MK7 Golf R versus...

[WhiteJames]

GTI –v- R

The Vehicles:

One standard Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission versus an almost fully optioned Golf 7 R DSG with Leather and Driver Assist. 18” wheels for the GTI. 19” on the Golf 7 R.

The Route:

Vicinity of Sydney Airport, Mascot including La Peruse, comprising of roadways posted with 50 – 80kph speed limits.

[WhiteJames]

Golf R:

Wow … keyless entry with a silver stop/start button. As soon as I drive out of the dealership in the Golf 7 R and strike the first storm water manhole cover 150m down the roadway, I hear a loud thud into the cabin and some suspension clatter noise. The immediate effect on the primary high-speed compression damping in the Golf 7 R combined with the 19” wheel/tyre package shows the Golf 7 R suspension tune to be much stiffer than the Golf 7 GTI.

The Golf 7 R is so stiff, even with DCC as standard in AUS, that it is not far off what you would feel in a Golf riding on KW coilover suspension … not as firm as the aftermarket sports coilovers, but a very terse damping indeed, with a lot more suspension noise and clatter compared to the lighter GTI. The 19” wheel/tyres is only part of the problem; the main issue appears to be the firmer suspension tune in the Golf R.

Taking a couple of turns into nearby Foreshore Drive with the Golf 7 R DSG in ‘Drive’ mode has the R shifting into 5th gear in no time at all at 70kph. No different to the preceding MK5 R32 and MK6 R in this regard re: fuel saving measures. The steering in the Golf 7 R is very much like the GTI in weight and feel, but feels more direct as a result of the tighter suspension/chassis control of the R.

DCC Normal mode has the Golf 7 R bucking, bobbing and fidgeting over small undulations and ripples in the concrete roadway that are hard to detect with the naked eye. Again … the Golf R is almost like a GTI fitted with sports coilover suspension system, such is the difference in ride stiffness between the two Golf’s.

DCC Comfort suspension mode does notably reduce the secondary ride low-speed compression fidgeting, bobbing and incessant patter on the concrete roadway waves, but does not eliminate this sensation in the R. In Comfort mode, the suspension adds greater pliancy in the initial first 1 inch or so of suspension compression, before abruptly firming up to provide a terse, almost jarring raw ride comfort. The Golf 7 R is certainly hunkered down well and does not display the looseness or slack in suspension travel the GTI provides.

The firmness of the R, even on roadway expansion joints and series of patchwork bitumen, adversely affects both ride comfort and suspension NVH levels, which creates an audible clatter noise heading towards spring binding slapping that emanates into the cabin and is notable in the Golf R as it is absent in the 7 GTI. With the extra sporty suspension control comes a loss in NVH that is also associated with aftermarket suspension that tend to forsake NVH for chassis control & agility.

Putting the Golf 7 R into ‘Race’ mode only exacerbates this situation, leading me to believe that the Golf 7 R was designed primarily for smooth roadways, fast autobahn cruising and the racetrack. The perplexing issue is that the preceding MK6 Golf R always felt like it rode with more refinement and comfort due to its extra weight over both axles compared to the MK6 Golf GTI. The tables appear to reversed with the Golf 7 R –v- GTI in terms of ride comfort, with the GTI well out in front as a refined ride.

The extra sportiness of the Golf 7 R chassis tune does help the R mask the extra 130kgs of extra weight to a degree, but not completely and the more even balance front to rear can be felt on the street at public roadway speeds over the GTI. The Golf R chassis does not move around as much in terms of body roll, pitch or squat making for extra focus and directness in direction changes, but less playful than the less balance, softer and lighter GTI.

The engine in the Golf 7 R is a cracker, probably the biggest improvement when compared to the previous MK5 R32 and MK6 R (EA113) motors. The turbo lag in the 7 R has been notably reduced over the MK6 R, with greater linearity in power delivery from 2K onwards and upwards in the rev range.

The fuel metering is fantastic, with no notable peaks or troughs in the 7 R power supply, and feels close to the power deliver of the Golf 7 GTI than the previous MK6 Golf R. Previously, in the MK6 versions, the GTI and R motors were like chalk and cheese. The Golf 7 versions of the GTI and R are much closer in how they go about making their forward thrust, with the exception of the Golf R power-plant spinning up the rev range faster with greater ferocity.

The Golf 7 R under 2,000rpm when off boost around town does suffer from exhaust drone, which is likely to become annoying over the longer-term (i.e. 50-60kph in Drive DSG 5th gear). There is also a much greater whistle & whooshing sound from the turbine as it spools up throughout the rev range in the Golf 7 R, almost like someone has chipped a GTI with extra boost creating extra turbine & compression whooshing sounds … like the suspension … very aftermarket in sound and flavor. The Golf 7 R also manages to lose a lot of that Subaru Boxer Motor Warble sound so prevalent in the Golf 7 GTI.

The AWD grip of the Golf R is fantastic from standing start, even with light rain coming on and on a wet roadway, the Golf R just grips and goes. I could not detect any great advances in the Haldex controller over that of the MK6 Golf R, which was greatly improved over the earlier MKV R32. Getaways from stationary position in the Golf 7 R is drama free, the very firm suspension keeps the chassis very stable and AWD offers no histrionics in forward motion. Taking off seemed to be a bit of an anodyne experience in the Golf 7 R … fast? Yes. But fun? No. Just grip and go with little or no effort from the driver.

Negotiating corners in ‘Race’ mode provides the faint feel that torque vectoring is still working on the driver’s side to assist in the rotation of the Golf 7 R. The Golf 7 R has the GTI’s measure in keeping a tight line around corners and will ultimate fall into slight understeer with the front end starting to scrub and pushing wide every so slightly.

Heading back to the dealership on Botany Road near Sydney Airport has the Golf 7 R bucking, dipping, and bobbing up and down with chassis patter, which has me thinking that the Golf 7 R is not the ideal choice for a long interstate commute or for those that carry around their families. My regular trips from Sydney to the Gold Coast, Queensland would be testing the friendship in the Golf 7 R, especially on the B-grade roadway between Coffs Harbour and Ballina via Grafton in New South Wales.

The jury is out on the Golf 7 R body kit, black metal steering wheel spokes, but the leather interior and side bolstering appears to have improved over and above the previous MKV and MK6 Golfs.

In conclusion, I formed the opinion that the Golf 7 R is basically a better balanced Golf 7 GTI with almost aftermarket suspension tune fitted to the detriment of ride comfort, refinement and suspension NVH. The extra turbo boost whistle & whooshing sounds are akin to a boosted/chipped Golf 7 GTI, only with a lot more grip at lower speeds.

[WhiteJames]

GTI:

The basic standard Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission is about 130 kgs lighter than the Golf 7 R DSG, and it feels to be lighter in day to day driving. The lighter chassis is coupled with looser suspension providing additional slack in soaking roadway irregularities. At public roadway speeds, you are always cognizant of the greater front end weight bias and lighter rear end of the FWD Golf 7 GTI. The GTI rolls, dives and squats to a much greater degree than the Golf R, although this does not seem to hamper the GTI much in terms of understeer under steady state cornering with uniform throttle application due to the lighter overall weight of the Golf GTI.

The Golf 7 GTI lacks the R's immediacy in change of direction, with the softer tuned suspension making the similarly weighted steering more dominate to the point that the steering is sometimes waiting for the chassis to catch up when darting from corner to corner. At times, the steering in the GTI can feel sticky around and just off centre line, especially in ‘Sport’ setting. Likewise the throttle application when applying part throttle inputs in the GTI. This trait was not evident in the Golf 7 R, which feels to be free of these two tendencies in the GTI. The Golf 7 R’s tighter and sportier (and louder) chassis tune keeps abreast of the fast and direct Golf 7 variable steering rack as appears to be better matched to the faster steering rack of the Golf 7.

The less focussed softer suspension tune of the GTI does require the driver to work more vigorously to extract the best from the GTI, with ultimately less directness and less forward motion, but providing added driver engagement and fun factor. The Golf GTI rides much better and feels to be the refined choice, much less aftermarket in suspension tune when compared to the Golf 7 R.

Getaways from stationary position in the GTI is a mixed bag. Sometimes the front end hooks up fantastically; sometimes (about 2/3rds of the time) the front end is troubling the electronics.

In terms of suspension compliance and ride comfort:

All modes, whether it be DCC suspension Comfort, Normal or Sport ride better in the GTI than strictly ‘Comfort’ setting in the Golf 7 R. In this respect, the Golf 7 R has become more one dimensional, whereas the GTI manages to cover all bases effectively in terms of Ride Comfort –v- Sportiness compromise.

Putting the Golf 7 R into Normal or Race mode only makes the ride comfort a hell of a lot worse. I can see a lot of prospective Golf 7 R owners spending 90% of their time driving around in DCC Comfort mode, which in concert with the large 19” wheel/tyre package (what was VW AUS thinking when picking the 19” wheel as std fitment) will provide a harsher ride than the GTI owner running around in ‘Sport’ mode.

In terms of low speed handling, the GTI was put into ‘Sport’ mode and the ESP also put into ‘Sport’ mode to provide a direct comparison with the Golf 7 R in ‘Race’ mode (R does not have Sport mode apparently). Maintaining a tight line in the GTI will ultimately ask too much of the inside front wheel and have the GTI pushing wide under power in slow speed tight corners.

