Is the Touareg really a 4WD

[Flipper Dog]

Makes you think sometimes, I was looking for some after market accessories for my Touareg and the 4WD shop asked if this was a 4WD. They thought it was a German Transit van thingie???
To add insult to the injury they had a good range of after market gear for the Subaru Forester.
All I wanted was a storage box for my camping gear, not like a full face steel bullbar or anything.

Flipper Dog

V6 TDI without bullbar, aftermarket suspension, driving lights, full roof carry basket, side steps, winch or twin spare wheel carriers mounted on rear.

[dmm_au]

I have the ARB catalog at home, nothing for the the Touareg and surprising number of options for soft roaders.

To be fair, VW don't keep a stock of cars in the country, and aftermarket manufacturers don't see it as a market worth catering for.

And to be fairer, there is a roof rack compatible withthe Touareg listed in their catalogue. Actually I think it had specific places for things such as a spare wheel, jerry cans etc. May be worth researching...

[Transporter]

Makes you think sometimes, I was looking for some after market accessories for my Touareg and the 4WD shop asked if this was a 4WD. They thought it was a German Transit van thingie???
To add insult to the injury they had a good range of after market gear for the Subaru Forester.
All I wanted was a storage box for my camping gear, not like a full face steel bullbar or anything.

Flipper Dog

V6 TDI without bullbar, aftermarket suspension, driving lights, full roof carry basket, side steps, winch or twin spare wheel carriers mounted on rear.

Hi Flipper Dog,
Where did you get side steps from?

[dmm_au]

Doesn't it say 'without' sidesteps etc. Point being these are all the missing accessories :)

[bobzed57]

A couple of years ago, I did an accredited 4WD course with a company, and one of their tag-along instructors was an ARB rep/honcho. He'd never seen a Treg before and came away mightily impressed with how mine performed in the variety of situations they put you in on these courses.

My immediate question to him "when is ARB going to make some accessories for the Treg?", and he said "never". His argument was that I'd probably be the only guy in Oz who'd want anything, so the market wasn't there that would warrant the design and manufacture effort.

I've been in the ARB shops and soon as they ask what vehicle you have, they don't want to know you.

Their loss as far as I'm concerned.

[Transporter]

Doesn't it say 'without' sidesteps etc. Point being these are all the missing accessories :)

Sorry mate, I red it in a harry. Our TregV6Tdi should be delivered in early December and I'm searching where to get a side steps and some other accesories. In the worst case scenario I can make side steps and spare wheel carier myself but it is time consuming, so geting already made is cheaper option for me.

[Moonan]

I agree with the frustration level about this, but side steps are actually a VW spare part. A range of items are available through www.tregcentral.com in the US, but freight is dear (ask Bobz about the cost of getting his light bar shipped)

[Flipper Dog]

MRL T5,
I have been looking around at side steps as the kids could get into and out of the vehicle with ease.
I have seen several examples getting around on the net but most are American based which = big dollars to ship over (unless I hire a container and fill it with other Touareg parts :rolleyes:).
Checking out fitting instructions the local made idea is something I might look into. It appears that if I can get the mounting points right any local step can suit. My not at all local 4WD shop which is very helpful is looking into this for me but might need the vehicle to play around with.
The bloke I have been talking with believes that if you can get stuff to make a Range Rover Vogue look like a Hummer than he will help what ever he can for the Touareg.
Once I get some kind of answer I will post.

And yeah a snorkel would be nice but not the ones the local plumber made for the Touareg expendition models.

Flipper Dog
V6 TDI with front mud flaps:D

[dmm_au]

Obviously I haven't joined the ownership club yet, but I'm sensing there could be value in either a group buy, or perhaps some shared costs of R&D for local construction.

My priority would be a decent front recovery point.
Driving Lights
Snorkel

On the driving lights I was wondering if it would be possible to make a temporary mount that attached to the roof racks, so it could be added only when going bush?

I think the front recovery point is most important, because I've never seen a vehicle snatched backwards, it's always onwards.

[Transporter]

How about skid plates like these?

