Mk7 Stop/Start System - Issues and Questions

[Brew69]

For the last two days I have been unable to get this function to work. Usually it defaults to being on unless you turn it off. I have turned the switch on and off several times, driven with A/C on and off. I have driven the car often enougn to know I have a problem.*I know some of you hate this function but i'm a fan of it. Anyone else had problems with this feature?

[Transporter]

For the last two days I have been unable to get this function to work. Usually it defaults to being on unless you turn it off. I have turned the switch on and off several times, driven with A/C on and off. I have driven the car often enougn to know I have a problem.*I know some of you hate this function but i'm a fan of it. Anyone else had problems with this feature?

Man, many would pay for it, to get that to be switched off. :)

Sent from my GT-N8000

[kbuvw]

Out of interest, has it been hot where you are the last couple of days? I know with our Touareg, at one stage we thought it was broken, but then realised that it wasn't turning off because the aircon was running..

[Umai Naa!!]

Are you meeting all of the prerequisits for it to function?

[Brendan_A]

Maybe your battery isn't fully charged? It won't work if the car hasn't been driven for some time.

Is the car up to full operating temp?

[Idle]

Mine comes and goes — I suspect it's controlled by measuring the current draw and comparing it to the state of the battery.

It must always be certain of a restart — if the conditions are not met the engine continues to idle.

I've noticed that VW systems in general seem to maintain the battery at about half to two-thirds charge, which I've heard (though I've yet to see it proven) makes the battery last longer.

[Brew69]

Thanks for the replies. Yesterday I was driving for 90 minutes so I woild hope the battery got a good charge. It hasn't been warm in SA so I've only used tne air some of the time.i am going to VW on Monday to get the waste gate clip installed so if it's still not working I will get them to check it out.

[FactoryFit]

RTFM - Read the manual, there is a list of requirements that have to be met in order for the blue motion to work. If it's hot in the cabin, AC on high, heaters on high, battery voltage, moons of jupiter in alignment……...

[unrealshots]

could also be the DPF doing a regenerate if it's a diesel... our Passat doesn't turn off when it's regenerating...

[Brew69]

And just like that it's working again. 4 days of nothing and then it starts working again.

[AJD]

Mine comes and goes. On occasion I will attempt to turn it on when I am stuck in traffic and get a message on the dashboard "engine must be switched on" - it's no the end of my world but it is another of the frustrating issues with this car.

[Longy]

Just took an Audi A3 and and S3 out for a test drive, both cars had that function stop/start, we had the air-con running on both test drive, in the A3, it didn't stop the engine at the lights until we turned off the air-con, but was surprised when the S3 shut down the engine even though the air-con was on, that's a strange feeling given it was a manual, basically as soon as you engaged the clutch, the engine fired up again.

[pologti18t]

Mine comes and goes. On occasion I will attempt to turn it on when I am stuck in traffic and get a message on the dashboard "engine must be switched on" - it's no the end of my world but it is another of the frustrating issues with this car.

How is it an issue?... if it is working as intended?

[Guest001]

Mine comes and goes. On occasion I will attempt to turn it on when I am stuck in traffic and get a message on the dashboard "engine must be switched on" - it's no the end of my world but it is another of the frustrating issues with this car.

Please Explain


????? if motor is not running lift your foot off the brake a bit

My aircon is never turned off and the stop start works all the time.

If I don't want it to work I just don't hold the brake down so far and engine keeps on going.

Or if I want it to start before the lights change I just lift my foot a bit and we are ready to roll.

Just a matter of getting used to it.

[fopple]

If you go into the car menu on your centre console there is a screen that will tell you why the Start-Stop system isnt turning the car off.
Can't remember exactly where at the moment because I'm not near my car.

[DV52]

RTFM - Read the manual, there is a list of requirements that have to be met in order for the blue motion to work. If it's hot in the cabin, AC on high, heaters on high, battery voltage, moons of jupiter in alignment……...

FactoryFit is entirely correct. The VW manual quotes about 18 different preconditions that must be satisfied before the Start/Stop will work correctly (including the driver wearing his/her seat bealt). Unfortunatley in my case my Golf has always fullfilled every condition (damn!). I think Stop/Start is an accident waiting to happen - particularly when completing a RH turn against oncomming traffic.
The manual also explains when the car's air conditioning will interrupt the operation of ths Start/Stop function. For cars with climatatronic, the manual says that Start/Stop only operates when the vehicle is within the pre-set temperature range. Makes sense that when the inside temperature is at the preset setting, turning the engine off will have minimal effect on the airconditioner (and as well, the compressor load on the engine is smallest).

[Guest001]

When you stop, apply the brake only hard enough to hold car in position and usually engine wont stop.

Normally takes a firm application to make the stop start work

[AJD]

Sorry, obviously not clear in my explanation - I drive through the city every day, sometimes when the traffic is inching along I turn the stop/start off, when the traffic frees up, I turn it back on while the engine is running and I get the message "engine must be switched on". The stop/start does not reactivate until the ignition has been turned off with the key and then restarted. Undoubtedly I will be told it's a battery charge issue or the car is running the DPF process or even the air con.
As for the amount of brake pressure, when the stop/start on mine is operating, bringing the car to a stop on an incline is sufficient to have the engine switch off (no, the auto hold is not engaged).

[angelus512]

I'm sure you guys already know this but on the really off chance somebody doesn't you all know that putting your foot down "lightly" on the brake will bring the car to a stop and the engine will continue running.

Pushing harder will see the engine shut off. I just mention this because lots of people complain about BlueMotion but it can be controlled at will without having to turn the function off near the shifter.