The Golf 7 R pushes wide only very slightly and manages to maintain much greater forward momentum, without any need for the driver to back out of the gas. The GTI will have the driver lifting off the loud pedal to tighten the line, slowing forward momentum out of slow speed tight turns. This is not so much an issue with the GTI once speeds rise and the lighter rear end coupled with the softer chassis tune can bring the rear end into play to greater effect than the stiffer chassis tune of the Golf R.

Upon return to the dealership, driving alone Botany Road, the GTI smothered the roadway irregularities and undulations to much greater effect than the Golf 7 R, so much so, the GTI felt like a Mercedes limousine compared to the Golf 7 R, which felt closer to a GTI fitted with a set of KW coilovers (KW coilovers do ride better than Bilstein coilovers imo).

The Golf GTI’s ability to soak up bumps and lack of suspension NVH is well and truly another notch or two above the harder riding and noisy Golf 7 R, so much so, that it had me thinking that the Golf 7 R was not greatly improved for ride comfort and NVH levels over the preceding MK6 Golf R or MKV Golf R32 for that matter.

[WhiteJames]

Conclusion:

The new Golf 7 R is fast and furious, with outstanding levels of AWD grip, a fast and audible linear turbo rush and whoosh to match, with a great deal of suspension control providing the direct focus that many will endear on a track day outing. These added benefits are at an expense of the GTI’s refinement, fun factor, accessible driver engagement, ride comfort, livability/usability in the real world and cabin NVH levels for suspension noise intrusion.

When comparing the preceding MK6 versions of the GTI –v- Golf R, the result was so damn close you could call it 50:50 even. The Golf 7 GTI –v- Golf 7 R review, albeit a short review drive, had me happy to hand back the keys to the Golf 7 R in lieu of the better riding basic spec Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission vehicle. And that was not taking consideration of the price disparity between the GTI and R.

The GTI has broadened its talents and appeal.

The Golf R has become more one dimensional. Whether that’s a good or bad thing is for each prospective owner to ponder.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Pics to follow: Page 24 - Post #518.

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 24 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com (http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863&page=24)

Standard GTI 18" wheels look best imo. PP GTI 19" wheels look terrible. Golf R 19" wheels look a bit fussy, offer less compliance and feel heavy compared to the 18" Standard GTI wheels.

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

GTI –v- R

The Vehicles:

One standard Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission versus an almost fully optioned Golf 7 R DSG with Leather and Driver Assist. 18” wheels for the GTI. 19” on the Golf 7 R.

The Route:

Vicinity of Sydney Airport, Mascot including La Peruse, comprising of roadways posted with 50 – 80kph speed limits.

Found em

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Long story short the base GTI is still the king. Who would have known James, who would have known? Mr consistency should be your screen name.

I'm glad you can distill all the facts from a twenty minute drive in city streets.

[Jimi]

Confirmation bias in action

[WhiteJames]

The dealership salesman warned me that the ride comfort in the new Golf 7 R is terse and that I would feel all the roadway irregularities & undulations, even in Comfort mode, coming from a Golf 7 GTI. Prior to the Golf 7 R DSG drive, I was bullish on the Manual Trans Golf 7 R, especially when compared to the PP GTI (DSG) in price and for driver engagement. After the drive in the Golf 7 R, I formed the opinion that I'd rather wait for the 'Carbon Edition' Golf 7 GTI, hopefully with Carbon Roof, Carbon Bonnet and Carbon Front Quarter Panels preferably being a PP GTI with Manual Transmission & 18" wheels … if they ever bring that type of vehicle into AUS. Having said that, the Audi S3 may offer an alternative chassis tune to the Golf 7 R, in addition to 18" wheel/tyre package. To me, the base Golf 7 GTI feels a more fluid handling & better riding vehicle, so long as your not too brutal with the loud pedal at very low speeds. To unlock the true benefits of the Golf 7 R, best to head to the Northern Territory or Race Track ... even then, the level of engagement is unlikely to overwhelmingly impress with torque vectoring on the 7 R.

WJ

[Alex31]

White James I love reading your reviews, detailed and well written.
Could I ask a favor and ask that you start a 8v S3 vs mk7 golf r thread?? Would be great to have a detailed comparison between the two.
As I am sure you are aware on the golf r thread the S3 vs golf R is a hot topic. :-)
Cheers Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paul_R]

White James I love reading your reviews, detailed and well written.
Could I ask a favor and ask that you start a 8v S3 vs mk7 golf r thread?? Would be great to have a detailed comparison between the two.
As I am sure you are aware on the golf r thread the S3 vs golf R is a hot topic. :-)
Cheers Alex

I second this!

[sameatworld]

White James I love reading your reviews, detailed and well written.
Could I ask a favor and ask that you start a 8v S3 vs mk7 golf r thread?? Would be great to have a detailed comparison between the two.
As I am sure you are aware on the golf r thread the S3 vs golf R is a hot topic. :-)
Cheers Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1

GTI vs R conclusion wasnt surprising...

I would personally get PP GTI over the new R (and over basic GTI). However such a shame that you can't get manual PP GTI.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[lenojd]

I second this!

Yes please!

[alebonau]

Yes please!

well am sure glad I never hung out waiting for the mk7 golf R

but yes …please…pretty please…white james do take a similarly priced s3 for the same drive. I for one would be very interested to hear what your impressions are :)

[Lemonskin]

If I had the money, I'd be going S3 over R. But I can only afford the GTI, which is still awesome. Nice comparo mate.

[WhiteJames]

The earlier link to the pics put up shows the difference between the GTI -v- PP GTI -v- R rear brake light clusters. Interesting to see that the Golf R brake lights are quite a bit darker than the PP GTI brake lights. All three vehicles are shown together in a couple of pics.

What didn’t surprise me with the Golf 7 R is that it is evident that the design of this type of vehicle suits the FWD Golf GTI, and lesser Golf range for that matter, as a FWD hatchback design from inception, with the Golf 7 R basically having extra AWD hardware & aggressive chassis and engine tunes as an after-thought.

What did surprise me was the amount of rawness that Volkswagen have tuned into the Golf 7 R. In particular, the turbo whoosh, and especially the suspension tune and lack of ride comfort. I was expecting a fast & very refined fast-hatchback. Instead, Volkswagen have produced a new generation Golf 7 R that is a bit raw in terms of engine sound and suspension tune. This brings the Golf 7 R closer to the harder core hot-hatches, notably the Renault Megane RS265.

With the preceding R32 and MK6 R, Volkswagen had pulled off that refined fast-hatchback theme perfectly. The Golf 7 R has that bit more rawness and edginess that is normally associated with aftermarket tuners that are always willing to forsake ride comfort, cabin NVH and extra turbine whistle that often comes with aftermarket products that do not have to meet OE specs for NVH. I’ve driven a few examples of the MK6 Golf R riding on 19” wheel/tyre package, but never experience the rawness and notably reduced ride comfort of R –v- GTI that the new Golf 7 R produces. The respective MK6 versions of the GTI –v- R were much closer in terms of ride comfort than the equivalent Golf 7 versions.

Another issue, perhaps not made explicitly earlier on, is that when accelerating in each Golf 7 vehicle from a standing start or rolling start, has the Golf 7 R tied down much more effectively, reducing the sensation of build forward thrust. In this respect, the Golf 7 R provided the sensation that is was slower than and less dramatic than the GTI in building speed; that is until you look at the speed-o-meter on the Golf 7 R.

The difference in torque between the two is not that great: 380Nm –v-350Nm between R –v- GTI … with R at 130 kgs weight disadvantage to lug around. The GTI, with its less focused & softer suspension tune, that causes the chassis to move around to a greater degree, was the Golf that always felt more urgent when pressing the loud pedal. I’m sure that the Golf R was the quicker of the two, but the GTI always felt more urgent and for day to day driving, the difference may not be as stark as official figures may suggest.

The Golf 7 R being so hunkered down and grippy, the Golf R would need a good deal of engine tuning to feel as urgent as the GTI for rolling responsiveness. On the other hand, you can tell that the GTI has been purposefully held back to aid FWD grip levels for a improved and cohesive overall package. I think this is evident in the sticky feeling throttle of the GTI and slower build up of power, but perhaps not torque. I cannot see the Golf 7 R winning any driver engagement accolades.

If only I had the time to conduct another Golf R –v- Audi S3 review of GTI –v- PP GTI review. I sent the review to Ray to read to see if my thoughts had any bearing on his decision to stick with the Golf 7 R as opposed to the GTI, GTI PP or Audi S3. He still sticking with an intent to move into a Golf 7 R well or fully optioned for around 57K … and why wouldn’t he … as he only has a 20min commute to work just out of the Sutherland Shire, where the roadways are not so bad, doesn’t have a family to cart around, very rarely drives long trips interstate and has a preference for options and sporty big wheels, so the rawer, stiffer and terser ride of the Golf 7 R may not trouble Ray as much as some others. I guess the Golf 7 R will suit his tastes to a tee.

WJ

[Dutch77]

I think it's good that VW has provided some differentiation between the models.

The GTI is more than enough for most and I am definitely after the refinement aspects - that's why I'm not concerned by the ongoing media reports of the GTI being a little clinical compared to some rivals. Leave the hardcore stuff to the R for people who either want that, or intend to modify more heavily and need AWD to get that power down (or who just have to have the R because it's top of the range).