1247

[dmm_au]

That looks quite cool. Nice picture anyhow.
I notice they have an ARB sticker, but I'm not sure what ARB have supplied.
Is that the standard recovery hook on the starboard side (RHS looking forward)?

I don't think the winch would be a great investment, better to travel with others and use a snatch strap. I'm still concerned about the reliability of this point, and the other threads I've read don't really provide a lot of comfort.

These recovery points look identical to the ones MountainLord sells.
http://allphaseoffroad.com/products.html?id=240

Presumably they are just stronger at the eye, no change to where they mount on the vehicle. Can someone comment on the value of this?

[Transporter]

That looks quite cool. Nice picture anyhow.
I notice they have an ARB sticker, but I'm not sure what ARB have supplied.
Is that the standard recovery hook on the starboard side (RHS looking forward)?

I don't think the winch would be a great investment, better to travel with others and use a snatch strap. I'm still concerned about the reliability of this point, and the other threads I've read don't really provide a lot of comfort.

These recovery points look identical to the ones MountainLord sells.
http://allphaseoffroad.com/products.html?id=240

Presumably they are just stronger at the eye, no change to where they mount on the vehicle. Can someone comment on the value of this?

It can be manufactured for less than $ 185 US. I'd machined it from one piece of steel. When I get our Treg I'll post pictures of finished recov. hooks.

[bobzed57]

The allphaseoffroad hooks are the same ones as mountainlord's. If you're thinking of making your own, the thread into the chassis is a LH one.

When I got my light bar, it was also supplied with sleeves so that you can use the recovery hooks without the light bar.

Cheers

[dmm_au]

If someone local has the ability to machine them local for less, consider making 2 more. I'm ordering my new T2 on Monday :)

[barefoot]

I'd like to know what everyone thinks about Composite Fibre for skid plates, it's light (won't squash you if you're under the car changing oil :-)), doesn't corrode and absorb shocks better than steel. I would imagine it'd be reasonably customizable into the various folds etc. for a skid plate.

I could investigate if there's enough interest ..... see this link to a Toowoomba company that makes bridges with composites:
http://www.wagner.com.au/cft.asp
Cheers

[Transporter]

I'd like to know what everyone thinks about Composite Fibre for skid plates, it's light (won't squash you if you're under the car changing oil :-)), doesn't corrode and absorb shocks better than steel. I would imagine it'd be reasonably customizable into the various folds etc. for a skid plate.

I could investigate if there's enough interest ..... see this link to a Toowoomba company that makes bridges with composites:
http://www.wagner.com.au/cft.asp
Cheers

I would be interested.
Marine grade aluminium is also option as material they build the ships from it.

[barefoot]

I think alum and steel might present a galvanic/anodic corrosion issuem, though lots of bull bars are alum. so I wonder how they manage this issue.
Cheers

[Transporter]

I think alum and steel might present a galvanic/anodic corrosion issuem, though lots of bull bars are alum. so I wonder how they manage this issue.
Cheers

You can get it ionidisied.
But to get electro-chemical corrosion started you need current, oxygen and/or fluid between the two parts of different metals some combination are more corrosive than others. Steel and aluminium are not very corrosive together.

[Moonan]

This thread is getting interesting...
A couple of points to the current topics here:
We have talked about recovery points and skid plates...

1. Materials of construction of the skid plates... The same Mountainlord in the US who trades as "Dakar Offroad" and provided Bobzed's recovery eyes and light bar manufactures a one-piece skidplate for the Touareg. Around US$1250, ++++ to ship to Oz. It is made of 6mm Aluminium IIRC.
As for composite fibre, that is interesting. My experience is that it is strongest in tension, mabe not so good getting a "crush injury" as in a Touareg landing heavily on its suspension and bottoming out somewhere. Flak jackets have kevlar and are "bulletproof", but (like a safety helmet) should be thrown away after impact as the fibres in them have lost their integrity. Just my 2 cents worth, I have been surprised by composites before.