[Guest001]

I'm sure you guys already know this but on the really off chance somebody doesn't you all know that putting your foot down "lightly" on the brake will bring the car to a stop and the engine will continue running.

Pushing harder will see the engine shut off. I just mention this because lots of people complain about BlueMotion but it can be controlled at will without having to turn the function off near the shifter.

Yes I do know that and have in fact mentioned it several times.

I use it like that when the delay is only short.

I did nearly get caught the other day when I lifted my foot to go and the car in front didn't . I hit the brake a second time and the engine shut off and it nearly caused the car behind to hit me cause then I couldn't take off fast enough.

Was a lesson learned not to anticipate what a half asleep driver didn't do.

The secret is to push hard enough to fully disengage the clutches and hold the car still.

Not hard enough and you may wear the clutches out.

[DV52]

Yes I do know that and have in fact mentioned it several times.

I use it like that when the delay is only short.

I did nearly get caught the other day when I lifted my foot to go and the car in front didn't . I hit the brake a second time and the engine shut off and it nearly caused the car behind to hit me cause then I couldn't take off fast enough.

Was a lesson learned not to anticipate what a half asleep driver didn't do.

The secret is to push hard enough to fully disengage the clutches and hold the car still.

Not hard enough and you may wear the clutches out.

Hillbilly: Sounds like you were lucky to avoid a nasty accident (this time)! I've also managed a near miss when completing a RH turn against oncomming traffic because of the delay in my car's response (due to the stop/start function). Scared the SH#t out of me!

My advice, get into the habbit of turning stop/start off every time that you turn the key. Life's too short to be second guessing the Golf's stop/start capabilities against another's driver's reaction time!

[Guest001]

Hillbilly: Sounds like you were lucky to avoid a nasty accident (this time)! I've also managed a near miss when completing a RH turn against oncomming traffic because of the delay in my car's response (due to the stop/start function). Scared the SH#t out of me!

My advice, get into the habbit of turning stop/start off every time that you turn the key. Life's too short to be second guessing the Golf's stop/start capabilities against another's driver's reaction time!

My take on that is learn how to drive it in the situation you are in. In my case it was my fault not the cars.

I don't, apart from that one instance have a problem with the stop/start and never turn it off As I said on a short stop just don't hold the pedal down so far. Works for me.

[angelus512]

Reading some responses in this thread is interseting. Sounds like u guys have wayyyy different experiences to me, although I will admit I stumbled across a USA forum to pickup this. Which for whatever reason I'm not sure you guys are noticing.

Assuming you drive a DSG model the stop start function can be controlled at will 100% of the time without having to turn it off. You come to a halt after braking and just apply small force to the brakes and the auto-hold will kick in and the green P will light up on your center dash. At this point u dont even need your feet on the brakes.

Should you wish to shutoff the engine just push the feet down harder. Done.

[Eaglehawk]

I think you're missing the point of the previous posts. It's situations where you NEED to brake heavily, but then you WANT to accelerate almost 0.5 secs later does the Stop/Start will almost kill you. That split second delay as the stop occurs, then restarts, will catch out most people out by surprise.

What you've described is what we all experience, but it's when you don't WANT it to activate but it does is when we have our close calls.

Like many others have said, we turn our Stop/Start system off when we start the car...and perhaps activate it when we know we are at a long wait intersection.

[DV52]

I think you're missing the point of the previous posts. It's situations where you NEED to brake heavily, but then you WANT to accelerate almost 0.5 secs later does the Stop/Start will almost kill you. That split second delay as the stop occurs, then restarts, will catch out most people out by surprise.

What you've described is what we all experience, but it's when you don't WANT it to activate but it does is when we have our close calls.

Like many others have said, we turn our Stop/Start system off when we start the car...and perhaps activate it when we know we are at a long wait intersection.

Eaglehawk: Eloquently said! Driving is a very unpredictable activity with many of the variables beyond the control of the driver. It's likley that most (if not all) of us will have no trouble at all with the stop/start function for 99% of the time. But that remaining 1% could be...... catoastophic.

Those that haven't yet had a close-call with the stop/start function have simply been luckier than those of us who have expressed some reservation with the facility (as a result of our near misses). Of course it could be argued that the reason for the near misses is just because we are worse drivers. I don't mind this conclusion, but I still believe that it is safer to turn-off the stop/start function.

[Eaglehawk]

I'd also like to add a positive reason for the stop/start system.

If it wasn't for it today, I might have been hit by a red light runner. The slight delay in the start meant I managed to stop before the collision would have occured. Who would have thought?

[jayburls]

My stop/start has a mind all of its own. Some days it works regulary and other days nothing. Under the Car status auto start/stop it says power usage is too high. I've tried all different scenario's a/c off/on, radio, media off/on with no real luck. It seemed to work more when i had less than half a tank of fuel.
I mentioned it while i did the 5000km inspection service and was told that nothing showed up abnormal with battery or computer diaginosis. Strangely though since that inspection it seems to work more often on a full tank of fuel and not less than half a tank.

Go figure? But there's nothing wrong. hmmmm

[Guest001]

My stop/start has a mind all of its own. Some days it works regulary and other days nothing. Under the Car status auto start/stop it says power usage is too high. I've tried all different scenario's a/c off/on, radio, media off/on with no real luck. It seemed to work more when i had less than half a tank of fuel.
I mentioned it while i did the 5000km inspection service and was told that nothing showed up abnormal with battery or computer diaginosis. Strangely though since that inspection it seems to work more often on a full tank of fuel and not less than half a tank.