[AdamD]

What did surprise me was the amount of rawness that Volkswagen have tuned into the Golf 7 R. In particular, the turbo whoosh, and especially the suspension tune and lack of ride comfort. I was expecting a fast & very refined fast-hatchback. Instead, Volkswagen have produced a new generation Golf 7 R that is a bit raw in terms of engine sound and suspension tune. This brings the Golf 7 R closer to the harder core hot-hatches, notably the Renault Megane RS265.

When you think about it, this decision by VW (to adjust the focus of the R somewhat) makes good sense from a product placement perspective. The GTI and (to a lesser extent) GTI PP both offer a refined everyman's performance hatch experience; if the R applied the same formula (as it did with the Mk6), there'd be less to differentiate the product in the range, and VW wouldn't have a fast Golf to appeal to those looking for a more hardcore performance offering. If you read the UK and European reviews of the car, it's been very well received in its new guise - especially considering the generally-better quality of their road surfaces where a harsh ride is less of a problem.

This fits in well with VWA's new strategy with options as well. You can't spec a Mk7 R highly at all (still povvo-spec headunit and audio, no aesthetic add-ons, no better leather, etc etc), which likely suits the target market and the car's more singular focus.

Bear in mind the R will still be some way off the Megane in overall performance focus. The super-racy end of the market is a very limited one in terms of volumes, and while many are glad the RS265 exists, few are actually prepared to buy one and live with it every day - for good reason.

In Australia, we've got it good from a buying perspective - there is now the full compliment of cars available, and if we want something more akin to the previous R in terms of comfort, refinement and spec, there's the excellent (and bargain) Audi S3. Which is likely where my money will be going this time round.

[WhiteJames]

Wheels Magazine (May 14) Golf GTI -v- R review:

R: 8/10
PP GTI: 9/10
GTI: 9/10

Wheels article mirrors my views exactly re: GTI -v- R.

[WhiteJames]

Referring to the Wheels Magazine (May 2014) review of the R-v- PP GTI : It’s important to note that the journos are saying the same thing as I re: Golf R. That is that the Golf 7 R losses a lot of that fluid type of chassis balance and consequent driver involvement. Instead, the Golf R chassis is tied & hunkered down in a more race car like manner, making it more rough around the edges on the public roadway. Wheels are also indicating that perhaps the firm ride of the Golf R may be a bit too much for every day use on crap AUS roadways.

Bear in mind that Wheels Magazine is a bit more conservative in its approach to vehicle reviews, reflecting the mind-set of the average Joe, as opposed to other publications that focus on the hard core enthusiast. It may not surprise me that the harder core publications (EVO, Motor Mag) would give the GTI –v- R win to the R, but putting a low weight on the firm Golf R ride comfort & overlooking the raw edginess in chassis tune that feels to be aftermarket.

‘Kudos to those that have purchased a Golf GTI – PP’

Early reviews are saying that the GTI-PP is the pick of the three sporting Golf’s (GTI, GTI – PP and R) as the best compromise between performance –v- comfort and driver engagement. Pity it doesn’t come in a manual. Here’s a motoring.com.au review that gives the nod to the GTI – PP … makes me it bit envious in a way:

Volkswagen Golf GTI Performance 2014 Review - motoring.com.au (http://www.motoring.com.au/reviews/small-passenger/volkswagen/golf/volkswagen-golf-gti-performance-2014-review-42854)

It’s not all bad for the Golf R … it seems that the harder core hatchbacks become … morphing into super-fast hatchbacks, the less they inspire from a driver involvement and ride comfort perspective. They seem to fit the bill perfectly if you’re a rozzer chasing armed felons in stolen high performance vehicles. Here’s an autoexpress.co.uk review that has the Golf R on top of the Merc A45 AMG and Audi RS-Q3:

Volkswagen Golf R vs mega-hatch rivals | Auto Express (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/86633/volkswagen-golf-r-vs-mega-hatch-rivals)

WJ

[Jimi]

A few wrong facts in that first article (eg it suggests the PP is 15mm lower than the normal GTI which it isn't - they're both 15mm lower than a std golf)

[gandv]

GTI or Golf R … or something else?
A GTI or maybe an R has been on my mind for a while to replace my nice but un-exhilarating Comfortline FSI. We have a V6 CC my wife drives to work, which I really like. I like the refinement, its immediate smooth easy go, the heaps of features it has and good options. I want a new Golf or hatch to mirror the enjoyment I get from the CC. So I’ve been test driving:- a Merc A45 AMG; Merc A250; GTI, GTI-Performance; Golf R and an Audi S3, manual & DSG. In order of the drives: -

● Merc A45 AMG Auto (Fire breathing Dragon) – It’s quick and although it’s pricey, it has almost everything already standard equipment, even a sunroof, no options needed & circa $85K retail drive away. And in the boot it has its own compressor and tyre repair pack – which is confidence building for travelling at night, miles from anywhere – or not. With 3 on board, the suspension was very firm but at least it appeared to handle bumps without a severe jolt. Although there might be optional settings otherwise - I didn’t like the way some of the features worked, like the rear parking sensor lights don’t make a sound initially and you have to see them via the rear view mirror – bit hard when you want to look at the camera. Considering the dealership requires a $10,000 accident excess it was a worry. Anyway I digress.
Everything about the A45 drive was harsh, and loud. Pushing the A45, the noise between 1st and 2nd sounded like the exhaust had fallen off – it, however was “popping” from the exhaust. My GTI driver son was with me too, (and for the next four drives) we both came to a similar conclusion – Way too harsh and loud for normal around town enjoyment, but an interesting car.

● A GTI with leather: hard to find one with fabric seats; I’m not a fan of the tartan. The GTI was ok, but strangely disappointing – probably because of my inflated expectations. We (2 up) drove around Botany, sounds like the same route as you WhiteJames. I was hoping for a little more refinement, I thought the road noise was fairly loud. Also the traction from front wheel drive is a concern for me, particularly getting away in the wet, although the GTI traction is pretty impressive, all things considered. The leather in this one felt quite stiff.

● An Audi S3 manual – Red with S Performance pack. Again with 4 up, but this car felt good. A little more refined than the previous cars too, although at low revs and full throttle (only something you’d get with a manual) it wasn’t always super sweet. I thought the manual was nice, but not for me, but it will be my son’s choice for him. The manual gearbox was super nice; (if only you could buy a DSG with a clutch to have real manual experiences now and then). The Audi doesn’t have the inclusions that VW typically has in their basic specs, like adaptive dampers (Magnetic ride), a backseat arm rest (Load through facility) auto hold (Hold assist) as on the CC and lots more), so some care is needed to make sure you get what you want. S3 demonstrators are hard to find, it took 4 days to arrange to drive this one.

● A GTI-Performance: from a different dealer, also with leather. I’m not sure why but with relatively normal driving I thought this was perhaps a little better than the GTI. With 4 up, only a little laggy, it still felt light and nimble, and still felt good and had reasonable go with all that load. Still somewhat harsher than I’d like, but I accept, this is not how most people would judge it. Set to Comfort suspension it wasn’t bad at all around town.

● Merc A250. Although overpriced it does have good inclusions and good options at good prices, e.g. leather is a lot cheaper than on the Golfs’. This drive was in the damp, so traction was very ordinary and a lot of fuss and bother with wheel spin and axle tramp. No subtle quick get-a-ways. The twin clutch auto is just not up to VW standard. It doesn’t get it right, slow changes, holding gears too long etc. It felt quite a bit slower than the GTI too, but may not be. For some drivers, this car could be a good choice, but not for me.

● Audi S3 DSG, Red with S Performance pack. This car took about a week to arrange and was trucked out from Audi Australia. My wife and I took this one for a longer drive. I used “Individual” with comfort settings for suspension and motor noise, but auto or sport for everything else. It was generally impressive, only a little lag, and the feel and power were very addictive; the Quattro means it just goes; no fuss, no bother. It may not have the characteristics that some car journo’s rave about, but for enjoyable driving in normal situations, it was good. Including going around suburban streets and even without exceeding speed limits (well not by much), the car felt really responsive, and even with just a little squirts – it was fun. Still, not up to the CC refinement and more road noise than I’d like. I don’t like the pops between gear changes with the DSG, (even if everyone else does) but there you go. The steering wheel is very thick, and might take a while to get used to. The ride is OK with the 18” wheels. The optional B&O sound system sounds good, it’ san $1150 option. I quite liked this car. I just needed to check my perceptions of it against the R when it arrives.

● Golf R with Leather – 3 up. Finally Saturday 12th release date and a test drive, but not before the sales manager extolled its virtues – the 6R was good but this one is on a whole new level, he said. Sitting in the R is nice and the blue sill and dash lighting is a nice touch. Immediately into the drive - with the salesperson driving quietly out of the street, I thought the interior noise was disturbing. It didn’t get any better, and with slow driving I really felt the coarseness and the noise resonating inside the cabin. Taking off hard but not flooring it, from an inside lane with traffic, the car was particularly laggy and reticent – still I’m sure this in not a real reflection – it was a very new 200 km on the clock car that maybe hasn’t learnt yet. I wasn’t as so aware of the ride negatives, not because they weren’t there, more because I was stunned that this car was no where near what I wanted it to be and didn’t try anymore: and I completely accept WhiteJames’s comments. The May “Wheels” summary might be about right. More - I couldn’t find any seat tilt adjustment, and all “7R”s come with tinted rear windows, like it or not. The 5.8” screen really looks small, and the 19” wheels? I like the S3’s 18”, thanks.