2. Recovery points. First of all, VW provide a recovery eye-bolt, and it's strength has been called into question by a lot of people. Hence all of the discussion about alternatives.
Just remember one thing. While it is true that no one has been able to get a straight answer from VW Oz as to its absolute load rating, that eye bolt has come through the same engineering processes and design standards reviews as the 2.5 tonnes and $70k++ worth of complex automotive machinery that you are trusting your (and your loved ones') life to every time you go on the road. Why would you expect that it is any less capable than the rest of your Touareg? (having said that the eye sold by mountainlord has several advantages as Bob can attest to)
The whole Touareg concept is "understated but overengineered" ie it looks and drives very smoothly and does not scream "look at me I'm a wanker" like some other makes but it will take you most anywhere you want to go and will do so as effortlessly as driving to the shops.
(getting off soap box now)

[Transporter]

Some people replace tow hooks/eyes with bigger ones or better shape, some times just different shape make easyer access. We are expecting to take delivery of Treg in mid December. Ofcours if I'm happy with what is on the car as standard I wouldn't modify it. And, if I do, I'd do it properly.

[phaeton]

Hey Neil on the recovery points......

Isn't there two ?

[dmm_au]

Back to the original topic....

I've done a 4wd course (SRO99 eqiv.) and a tag along tour with Mountain Top Experience. Ron, who runs the business turned down a Toyota Klugger owner wanting to participate once. I asked him what the criteria for a 4WD on his trips was. He said low range gears and some ground clearance. Perhaps I'll asking him directly about the Touareg.

Mountain top experience, hire defenders out on a daily rate. That's what's I've driven. I have no affiliation with the company, but the Morwell, Mout Baw Baw area they operate in is lovely, and they're tours are enjoyable and welll managed.

http://www.mountaintopexperience.com/

[Moonan]

Hey Neil on the recovery points......

Isn't there two ?Ben, there are 4 points (front left, front right, rear left, rear right - but only one eye bolt comes with the vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking guys like Bob who have got the industrial strength tow eyes. One reason to do it is to get a matched pair and be able to spread the load. Another is to be able to securely and firmly place a large bow shackle shaft through it to connect your tow strap. In the case of Sumar over on clubtouareg http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f67/memories-16173.html he had his made with provision for a spreader bar to ensure that when he pulls from both eyes at once they will not pull in together.

[Flipper Dog]

Originally Posted by Moonan


2. Recovery points. First of all, VW provide a recovery eye-bolt, and it's strength has been called into question by a lot of people. Hence all of the discussion about alternatives.
Just remember one thing. While it is true that no one has been able to get a straight answer from VW Oz as to its absolute load rating, that eye bolt has come through the same engineering processes and design standards reviews as the 2.5 tonnes and $70k++ worth of complex automotive machinery that you are trusting your (and your loved ones') life to every time you go on the road. Why would you expect that it is any less capable than the rest of your Touareg? (having said that the eye sold by mountainlord has several advantages as Bob can attest to)
The whole Touareg concept is "understated but overengineered" ie it looks and drives very smoothly and does not scream "look at me I'm a wanker" like some other makes but it will take you most anywhere you want to go and will do so as effortlessly as driving to the shops.


How true is this! I just had a look at the eye bolts from a Polo (GTI), Passat (2004) and my Touareg. There certainly is a noticeable difference in the Touareg’s eye bolt compared to the other two. By what other users on this forum and other forums I have read (USA, UK and Germany) there has been no problem with the standard supplied one from Volkswagen, maybe two in the tool kit would be the go.:cool:
Volkswagen’s over engineering I would believe is more that is adequate to use this eye bolt for recovery.
Nevertheless you would only use the eye bolt to recover something of like vehicle weight and not a duel axel 10 ton fully loaded fire truck stuck in mud up to the driver’s door on a 45° angle with little traction for your vehicle.:rolleyes:

If anyone is apprehensive of the quality of the supplied eye bolt then purchase one from a dealer and conduct some independent testing.:)

I know for one that it will cover my 4WDing requirements, true the Touareg is very capable off road but if I was to make my own trails through uncharted lands I would be looking at a Land Rover Defender of Toyota Troopie before trashing the Touareg. :D