Go figure? But there's nothing wrong. hmmmm

Well mine works without problems and the aircon and radio are always on. Have two crash cams going all the time as well and I don't know if the electric seats draw any . Fuel level makes no difference. It could be differ net weight on the brake pedal as if you don't hold it down reasonably hard it wont stop the engine. Weight of fuel shouldn't make the slightest difference .

[DV52]

My stop/start has a mind all of its own. Some days it works regulary and other days nothing. Under the Car status auto start/stop it says power usage is too high. I've tried all different scenario's a/c off/on, radio, media off/on with no real luck. It seemed to work more when i had less than half a tank of fuel.
I mentioned it while i did the 5000km inspection service and was told that nothing showed up abnormal with battery or computer diaginosis. Strangely though since that inspection it seems to work more often on a full tank of fuel and not less than half a tank.

Go figure? But there's nothing wrong. hmmmm

Jayburls: A couple of folk have mentioned a peculiar and inexplicable behavior in the operation of their stop/start function. Well, there is a way of finding out what's actually happening with stop/start in your car. In the mk VII, all the stuff that causes stop/start to not-operate is recorded in real-time on the "Car" menu. The good thing is that these records are easily accessible by the driver using the following steps (My apology if you already know this stuff);

1. With the car running, press the "Car" button on the side of the Discover Media panel.

2 The following screen should come-up. If you get this screen, press the area of the screen circled
.
.8493

.
.


If the screen above does not appear when the "Car" button is pressed, then you will probably get something like the following screen
.

8494
.

If this happens, press the "View" panel at the bottom LHS (you can just see it in the pic) and then press the "Vehicle Status" panel that I have circled (with a rectangle) . Then go to step 2 above

3. After Step 2, the following screen appears showing why stop/start is not working. What's great about this screen is that the entries update in real-time (well almost real time - it actually updates after a scanning period)!
.
.8495

For the sake of this post, and for the pic. in step 3, I deliberately didn't put-on my seat belt and I turned-on the air conditioner to demonstrate the stuff that can be recorded here. Notice the "little-man" symbol at the start of the last two entires -which means (I think) that these are human activated inhibitors.

The first entry "Power consumption is high" is interesting (notice, no "little-man" symbol). I think that this message is a result of the VCDS tweak that I implemented to disable stop/start (it's earlier-on in this thread). I'd would be interested if others who have tried the tweak get a similar message. If so, I'd welcome your view on why this message appears.

Incidentally, if you turn-off the Stop/Start function using the button on the center console, there is only one message on the screen in step 3 - which says something like "stop/start is deactivated".

Again, My apology if you already know this stuff

[Eaglehawk]

Sorry, obviously not clear in my explanation - I drive through the city every day, sometimes when the traffic is inching along I turn the stop/start off, when the traffic frees up, I turn it back on while the engine is running and I get the message "engine must be switched on". The stop/start does not reactivate until the ignition has been turned off with the key and then restarted.

Since learning to show the status of stop/start, I've been monitoring the status. The above happened to me the other day. (Engine must be switched on). It's not a killer, it does reset after ignition off/on. But it could explain why people are having issues with this feature.

The other one that seems to explain why it won't turn on is "steering angle is high". This one is interesting, because as previously discussed, people have had close calls at intersection, and this feature should disable stop/start when at intersections. I've got to do more testing to see how much angle is required to flag this status, and whether it's settable.

Thank you for pointing out this menu option! It's been fun seeing what is stopping it from working.

[jjr]

Hello, I am onto my second golf DSG 90TSI so I know the car well. This one has had a weird and dangerous problem since new with the start stop system and I was hoping you can help. I have searched for threads on this and only found ones that say occasionally the car will not switch off when stationary. I know and understand that. This problem is different. What happens is that in one in every 20 stops the engine will try to start but it does not have enough energy to start the car. Sometimes it would just stall and other times it will try to start, not start then try to restart itself multiple times. I took the car to VW at 3000km and they detected an unusually low voltage from the battery so they trickle charged it.
What worries me is that they admitted that the car may not start itself on the application of the gas pedal if the battery is low in voltage. So what happens to all us mk7 owners when all of our batteries start to die down in 3 years? Also when I said "wouldnt my driving over the last 3000km have charged the battery sufficiently from the alternator?" He said no because when the car is driving you are sucking energy out of the battery as you have things switched on. It didn't sound right to me.
The trickle charge from the dealer has not helped.
I cant tell you how many times I have tried to take off at the lights only to have the car stall on me. Then I have to put in park and restart. Meanwhile I get beeped at by angry motorists behind me.
I have tried it on flat, decline and incline starts. it still fails. and I have tried it with autohold on or off and it still stalls.
So with the autohold on, it will fail when you try to accelrate and with the autohold off it will stall when you release the foot break and again when it stalls it will try to restart itself and fail. This usually happens not straight away but after 15+ minutes of driving. Im not sure how I should approach this now as the car is not fit for purpose. I can remember to to turn the stop start off but I worry if my wife hops into it with the kids and tries to accelerate away from an intersection. This is a serious problem as a car is supposed to move when you step on the gas. It could end up as a life threatening situation.
The car is only 2 months old and for the for the first 2 months I turned off the stop start to assist with breaking the car in. Now that the car is run in I dont turn off the stop start button and am horrified to find out that the system is so hit and miss on my car. Id actually prefer it to stall at every stop so the dealer could see it but it only happens after 20 minutes of driving and usually when you really need your car to move for example in traffic. i love the car and its my second mk7 and 8th VW but its really scary in its current state.

[Nauend]

I've driven over 21000 kms in mine, using start/stop all the time, and not experienced this ever. Maybe a fault VW are not fixing for you?

