MK6 -v- MK7 : Golf GTI

[WhiteJames]

The Dealership

After dealing with the cocks at my local Sutherland Shire dealership, a recalcitrant bunch they were, who refused to provide much information at all unless I was in a position to sign on the dotted line there and then … it was refreshing to encounter the complete opposite in terms of customer service further up the road at the Mascot Volkswagen Dealership. My dealings with my local Sutherland Shire dealership, a place where I’ve purchased two Golf GTI’s in the past, was so poor that I’m reluctant to return there or purchase another vehicle from them again. That’s coming from a guy that loves and lives in the Sutherland Shire.

The Route

The opportunity arose to test drive the new Golf GTI this week. It was only a short test drive of about 20min around the Botany Bay area of Sydney, which included driving on the concrete paved Foreshore Drive that runs parallel with the two Sydney Airport runways, down to La Peruse at Botany Bay, a nearby industrial estate and Botany Road on return to the Mascot dealership.

The Golf GTI

I opted to test drive a standard Golf GTI with Manual Transmission. The GTI didn’t appear to have any options fitted. In contrast, my Mark 6 Golf GTI is DSG and is also fitted with DCC dampers and a set of genuine Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Springs that are about 10% firmer than the standard MK6 Golf GTI springs, lower ride height about 10mm and add about 1.0 degree of negative camber at the front and about 0.5 degree of negative camber at the rear. This aids handling and cuts out a fair degree of low speed compression – secondary ride incessant patter/gyrations on motorways on my MK6 Golf GTI. Will the new Golf 7 GTI be a step above a MK6 Golf GTI with sports springs and DCC?

[WhiteJames]

The Drive

I commenced my journey with the Golf 7 GTI in ‘Normal Mode’ with DCC and steering in their default normal setting. In normal mode, the steering of the new Golf 7 GTI is much lighter. It doesn’t give any more or less feedback than the Golf MK6 GTI, but is definitely lighter.

Normal mode of the Golf 7 dampers provide a much better ride than the older MK6 Golf GTI. There’s a great leap in terms of ride refinement with no loss in dynamic ability and handling of the Golf 7 GTI. Striking compressions when driving along scarred sections of roadway and sunken manholes has shown a remarkable improvement, with the Golf 7 GTI riding with silky smoothness over the crap Sydney roadways. Suspension refinement is a definite plus on the Golf 7 GTI.

Driving out of the Mascot dealership and onto Foreshore Road in normal mode failed to show up any low speed – secondary ride incessant bobbing up and down, commonly referred as patter in engineering speak, which was prevalent in the older MK6 Golf GTI on stock GTI springs, even in Normal DCC mode.

Putting the new Golf 7 GTI to its first test, taking off around a curved slip road clearly showed that the XDS+, ESC and T/C calibration is been notably improved. There was less hinderance than is apparent in the older MK6 GTI.

Really putting the new Golf 7 GTI to test around a suburban roundabout with a left hook exit has showed how far improved the new Golf 7 GTI has come. The Golf 7 GTI maintained a tight arc around the roundabout, with no under-steer, no arms crossing over and a faint feel of the ESP and TC working in an unobtrusive way. I could also feel the rear inside wheel brake being pinched to aid in maintaining a smooth arc and limit any under-steer. The new steering system made it easier to hook around the roundabout and hook the opposite direction out of the smallish roundabout.

In contrast, the MK6 Golf GTI, even with DG Sport Springs and DCC, exhibited greater pitch and roll, the ESC and TC interfered with greater violence, and my hands were crossed over each other. The older MK6 GTI was more ragged & much less composed, with the driver having to lift off the throttle to tighten the line of arc and regain chassis composure. This was also the case hooking the steering the opposite way on exit of the roundabout, with the driver having to lift the throttle to tighten up the line due to excess chassis push into understeer. The new Golf 7 GTI had it all over my older MK6 in terms of less understeer, composure, XDS + actuation/ESC intervention and making forward progress.

It appears that the ESC and TC is calibrated to slowly & unobtrusively reduce the revs, rather than abruptly cut the power as was the case in the older MK6 GTI.

Putting new Golf 7 GTI in Sport mode when driving on the concreted section of Foreshore Drive only managed to show a very faint feel almost absent feel of patter over the small myriad of undulations and waves in the concrete roadway. This was a problem with the older MK6 Golf GTI, which caused me to fit the firmer DG Sport springs that helped reduce the incessant patter/vertical bobbing up and down. The MK6 GTI still exhibited a greater amount of patter than the new Golf 7 GTI. The new Golf 7 GTI rides supremely well, and even in Sport mode, and is another class above the preceding MK6 Golf GTI with DCC for ride comfort and dynamic ability.

Going from Normal mode to Sport mode in the new Golf 7 GTI didn’t appear to radically change the throttle response of the motor when fitted to the Manual Transmission gearbox. The steering firms up, but doesn’t feel to firm up to the degree that the older MK6 GTI does when going from Normal mode to Sport mode DCC. I was lead to believe that the throttle would sharpen when putting the Golf 7 GTI into Sport mode, I couldn’t detect any real difference in throttle response.

The new direct & port injected EA888 motor in the new Golf 7 GTI has a deeper growl and pushes up the rev range in a diesel like fashion compared to the older MK6 EA888 motor in the MK6 GTI. The older motor in the MK6 GTI responds more eagerly and urgently to throttle application in any gear anywhere in the rev-range, but is much less linear when spooling up higher into the rev range.

The new direct & port injected EA888 motor of the Golf 7 GTI appears to have taken a step back towards the older EA113 motor with an apparently slower, less eager, but linear response when responding to initial throttle applications. The new Golf 7 GTI feels to pull harder, but with a lower pitched growl in a diesel like fashion that seems to just get on with the job.

In contrast, the older EA888 direction injection only MK6 GTI motor feels the more racy and immediate of the two motors and dishes up more character, but is difficult to modulate on the throttle as the turbo spools up so much faster and harder than the motor in the Golf 7 GTI.