Flipper Dog
V6 TDI

[phaeton]

Ben, there are 4 points (front left, front right, rear left, rear right - but only one eye bolt comes with the vehicle.
Don't get me wrong, I am not knocking guys like Bob who have got the industrial strength tow eyes. One reason to do it is to get a matched pair and be able to spread the load. Another is to be able to securely and firmly place a large bow shackle shaft through it to connect your tow strap. In the case of Sumar over on clubtouareg http://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f67/memories-16173.html he had his made with provision for a spreader bar to ensure that when he pulls from both eyes at once they will not pull in together.

Ok then I if I do remember correctly one Aussie 4x4 mag mentioned buying/getting 2 eye bolts when buying a Touareg and using both front or rear when needed instead of just one.

Apologies can't recall what mag or article that this is mentioned in but it makes sense to even out the stress etc

[bobzed57]

My light bar is designed to spread the load across the towing points, and I have a couple of D-shackles and a bridle, to which I can connect the snatch strap.

I've never found any towing eyes in the back of my Treg. There is a cover under which all I could find was fresh air.

I've pulled people out of places, and I just use the tow bar receiver and pin.

I guess the bottom line remains, don't get yourself in the poo in the first place. :D

[Moonan]

I guess the bottom line remains, don't get yourself in the poo in the first place. :DNo truer word ever spoken...
In my many years experience it is usually driving skill and experience rather than vehicle that causes problems...

Many years ago I worked in a sand mine on Stradbroke Island, Qld. My 4WD experience owning up till then had been Suzuki 2-stroke (1976 3 cyl 540cc) then 1981 Suzuki Sierra then '83 Subaru. Now using Bob's system I took that Subaru places where we watched RR's getting bogged from the top of the hill (eg Fraser Island in 1983) and smiled quietly as we lent them our shovel.

So, consider my delight in getting a mining company vehicle - Hilux with BFG tyres. Company policy was to run them with 18psi in the tyres at all times, so cornering on bitumen was a bit ****y, but I couldn't stop the thing in sand. Funny thing was, everyone else at work had landcruisers (still 40 series in those days) and no one ever wanted to borrow the 'lux. Because when they did, they inevitably got it bogged and had to be dug out with a big sand-digging front-end loader.
My theory has always been that in a land cruiser you never learn any 4wd skills, the things are so competent off road that you don't know if you are driving one very badly. So if you get in a hilux you might be in trouble, what with only a 2l motor instead of 4.2 etc etc. On the other hand, if you learn your 4wd skills in something that was comfortable to drive in but doesn't have the clearance etc (eg my subaru) and you get into a hilux then you can't go wrong.
Moral of the story, what Bob said, but hey, I like telling stories...:)

[dmm_au]

Not sure I totally agree. I've been on a few tag along trips, and on most trips someone had to be snatched out. Generally it was someone with a less capable vehicle, although they may have had less skill also.

I think someone with very good skills might get a 2wd drive through a place where a clueless person in a 4wd would get stuck. It might happen to me in my new Touareg. Not wanting too portray myself as clueless or the Touareg as less capable :)

I'd want to know I had a front recovery point to attached the strap to, and it would be even better if I new the hook was rated for that sort of recovery proceedure.

[Transporter]

No truer word ever spoken...
In my many years experience it is usually driving skill and experience rather than vehicle that causes problems...

Many years ago I worked in a sand mine on Stradbroke Island, Qld. My 4WD experience owning up till then had been Suzuki 2-stroke (1976 3 cyl 540cc) then 1981 Suzuki Sierra then '83 Subaru. Now using Bob's system I took that Subaru places where we watched RR's getting bogged from the top of the hill (eg Fraser Island in 1983) and smiled quietly as we lent them our shovel.