[DV52]

Hello, I am onto my second golf DSG 90TSI so I know the car well...............

jjr: Wow- that seems like a real tricky problem! I've never encountered your particulare problem on my car, but are you aware that the mkVII tells you what's happening with the stop/start function in the "Start-stop system status" screen?

On the Comfortline, this screen appears on the composition media head. In essence, this screen samples various parts of the car and it shows in a series of simple reports why stop/start isn't working. The great thing about this screen is that the reports update in real time as circumstances in the car change.

The "Start-stop system status" screen won't fix your problem, but it may help you to understand what it is that's interfering with the operation of the SS facility. Just as a suggestion, why don't you drive with the screen showing and when the intermittent problem arises, take note of any new reports that appear. Hopefully, this should identify the offending area in the car. Good luck!!

oh.... if you aren't aware of how to access the screen, have a look at the following link:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f197/stop-start-not-working-92362-post1041607.html#post1041607

[TDIjeff]

If the alternator is any where as big as the 140amp units in my TDI then any drive in normal temperatures will charge the battery enough to allow " normal" use in under 1 hour. A dead flat batt takes up to 9 hours to fully charge when on a charger that is configured for the exact chemistry of the battery. You have enough hours to indicate a problem with the car AND the dealer !

[BFPO40]

9 months of driving a mk7 and not encountered any issues with start / stop.
I believe the system disables S/S when the battery is low, it should not stop at all.

You appear to have two faults, excessive battery drain and failure of the system to disable S/S under low battery conditions.

You can check the battery level by pressing and holding the 0/0 reset button above the steering wheel / below the MFD.
Hold it until it cycles through to battery level, it will show the % charge.

Personally, the car is a hazard and I would refuse it at the dealer, or at least drop it off, insist that they sort it and demand a loan car.

Good luck in getting it put right, you are definately not experiencing a normal mk7 Golf.

[jjr]

Thanks guys now I know how to articulate the problem better to vw " excessive battery drain and failure of the system to disable S/S under low battery conditions." could be nailing it on the head. I will go back to them. Also mine is the base model, not the comfort/highline so ill see if i can see that data on the display screen. I too have had an identical mk7 model prior for 7 months with no problems on that one. Also when they trickle charged it they did say to monitor it. My problem is that they don't seem to know how to fix it and I wanted to be armed with the right info before returning back. Its a problem that would not show in a short test drive from them but if one of them took the car home etc they would cop the problem.

[Snail Style]

Possible issue with the battery manager/sensor on the battery. Maybe just make sure it is plugged in and the terminals are tight to start off?

[Transporter]

I don't drive the car with the stop start technology, but when you leave the A/C switched "ON" shouldn't that automatically disable SS feature.
For sure it can't be that difficult to test the battery and the starting system.
Here is the hint, when you say it only happens after you drive for 20minutes, why don't you drive for the 20 minutes (warm up the car properly) and then go to the dealer? Let the technician drive your car for the 20minutes. :)

[Kesh]

Thanks guys now I know how to articulate the problem better to vw " excessive battery drain and failure of the system to disable S/S under low battery conditions." could be nailing it on the head. I will go back to them. Also mine is the base model, not the comfort/highline so ill see if i can see that data on the display screen. I too have had an identical mk7 model prior for 7 months with no problems on that one. Also when they trickle charged it they did say to monitor it. My problem is that they don't seem to know how to fix it and I wanted to be armed with the right info before returning back. Its a problem that would not show in a short test drive from them but if one of them took the car home etc they would cop the problem.

You can access the screen regardless of what Mk7 you own! Best of luck getting it fixed mate, it certainly isn't normal and certainly not acceptable for such a short ownership period.

I highly recommend recording the issue you're having with a camera (better if you have many to show that it's a reoccurring issue), as that will be nothing but solid evidence of the cars problem and there's absolutely no way they can deny it.

Some dealers will try to shift the responsibility to you, so make sure you push hard, and if nothing happens, complain and complain, and try other dealers too!

Given that this is a fairly major fault, I'm sure you will be fine :)

[jjr]

Thanks for the tips and I will post the outcome.

[flagger]

I don't drive the car with the stop start technology, but when you leave the A/C switched "ON" shouldn't that automatically disable SS feature.

Start/Stop works fine when AC is turned on. When the SS kicks in, the AC compressor will turn off, but the cabin fans will still run to circulate the air. Once the car starts up again, the AC compressor will start up again.

I too have a base 90TSI DSG, and only once has the SS system shown an error and failed to turn off the engine. Not sure why, it just showed an error occurred with the SS system on the LCD screen and in the SS section of the info unit. The next day it started working again, and has been fine for several thousand km's. Never has the engine failed to start up again once the engine has stopped in a SS situation.

As above, the alternator should always be keeping the battery topped up while you drive, provided you are not powering crazy things like a 10000W RMS stereo system.