The loss of zeal in the new Golf 7 GTI motor may be due to the taller gearing of the Manual Trans and perhaps more poignantly, the motor feeling as if it is operating on port injection in the mid-range of it power band, which is where most drivers will spend most of their time in the rev-range.

The XDS+, ESC and TC in the new Golf 7 GTI is a step above that of the older generation MK6 Golf GTI. Ploughing on, the new Golf 7 GTI appears to have the motor reduce or slow the revs once the front wheels feel like losing purchase with the bitumen, rather than abrupt brake application with the clearly audible knocking sound of brake application as was the case in the preceding MK6 Golf GTI, which felt ragged and unruly in comparison with the new Golf 7 GTI. The new Golf 7 GTI definitely has enhanced grip levels on take off from stationary position.

The grip levels of the Golf 7 GTI have definitely been improved with the new XDS+ pseudo electronic open differential. Taking off from traffic lights, around corners and snaking around roundabout has the Golf 7 GTI front end sticking with greater resilience than the phased out MK6 GTI.

The lighter, wider and longer wheelbase brings the standard Golf 7 GTI closer to the Renault Megane RS265 in terms of overall front end grip levels, so much so, it is difficult to fathom why you’d want to fork out extra for the PP – GTI, AWD of the Golf R/Audi S3 or the mechanic diff of the Renault Megane RS265 in dry conditions.

Taking a few faster paced bends has the new Golf 7 GTI chassis sitting flatter with greater composure. In contrast, the MK6 GTI involved greater drama with the driver having to work harder to execute the same turn, with the front end feeling heavier and the rear end lighter, and the chassis exhibiting a greater amount of fore and aft pitched and roll from side to side based on the shorter and narrower chassis footprint ... not all the improvement in the Golf 7 GTI is in the electronics update, the chassis grip level has clearly been improved.

Striking bumps in a straight line has the older MK6 GTI making a greater audible thump from the front suspension. The MK6 GTI is definitely noisier than the new Golf 7, that occasionally lets in a thump, but muted to a much greater degree than the MK6. Additionally, scarred sections of patchwork roadway struck mid-corner has the MK6 GTI unsettled laterally from side to side as the DCC adaptive dampers firm up both front wheels simultaneously, which tends to shift some of the chassis load laterally across the front axle.

The DCC in the Golf 7 GTI works independently from left to right, which further adds to the supreme ride comfort & suspension independence on mid corner undulations. The DCC in the new Golf 7 GTI shows that the factory electronically continuously adjustable damper tech is gradually getting closer and closer to the premium aftermarket dampers such as Koni – FSD.

The greater composure of the new Golf 7 GTI does not necessary make it less fun, just a more focused drive. In comparison, the preceding MK6 GTI is both more demanding and awkward to drive, while failing to keep pace with the refinement and composure of the new Golf 7 GTI. The new Golf 7 GTI seems to dynamically slot in between the Megane RS265 and older MK6 Golf GTI. That is without the PP mechanical LSD. You're definitely making faster progress in the new Golf 7 GTI around bends and curves.

The manual gearshift in the new Golf 7 GTI has been greatly improved over the MK6 GTI. The manual shifter feels shorter with greater weight in actuation, and there is less chance of the driver hitting their hand on the centre console as the console appears to taper away and upwards to a greater degree than the older MK6 GTI. The foot pedals also offer good feel & lightness, but the throttle travel feels to be shorter than in my MK6 GTI with DSG. Mascot Volkswagen state that the PP GTI will be about 60kgs heavier than the std Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI, with about 50kgs of that weight over the front axle.

From an ownership proposition, the new Golf 7 GTI allows the owners not only to have and eat their cake at the same time, but allows the owner to eat more of that cake more of the time then was the case with the preceding MK6 GTI, with much greater refinement introduced into the chassis ride comfort with added dynamic capability for steering and handling.

[WhiteJames]

Summary

Is it worth upgrading from the MK6 Golf GTI to the new Golf 7 GTI? I’d have to say yes.

It’s not all good, the new Golf 7 GTI motor has traded off a bit of zeal for a greater amount of linearity in power delivery/turbo spooling. The older EA888 in the MK6 also sounds & feels more racy and is the more characterful of the two motors.

Pros of the new Golf 7 GTI is that it has a tangible improvement in chassis grip level, a notable improvement in electronic XDS+, ESC and TC actuation, a new-found level of unmatched refinement … while at the same time offering a more focused drive with a much less ragged nature, making it easier for the driver to cover ground quickly with less effort. The new Golf 7 GTI is easier to live with in town with the lighter steering in Normal and Comfort modes and a thinner steering wheel, but more business-like with the sharper variable ratio steering when stringing a series of corners together.

It may be time to put the MK6 Golf GTI for sale and upgrade to the new Golf 7 GTI:

[tonymy01]

Is this a loooong 4 sale thread haha.

[andrew7]

Nice work WJ: looking forward to your review of the PP and R when they come out!

[Jimi]

Nice write up. The wait is going to be painful.

[antihero3000]

Great review.

Keen to hear the noise of the new engine for myself.

[Brycem]

WJ

Can you confirm that the manual still pulls well from incredibly low rpms in the higher gears. I regularly slot my manual mark6 into 6th gear at 55 kmh and it handles this comfortably.

I have a 2014 build mark7 on order.

Thanks

[WhiteJames]

Hindsight

Rest assured …. The Golf 7 GTI pulls cleanly from low revs. My tractability test heading west on Foreshore Drive towards Beauchamp Street on an uphill gradient had the Golf 7 GTI chugging along comfortably in both 5th and 6th gears at low revs.

5th and 6th gears in the Manual Trans Golf 7 GTI are very tall. In the 60-70-80kph speed limit drive, I found myself keeping the Golf 7 Manual in 3rd and 4th gear mainly, as this felt to be most comfortable without unduly laboring the motor.

