especially if you wanted to spend the coin later!
Guest001
15-08-2014, 07:41 AM
Hillbilly: As you can see from the pic in my tweak, the protecting element in the circuit is a 20Amp fuse. Whilst the same fuse appears to be used for both the in-cabin and hatch boot power sockets, I would think that the capacity of all of the upstream components (i.e. wiring, connectors, relay contacts etc.) in the ciggy lighter circuit would be rated at 20 Amps.
Assuming a fully charged battery with a nominal voltage of 14V, this means that an Esky attached to the power outlet could draw up to 280 Watts (or there abouts) and still not trip the fuse. I agree that this calculation assumes ideal conditions (i.e no voltage drop at the power socket outlet and ideal fuse characteristics), but it gives an indication of the permissible power-draw from this circuit. Personally, I'm not sure that I would be comfortable running this type of load in the boot of my car whilst the vehicle was left unattended and with the engine switched-off for any length of time. But, perhaps I'm being too conservative
You missed the point entirely.
The wiring if its too light can heat up and cause problems and also will cause voltage drop because of it being undersize.
An 8 gauge wire will do neither so is safe.
I ran a 60L Waeco fridge in my Landcruiser directly off the Aux battery through a RAPS 12 for a year with no troubles.
Off topic so I wont bother any more My eyes are getting tired
So, just because a manufacturer does something does not make it right.
I didn't say it was right.
You quoted the rules & regs. I gave an example of what reality was. The reality affects people/me more immediately than the rules & regs.
I work in an environment where there are written policies & procedures for almost everything. This doesn't necessarily mean that reality mirrors the paperwork.
You missed the point entirely.
The wiring if its too light can heat up and cause problems and also will cause voltage drop because of it being undersize.
An 8 gauge wire will do neither so is safe.
Off topic so I wont bother any more My eyes are getting tired
Hillbilly: Sorry for missing your point. Clearly I haven't been sufficiently articulate in my explanation - for which I apologise again.
I am aware of the problems that can ensue from undersized wiring (i.e. heating that results from I^2 R losses where the cross section of the conductor is too small and Volt drop at the point of common coupling). However, my assertion (which I didn't make with adequate clarity in my previous explanation) is that all the downstream components in the ciggy circuit are matched to the value of the protective fuse.
This means that VW's choice of wire gauge and connector size and every other element downstream of the fuse is purposely chosen to carry up to 20 Amps ( this being the long term carrying capacity). Sure there will be some heating of the conductor wire at 20Amps, but if the conductor is suitably sized (as it surely must be in the Golf) this is perfectly OK and the integrity of the covering insulation on the wire is not compromised at this load.
As you probably already know, determining the rating of a gauge of wire is far from a simple thing. I haven't looked at the gauge of wire that is used in the ciggy circuit, but a quick glance at my (very, very) old text books (i.e. Data for Engineers: Radio, Electronics, Computer and Communications) suggests that the current carrying capacity of an 8 AWG conductor is around 46 Amps in an enclosed space (73 Amps in free air). At this rating, and assuming that you retained the 20Amp fuse, I have to agree that the circuit would run much cooler. But without seeking to be antagonistic, I doubt whether it would be any safer- because the original wiring is already "safe" from a standards perspective!
Again, thank you for letting me expand on my previously badly written explanation and I hope that your tired eyes are fully rested.
The_Hawk
15-08-2014, 05:22 PM
My 2010 T5GP has a cigarette lighter in the front (next to the ashtray!) and it stays powered all the time.
There is also a removable ash try in the rear although the 12V socket there is only for power... haven't tested if that has permanent power or not since we rarely use it.
When I added in a dash cam I had to find and wire in some new switched power (which was a minor inconvenience) vs when I added a hard wired phone dock in the Golf I just used the already switched supply to the "lighter" circuit.
Those wacky Germans seems to make strange decisions at times. Is this because it's a "commercial vehicle"? Or for some other strange reasoning?? Has it changed in later models? Who knows.
Those wacky Germans seems to make strange decisions at times. Is this because it's a "commercial vehicle"? Or for some other strange reasoning?? Has it changed in later models? Who knows.
Hawk: I normally think of the good Burghers in Germany that design VWs in many ways, but oddly, never as "Wacky" or Zany, or Madcap, or Funny - don't know why. Maybe it's a stereotyping thing! But I do agree that there appears to be no rhyme-or-reason for their ciggy circuit decisions (and surely this must be one of the BIG decisions in the design of any car)!
Perhaps the answer has to do with whether the car is supplied with an actual ciggy lighter. That is, if a real ciggy lighter comes with the car, the circuit has a permanent 12 Volt supply - thereby allowing those with the habit to light-up any time. Otherwise, those cars that come with the blank black plastic plug, are wired through the ignition switch. How's that for a theory?
Matty4
16-07-2017, 09:44 AM
I know this is a bit of a thread mine, but does anyone know if this is possible on a MK5? My daughter has her dashcam plugged into the 12v outlet in the front and it's constant but I want to change it to ignition only.
Cheers.
Guest001
16-07-2017, 11:33 AM
I know this is a bit of a thread mine, but does anyone know if this is possible on a MK5? My daughter has her dashcam plugged into the 12v outlet in the front and it's constant but I want to change it to ignition only.
Cheers.
Buy an addafuse and fit in an ACC fuse in the fuseblock Put 5amp fuse in the top slot and away you go Have done several like that and all work perfectly I did the Passat differently as I used fuses from Jaycar with a wire already soldered on and fitted them in spare fuse slots that had power to them. You just wire a ciggy socket onto the wire off the fuse and an earth and plug the camera in Best to do it that way as some are only 5 v and have a stepdown V regulator in the plug. An hours work well spent and much neater than wires hanging down like you see all the time. Cant see any wires with my two except right at the cameras
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