Re the S3 versus a Golf - Price wise, the S3 is quite a bit dearer particularly when you add the options that generally VW supply as standard. But at least you do get good other good standard inclusions, which would bring the price of the R to a much closer figure – if you could option them on the R. This includes Nappa leather with electric adjustment including a seat tilt, but no memories, and a good quality large screen, with a nice rise action out of the dash (not a touch screen). If you get the $5000 S Performance Package it includes different quilted nappa leather S sport seats that loose the electric control, but still have a seat tilt.

Immediately after the R test drive, I ordered the S3

[Ohmang]

WhiteJames, after driving it how do you think it compares to a GTI on 18's with no adaptive chassis control. My MK6 is a bumpy ride and I am considering upgrading to the R.

Edit: Do you think the hard ride issue could be solved by putting some 18 inch wheels on it?

[WhiteJames]

gandv's review is noteworthy as sometimes the forums can be dominated by the harder core types with the sole objective of posting great stats rather than the overall whole package as an ownership proposition. In addition to gandv's noteworthy review:

I anticipate that the Manual Transmission Golf 7 R would be about 15-20 kgs lighter in the front end. Using the Golf GTI as an example: the front springs in the Manual Transmission Golf 7 R may be slightly softer, improving the ride comfort and throttle adjustability of the Golf 7 R with M-Trans. Wait and see I guess. I noted a similar thing between the M-Trans and DSG suspension tunes in the Golf 7 GTI, where the front springs in the M-Trans appear to be slightly softer, making the chassis a bit more fluid with added driver involvement. I'd still like to take the Golf 7 R on a Boat Shed run back to back with a Golf 7 GTI, as I think that the Golf 7 R may fare better around the hilly-tight-twisties on softer but better quality bitumen roadways.

I understand that the M'Trans in all Golf variants: GTI, Golf R and Audi S3, have longer gearing. This may affect the turbo spooling response time re: turbo lag. The DSG in both the Golf 7 GTI and 7 R does a much better job of masking the turbo lag at low revs in higher gears.

My sentiments are that the Golf 7 R, albeit a faster vehicle than the GTI, never felt that crisp or urgent in its responses compared to the lighter GTI. I think that gandv's review may of picked up on the fact that the Audi may feel more alert and crisp in it's acceleration and change of direction due to less weight, esp over the front end of the Audi S3 where most of the weight generally is. The Audi has alloy bonnet, front quarter panels, lower sub-frame and suspension strut cups I's told. The suspension in the Audi would therefore be tuned to reflect the lighter weight of the vehicle, while maintaining the same performance & agility as that of the Golf 7 R.

The Golf 7 R is fast, but always feels sluggish, like it over-tyred compared to the lighter & more darty Golf 7 GTI. The GTI is carrying a higher level of overall grip levels due to its lighter weight, whereas the Golf 7 has a larger tyre footprint, stiffer chassis and AWD to aid grip levels, which would help in the wet, but in the dry I think the lighter weight wins out for driver feel and outright steady state grip levels, although not balance front to rear in the GTI.

The added noise in the Golf 7 R comes from a combination of the larger diameter wheels & less tyre profile to a small degree, the shorter stiffer suspension more notably to a higher degree. I found that my VW Sports Driver Gear Springs in the MK6 GTI were providing the same tendency to add a bit of extra noise in their compression phase compared to the stock GTI springs.

Ironically, I cannot help but feel that maybe Volkswagen saved on some sound deadening in the Golf 7 R to save weight, creating a bit of extra noise into the cabin, whereas Audi S3 has the luxury of using more expensive lighter alloys to save weight. It is apparent to me, without driving the Audi S3, that Volkswagen had only a certain budget to improve the Golf 7 R in respect to the performance -v- refinement equation. I may well be incorrect in assuming this, and Volkswagen may just be targeting the market that caters for the STI and EVO X crowd, but reviews of the Merc A45 AMG seem to be similar re: lack of refinement due to harder core performance.

It is very difficult to get any Volkswagen on the older MKV and MK6 platform to ride well as the chassis wheelbase is shorter and the motor hangs out over the front further than the new Golf 7 MQB platform as the suspension tuning has to be firmer due to higher CoG of the smaller footprint. I had the opportunity to drive an early model Tiguan basic spec from Sutherland to City/Eastern Suburbs one day, and do the same route the other day in my Golf 7 GTI. The Golf 7 GTI on 18" wheels rode better than the Tiguan on small wheels and very large tyres … who would've guessed.

This reflects the improvement in the Golf 7 range ride comfort, with exception of the Golf 7 R, which is a weapon for performance stats and AWD grip levels, but a notch or two backwards in ride comfort and cabin NVH. The new Golf 7 R will no doubt decimate the previous MK6 Golf R on any type of roadway or track and you can definitely feel that the Golf 7 R is lighter & better balanced than the outgoing MK6 R.

The ride in the MK6 Golf GTI was always lumpy on rough roadways (with or without DCC) and did display incessant bobbing up and down with roadway patter, esp. on harder concrete roadways. The new Golf 7 GTI eliminated this MK6 trait, but the Golf 7 R reintroduces the patter in the quest for supreme suspension and chassis control.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

WhiteJames, after driving it how do you think it compares to a GTI on 18's with no adaptive chassis control. My MK6 is a bumpy ride and I am considering upgrading to the R. Edit: Do you think the hard ride issue could be solved by putting some 18 inch wheels on it?

I think that the Golf R is about the same or slightly less firm in terms of roadway patter i.e. bobbing up and down incessantly over small concrete waves & undulations … basically the secondary ride low speed compression damping. As stated before, the new MQB Golf 7 has made leaps & bounds in terms of improvement in the low speed secondary ride control due to larger chassis footprint and having the motor further rearwards in the chassis, requiring less aggressive damping/spring rates for a lower CoG imo.

On bigger primary compression hits i.e. deeper concrete expansion joints between concrete slabs, the Golf 7 R is definitely firmer than the preceding MK6 Golf GTI (with or without DCC). The Golf 7 R is sort of heading towards a MKV/MK6 Golf GTI fitted with coil overs, excellent chassis body control with short & sharp responses to roadway crevices, divots, potholes & patchwork … a bit like a blood-hound ferreting dipping and diving into all the small dips & holes in the roadway. In this respect: The preceding MK6 Golf GTI sits between the new Golf 7 GTI and Golf 7 R for ride comfort around town imo … with the MK6 Golf GTI being closer to the Golf 7 R than the 7 GTI. The advantage of the Golf 7 R is that it is much more direct to the point that its a potent machine for raw speed and cornering, just a bit disconnected & anodyne in terms of outright driver feel. It's always difficult to mask excess weight in any machine.

I seriously doubt that going down to 18" wheel/tyre combination will improve ride to any great degree. The 235mm tyre on the 19" wheel on the Golf 7 R does feel as if it gives a bit in cornering, rolling around the rim edges more than the 225mm tyre that is fitted to the GTI. I doubt 225mm on 18" wheel will provide any added ride comfort … most of the terse ride comfort is in the springs, dampers and sways bars on the Golf 7 R. The GTI - PP has to run much higher air pressure in the tyre apparently (41psi -v- 38psi) over the standard GTI. I imagine that a similar 18" tyre to the Std GTI with greater min load rating for the heavier Golf 7 R would be quite stiff (remember GTI carries 130kgs less on its tyres). Best to venture the Golf 7 R test drive on some rougher roadways … then drive the GTI-PP on the same route to satisfy yourself. If I was a travelling salesman driving around Sydney all-day every-day, I'd be going for the more comfort orientated GTI's.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

For you hard-core types: be in no rush to pay top-dollar for a newly released Golf 7 R. Something better with Carbon Fibre awaits in the not to distant future:

Volkswagen reveals Golf R400 mega-hatch | Autocar (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/beijing-motor-show/volkswagen-reveals-golf-r400-mega-hatch)

WJ

[Paul_R]

For you hard-core types: be in no rush to pay top-dollar for a newly released Golf 7 R. Something better with Carbon Fibre awaits in the not to distant future:

Volkswagen reveals Golf R400 mega-hatch | Autocar (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/beijing-motor-show/volkswagen-reveals-golf-r400-mega-hatch)

WJ

Very (pleasantly) surprised to see it has a manual transmission! Looks fantastic. Wonder how much it'll cost? I'll need to add $2000 to the price as I doubt Audi will give me my deposit back! I fear though it will be, dare I say it, too hard core for me.

[WhiteJames]

Wheels Magazine (May 2014) suggest that the Golf 7 R does not feel as crisp or communicative in the driver’s hands as that of the Golf GTI – PP and that a well driven PP –GTI would have no drama keeping pace with a Golf 7 R in dry conditions around demanding roadways.

Autoexpress.co.uk put the Seat Leon Cupra R –v- Golf 7 R around a short narrow closed track and find that the Seat Leon Cupra R is the faster and more engaging of the two, describing the Golf 7 R's lower speed change of direction as feeling 'lazy' … see autoexpress.co.uk video review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tgdtVhQzJM

Ironically: On a different day, autoexpress.co.uk also run a GTI – PP around the same track, albeit in manual form, and find that the GTI – PP clocks a time of about 0.16 sec slower than the Golf 7 R DSG. Interesting thing is that the tester reckons that he could go even quicker in the PP GTI if he could completely disable the ESC stability control. See autoexpress.co.uk video review of GTI – PP:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5hZwUuFX5A

My question is: If that ESC was fully defeat able in the PP - GTI, would the PP – GTI clock a faster time than the Golf 7 R? It may well be possible on a short narrow track, perhaps not a faster flowing open track with long straights. Even then, Wheels Quarter mile test of the Golf 7 R and GTI – PP has the PP – GTI seriously gaining on the Golf 7 R by the 400 metre market in terms of speed.