The new generation dual injection EA888 motor of the Golf 7 GTI brings the power delivery closer to the GTD. You have loads of low down punchy torque and fantastic in hear acceleration, but a less frenetic top end. It takes a bit of excitement away from the motor. I can see why Volkswagen-Audi group have done this for improved fuel economy under load – keep the motor revving in the lower end of the tachometer to enhance fuel economy.

It doesn’t surprise me that the new Golf 7 GTI has not posted much faster acceleration times than the outgoing MK6 GTI. I think where the Golf 7 GTI will excel (Golf R/Audi S3 for that matter) is torque-rich in-gear acceleration (80-120kph), similar to what a diesel motor offers out on the freeway.

In comparison, the older MK6 GTI feels to have less torque available from down low, but feels like it has a lighter-weight flywheel in that it wants to rev faster and more freely, especially higher up in the rev-range (4500rpm +). This makes it feel like a more peaky motor that spools faster and with in a frenzied manner.

We need to bear in mind that the Golf 7 GTI tester motor was still quite tight with low mileage.

I think the EA888 direct-injection motor in the MK6 GTI will go down as the most characterful turbo motor in recent VAG memory. Additionally: part of the MK6 GTI lack of traction during acceleration may be put down to the way the direct injected EA888 motor develops its fast spooling & peaky power delivery.

Another thing affecting the chassis balance of the new Golf 7 GTI in terms of its ability to reduce under-steer during cornering is that the motor now sits further rearwards in relation to the front axle. The MK6 GTI has the motor hanging further out front, which makes it a bit more of a handful during cornering maneuvres. You also sit lower in the Golf 7 GTI, which also creates a sensation of sportiness as opposed to the more upright seating position of the MK6 GTI.

Both Ray and I felt that the mob at Five Dock and Mascot Volkswagen easier to deal with than our local dealer when it comes to consulting for information. Ray, much to my consternation, ended buying the Five Dock MD's demo Golf R. Thankfully, it doesn't drink any oil.

WJ

[MkVIGTI]

part of the MK6 GTI lack of traction during acceleration may be put down to the way the direct injected EA888 motor develops its fast spooling & peaky power delivery

Have to be careful when pulling out of side streets fast in my GTI lol, tyres lose traction easily if I'm not too careful (even though I'm running near new Goodyear Eagle F1A2s).

On a day to day drive, the new EA888 engine will excel with the extra low down torque though. My MkVI GTI can feel a bit lacking low down when driven sedately.

[tonymy01]

? EA888 is in both MK6 and MK7 GTI. the only 2l turbo mk6 that doesn't have it is Golf R and ED35 GTI (both with K04 turbo) which have the older donk, because they were worried about strength at the time for the higher boost/HP outputs of the R&ED35. Of course the mk7 refines the ea888 further though..

[WhiteJames]

Not all EA888 motors are created equal:

The revised EA888 in the Golf 7 GTI is lighter, has different internals, plastic sump, a completely new head with turbine exhaust manifold incorporated into the head complete with water jackets for cooling. From a drivability perspective, the doughiness, lack of urgency and less eagerness in the mid range would be due to the fuelling as apparently the new Golf 7 EA888 motor runs on port injection in the mid range.

This allows the GTI (R/S3) to run higher gearing for better fuel economy on the highway. The direct injection is primarily used on start up, down low and up high in the rev-range where fuel is metered out in a more precise fashion. The port injection in the mid-range make the new EA888 in the Golf 7 GTI feel like the older EA113 motor with old-school fuelling system & two lob cam fuel pump actuator (MK6 GTI has a four lob cam actuator) ... the Golf 7 also feels like the Megane RS265 that has port injection ... i.e. the fueling system & throttle response is less precise -v- the earlier direct-injection only MK6 GTI. The direct injection MK6 GTI has this motor running higher in the rev range on the highway, which of course uses more fuel.

On a side note:

How good is the new electronic park brake and hill-hold function. On an uphill gradient at the intersection of Foreshore Drive & Beauchamp Street, I hit the hill hold function and once the lights changed, simply drive away with no fuss or drama. No need to press any button, just simply let out the clutch and drive away.

The hill-hold function, great manual transmission gear-change shifter, added fuel economy, less weight esp. over the front axle, and slightly more visceral drive make the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI appealing. Pity Volkswagen won't do a special order standard manual trans with PP LSD only.

Dealer also mentioned that the PP - GTI haldex limited slip different adds not only more weight to the vehicle, about 60kgs with bundled options, but extra complexity. If you have concerns about the longevity of the DSG gearbox and megatronics unit, the PP - GTI doubles this issue with extra moving parts, control modules and electronics for the electro mechanical LSD in the PP-GTI. More moving parts makes a greater chance of something going wrong.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Golf 7 GTI –v- MK6 Golf R

A discussion has arisen when having coffee with neighbor Ray as to whether the new Golf 7 GTI is comparable to the previous model MK6 Golf R as an ownership proposition.

As stated earlier, Ray purchased a low-mileage near new Golf R almost fully loaded, but no DCC. This includes the 19” wheels, sunroof, satnav, pretty much every option bar race seats & DCC setting him back a few grand below 60K.

Firstly, I must say that the improvement from the MKV Golf GTI to MK6 Golf GTI involved a number of small revisions and additions that equated to a sum greater than each individual minor upgrade. This and the new less maintenance intensive hard punching fast spooling EA888 motor in the MK6 made a convincing case to upgrade from the MK5 to the MK6, despite each having the same basic chassis (MK6 chassis is actually stiffer in the rear end than MKV).

Ray has been bitching about the ride quality of his MK6 Golf R on 19” wheels with no DCC when driven on crap Sydney roadways. His previous ride was the MKV R32. Large bumps thumping through the chassis of the MK6 Golf R into the cabin, a terse low speed ride comfort and the B-pillar rattle when striking large single wheel bumps due to a bit of chassis flex are common complaints. Especially on the 19” wheels.