So, consider my delight in getting a mining company vehicle - Hilux with BFG tyres. Company policy was to run them with 18psi in the tyres at all times, so cornering on bitumen was a bit ****y, but I couldn't stop the thing in sand. Funny thing was, everyone else at work had landcruisers (still 40 series in those days) and no one ever wanted to borrow the 'lux. Because when they did, they inevitably got it bogged and had to be dug out with a big sand-digging front-end loader.
My theory has always been that in a land cruiser you never learn any 4wd skills, the things are so competent off road that you don't know if you are driving one very badly. So if you get in a hilux you might be in trouble, what with only a 2l motor instead of 4.2 etc etc. On the other hand, if you learn your 4wd skills in something that was comfortable to drive in but doesn't have the clearance etc (eg my subaru) and you get into a hilux then you can't go wrong.
Moral of the story, what Bob said, but hey, I like telling stories...:)

Agree 100%. Be prepared and using head as well. :cool:

[barefoot]

Personally, I reckon this has made winches and snatch straps redundant.

http://www.maxtrax.com.au

Alot safer, easier to use and is suitable for just about any adverse situation, AND read your manual it's sanctioned by VW (except more elegant.....wooden plank vs maxtrax)
Cheers
btw I'm not affiliated with max trax what so ever, don't even own a set .....oh and it's 100% ozi invention!!!

[dmm_au]

I saw the maxtrax at the 4x4 expo in Melbourne last weekend.
$249. When I have a 4WD I'll get a set. They are also working on a roof rack and spare tire mount for the things.

I don't agree they'll make the other recovery methods redundant,but could be invaluable in componsating for a vehicle with IFS and therefore less wheel travel.

[Flipper Dog]

The US military had developed the original concept during the 2nd world war out of aluminium.
Not really designed for vehicle use at first but as part of a temporary aircraft runaway on the sands of the Pacific islands. The idea took off and it ended up as part of just about every jeep/4WD from the Pacific to North Africa to winter in Western Europe. With the increase of Army surplus after the war and the knowledge returned soldiers had these items became more common place for the more challenging driving conditions the post war provided.
The main problem with the original mat was it was cumbersome and took up much needed space on smaller vehicles, great to see a light weight version now available.

Not that I have any interest in this product either but I can vouch for the general idea as I have been using simular types for years. A pair of these with a good turfer winch and the trusty shovel have saved my bacon many times.

Flipper Dog

[Transporter]

I saw the maxtrax at the 4x4 expo in Melbourne last weekend.
$249. When I have a 4WD I'll get a set. They are also working on a roof rack and spare tire mount for the things.

I don't agree they'll make the other recovery methods redundant,but could be invaluable in componsating for a vehicle with IFS and therefore less wheel travel.

Many years ago, I bought something simillar at BigW it is blue in colour I still have it in my shed the trouble is that it takes space in cargo area. Yeah and it was much cheaper-still very well made. :)

[geoff7]

"On the driving lights I was wondering if it would be possible to make a temporary mount that attached to the roof racks, so it could be added only when going bush?"

If you get the "Bi-xenon Headlights with cornering lights and cleaning system" you will not need spot lights or driving lights... they are stunning.

[dmm_au]

I think it would be possible to do just that.
The is a picture online of a Cayanne with driving lights on a roof bar and a detachable snorkel.

Rhino Roof racks have driving light attachments in their catalog, so one could mount several driving lights on a cross piece attached to the lengthwise roof racks.

http://www.rhinorack.com/

Aerial and Light mounts
http://www.rhinorack.com/AccSubCategory_Aerial---Light-Brackets_24.aspx

Not sure how you get power up there though.
Also not sure how you'd switch them on and off from the cabin.

[dmm_au]

Hey Neil on the recovery points......

Isn't there two ?

Yep. I found this picture on Flickr. Can reproduce it here unfortunately.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/oneighturbo/363483256/

It shows a Touareg as a support vechicle in the Dakar ralley.
Not both recovery points have the eye screwed in.

I like the little driving lights mounted under the roof rack. Neat.

[bobzed57]

If you're think of extra lights, check the ADRs. I believe that you're only allowed to have 6 forward facing lights all up and none are allowed to be over 1.2m.

I may well be wrong noting all the utes getting about that have enough candle power to melt bitumen.

Cheers

Bob