If I was to purchase the Golf 7 R, I’d be budgeting for a set of comforts/sports Koni FSD dampers to smooth out the ride comfort of the Golf R. Having DCC as standard fitment for the sports model Golf's makes adding aftermarket passive dampers that much more difficult as of lot of the DCC is intertwined with the driver’s central infortainment display. The standard Golf dampers are reasonable good for OE stuff, but the Koni FSD would another notch up for handing and quality feel as a premium aftermarket damper.

The perplexing thing I find, as does Wheels Magazine and Auto Express (UK) Magazine, is that there is little benefit to be gained in performance of the Golf 7 R in relation to the degradation of ride comfort on the Golf 7 R. Given the cheaper price of the PP – GTI and that fact that many will not completely disable ESC stability for public roadway use, makes a convincing argument for the PP – GTI being the ‘Real McCoy’ as the ultimate Sports Golf.

WJ

[CT69]

Or it would be, if it came in a manual.....

[WhiteJames]

Appears that the PP - GTI and Audi S3 may be the two dark horses in the Volkswagen-Audi sports hatchback line-up, with the PP - GTI punching above its weight and the Audi S3 looking like it offers a better blend of refinement/performance mix than the coarser, rawer and more edgy Golf R.

Here's a couple of reviews from car advice.com.au re: PP - GTI and Golf R.

GTI - PP: 9.0/10
R: 8.5/10

PP - GTI
Volkswagen Golf GTI Performance Review | CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/281439/volkswagen-golf-gti-performance-review/)

Golf R
2014 Volkswagen Golf R Review | CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/281182/2014-volkswagen-golf-r-review/)

Can't leave out the base model GTI Manual Trans version also with good reviews, this time from go auto.com:

STD GTI
2013 Volkswagen Golf GTI 5-dr hatch | GoAuto - Our Opinion (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/F73EDBA0B1BDF066CA257CAD0083CA12)

Thermal Dynamics:

I checked the oil temps towards the end of the Golf GTI -v- Golf R review around Mascot. The GTI was 109 degrees and the R was 110 degrees in oil temp. This was expected and is within the normal range of oil temps, as the Golf 7 second generation EA888 motor is designed to run with hotter oil temps to reduce internal friction loss … helps the motors rev cleaner and faster.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Volkswagen has done a sterling job of adding extra chassis rigidity in the new MQB Golf 7 platform. This allows Volkswagen the ability to really firm up the suspension on the Golf 7 R, with less effect to chassis integrity, twisting or torquing & with less effect on wheel/tyre integrity under cornering loads. The improvement in the Golf 7 range is tangible.

I believe that Volkswagen could only go so far with the earlier MK6 Golf platform in terms of a harder core sport suspension set-up due to potential for chassis flex (i.e. Ray adding 4mm and 6mm irrigation tubing inside his door frame rubbers).

Fitting a set of KW/H&R/Bilstein/Koni Sports coilovers and set of aftermarket sway bars will stiffen up the suspension tune on the MK6 Golf chassis, but not the overall suspension integrity in relation to the chassis stiffness that the new Golf 7 R MQB chassis has built into it, therefore never creating that tuff’as’nails chassis feeling of the Golf 7 range.

In other words, the stiffer chassis allows for more sporting suspension tune in the new Golf 7 R. Volkswagen had the ability to really up the ante in sporty suspension tune to compete with the harder core type of vehicles, WRX STI and EVO. It appears that Subaru has done a similar thing with the new STI from early reports re: aggressive suspension tune that enables the tyres to be worked harder with greater chassis integrity, faster turn-in into corners and less body roll & lean.

The issue I have with the Golf 7 R is that the dampers are stiffer, but lose a bit of premium feeling in the process. You can tell that that the stiffer dampers in the Golf 7 R are built to a price. This seems to be masked to a higher degree in the softer & lighter Golf GTI.

Additionally, the magnetic dampers in the Audi offer an alternative to the standard Volkswagen dampers (I imagine standard oil Boge-Sachs dampers). Just look at what Volvo did with the Polster S60 on Ohlins dampers, firm and relatively comfortable. Renault Sport have also done a reasonable job re: quality of damping hardware in the Megane RS265. This may be something to consider when shopping a Golf R –v- Audi S3 and may be a reason why more grown-ups are opting for the Audi.

While on this topic: The extra sporty & firm chassis tune of the Golf 7 R in contrast with the 7 GTI and MK6 R, the 7 R big wheel/tyre combo, turbine whistling aftermarket noises very audible within the cabin, and a bit of exhaust noise and drone in addition to suspension noise … I’m thinking that the Golf R is the perfect competitor to the new Subaru WRX STI … both are now comparable on price.

The next review I conduct may be for WJ’s old-chook: Holden Calais/Caprice –v- Audi A3 Sedan (pref. diesel).

Here’s another video review of the Golf R, which disagrees with WJ on ride comfort re: Golf 7 R. If only the tester drove out of that car park?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P89eQfdUVDs

WJ

[Dutch77]

The next review I conduct may be for WJ’s old-chook: Holden Calais/Caprice –v- Audi A3 Sedan

That's quite a variance WJ!

If it's size, performance (V8) and value for money the Calais is a winner and a pretty decent ride to boot. If those factors aren't relevant then the junior Audi could be a good buy.

I've spent some time behind the wheel of a (Walkinshaw fettled) SS Redline and must say its a shame Holden have to shut up shop, they really are a great proposition if that's what you're chasing.

I'm guessing size and the V8 aren't on the cards though - why not new Octavia VRS?

[DrWHO]

I've just returned from the Royal National Park where I spent most of the day driving a Mk7 GTI manual and a Mk7 R DSG. My head is swirling with all sorts of stuff, but, I think I'm going to go for the GTI and pocket the difference.

R:

I love the sound it makes as go through the gears (not so much the fake stuff), and power to all the wheels is noticeable on cornering some of the tight turns, which I did a few times in both cars. I like the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing that the R presents. I'm not a fan of the DSG/paddles so I'd go a manual (not available at the moment). I found the steering precise, braking very good and take-offs get the blood pumping. Yes, I'm a fan of the way it drives.


I don't like the ride - a bit harsh in my opinion for a daily driver. Also, NVH seemed obtrusive in a car with this dollar value. I'm wondering if the sunroof added to the problem and whether a solid roof would provide less noise. Turning circle is compromised by the AWD compared with the GTI.

GTI:

I found the cabin more comfortable than the R. I could live with this car daily. Not as quick, can't be driven as hard as the R (I'm not a professional driver), but wins in the bangs per buck segment. Car sounds good, NVH is much better sorted than in the R. The pre-programed settings seem to work better on the GTI than the R. The GTI had no suspension thumping and was softer than the R (as expected), and I think this work better for me. The GTI looks better than the R.

Both cars had bad placement of the satnav - too low down and way too small, but the touch controls were accurate and fast, no lag and just as well as you have to take your eyes off the road until you get used to button placement. I don't like the tiny quarter window in front of the wing mirrors - the Mk 6 looks better from both inside and outside around the door mirrors. I had no problems seeing the mode button but it is on the wrong side of the shifter...steering wheel access for the driver, why would you want a passenger to have access to the setup? Sloppy VW for not porting it for RHD. The gloss black trim inside is a mistake...dust and fingerprint magnet.

I did think the standard GTI headlights were way inferior to the R. They seemed quite dim - even dimmer than my 118. Side by side they looked quite yellowish, brand new versus 2.6 years old. They may not have been good examples. So the only option I'm considering for my GTI is the headlights.

As I'm not going to be doing track days or any modding I think the GTI is all the car I'll ever need (to paraphrase another car nut).

[WhiteJames]

Lucky you Dr Who … you get to drive both GTI and R around some fun & challenging roadways.

To answer the above questions:

My old-chook is a 68 y.o. retired widow with a Merc Diesel and V6 supercharged Commodore sedan with LSD. The issue with the diesel is not fuel economy primarily, but less need to frequently attend the service station for re-fills. My brother is pushing towards the Calais/Caprice for cheaper service, local parts availability and big car safety.

My sister and I are pushing her in the direction of the Audi A3 sedan as it’s the best looking small car around with unmatched perceived quality. Being small, it’s easy to park. The only issue I have with the Audi A3 sedan is lack of rear headroom. I’d like to talk the old-chook into an Sports Audi S3 sedan, but this may be a bit too hard-core for a 68 y.o. widow. Skoda brand doesn’t enter the picture country-city folk tend to be conservative in regard to marginal euro brands.


The issue of sunroof making interior (NVH) noise on the new golf R?

I doubt it. The Golf 7 R around Sydney Airport with no sunroof was very noisy compared to the GTI. I’m sure it’s the firmer suspension tune, firmer rubbers & suspension bushes, in addition to stiffer sway bars (i.e. a bit like adding the polyurethane suspension bushes).

Ironically, even though the Golf R has greater balance than the FWD GTI, the front end does tends to scrub a bit with understeer, more than the less F to R balanced GTI for lower speed cornering. I think the Golf R is set up for really fast corners, where you’d want a bit more understeer dialed into the chassis, not to mention the effect of the extra weight.