The new Golf 7 GTI does not involve a lot of minor updates, but a great leap in terms of improved chassis footprint and therefore agility, torsional rigidity and chassis stiffness, noise suppression, XDS+ calibration and ride refinement.

Yes … the MK6 Golf R is AWD, which does count for a lot.

The media reports that the new Golf 7 GTI is comparable to the Golf R in terms of performance ... and in some reports ... actually better than the MK6 Golf R, which is entirely believable.

The more focused Golf 7 GTI that rolls and pitches less than the MK6 Golf R, is more fluid and easier to steer and drive, with lighter weight and improved proactive electronic XDS+ and rear wheel braking make the Golf 7 GTI a better choice as from a driver and ownership perspective. I would go as far to say that from an ownership proposition, even if Ray’s almost fully loaded MY13 MK6 Golf R for 58K was the same price as the Golf 7 GTI (44K), I’d still be opting for the Golf 7 GTI as it's just a more focussed drive that is able to cover ground far more effectively with less driver input & effort than the MK6 R.

The feeling having the MK Golf R motor hanging further out over the front axle, making it feel like a heavier wheelbarrow to muscle into corners re: under-steer and mid corner balance, the extra effort required to steer the MK6 Golf R, and the fact that the springs, sway bars and dampers do not effectively contain the pitch & roll of the smaller chassis footprint that now feels top and front heavy & much less focused & less fluid with less ride comfort, XDS system that is now antiquated, extra weight and KO4 turbo lag has me leaning to the Golf 7 GTI as the pick over the MK6 Golf R for the same money.

Every cloud has a silver lining:

The Golf 7 GTI on the MQB platform bodes extremely well for the upcoming Audi S3/Golf R, which will be a seriously rapid and focused vehicle.

Ray may boost that he has all the bells & whistles in terms of options on the outgoing MK6 Golf R, but all the complaints he has about the Golf R are dramatically reduced or eliminated in the Golf 7 version.

It also has me thinking that the Golf 7 GTI on 19” wheels, not the sexiest wheels I’ve every laid my eyes upon, will ride reasonably well. The Golf 7 GTI PP on 19” will definitely ride better than the MK6 Golf GTI on 18” wheels … for sure. Concerns that the 19” wheels on the PP – GTI Golf 7 will have it riding like an absolute beatch may well be unfounded.

Still not convinced about the extra weight over the front axle and overall on the PP – GTI. I’m sure that the PP _ GTI will run stiffer springs to compensate for (1) Extra weight of DSG; (2) Extra weight of the Haldex LSD. Obviously this will affect initial turn-into corners and agility to a degree.

For the time being, I’ve advised Ray, and other potential MK6 Golf R owners to sample Golf 7 GTI, which out in the real world, in the dry or slightly damp conditions, will no about cover ground as effectively if not more effectively than the outgoing MK6 Golf R.

I guess the Golf is really like the 911 Porsche … it is evolving into a much more rapid, focused, easier vehicle to drive & steer, with the added benefit of an improvements in ride refinement, which only adds to its appeal as an ownership proposition.

WJ

[zoomda]

Yes … the MK6 Golf R is AWD, which does count for a lot.

The media reports that the new Golf 7 GTI is comparable to the Golf R in terms of performance ... and in some reports ... actually better than the MK6 Golf R, which is entirely believable.


It's entirely wrong. The Mk6 R eats the MK7 GTI for breakfast. I drove both back to back and the R felt a lot quicker. Both off the line (which was expected thanks to AWD) but also in gear.

To back that up the latest Wheel magazine tested the 7 GTI DSG. 0-100 was 6.5secs and the 400m was 14.5secs. That's only 0.1 seconds quicker than the MK6 GTI.

The R on the other hand has been tested by Motor magazine at 5.4 secs and 13.6secs. That's not comparable, that's a significant difference.

[Mountainman]

It's entirely wrong. The Mk6 R eats the MK7 GTI for breakfast. I drove both back to back and the R felt a lot quicker. Both off the line (which was expected thanks to AWD) but also in gear.

To back that up the latest Wheel magazine tested the 7 GTI DSG. 0-100 was 6.5secs and the 400m was 14.5secs. That's only 0.1 seconds quicker than the MK6 GTI.

The R on the other hand has been tested by Motor magazine at 5.4 secs and 13.6secs. That's not comparable, that's a significant difference.
Look at Wheels again and you'll see the GTI 7 0-100 time was 6.4, not 6.5. Wheels also tested the 3 door manual Golf R in March 2011 at 0-100 6.4 and 0-400m in 14.4. Doesn't seem to be much in it looking at those figures.

Both a long way off what Wheels got in a bog standard WRX in July 2011 too. How about 0-100 in 5.4 and 0-400m in 13.9? All for $39990 - yeah, cheap and a bit nasty but a real animal to drive at times.

[zoomda]

Look at Wheels again and you'll see the GTI 7 0-100 time was 6.4, not 6.5. Wheels also tested the 3 door manual Golf R in March 2011 at 0-100 6.4 and 0-400m in 14.4. Doesn't seem to be much in it looking at those figures.

Both a long way off what Wheels got in a bog standard WRX in July 2011 too. How about 0-100 in 5.4 and 0-400m in 13.9? All for $39990 - yeah, cheap and a bit nasty but a real animal to drive at times.

You are right, it was 6.4.

As for the Wheels R test in 2011. That was for a manual, not a DSG. Motors test was DSG which is why I used their time.

A DSG Golf R will walk away from a WRX. The shift times are just so much quicker than a manual.

[Brendan_A]

The R on the other hand has been tested by Motor magazine at 5.4 secs and 13.6secs. That's not comparable, that's a significant difference.

Go check the 1/4 mile thread. 13.6 is more like a stage 1 R mate.