[Midfielder]

Thnx so much jjr for your post. I am experiencing almost exactly the same problem. My Mk7 90tsi DSG was purchases in Feb an I had Start-stop problems from the beginning. On first memorable occasion I was on slight slope an car rolled back when car wouldn't restart. On another occasion my wife was driving and car wouldn't restart at roundabout. She had to manually restart. I also have experienced embarrassment of failure to restart in busy traffic annoying drivers behind. At first I thought it must be something I'm doing but it's not. Basically I would turn off the stop start with each drive and car otherwise works OK. I haven't experienced problem if the Auto hold is disabled and Stop start ON but rarely drive in this setting. Like you I usually experience the problem after extended driving (eg 20 mins into trip; ?? Worse with air conditioner working hard) and when I took it to VW mechanics last week they didn't reproduce (they appeared to drive for 15km on Odo) and couldn't find anything wrong. I'm really concerned about this problem and really don't know what to do - mechanic said they will email VW headquarters to see if others reporting but seems unaware of this as a common problem. I've wondered about the synthetic oil/mineral oils recall issue experienced in hot climates in 2013 but this apparently doesn't apply to my car. Would've to hear more if u find anything out

[DV52]

Start/Stop works fine when AC is turned on. When the SS kicks in, the AC compressor will turn off, but the cabin fans will still run to circulate the air. Once the car starts up again, the AC compressor will start up again.

flagger: I agree entirely with what you have said, but I think that it's the other way round. My observations of the way SS works is that once the AC compressor is operating (i.e. the set cabin temperature is not yet reached), SS will not turn-off. In a sense, SS is the "slave" of other functions (like AC compressor, seatbelt, steering wheel angle etc), rather than the "master" function.

But as far as kesh's problem is concerned, I agree that studying the discover media screen (watching the SS reports) is a good way to get the required info to resolve the issue. Transporter's suggestion of video-ing the screen shots when the fault occurrs is also worth considering (I think).

[Midfielder]

Folks, I've managed to video the stop start failure - I'm taking video to mechanic tomorrow and will try to reproduce problem while mechanic with me - I'm going to a different dealership who say they've seen similar problems

[flagger]

flagger: I agree entirely with what you have said, but I think that it's the other way round. My observations of the way SS works is that once the AC compressor is operating (i.e. the set cabin temperature is not yet reached), SS will not turn-off. In a sense, SS is the "slave" of other functions (like AC compressor, seatbelt, steering wheel angle etc), rather than the "master" function.

I have the basic aircon setup in my 90tsi, not climate control. I would have assumed that the SS programming would have been the same regardless of the aircon setup, but there you go. No wonder there is some confusion between car owners in regards to how SS works. :)

[Kesh]

So I was thinking recently about the use of stop start in my mk7 or indeed any car. While it's obvious that it will save quite a bit of fuel during long stops, there's no arguing that those short bursts of stops put a lot of strain on both the starter and the battery. One would think that the battery and starter would need to be replaced sooner because of the extra wear. My question is, would you be better off just turning start stop off in favour of using more fuel but saving the battery and motor?

[team_v]

The battery required for the stop start technology is an EFB (Enhanced flooded battery) and is significantly more expensive than the standard AGM battery.
Unless you are saving $50 in fuel each year due to stop start it wont be worth it.

[Midfielder]

Took Golf into dealership yesterday armed with video - this was reviewed by fireman who downloaded onto his computer. This really helped the interaction and he said he didn't need to drive the car. Says he emailed Sydney office HQ and they immediately told him to do a 'software update' and he was hopeful this would fix it. Prior to that he had all sorts of theories as to what the problem might be. I've since driven car perhaps 2 hrs in total without a problem but its early days. I'll keep u up to date

[lambertia]

Yes absolutely it will save money.

It is true that cars with stop/start have more expensive batteries. I think AGM if the car has blue motion as this includes charging during brake recovery. If for whatever reason you need to replace the battery in your car you're supposed to put the same battery type in. So in terms of start/stop the cost of the battery is not relevant. You're stuck with it because you bought the car.

I think that the only way stop/start could cause you to not save money is if in the life of the ownership of your car it causes you to replace the battery more often that you otherwise would. For example twice in five years rather than one. I'm no expert but I assume that because the battery is designed for stop/start that this is unlikely to be the case.

As covered elsewhere the starter/engine/battery is designed for all of this. Don't use it because you just don't like it but don't turn it off because you think it won't save money.

[vdubmotorworx]

The engine needs to be OFF for 8 seconds or more between stop starts to be fuel saving...VDUB....

[tigger73]

The problem that I see with the technology is that it is all designed for reduced fuel consumption on some standardised test which I think involves standing stationary for 4 minutes. So there is an instant win on the published fuel economy figures for the car when you implement stop/start.

Now the real question is does this have any long-term effects on the life of the parts. I guess we're really only going to find out the answer to that one in 3-5 years.

The early adopters of the technology are going to be the "test bunnies" for the rest of us. You would have thought the vehicle manufacturers would have done cycle testing on all the components to ensure they can perform 100,000 starts without failing (or whatever the magic number is). However we're probably only going to find out if there is an issue when this first round of cars start coming out of warranty.

On the flip side Toyota has been cycling their engines for close to 10 years in the Prius so it's not like it's new technology.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Saintza]

I only ever use stop/start when I stop at lights that I know and I know I'm going to be waiting half a minute or more, otherwise I don't bother due to concerns about extra wear on the starter etc. I think it's a good balance. I'm a manual driver btw, so it's probably a bit easier to stop/start as well.

[DV52]

Now the real question is does this have any long-term effects on the life of the parts. I guess we're really only going to find out the answer that one in 3-5 years.


Kesh's original question was about the fiscal benefits (if any) of blue motion and it's a good question. I reckon that a reasonable approach in answering this question is to ask why blue motion was put in the car in the first place. I may be wrong, but from what I have read about start-stop systems in general, I believe that the impetus for this facility was to meet Europe's environment regulations. This means I think that SS was never intended to "save money in the long run". Rather, the goal of stop start is to provide a low-cost solution for VW shareholders to comply with a particular Law which has the aim of benefiting the environment. Looked-at from this perspective, the question of whether SS saves money for the car owner (if this happens at all) was perhaps, a peripheral concern for the car's designers.