I’m very happy with my Manual Trans Golf 7 GTI. It was purchased with a view to driving around 7/10ths, give or take a tenth. Being the lightest Sporty Golf, the Standard Manual Trans Golf GTI makes for a fluid drive experience for 90% of the time during normal day-to-day driving duties.

Having said that: when deciding between GTI, PP-GTI or R, you’re giving up something in exchange for something else … there are no winners or losers whichever Sporty Golf you purchase, just a matter of budget and preference.

A bit of trivia from Autocar (NZ) Magazine:

Weights with full tank of juice:

Subaru WRX (new model): 1531kgs.
Golf GTI – PP DSG: 1438kgs.

Weight distribution front to rear:

WRX: 60.6/39.4%
GTI – PP: 62.1/37.9%

The Kiwi’s put each vehicle on a scale apparently.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Regarding the extra NVH in-cabin noise from the Golf R’s stiffer suspension tune. The same applies to the new Subaru WRX STI, with stiffer suspension tune creating extra rally-car type of noise emanating into the cabin. I imagine that Volkswagen is making no apologies for the firm Golf R ride either:

2014 Subaru WRX STI | GoAuto - Our Opinion (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/3EFCCBA5B0BDD6C7CA257CBD0027F254)


A little more road noise than is desirable was transmitted through the low-profile tyres, and the super-stiff suspension made for a very firm ride with authentic rally-style rattles and the sound of gravel spraying in the wheel-arches.

But complaining about a slightly uncomfortable ride in one of Subaru’s most aggressive and potent road cars is ineffectual, because the WRX STI makes no apologies for the features which make it such a rewarding drive.

Mitsubishi’s Lancer Evo is a marginally more aggressive drive with a flatter ride through tricky camber corners and its deep Recaro bucket seats are far more supportive than the STI’s, but the Evo is a whopping $56,990 and doesn’t have the same feel of quality of the STI so it is hardly a rival.

Meantime Volkswagen’s freshly launched Golf R is a sublime all-round machine, but is pricier and less powerful. For those chasing a little more refinement, however, it could be the go.


On the other hand, I have noticed, as stated in the earlier article, especially when driving uphill without any sporting intention, the FWD of the Golf 7 GTI can trouble the ESC on steep uphill drives. I think this is a combination of a lighter chassis, extra torque (350Nm) and more poignantly, that the slanted motor in the Golf 7 range sits further rearwards towards the front axle. This makes for dynamite handling, in addition to stiffer chassis, but may hinder FWD traction on steeper uphill climbs compared to the MK6 Golf GTI. It’s something I’ve noticed after several months of Golf 7 ownership. I think that the PP – GTI may offer a bit more drive in similar conditions as the LSD can shuffle drive front left to right & vice/versa if one wheel only loses traction.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Apparently AUS is not the only country having their Golf 7 R de-tuned. South Africa also receives the 206kW version of the Golf 7 R. Like the presenter in the following video, I'd go for the PP GTI as well. Having said that, I can see why some Volkswagen Dealers are saying that the Australian Spec PP - GTI is not selling as well as expected ... seems to be in that middle price range not too far off the Golf R base price ... and no manual transmission of course:

Volkswagen Golf 7 R | New car review - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf3IM5udAfs)

WJ

[WhiteJames]

I'm not going to argue that the Renaultsport Megane RS265 is the still the king of FWD hot hatches, not with this latest video surfacing, with a comparison between the Seat Cupra R 280 (PP-GTI to a lesser extent) -v- Megane RS265.

Based on the previous video comparison (Cupra R -v- Golf 7 R) where the Cupra R was quicker around a short & tight circuit, does this mean that the Renaultsport is still reasonably priced hot hatch king?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtelVhTYHjI

Speaking of harder-core, I mentioned earlier that I was pushing my neighbour Ray to put down 15K + his almost fully loaded ex-demo 2013 Golf MK6 R in exchange for a new Golf 7 R. Ray did enquire about the new Subaru STI, which came to 14K changeover with Golf MK6 R valued at 40K and Subaru STI at 54K drive away with premium pack included.

Looks like our small and fragmented market in AUS is about to hot up re: deals ... watch out Volkswagen.

WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

I recently drove the MK 7 R whilst my MKVI R was being serviced.. largely agree with most of the reviews here.. as I have a stage 1 tune I was disappointed with the R even though it was supposed to be a higher performance spec than mine. The lag felt pronounced and acceleration post the 2000 rpm was less than enthusiastic.

I found the steering much light and very numb. No matter how I try and can't warm to the new shape, I swear if you took the wheels off and launched it into space it would make an episode of buck rogers as a shuttle. Sticking that sensor in the middle of the grille has to be the worst design decision. Interior feels and look much the same, few extra lights and a smaller screen didn't make me want it..

The dealership offered me a 20k turn over price for my R for a config of leather and driving assist DSG.. tempting but for $2500 extended factory warranty was better investment.

[DrWHO]

... tempting but for $2500 extended factory warranty was better investment.

You know there is really no such thing. What you probably bought is an insurance policy from Allianz. Having read the PDS cover to cover there are a few clauses that give both the dealer and VW (Australia) more than enough room to knock back claims. A couple of clauses are so vague and Allianz's response to questions likewise, I chose not to take up their offer...especially since my quote was for $3900.

[SilvrFoxX]

Well it is underwritten by Allianz but all the documentation is VW it also came with 2 years roadside Vw service. The beat part is it is transferable . All insurance will have clauses even full factory warranty. My view was if the gearbox grenades that's 10 grand so $2500 for another 2 years made sense.. It only has 39k on the clock and has been a dream to own

[timetaker]

An interesting comparison.

Sports car comparison : Subaru WRX STI v Audi S3 v Volkswagen Golf R | CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/289717/sports-car-comparison-subaru-wrx-sti-v-audi-s3-v-volkswagen-golf-r/)

[whoalse]

Apologies for reviving an old thread which is very informative. Golf R has never been on my radar but with the Golf R Wagon coming out I certainly been reading more about R.

@WhiteJames, I'm currently running MkV GTI Pirelli which has stiffer suspension to standard GTI. I'm sure it's not as smooth-riding as newer GTIs. I'm wondering whether the R is much harsher than Pirelli.

R vs R Wagon - I'm sure VW will have to adapt the suspension for the extra 60kg at the rear. There's not many write up on R Wagon yet esp comparing south the R.

Not in the rush, but looking at R Wagon and CLA250 Shooting Brake. Having said that, my missus just suggested why not Mk7 Standard GTI due to the growth in interior space and boot.

Any input from you guys, esp @WhiteJames are much appreciated......

Sent from OnePlus One using Tapatalk

[GoGTI]

Apologies for reviving an old thread which is very informative. Golf R has never been on my radar but with the Golf R Wagon coming out I certainly been reading more about R.

@WhiteJames, I'm currently running MkV GTI Pirelli which has stiffer suspension to standard GTI. I'm sure it's not as smooth-riding as newer GTIs. I'm wondering whether the R is much harsher than Pirelli.
...


I'd like to know about this too. Currently have a mk5 GTI and would be keen to know how the mk7 R compares in ride and NVH. I'd like to upgrade but I don't think I'd like a downgrade in ride and comfort. I'd be happy if it's on par or better than the mk5. If worse, it might sway me to the PP GTI.

Thanks

[Mikey1]

I'd like to know about this too. Currently have a mk5 GTI and would be keen to know how the mk7 R compares in ride and NVH. I'd like to upgrade but I don't think I'd like a downgrade in ride and comfort. I'd be happy if it's on par or better than the mk5. If worse, it might sway me to the PP GTI.

Thanks
As an owner of both cars, I can say the difference in NVH and ride comfort are a revelation. Having DCC in the R allows you to set the dampers to Comfort setting, which I rarely deviate from, and the ride/handling mix offers the best compromise for normal everyday conditions. However, the difference in traction is the biggest winner for me, where the Mk5 GTI suferred from axle tramp whenever the front wheels lost grip, which was far too often. The grip in the R is huge, even in the wet.

[elcubano]

Hi All,

I am in the market for a newish Golf mk7 and i have no idea which one to choose. We (wife) already have a MKVI TDI Bluemotion and it is great, great fuel efficiency, so now i need to balance it out and get a performance model.

I have trawled through many a forum and i keep over thinking what i actually want.

In my mind when i am day dreaming whilst staring at a wall, it goes something like this, "i want the R, but do i need the R, I like the GTi, but might as well go the GTi PP, but if i go the GTi PP why not just go the R." then it goes round in circles, i am sure many of you have been at this cross roads.

I know it comes down to budget and personal preference, though I am just curious as to what you guys picked and why?

Has anyone been able to pick up an R for around the 50K mark in VIC? If i can get an R with leather and hopefully a moon roof for 50k i'd sign up.

Does anyone know which fiscal year VW Australia work on?
Has anyone done the maths on resale and at which year it is best to offload the car and get a new one.

Sorry about the random ad hoc questions but i'm trying to get this all out of my mind before i forget it all.

My main question is,

Which Golf did you purchase and why?

thanks dubbers!!!!!!

DAS AUTO

[Jimi]

It's hard to split them. I think it depends a bit on the transmission.

DSG, I think you can rule out the base GTI. If you are going to get a normal GTI DSG then the PP isn't much more.

Then it's a tough decision between the PP and R.