[Mutch1983]

I certainly haven’t driven the new GTI but I have driven theMk6 R {great car} so personally I wouldn’t know but I have to agree that the media has suggested that the GTI {especially in PP form}, is a match for the outgoing R.

There is little doubt that the R will smash the GTI in the traffic light derby and power down out of tight corners but of course performance also encompasses mid range and cornering ability and the new GTI seems pretty good in these areas.
In the Wheels test that you mentioned they actually got a ‘Megane’ like 3.4 for the 80-120km time which was half a second quicker than Motor Magazine got for their manual R in their 2010 BFYB test and even faster than Wheels got for the MK6 GTI. Yep, I know different test conditions and drivers but it suggests that the GTI’s chassis, engine, traction and weight improvements have affected performance significantly.

As for track performance ‘Sport auto’ a German based magazine that routinely track tests found that that the Mk 7 GTI PP was around asecond slower than the time they got for a MK6 R around Hockenheim Short {tight track} but five seconds faster than the time they got for a MK6 R around the Nurburgring. Once again different test conditions make the reliability of the results debateable. More significant isthe fact that at the launch of the Mk7 Golf R in Frankfurt, VAG officials were informing the press that the new R was 15 seconds faster around the Nurburgring than the old Mk 6 R and 11 seconds quicker than their fastest time for the new GTI PP.

Zoomba, you’d know better than me having driven booth but Iagree with WhiteJames in that the media has suggested that at least performance wise the new GTI is competitive with the outgoing R

[WhiteJames]

My MK6 Golf GTI with DG Sport Springs, which ties down the GTI more so than a GTI with stock springs, makes the MK6 GTI feel slower. Despite the DG Sport Spring upgrade to my GTI, the MK6 GTI felt faster than the Golf 7 GTI. This is due to the MK6 GTI chassis having much less composure and the motor tuned to feel more urgent, crisp and eager.

The Golf 7 GTI is just far more composed in a straight line and around bends … a sign of a competent chassis. Not only do you have the improved chassis architecture … the Golf 7 GTI runs improved dampers with anti lift-off rebound properties for extra stability.

Factor in improved front and rear wheel XDS+ torque and brake vectoring, the lighter weight that is less taxing on brakes & tyres, an EA888 motor with more low-down instant punch that is less likely to be caught off boost, more direct steering requiring much less effort, less pitch & roll with a more composed & stiffer chassis that sits flatter during turns with less tenancy to push into understeer around tight bends … and I’m still betting out in the real world that for majority of drivers that the Golf 7 GTI will at least keep pace if not be quicker than the MK6 Golf R.

That added composure & refinement incorporated in the Golf 7 MQB chassis may makes it feel like your travelling slower, when in actual fact your travelling faster and having to lift off a lot less in and out of bends to counter any understeer.

Remember that the MK6 Golf R motor sits further forward and higher relative to the rest of the vehicle, making it harder to cajole and keep the front end into corners, esp tighter & narrower corners out on public roadways.

If it were a track battle at somewhere like Eastern Creek Raceway or Phillip Island, then I’d have my money on the MK6 Golf R as the faster vehicle … without a doubt.

But driving on public roadways that are narrower, tighter and with added gradient, I reckon the Golf 7 GTI would be the one to go for. The AWD will not compensate for an inherently understeer biased chassis tune of the MK6 Golf R.

I’m not arguing for or against AWD as I initially suggested to Ray that he wait out some time and upgrade to the Audi S3 or perhaps the Golf 7 R due to their lighter weight, more competent chassis & stiffer chassis and improved XDS+ electronics package. Ray likes his bells & whistles, which would result in a 75K Audi S3, which is a lot to pay cash for a smallish hatchback.

I thought the DSG standard trim Audi S3 Sportback for about 68K would have been a better choice than a 58K almost fully loaded slightly used MK6 Golf R. Ray has invited me to test drive the Audi S3 and perhaps the Golf 7 R with him. Once he drives the MQB platform, he may well want to upgrade again, but at a considerable loss if he sells his current MK6 golf R. He also wants me to run a loop in his current MK6 Golf R to assess the impact noise when striking certain bumps in the roadway that he normally travels re: stiffer & firmer ride & chassis flex … now he would be less likely to have this issue if he waited for the new Audi S3 or Golf 7 R or Golf 7 GTI for that matter as the MQB platform has much superior ride comfort & refinement.

For me, the Golf GTI is plenty fast and capable for real world driving and the level of standard kit sufficient for my needs.

WJ

[zoomda]

Go check the 1/4 mile thread. 13.6 is more like a stage 1 R mate.
I've used times recorded by the major magazines simply because it is something anyone can look up. Different temps, cars, drivers and other conditions will skew the results of the course. But for the purpose of comparing the VII GTI and VI R it is suitable.

The VII GTI is more powerful and lighter than the previous model. So far though it's 0-100 and 400m times aren't much better than the VI GTI. I'm sure it would be quicker in gear and when compared to an R then it might be more comparable. But for the most common straight line performance tests it just isn't a match for the VI R.

There was also comparison here between a manual R and DSG GTI. You really have to compare DSG to DSG. There is no launch control in the manual so that skews the results further.

Both of these cars ran a very slow time but the R still wins by a significant amount:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6XcwJ_DdEo

[tonymy01]

There is no launch control in the manual so that skews the results further.

Lol,I agree you should compare DSG to DSG, but you don't need launch control in a manual as your left and right foot will do it fine.

[Cantgiveyouthat]

White James. Please wait and buy an R or an s3. It will save us and you the interminable essays on why the gti is quicker than your make believe mate Ray's car. 20% extra power, 4wd and small additional weight penalty are a well known Achilles heel when up against a gti.

[tonymy01]

I was surprised he suggested the R had body roll! My non-DCC R is very flat, hard to imagine anyone suggesting it had any roll (yes, it was a comparison, and I guess a MK7 GTI could "up the bar").

