Acceptable oil pressure and oil temperature at track days??

[Sirocco20348]

Hi everyone,

I am thinking about purchasing some gauges for my car to make sure I am not causing premature engine/turbo wear at track days.

What are acceptable limits in regards to..
1. Oil temperature
2. Oil pressure

For instance what is the maximum oil temperature recommended for 5w-30w full synthetic?

I found this graph on the nulon oil blog. But I am unsure how accurate it is, and it still doesn't identity a max limit. It does look like 75 degrees is where the oil reaches minimum viscosity.

[IMG] http://blog.nulon.com.au/uploads/2013/10/Temp-graph.jpg[ /IMG]

Also in regards to oil pressure what is acceptable? Should the pressure be constant at all times while the car is in motion on the track? I'm assuming when idling the pressure is a lot less?

Does anyone have any knowledge in regards to this topic?

Thanks.

[Martin]

Your MFD has oil temperature
It can be anywhere between 95 and 110 deg
On a track day you will see it reach 115~118 deg
I would not be keen to see it over ~120 deg

Oil pressure can be high when cold and then reduce
Oil pressure increases and decreases with RPM
At idle you would want more than 12psi
Start up could see 80+ psi
Normal running could be around 45~65 psi

[h100vw]

Your MFD has oil temperature
It can be anywhere between 95 and 110 deg
On a track day you will see it reach 115~118 deg
I would not be keen to see it over ~120 deg

Oil pressure can be high when cold and then reduce
Oil pressure increases and decreases with RPM
At idle you would want more than 12psi
Start up could see 80+ psi
Normal running could be around 45~65 psi

Oil temp isn't available on a MK4 in Australia that I have seen. It would normally follow the water temp most of the time.

Oil pressure needs to be over 21PSI to switch off the light when you start. Then there's a requirement for 40PSi at 2000 revs IIRC. I can look that up if you really need to know it. 80PSI should be an absolute maximum pressure, the relief valve should blow before that.

Oil pressure is related to engine speed so will constantly vary.

I'd definitely be keen to have the oil level on the top mark, rather than the bottom at the track. I doubt you'll have any problems in a basically std car with the std turbo.

The Squib bumped the water temp over 90 at QR last weekend, that's the first time I have seen that. Longer straights and a full 30 minutes probably contributed. He might need some cooling attention in the near future......

Gavin

[guile]

He might need some cooling attention in the near future......

Are you sure it's a boy, have you checked?

good info mate, something to keep an eye on at the track...

[Sirocco20348]

OK that is good to know.

A large majority of mk4s do not have the mfd. The oil pressure/temp gauge had to be plumbed into a blank port near the oil filter.

Sprint sessions are usually 15-20 mins anyway. So not too long.

I find water temps are rock solid 90 degrees all the time.

I always open my bonnet in the pits and let the engine run to cool down the turbo.

Gav if you could find out the specific details that would be great. When you find time of course. Where are you retrieving that info?

I'll give the gauges a rethink.

[Idle]

I also found that, once warmed up, VW water temps are 90 degrees all the time — until I fitted an external device, when I found they fluctuate quite a lot, but it just doesn't show on the dash unit, which appears to be not much more accurate than a warning light.

[Sirocco20348]

until I fitted an external device, when I found they fluctuate quite a lot

How much did it fluctuate for you? I remember logging coolant temp through vagcom and it really didn't fluctuate more than 1 degree.

[a239947]

I also found that, once warmed up, VW water temps are 90 degrees all the time — until I fitted an external device, when I found they fluctuate quite a lot, but it just doesn't show on the dash unit, which appears to be not much more accurate than a warning light.

They do this on purpose so they dont have every man and their dog coming into the dealership complaining about fluctuating guages!
The guages are designed to sit in the sweet spot and not move untill necessary. As you say they are more of a warning light as thats all you need on a road car but people think extra guages on the dash are fancy so they put them in for piece of mind.

this message thrown at you from the window of my flying Golf!

[Idle]

This was a Mk6 TDI103, the device was AutoPolar FIS, and the variation was, if memory serves me right, about 10 degrees — I've seen as high as 98C and the gauge still sat on 90.

Still have the Autopolar, but the Mk 6 is gone.

So far there's no sign of the device working on Mk 7 TDI110 — I suspect it never will.

[h100vw]

OK that is good to know.

Gav if you could find out the specific details that would be great. When you find time of course. Where are you retrieving that info?

I'll give the gauges a rethink.

I have a PDF of the VW manual for the Polo GTI. The guts of the motor are the same. You can realistically expect 10PSI per 1000 revs as a minimum closer to 15 in reality.

I will dig in teh manual tomorrow.

Gavin

[Sirocco20348]

(I don't have the bentleys that specifically mentions AGU, but the AEB is a similar DBC big port 1.8t)

However, in the Bentley guide for the AEB motor it specifies...
Oil pressure at idle (hot?) minimum 29psi, and range of 43-65psi @2000rpm (80deg Celsius).

From what I have read if oil pressure is greater than 100psi @ max rpm there is some concern.

[h100vw]

(I don't have the bentleys that specifically mentions AGU, but the AEB is a similar DBC big port 1.8t)

but in the Bentley guide for the AEB and ATW motors it specifies...
Oil pressure at idle (hot?) minimum 29psi, and range of 43-65psi @2000rpm (80deg Celsius).

From what I have read if you pushing greater than 100psi on full throttle there is some concern.

The oil pressure warning light should go off with pressure between 1.2 and 1.6 BAR. 2.7-4.5 BAR is normal at 80 degrees. At higher engine speeds pressure must not exceed 7BAR. Quoted from the BJX engine manual. There's a 12 BAR pressure relief in the oil pump.

Gavin

[Sirocco20348]

The oil pressure warning light should go off with pressure between 1.2 and 1.6 BAR. 2.7-4.5 BAR is normal at 80 degrees. At higher engine speeds pressure must not exceed 7BAR. Quoted from the BJX engine manual. There's a 12 BAR pressure relief in the oil pump.

Gavin

7bar is 101.5 psi.. brilliant. Thanks for that Gavin!

Further to this, I found this Russian document on volkswagen.msk.ru:
Volkswagen Golf IV - Bora 1998-2000: Petrol engine with two overhead camshafts (rus.) Repair of engines: AHW, AKQ, APE, AXP, ATN, AUS, AGN, AGU, AQA, ARZ (http://vwts.ru/engine/g4_engine2_rus_hy.zip)

Once translated, on the 2nd page (lucky for me) it mentions the lubrication requirements..

@ operating temperature
idle - 2.0 bar (29psi)
At 2000 rev / min: 3.0 - 4.5 bar (43psi - 65psi)

This matches the bentley information for the AEB and is very close to the BJK requirements posted by Gavin.