Manual there is a bigger split. It's the cheapest option in base GTI form. A manual R would be the goif you were keen on the PP but couldn't stomach the DSG. I occasionally think I should have got an R.

[bobcrusader]

I came from an AWD, so wanted AWD again. I also knew I would be tuning my car, and you quickly reach practical limits with FWD. The R having the bigger turbo and upgraded internals also means it should handle bigger power more reliably.

[elcubano]

i will definitely be going manual transmission as i get bored of auto.

isn't a manual these days an anti-theft benefit?

[elcubano]

i read somewhere that the AWD wasn't a true fulltime AWD system, power only gets directed to the back wheels as the car needs it. So part time AWD?

[bobcrusader]

Yes, part time AWD. So when I plant my foot on a wet day, it is AWD, not no-wheel-drive. But cruising down the highway, I'm not wasting petrol spinning an extra diff.

[jonoz]

R, it was that or an STI and since Subaru were lazy not updating the motor, R was just the clear decision.

We test drove everything we could, S3, Megane RS, all models of Golf - even a base 90TSI, WRX, Evo and the Golf was just hands down the car for us. In saying that, if I could have got the S3 with Performance Pack and in a Sedan for the $60k that the loaded R is I would've taken it.

I really wanted a Biposto but it just wasn't a practical car for everyday with small people in the near future.

[Ralfi]

i will definitely be going manual transmission as i get bored of auto.

isn't a manual these days an anti-theft benefit?

Start off with a test drive of the base model GTI & if you're happy, then no need to test anything else. It's either that or the R, which is a fair bump in price.

Manual these days is an anti-boring benefit. ;)


If you want a swift, comfortable hatch with economy and a low price tag then base GTI.

If you want something a little more hardcore and/or will look at tuning, save up some more pennies and go R.

And for me my decision for my latest acquisition was an absolute no-brainer, but each to their own.

S3. Very nice. Prices start at $60k though yeah? That's a fair bump in price compared to standard GTI. PP even. So I guess it's really only comparable to a Golf R. Though, the OP has indicated they're only interested in the VW Golf range.

[Dutch77]

If you want a swift, comfortable hatch with economy and a low price tag then base GTI.

If you want something a little more hardcore and/or will look at tuning, save up some more pennies and go R.

Given the ordinary resale on VWs buy the car that suits, when it suits - I can guarantee you'll lose heaps regardless. :)

And for me my decision for my latest acquisition was an absolute no-brainer, but each to their own.

[mattaus]

I went through this exact conundrum not more than 2 months ago. I settled for the GTI PP in base trim. Here are my reasons but your mileage may vary depending on your circumstances:


I was leasing, and the base price of each vehicle worked out to be around (GTI, PP, R): $44k, $47k, $52K.

At the end of the day I ruled out the standard GTI because for me, the PP upgrades are worth the extra coin. People always seem to focus on the better diff or how ugly the wheels are, but no one seems to mention the bigger brakes, the better tail lights, and the nicer interior. The bi-Xenons are obviously fantastic to have as well.

I contemplated adding the leather seating option because even though I live in QLD, the heated seats in my current car get used a lot in winter travelling to and from football training in the middle of winter. That being said the leather option is way over priced in my opinion and brings the car far too close to R territory.

The R would at the end of the day cost me a bit over $30 extra a week. I figured over a 3 year lease that'd cost me over $4k. Being a beginner car nut (:rolleyes:) I figured I could spend that extra coin doing things to the car. I have a laundry list of things I want to do, but we'll see how I go. $10 says I use the $4k on the Mrs :mad:

The R is a serious bit of kit. However whilst I do intend on doing track days, they will be few and far between. The type of spirited driving I will do will be the twisty stuff on the way up to Mt. Tamborine or down to the Currumbin Rock Pools; stuff the GTI handles really well, if not better than the R.

It's my daily driver. The GTI felt more comfortable to me. That's a big point.

It's a personal taste thing and I'm sure I'll get whipped for this, but the GTI and PP sh*t all over the R in the looks stakes. The R looks plain as day, inside and out. I even ordered my PP in white to accentuate the red pin stripe and the aggressive front bumper 'fins' (or whatever they are called) around the fog lights.

I like the added alcantara sides on the PP seating over the standard GTI interior. It's not leather, but it adds....something.

In summary, the GTI PP felt like better value for money than the standard GTI, whilst the R felt like it was a bit too much for my needs (not price, just too much of a car...if that makes sense lol).

Probably hasn't helped at all haha!

- Matt

EDIT: I should mention that I was never considering a manual. My first new car was a manual (Spec B Liberty) and my left knee isn't what it used to be (that's footy for you). I got a lot of pain driving in stop/start traffic every day with the manual. It's fine driving hard or the occasional long drive, but there was no way I was getting anything other than a DSG for my 40 minute commute to work. Plus I love flappy paddles - that way I can pretend to be driving a serious race car haha.

[Dutch77]

S3. Very nice. Prices start at $60k though yeah? That's a fair bump in price compared to standard GTI. PP even. So I guess it's really only comparable to a Golf R. Though, the OP has indicated they're only interested in the VW Golf range.

No idea where they start, but as its in my signature I figured I'd cover off on it.. the same way others have in this thread.

As per my original post I directly addressed the OP. Base GTI or R based on needs?

[naderpug]

Reading through the original write up has me slightly perplexed. I've modified cars of all sorts in the past (e.g. muscle cars, japanese turbos, euro screamers etc.) and the one thing that's a given with suspension tuning is that it will settle over time - usually within the first couple of thousand km's from new.

My point is that, by experience, the 'R' is no different to that rule. Mine has settled considerably to be much more compliant over the bumpy stuff in 'Comfort' and 'Normal' mode and is now not too dissimilar from the PP GTI for which a friend of mine owns and we compare often. I guess that does make it more for the enthusiast, knowing that it is in a much more detailed state of tune, and the de-tuned adjustments aren't applied (e.g. smaller diameter wheels, steering ratio adjustments, tire and shock absorber compromises etc.).

With power comes much more mechanical responsibility...and with the R's AWD and 300bhp...feeling that road and staying planted is mandatory. The GTI is nice, however, the 'R' is very special due to its capabilities when pushed. FWD understeer is simply not an issue as it is for the GTI...even with the PP. I think they have nailed it in the R, and the GTI is the much de-tuned effort by VW.

[Mayhem]

I went through this exact conundrum not more than 2 months ago. I settled for the GTI PP in base trim. Here are my reasons but your mileage may vary depending on your circumstances:


I was leasing, and the base price of each vehicle worked out to be around (GTI, PP, R): $44k, $47k, $52K.
At the end of the day I ruled out the standard GTI because for me, the PP upgrades are worth the extra coin. People always seem to focus on the better diff or how ugly the wheels are, but no one seems to mention the bigger brakes, the better tail lights, and the nicer interior. The bi-Xenons are obviously fantastic to have as well.
I contemplated adding the leather seating option because even though I live in QLD, the heated seats in my current car get used a lot in winter travelling to and from football training in the middle of winter. That being said the leather option is way over priced in my opinion and brings the car far too close to R territory.
The R would at the end of the day cost me a bit over $30 extra a week. I figured over a 3 year lease that'd cost me over $4k. Being a beginner car nut (:rolleyes:) I figured I could spend that extra coin doing things to the car. I have a laundry list of things I want to do, but we'll see how I go. $10 says I use the $4k on the Mrs :mad:
The R is a serious bit of kit. However whilst I do intend on doing track days, they will be few and far between. The type of spirited driving I will do will be the twisty stuff on the way up to Mt. Tamborine or down to the Currumbin Rock Pools; stuff the GTI handles really well, if not better than the R.
It's my daily driver. The GTI felt more comfortable to me. That's a big point.
It's a personal taste thing and I'm sure I'll get whipped for this, but the GTI and PP sh*t all over the R in the looks stakes. The R looks plain as day, inside and out. I even ordered my PP in white to accentuate the red pin stripe and the aggressive front bumper 'fins' (or whatever they are called) around the fog lights.
I like the added alcantara sides on the PP seating over the standard GTI interior. It's not leather, but it adds....something.

In summary, the GTI PP felt like better value for money than the standard GTI, whilst the R felt like it was a bit too much for my needs (not price, just too much of a car...if that makes sense lol).

Probably hasn't helped at all haha!

- Matt

EDIT: I should mention that I was never considering a manual. My first new car was a manual (Spec B Liberty) and my left knee isn't what it used to be (that's footy for you). I got a lot of pain driving in stop/start traffic every day with the manual. It's fine driving hard or the occasional long drive, but there was no way I was getting anything other than a DSG for my 40 minute commute to work. Plus I love flappy paddles - that way I can pretend to be driving a serious race car haha.

The R is too much car for you?!? Ooooooook then, different strokes for different folkes I guess. Doesn't matter how powerful and fast my car is, it's never enough. Always want more.

[mattaus]

The R is too much car for you?!? Ooooooook then, different strokes for different folkes I guess. Doesn't matter how powerful and fast my car is, it's never enough. Always want more.

Yup, as you say different strokes for different folks. It's as simple as that for me. The GTI was the more appropriate car given my specific set of circumstances. In my case this extends far beyond what it does on the road, but also into my plans going forward in my private life.

Deep lol.

[Shortstuff]

Mattaus I chose the GTI PP over the R for almost exactly those reasons. I also prefer the looks of the PP and just couldn't justify the extra $$ for the R in my mind.