But IMO, an even more important issue than the one raised above is - having bought a car with SS installed, what's the best way to use bluemotion? For me, there can be only one correct answer; turn it off! Rather than thinking about the life of the constituent components of SS, a more pressing concern (IMO) is the how does SS affect the longevity of the car's occupants? I don't mind admitting that SS scares the sh*t out of me! Anyone who has experience the dread of having the car hesitate when completing a RH turn against oncoming traffic will know exactly what I mean. My suggestion (for what it's worth) is to do the VCDS tweak that you will find on VWW to permanently disable blue motion. Without wanting to be overly melodramatic, the worst outcome for any one who owns a car with SS is that their last regret is "I should have turned off SS"!

[tigger73]

Kesh's original question was about the fiscal benefits (if any) of blue motion and it's a good question. I reckon that a reasonable approach in answering this question is to ask why blue motion was put in the car in the first place. I may be wrong, but from what I have read about start-stop systems in general, I believe that the impetus for this facility was to meet Europe's environment regulations. This means I think that SS was never intended to "save money in the long run". Rather, the goal of stop start is to provide a low-cost solution for VW shareholders to comply with a particular Law which has the aim of benefiting the environment. Looked-at from this perspective, the question of whether SS saves money for the car owner (if this happens at all) was perhaps, a peripheral concern for the car's designers.

But IMO, an even more important issue than the one raised above is - having bought a car with SS installed, what's the best way to use bluemotion? For me, there can be only one correct answer; turn it off! Rather than thinking about the life of the constituent components of SS, a more pressing concern (IMO) is the how does SS affect the longevity of the car's occupants? I don't mind admitting that SS scares the sh*t out of me! Anyone who has experience the dread of having the car hesitate when completing a RH turn against oncoming traffic will know exactly what I mean. My suggestion (for what it's worth) is to do the VCDS tweak that you will find on VWW to permanently disable blue motion. Without wanting to be overly melodramatic, the worst outcome for any one who owns a car with SS is that their last regret is "I should have turned off SS"!

Agree it only has to cut out once at the "wrong" time/place to be a major safety issue.

You'll have to update your sig then:

Golf MkVII 103TSI (Highline) my13 (SS disabled)

[DV52]

Agree it only has to cut out once at the "wrong" time/place to be a major safety issue.

You'll have to update your sig then:

Golf MkVII 103TSI (Highline) my13 (SS disabled)
Tiger73; I want to remain a closet SS turner-off-er! Let's keep SS status on my car a secret- just between me and you!

[donweather]

Got driven home last night in a Prius taxi that had done 420,000km!!! All with stop start technology.

[BCK]

I know of no modern cars in my friends fleet with SS to have been at all mechanically effected by having it turned on.

Its been a long standing practice in Europe to turn off your motor in traffic jams or temporary stopped traffic situations, as well as it being illegal to keep your car idling in the aforementioned situations in some countries of Europe.

There are hybrids and various other cars with SS over the last 10+ years still going strong today with no complaint, I'm leaving mine turned on.

Already i I have noticed that it does indeed save me fuel, and increases my driving range, therefore saving money and also improving convenience of longer times between refills!

Also so I would hope that you wouldn't introduce a technology that can be harmful to longtime use of the car, that also can't be forced off by the user.

[buzuki]

they are fitted with heavier duty starter motors, im not sure about the flywheel/ring gear though

[2browndogs]

This is not really an issue if you have a manual. I can see how it could be an issue with DSG....

[Flipper]

Fifth Gear did a real world test using stop start and found a 10% fuel consumption improvement so work that out over a few years and the savings are pretty big.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8D6N981zo8

[Midfielder]

Over 4 weeks now since 'software upgrade' - no further problems with Stop-Start

[capad]

Hi I'm glad to find this thread..mine has exactly the same problem, the car stopped and then wouldn't restart in traffic. VW dealer cant find a problem and just asked me to take the car back.

Just bump up the thread to see if anyone else has the problem? I'm sick of having dramas with the car and subject myself to danger so plan to go to fair trading.

[Midfielder]

3 and half months since software upgrade an no further problems - I wrote to mechanic who performed (after advice from Sydney HQ) and he wasn't very specific on what was done - I told him of capad problem above and he said he needs to see what sort of 'flash' update he needs. I'm not sure about all this but perhaps some cars need re installation of software- or an upgrade

[Regbaon]

Hi
I have just picked up the Golf Comfortline Estate mk7 and while reading the manual on the Stop Start noted a warning.(That using the system over a long period of high outside temp can cause damage to the battery).So as we are getting into a hot summer here in Australia maybe we should turn it off.I believe the battery's are pretty expensive.

[Idle]

Constant stop-starts will damage any battery — ask any door-to-door van operator.

And yes, I've been one.

That's why many batteries only carry a three months guarantee in commercial use.

[Regbaon]

Hi Idle
Yes of course standard battery would deteriorate pretty quick.
The battery in the VW golf is supposedly designed to handle constant Stop-Start in traffic and at traffic lights but the cost of a new battery vs the saving of fuel,and as I'm a pensioner and plan my life outside heavy traffic times I think I'll turn it off.

[kryten2001]

Hi
I have just picked up the Golf Comfortline Estate mk7 and while reading the manual on the Stop Start noted a warning.(That using the system over a long period of high outside temp can cause damage to the battery).So as we are getting into a hot summer here in Australia maybe we should turn it off.I believe the battery's are pretty expensive.



Yeah turn that junk off, either on each start or permanently via coding.

Not just the battery but also think of your poor starter motor.