[WhiteJames]

Confirmation that Ray exists can be made through the local Sutherland dealership head mechanic … Ray has already brought up the B-Pillar noise issue on large heavy one wheel hits in his non-DCC MK6 Golf R. He has offered the head mechanic an extended drive on his regular route to work to replicate the noise. There is nothing that can be down about the chassis flex issue. I believe that when they strengthened the MK6 chassis over and above the MK5 chassis, the chassis twisting & torqueing has made its way up around the driver’s B-pillar on one wheel bumps.


Speaking of buying a new car, I come close to laying down a $500 deposit on the Golf 7 GTI Manual in similar spec to what I’m looking for due to arrive in Dec 2013. Better wait to see how the sale of my current ride fares. Still interested to see how the PP – GTI and Golf R in the Golf 7 version drive … so no rush.

In respect to the earlier video … I found that the Golf 7 GTI does pull from standstill more effectively than the MK6 GTI. Perhaps a combination of lighter weight, improved suspension tune maximizing greater use of the tyres purchase on the roadway and more linear delivery of the turbo boost in the new EA888 motor esp down low. Since when did a FWD launch better than an AWD?

The MK6 Golf R in the video is most probably running coilovers … perhaps an extra 25% spring rate or more with extra damping rate pushing the Golf R down in the tarmac for better traction. Okay … the MK6 Golf R is manual trans, does suffer from low-end turbo lag which may cause it to bog down on take-off, in addition to the extra weight.

It takes about half distance of the timed drag strip run for the MK6 Golf R to reel in the new Golf 7 GTI … in other words … about where most State limits come into force (110kph). Anything below the State max limit, and the Golf 7 GTI seems to have it all over the MK6 Golf R, making the new Golf 7 GTI more effective out in the real world.

Show me a 58K fully optioned new Golf 7 GTI –v- 58K almost fully optioned MK6 Golf R demo … and I’d be taking the Golf 7 GTI every time

WJ

[tonymy01]

That was a terrible getaway on the R in that vid, sounded like clutch slip 1st to 2nd too..would be better to see stock against stock.

[zoomda]

That was a terrible getaway on the R in that vid, sounded like clutch slip 1st to 2nd too..would be better to see stock against stock.

The time was so bad I hope it is stock!

[WhiteJames]

I believe that the B-pillar flex issue is not only pertinent to the MK6 Golf R, although the stiffer suspension tune may bring the noise out to a greater degree and more frequently than other models such as the MK6 GTI. I've had the issue when driving out in the country with my GTI on large deep one-wheel bumps travelling about 80kph. I originally thought it was a loose driver's door and asked to have the driver door mechanism checked. No issue with the doors, just a nuance of the tighter MK6 chassis with extra rigidity put lower into the chassis over the MK5 I believe. Additionally ... I'm also putting down a bit of steering rack kickback in the MK6 Golf GTI and R when striking mid corner lateral ridges to the same extra rigidity and slightly different suspension tune of the MK6 variants over the MK5. The MK5 never had any steering wheel kickback, even with three different suspension tunes I had on my earlier MK5 GTI. It's too early to tell if the new Golf 7 has this issue, but I suspect not based on my initial drive. For details on Sutherland Shire Volkswagen ... just google Sutherland Volkswagen and ask for Sammy. Ray is my neighbour, as you can see from my carsales.com.au advert, I live in Sutherland.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

MK6 Golf GTI –v- Golf 7 GTI: Part II

The Boat Shed Drive

I took the opportunity to re-engage my local dealer re: Golf 7 GTI pricing and issues surrounding corporate pricing. As a result, I decided to take out another new Golf 7 GTI for a test drive from Sutherland along the Boat Shed run, which runs into the nearby Royal National Park. This time the new Golf 7 GTI was an automatic with DSG gearbox.

In this respect, we are comparing apples with apples as my MK6 Golf GTI is DSG auto. Although it’s worth noting that my GTI has genuine Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Springs that are about 10% firmer than a standard MK6 Golf GTI, which improves handling & agility. As stated before, both GTI’s, new & old, have DCC.

The Boat Shed run is very hilly with lots of tight twists and turns. The drive essentially snakes down into a deep ravine. The roadway texture is a mix of coarse chip bitumen with a few sections layered in smooth fine bitumen. The speed limit is a low 60kph with 80kph on the entry into the National Park and nearby highway. The Boat Shed run will further test the dynamic capabilities of each vehicle, as opposed to the earlier in-city test drive where it was predominantly flat in gradient.

You’re already aware that the Golf 7 GTI is more refined with less roadway noise, the steering is lighter in both Normal and Sport settings, with ride comfort improved to a notable degree over the previous model GTI, and the motor offering greater torque down low and the turbo spooling up in a much more linear fashion.

The Golf 7 GTI was put into Normal mode with steering in normal and DCC dampers in Normal for the drive downwards to the Hacking River low-level bridge. The Golf 7 GTI turns in more easily with less effort than the previous model, and has the driver working with less effort to tip the Golf 7 GTI into corners. The Golf 7 GTI rotates with added ease into corners and carries less under-steer during cornering, with the front tyres biting into the tarmac with greater tenacity and feel.

Once on the power around mid-corner, you can feel the added torque of the Golf 7 GTI new generation dual injection EA888 motor pulling the vehicle out corners. The added torque does cause the driver to feel that the XDS+ to pinch the front inside wheel when powering out of corners. The chassis is more composed & sits flatter during downhill cornering. The added torque down load can have the XDS+ working more notably than the earlier model MK6 Golf GTI, with the earlier MK6 not having the ability to push out of corners as quickly and as effectively, nor maintain such a tight & smooth arc of trajectory.

The DSG version of the new Golf 7 GTI does seem a little less involving and there feels to be a hint greater weight causing some added under-steer when snaking down through the corners compared to what I have experienced earlier the week before in the Manual Transmission Golf 7 version. The Manual Transmission Golf 7 the week before offered greater driver involvement.