[Fish Jetski]

I have seen a lot of responses on this topic that favor the GTI or the PP over the R. I disagree with those based on the bang for buck theory - but with one little difference. Give all 3 cars a stage 1 ECU tune - and then drive them again back to back. Firstly, additional power tends to overwhelm the FWD cars and in particular the non-LSD GTI. The R with the tune just makes sense and creates real separation from the other two due not only to AWD but also its larger turbo. Have a look at the APR website as a guide.

My logic for the R is simple - I didn't want decade old dash and two decades old turbo lag of STI, and am willing to put up with the odd front wheel wheelspin of the R instead, but in terms of a genuine sub-4.5sec 0-100 car that is small enough around town, under $60k inc tune it really makes sense over the 6.0sec GTI or PP.

Having owned over a dozen manual turbo subies, audi's, VWs and even an AHEM Octavia RS over the last ten years nothing comes close to a stage 1 mk7 R for the money - and if I had to I would pay double the difference over a GTI for it.

Different strokes...

[mattaus]

You are correct. The bang for buck part especially given the new pricing structure impacting MY16 cars (which was not in place when I ordered my PP).

There is one problem though - tuning. A lot of people, myself included, are not prepared to tune their cars and potentially void their warranty in the process. That is a big point. You cannot say a particular vehicle is a better proposition than another car, provided they are both modified from their base configuration.

From a pure performance perspective, the R is definitely the best bang for buck amongst it's VW stablemates, if not in it's price bracket full stop. But when it's not just about performance (which it is not for me and many other people) then saying a car is quicker makes it better is only half the story.

As we all keep saying, different strokes for different folks. Maybe we (or just me) should stop or it'll never end haha.

I look forward to being torn a new one off the line by an R in the very near future :)

[danielb_c]

I have a MY16 R on order at the moment.
When I was testing cars I tested the 228i M Sport & 235i, 86, CLA250, and S3 sedan.
While price is always a factor, it wasn't what ultimately determined my decision.
For me, getting into the R just felt natural. Even though I'm used to a Lancer VRX, which is entirely different, it felt like I'd been driving it for years. With the others I felt awkward, it took a bit to adjust. And it just held, and held and held in the corners! (I took the MY15 for a 24hr test).
I surprised myself when I went for the cheapest of the bunch (excl the 86).
Obviously others prefer different models, and that's fine. I didn't buy it to drag, I'd take handling and cornering speed any day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jake]

I went for the R, having owned a number of FPV's, turbo and supercharged + tons of V8 Holdens, 3 WRX's and a MK6 GTI I thought back over all the cars to ask myself what I enjoyed driving the most.
The manual MK6 GTI was my clear favourite and the only reason I sold it was because after an intake and APR tune the traction problems were annoying me (in standard form it was a bit to slow).
Now I can have my cake and eat it too..........
Once a few small warranty issues are rectified I'll be adding an intake and tune to the R.

[ReeceR]

Hi guys,

Long time lurker here, current owner of 3 door MKV GTI which must be sold due to impending arrival of baby. I need some help with the purchase decision, I keep going around in circles.

Here's the summary:



we've decided 3 doors is not practical with a baby
Golf body shape might be a bit tight with pram and all other baby paraphernalia. Manageable day to day, but trips would be a squeeze and may necessitate the purchase of roof pod. On the other hand, we live in the city and there's a lot more parking spaces that'll fit a Golf than will fit a Octavia or Golf R wagon - but we do have a garage, so parking daily is not much of an issue.
Therefore, on balance, we think a smallish wagon is the more practical body shape for us, but haven't discounted another (5 door) Golf.


The options:

1. Skoda Octavia RS wagon with all the fruit will cost around $45k. If I partly finance through Skoda, I'll get extended warranty to 5 years. Ticks all boxes for practicality, sporty enough, drives great (like a GTI with a big bum, funnily enough). Not an object of desire, but not a bad looking wagon at all. Terrible lack of exhaust note though, so would likely upgrade that.

However, the issue is that all indications are that I'll get pumped on depreciation if I need to sell in 3 years or so. As an indication, Skoda's own guaranteed minimum future value after 3 years is 29% of the purchase price - around $13,000!! Not exactly confidence-inspiring. Down $32k.

2. Golf R Wolfsburg Wagon with sunroof for around $65k. What's to be said? It's a weapon of a car. But it essentially does the same job, just faster and more prestigiously. $20k more is a huge amount of money, but if I choose to sell in 3 or so years, VW guarantee 40% minimum value. Down $39k.

I guess the sensible answer is either a) don't buy new or b) hold on to it for more than 3 years. But if faced with these two options, what would you choose? If the guaranteed future values are anything to go by, there's only $7k in it. But I get a sense the Skoda will hold up better than previous models, such is the popularity of the new Octavia RS.

Then there's always the option of squeezing our new family into a GTI PP with leather/sunroof for $49k or an R hatch with leather / sunroof for $55k. Not as practical and we may grow out of it, but can be done.


What do you think and why?


thanks!

[Timbo]

Just my 2¢, but the arrival of your first child is going to be a game-changer that, when it happens, will overshadow all thoughts you currently have about resale value. I take it you are going to be a one car household for a while, and so daily convenience for whoever is caring for ReeceR Jr. might be the priority, rather than ultimate performance.

With that in mind, I'd go for the space and convenience that meet those upcoming family needs and represents lowest outlay/best value to you now, rather that betting on resale values 3-5 years away.

[99_FGT]

To get close to those residuals you are needing to do some serious km's, as their guaranteed future value is just that.
The Occy's do hold their value, I was in the market recently and 2011 odd models with ~60k on the clock were listed for low-mid 20's
Similar R hatches were in the mid 30's
The R wagon - if sold in 3 years, would be a better proposition in my eye because it hasn't been around as long, and people wanting to get into them in the second hand market won't have the option of going for an older model.
The $20k difference at purchase time isn't to be sneezed at either though.

[Mi16 Man]

You'll be able to shave a few more $$ off that Octy price.

I had a RS Wagon specced up for $42k driveaway (Manual, Tech Pack, Comfort Pack + 18" Black Pack, metallic white).

As a father of three young kids, grab the Octy. Far more exciting than our load lugging Kluger! It will be replaced by a Octy when the eldest is out of the booster seat.


MY13 Kluger KX-S AWD / MY16 Polo GTI

[ReeceR]

Just my 2¢, but the arrival of your first child is going to be a game-changer that, when it happens, will overshadow all thoughts you currently have about resale value. I take it you are going to be a one car household for a while, and so daily convenience for whoever is caring for ReeceR Jr. might be the priority, rather than ultimate performance.

With that in mind, I'd go for the space and convenience that meet those upcoming family needs and represents lowest outlay/best value to you now, rather that betting on resale values 3-5 years away.


Well said Timbo, kinda summed it up there. Thanks.

[ReeceR]

To get close to those residuals you are needing to do some serious km's, as their guaranteed future value is just that.
The Occy's do hold their value, I was in the market recently and 2011 odd models with ~60k on the clock were listed for low-mid 20's
Similar R hatches were in the mid 30's
The R wagon - if sold in 3 years, would be a better proposition in my eye because it hasn't been around as long, and people wanting to get into them in the second hand market won't have the option of going for an older model.
The $20k difference at purchase time isn't to be sneezed at either though.

Yeah, I think that Skoda's forecasts are pretty pessimistic - but only time will tell.

[ReeceR]

You'll be able to shave a few more $$ off that Octy price.

I had a RS Wagon specced up for $42k driveaway (Manual, Tech Pack, Comfort Pack + 18" Black Pack, metallic white).

As a father of three young kids, grab the Octy. Far more exciting than our load lugging Kluger! It will be replaced by a Octy when the eldest is out of the booster seat.


MY13 Kluger KX-S AWD / MY16 Polo GTI


Mi16 Man, where did you have that car priced up? Are there any dealers that are keener for a deal than others?


All - the crowd has spoken - Octavia it is (for now at least)! Really appreciated all the thoughtful replies guys, thanks.

[themarvel2004]

Keep in mind that baby puke on fabric seats never really comes out... ;-)

Personally, I would choose a second hand (say 1-3yo) Octavia. One of the guys I work with has the latest gen one, about 1yo, and it really does look nice. And it seems big and practical as any small family could need.

Also, given the bad press for VW group currently, you might find that prices keep dropping - on both new and used.

Alternatively just keep the GTI and buy a cheap Camry. You'll hate driving it but never have to worry about the condition of the interior... or exterior.. or anything really! :-)

[Timbo]

Ah, yes...baby puke.

Well, fabric or cloth seats, the best advice I can give -- after three kids -- is to ensure the seat and carpet below have some form of waterproof, washable covering. Most new parents learn this the hard way. And the puke will otherwise get into the cracks [emoji37]

[Mi16 Man]

Mi16 Man, where did you have that car priced up? Are there any dealers that are keener for a deal than others?


All - the crowd has spoken - Octavia it is (for now at least)! Really appreciated all the thoughtful replies guys, thanks.

Reece, jump into the phone to Colin at Lennock Skoda in Canberra or, Wade at Allan Mackay Autos in Moss Vale.

Both great to deal with and were 'respectful' of my decision to grab a Polo GTI. I mucked them around for months.

Their pricing was within $100 of a car broker. I must be a good 'haggler'.

On another note, don't worry about spew, we've never experienced projectile vomit but geez my kids can crap well! Leather FTW!


MY13 Kluger KX-S AWD / MY16 Polo GTI