[Idle]

Hi Idle
Yes of course standard battery would deteriorate pretty quick.
The battery in the VW golf is supposedly designed to handle constant Stop-Start in traffic and at traffic lights but the cost of a new battery vs the saving of fuel,and as I'm a pensioner and plan my life outside heavy traffic times I think I'll turn it off.

I did find that fitting the biggest battery I could squeeze into a van extended the battery life, usually by about 50%, as I notice VW have done in my current Golf (Mk7 TDI.)

Presumably they've also beefed up the starter — my only recourse with the vans was to carry spares — but I've also noticed that the stop/start is erratic at best. I can queue at lights for five minutes and the diesel idles — then just a quick pause in traffic and it'll shut down, only to restart almost instantly.

In heavy traffic, sometimes I remember to turn it off, but so far it gives me the feeling that it'll last quite a while.

However, in a day's driving there are still nowhere near the number of starts those vans did (100 to 120 a day was normal, and in those days the electrics in Transits were nothing to write home about.)

[Regbaon]

Delete

[Regbaon]

I did find that fitting the biggest battery I could squeeze into a van extended the battery life, usually by about 50%, as I notice VW have done in my current Golf (Mk7 TDI.)

Presumably they've also beefed up the starter — my only recourse with the vans was to carry spares — but I've also noticed that the stop/start is erratic at best. I can queue at lights for five minutes and the diesel idles — then just a quick pause in traffic and it'll shut down, only to restart almost instantly.

In heavy traffic, sometimes I remember to turn it off, but so far it gives me the feeling that it'll last quite a while.

However, in a day's driving there are still nowhere near the number of starts those vans did (100 to 120 a day was normal, and in those days the electrics in Transits were nothing to write home about.)

I did parcel deliveries in a Transit van to homes in London many years ago,and I took a chance of leaving it running unless I went into a block of flats.

[Regbaon]

For the last two days I have been unable to get this function to work. Usually it defaults to being on unless you turn it off. I have turned the switch on and off several times, driven with A/C on and off. I have driven the car often enougn to know I have a problem.*I know some of you hate this function but i'm a fan of it. Anyone else had problems with this feature?

I note you live in Adelaide a pretty hot State in summer,so I think the warning on page 212 in the manual about damage to the battery when outside temps are high should be noted,that's why I decided to turn mine off.

[Moonee]

Had an interesting one the other day. Car had stopped with auto stop/start when all of a sudden it started up on its own. It was a cool day so the aircon was not running.


Speaking of aircon, is the aircon in the MK7 electric or at least capable of running independent of the engine? This is the first car I've owned where the aircon continues to run fine even with the engine off.

[Kesh]

Had an interesting one the other day. Car had stopped with auto stop/start when all of a sudden it started up on its own. It was a cool day so the aircon was not running.


Speaking of aircon, is the aircon in the MK7 electric or at least capable of running independent of the engine? This is the first car I've owned where the aircon continues to run fine even with the engine off.

Nah the AC compressor still runs off the engine belts. It'll stay cold for a little bit while it's clearing the pipes, then it'll slowly go back to being fresh air again. If you have it on a really slow fan speed, you might have some cold air in there for the whole duration the engine is off.

[jonoz]

Anyone else's stop-start seem to have become a little sluggish in engaging 1st gear after being stopped?

[lambertia]

Anyone else's stop-start seem to have become a little sluggish in engaging 1st gear after being stopped?
Yes. Sometimes in can take a couple of seconds and some times it engages the clutch resulting in an incredibly violent jolt forward.

[Lemonskin]

Anyone else had this? Popped up on my trip back from the south coast today. Remedied by turning the car off and on again but I hope it's not some underlying problem that will give me grief. http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2015/01/950b2d965b7f01d13222c92aeaa3b723-1.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DV52]

Anyone else had this? Popped up on my trip back from the south coast today. Remedied by turning the car off and on again but I hope it's not some underlying problem that will give me grief.



Lemonskin: Have you tried touching the area of the screen where the error message is displayed? I just wonder whether in doping so, you would get a better explanation of the fault.

[kevcol]

I presume most users turn their stop start system off at night due to the added load of the lights on the battery.
I also guess the batteries used are similar to "deep cycle" batteries used with solar panels that can be discharged deeper and more often than standard batteries which can tolerate only shallow cycles.
As an aside I wondered what VW regenerative braking was until I read it had nothing to do with the brakes but was just control of the alternator so it does not charge when accelerating.
The world desperately needs a replacement for lead acid battery technology.

[Eaglehawk]

I presume most users turn their stop start system off at night due to the added load of the lights on the battery.

A Despicable Me minion's "Whaaaahh?"

[DV52]

I presume most users turn their stop start system off at night due to the added load of the lights on the battery.
I also guess the batteries used are similar to "deep cycle" batteries used with solar panels that can be discharged deeper and more often than standard batteries which can tolerate only shallow cycles.
As an aside I wondered what VW regenerative braking was until I read it had nothing to do with the brakes but was just control of the alternator so it does not charge when accelerating.
The world desperately needs a replacement for lead acid attery technology.
keycol: The mk 7 uses what's called an EFB, (Enhanced Flooded Battery) which is a little different to the normal wet-cell batteries in cars (these days, these are mostly AGM, - Absorbent Gas Mat batteries) . If you pull-up the battery "cossie" and you look at the top of the battery, you should see the word "EFB" on the battery, (see pic)
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2015/01/9osUL5Wjpg1-1.jpg

EFBs are more suited to stop/start cars because they have better "Cycle Resistance" and they have better "Layer Resistance"

On a EFB the positive plate inside the battery is coated with an extra polyester fabric. According to VW's literature, "this gives the active battery mass additional grip on the plate". This increases "Cycle Resistance" which is the number of cycles of charge/discharge before the performance of the battery is compromised. In this way, the EFB is more compatible with Stop/Start because of the continuous cranking cycles.