I wouldn’t go as far as to say that the new Golf 7 GTI pivots around its centre axis in a near neutral chassis tune. The Golf 7 does steer from the front end, but to a much less degree than the MK6 Golf GTI … with the MK6 Golf GTI at 8/10ths and the new Golf 7 GTI at 9/10ths before XDS steps in to electronically adjust your line.

The driver can definitely feel that the front wheels of the new Golf 7 GTI are further away and that the centre of gravity & roll centre has been improved in the Golf 7 as on the downhill run, with the weight of the motor falling towards the front outside wheel in bends, rather than next to over the front outside wheel as in the case of the MK6 Golf GTI, which creates a sensation that the higher motor and higher CoG chassis of the MK6 wants to pick up the front inside wheel off the ground, causing it to unload & lessen grip levels.

The progressive steering in the Golf 7 GTI makes it easier to cause the chassis to change direction with less effort. It is worth noting that the Boat Shed drive, while tight & twisting, does not have many really tight hairpin corners to negotiate. The progressive steering in the Golf 7 is still better to use, but most of the advantage would be around haripins and more to the point, in everyday city use. The steering the MK6 Golf GTI was far from disgraced on this particular type of roadway, but did require more effort and a greater degree of twisting and hand movement. The older MK6 GTI also required a greater amount of steering and throttle adjustments to maintain a smooth arc around the downhill bends. The new Golf 7 GTI just seems to flow around bends better.

The Golf 7 still exhibited a couple of thumps onto and off the low level concrete bridge at The Boat Shed in Normal DCC mode, similar to the earlier model MK6 Golf GTI, but with less noise entering the cabin. You’re still mindful that your driving a tallish hatchback with not a great amount of spring travel and motor that sits fairly high up in the chassis, especially compared to a sports couple such as the BRZ/86 twins or the Megane RS365 for that matter.

On the return leg heading back up the mountain ravine, I put the Golf 7 GTI in Sport mode, which stiffened up the steering and dampers. I’m am now convinced that the amount of extra weight provided from Normal mode to Sport mode in the Golf 7 is less than that of the MK6 Golf GTI.

Both Normal mode and Sport mode steering in the Golf 7 is lighter than the same steering modes in the MK6 Golf GTI with DCC, and why wouldn’t it be with the progressive steering rack, which in concert with the lighter and more direct steering, inducing greater ease and refinement when punting the Golf 7 GTI around corners. The heavier steering in the MK6 GTI does not provide any greater amount of feel, in fact, the Golf 7 GTI seems to telegraph what the tyres are doing more effectively, despite having lighter steering in all driving modes.

One area of interest in this back to back test is the low laying Boat Shed concrete bridge that runs over the Hacking River. The bridge is sunken down low and there is a mighty large bump as you hook left into an uphill corner back onto terra firma on your ascent up the mountain. This corner simultaneously tests the vehicle’s ability to turn into a corner and manage an upsetting high compression bump, which creates a certain amount of heave in any vehicle chassis, while testing the depth and speed of rebound in the spring/damper package and the suspension’s ability to keep bump steer at bay.

The Golf 7 dishes up less low speed compression & rebound in the damper tune, which creates an improved ride over the earlier model MK6 almost all the time regardless of the surface texture, with less information being filtered from the small roadway imperfections into the chassis and driver/passengers seats & steering wheel.

Smacking the large compression Boat Shed bridge bump shows that the Golf 7 GTI’s high-speed primary big bump compression and rebound damping is greater than what the MK6 Golf GTI offers (with or without DCC). There is a greater firmness in the damper tune in both rebound and compression on large & fast hits during cornering. The MK6 Golf GTI with DCC in Sport felt like the damper/spring package collapsed to a greater degree, taking the edge of the high-speed compression bump at the expense of a less focused turn-in into the corner. I would not say that the older MK6 GTI showed any greater amount of heave with striking the bump on corner entry, but felt less contained taking longer to return to the suspension’s natural state after an upset.

The lighter weight of the Golf 7 GTI with the front wheels poking out further allows for a greater amount of compression & rebound rate in the springs & dampers, creating increased tautness in body control. The MK6 with DG Sport Springs was not embarrassed in the high speed compression big hit on entry to corner in terms of ride comfort, but you could feel that some handling prowess & forward motion had to be compensated when the DCC in Sport mode semi-active dampers softened up the corner entry blow. The thump noise in the chassis body of the Golf 7 was also more muted and turned in a bit sharper telegraphing greater tyre grip info and kept its line tighter, powering out harder with the abundance of low end torque. There was a heap more noise emanating from the undercarriage of the older MK6 Golf GTI.

[WhiteJames]

Powering up the mountain-side in the Golf 7 with the DSG in Sport mode has me thinking that the actual DSG gearbox software mode between Golf 7 and MK6 Sport is tuned to be very similar.

Powering up steep hills is a real test of a motor’s ability to pull forward in addition to the front end bite into, during and out of bends. Although the MK6 Golf GTI has a certain racy soundtrack & feel to it, and the turbo responds more crisply & eagerly, you could tell that the MK6 Golf GTI lacked the low-end instant torque response. The MK6 Golf GTI, seemed to be making more noise, with less forward motion, but feeling more fun doing it and demanding greater driver effort. The MK6 Golf GTI chassis had a greater tendency to understeer providing a continued feeling through bends when pressing on that the inside front wheel wanted to lift off the ground, effecting power down grip and refinement levels.
The front end of the MK6 Golf GTI seems to be dominated by the motor siting higher and further forward of the front axle, which required greater effort from the driver to keep a tight & secure line through the uphill bends. It was definitely more challenging muscling the older MK6 Golf GTI through bends, but ultimately the driver is working harder for less reward in forward motion, whether it be the amount of torque delivery or the less focused chassis footprint and tune.