The other feature of EFB is the use of passive mixing elements in the battery which allows a better electrolyte circulation. What this does is to better combat what's called "Battery Layer Resistance" which happens when the battery experiences severe discharge (this causes unequal acid concentrations to occur at different parts of the battery which results in the electrolyte being deposited on the plates - causing lowered battery performance.)

So, whilst I understand your concern about the additional load on the battery at night (this would normally be managed by the Battery/Alternator working together), I'm not sure that you actually need to switch-off S/S.

My view is that there are much better reasons to switch off S/S ALL THE TIME. I reckon that S/S is the most dangerous thing in the car. I disabled it long ago (VCDS tweak)

[turtle]

Had a problem with the SS system on my GTI PP ever since I've had it (about 6 months). Like other people on here have said, sometimes when you come to a stop the system won't work at it show an error of "Engine must be running for SS system to work". Sometimes cycling the shifter to Park then back to Drive cures the problem. The problem only happens every now and then. In fact its been fine for weeks then today it happened on my way home from work.
Any clues on what could be wrong with it? I mentioned it to the dealer when the car was there for an unrelated issue and they said they couldn't find any faults.

[firstvw]

MK7 DSG Comfortline, 30k on the speedo, just had my 24months service a month ago.

Driving with start/stop active. Car stops at traffic lights (or intersection) and engine turn off. Once ready to go I lift foot of brake and step on accelerator and the car auto restarts normally BUT in these few weeks the car tries to start but it does not start. So I have to put the gear back to P and restart manually. It has happened around 6 times already.

Is anyone having a similar problem ?

[dero]

Take it back to the dealer and get it fixed under warranty.

It could be a faulty starter motor.

[firstvw]

Just booked my car in for a look at the start/stop this week. Will update once...

[sillyboy]

Car takes alot longer to engage into 1st gear when I stopped on a slight uphill slope, is this normal?

I stopped using this S/S function after I found out some blown up turbos were cause by the S/S, I wish I can find someone in my area with VCDs to disable it.

[firstvw]

Update, after leaving my car there for a day, vw could not find any issues. Battery was tested, all firmware is up to date.

Funny thing was it did not happen all all on the way to the dealer or a few days afterwards. However it did happen once yesterday. I will leave it until it gets worst.

[Imolator]

Update, after leaving my car there for a day, vw could not find any issues. Battery was tested, all firmware is up to date.

Funny thing was it did not happen all all on the way to the dealer or a few days afterwards. However it did happen once yesterday. I will leave it until it gets worst.

I don't like the idea of using stop-start with Turbo engines, I'm probably being overly paranoid but I'd rather have oil flowing than worry about damage from heat soak.

I always turn mine off first thing, I will probably get it defaulted to off at first service.

Hope they sort your issue with it.

[DV52]

Update, after leaving my car there for a day, vw could not find any issues. Battery was tested, all firmware is up to date.

Funny thing was it did not happen all all on the way to the dealer or a few days afterwards. However it did happen once yesterday. I will leave it until it gets worst.

firstvw:Hi.
the next time that SS goes pear-shaped, why not have a look at the car's self reporting screen? Not sure if you are aware of this facility, but the discover media/pro has a screen that is dedicated to telling the driver why SS won't work. I wrote a post earier in this thread describing how to access the screen. You can find the post HERE (http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f197/mk7-stop-start-system-issues-questions-98518-post1041607.html#post1041607).

if you take a photo of the screen when next you have a problem with SS, you will have a good piece of information for the dealer when you go back for another visit

Don

[DV52]

I will probably get it defaulted to off at first service.

Imolator: Hi.
I will be delighted to be proven wrong, but I suspect that your friendly dealer service manager will not be able to set up SS to default to off. In fact, I doubt that your friendly dealer service manager will agree to change the factory settings for SS in any way - at all. This has been my experience with a number of friendly dealer service managers in regards to SS.
In the end, I dealt with the problem by buying a VCDS cable and doing the fix myself. It was one of my earliest tweaks - best change that I have made to the car! My mk7 doesn't default to off, I have disabled SS entirely from the vehicle.
Don

[Imolator]

Imolator: Hi.
I will be delighted to be proven wrong, but I suspect that your friendly dealer service manager will not be able to set up SS to default to off. In fact, I doubt that your friendly dealer service manager will agree to change the factory settings for SS in any way - at all. This has been my experience with a number of friendly dealer service managers in regards to SS.
In the end, I dealt with the problem by buying a VCDS cable and doing the fix myself. It was one of my earliest tweaks - best change that I have made to the car! My mk7 doesn't default to off, I have disabled SS entirely from the vehicle.
Don

If that is the case I will have to get a VCDS cable and do it myself. Thanks for the info!

[firstvw]

It happened a few more times these few weeks. I didn't get a chance to look at the cars diagnostic screen..it is in peak hour traffic and people are beeping me from behind :( or i am at a intersection.

What i have done now is borrowed a friends VCDS cable, and he help me disable the "SS".

[lambertia]

It happened a few more times these few weeks. I didn't get a chance to look at the cars diagnostic screen..it is in peak hour traffic and people are beeping me from behind :( or i am at a intersection.

What i have done now is borrowed a friends VCDS cable, and he help me disable the "SS".
I wonder if that's the right approach. Would you be better to get the issue fixed by vw and then turn it off?