The Golf 7 GTI when leaned on really hunts for the apex. On several corners, the immediacy of the tip-in into corners caught me by surprise at how pointed the front end of the Golf 7 GTI could be and the mid corner rotation of the chassis reducing understeer and that desire of the MK6 Golf GTI to want to understeer, carrying on outwards from the bends. One minor annoyance with the Golf 7 GTI is that on the uphill run in Sport mode, you could feel the XDS+ pinching the front inside wheel to a greater degree than the MK6 Golf GTI, which felt a greater tendency to allow a bit more slip on the inside front wheel on uphill bends. Part of this is due to the enhanced torque from the Golf 7 motor, but also partly due to the swiftness of progress of that the Golf 7 GTI makes when powering up tight twisting corners.

At times I thought that the PP – GTI limited slip diff could come in handy to smooth out the extra torque of the new dual injection EA888 motor in the Golf 7 GTI. I wouldn’t go as far to say that for driving on the public roadway at public roadway speeds that the PP – GTI limited slip differential would be required to actually propel the vehicle out of the corner a great deal faster than a standard GTI … rather, the LSD in the PP – GTI would make the pull out of corners more seem-less without the tug on the inside front wheel brake that the XDS+ has a tendency to do. In contrast, the MK6 Golf GTI with DG Sport Springs is too busy getting its act together traversing up steep gradients in terms of less chassis focus & less power output of the older motor not troubling the XDS pseudo electronic diff as nearly as much in the MK6 Golf GTI. The XDS+ in the new Golf 7 GTI seems to be tuned to be more proactive when powering out of bends.

Be mindful that my GTI handles these roadways much better than a DCC MK6 GTI on standard Golf GTI springs.

Pulling uphill, the older MK6 GTI still manages to telegraph more of the roadway surface to the driver in terms of suspension damping on minor roadway blemishes and bumps. This makes the ride feel rougher on the MK6. The overall rigidity of the chassis, bushes, spring & damper combo in the new Golf 7 GTI seems to translate the grip levels of what the tyres are doing on the bitumen, which in concert with the progressive steering system, adds greater confidence for the driver to push on. Going uphill always had the older MK6 GTI feeling like the front end was going to wash-out, whereas the new Golf 7 GTI seemed to use the front end grip more purposefully and with greater purchase, sticking harder for longer until higher 350Nm of torque on power out application gives a bit of a XDS+ purposeful proactive pinch on corner exit.

The MK6 Golf GTI is fun because is it more ragged to muscle around these hills, alternatively … the Golf 7 GTI is also fun because it is so focused in how it goes about covering ground, pointing into and out of bends with a greater amount of sharpness & ease. The MK6 Golf GTI scores well with loads of character but loses points for being ultimately less effective. The Golf 7 GTI loses points for a less enthralling power delivery, which is much more linear in building thrust, without any crescendo, peak or trough in the rev range, but scores well for covering ground effectively and greater amount of mechanical grip of its tyres and chassis.

Out on the Princes Highway between Wollongong and The Sutherland Shire, I put both EA888 motors to the tractability test.

Both DSG auto gearboxes in 6th gear at 70kph with slight throttle application to see which pulls more effectively. The MK6 Golf GTI responded with greater eagerness, which I put down to perhaps the lower gearing and the faster spooling direct injection MK6 motor. The Golf 7 GTI seems to lumber along, not showing much if any evidence at all of responding to the light throttle increase and feeling very much like an older school port injected motor. The MK6 Golf GTI feels as if it can hold higher gear ratios at lower speeds. The Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI apparently has even taller ratio for 6th gear, but this should benefit fuel economy in the right circumstances, although as an owner, I’d be inclined to keep the Golf 7 GTI in a lower gear ratio to keep the motor spinning more freely, perhaps negating some of the perceived added fuel economy of the Golf 7.

After driving the DSG auto Golf 7 GTI I pondered a few issues:

The Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI seems to be the more engaging & sweeter drive for most of the time. The DSG auto Golf 7, on this route did not show my older MK6 Golf GTI with DCC on VW Driver Gear Sport Springs a clean pair of heels. That extra bit of weight up front and apparently slightly stiffer front springs to accommodate the extra weight of the DSG auto in the Golf 7 GTI has blunted a bit of that turn-in eagerness that the Manual Trans Golf 7 GTI offered.

The PP – GTI with proper mechanical limited slip front differential (Haldex Plate Type) would provide a more seem-less drive with added effectiveness in ability to pull out of corners with no interruption, a definite benefit for the racetrack or anything above 8/10ths driving … but having driven both DSG and Manual Transmission standard Golf 7 GTI’s, I can’t help but feel that the extra weight of the PP – GTI would blunt chassis agility, chassis balance, steady state grip levels and initial tip-in into corners based on having driven the standard spec Golf 7 GTI in Manual and DSG Auto.

The Golf 7 R is likely to be only a bit heavier than the PP – GTI and with the absence of the weight of the LSD at the front end, coupled with extra weight in the rear end (i.e. rear differential) for greater balance for not a lot more money. This could be a realistic alternative. I cannot see too many drivers using the PP – GTI nor the Golf 7 R’s added grip levels in day to day driving. The DSG auto Golf 7 GTI is a definite improvement over my previous model MK6 Golf GTI, even with DCC and genuine Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport Springs fitted to the older MK6 GTI.

Whether you’re trading up from MK6 to MK7 Golf GTI, eyeing off the PP – GTI or have your heart set on the forthcoming AWD Golf 7 R … when it comes to comparing different types of Volkswagen Golfs, sometimes you don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.

WJ

[MIRSAD]

Thank you WJ

[Brendan_A]

Good read WJ. Thanks! Can't wait to get my new GTI.

[andrew7]

Keep 'Em coming WJ! Dare I say you appear keen to wait for the R before making your purchase decision? (and btw why did you choose the Mk6 GTI over the R?)

[WhiteJames]

Why a MK6 Golf GTI over a MK6 Golf R? There's a whole thread about that. I used to own a well sorted MKV Golf GTI with EA113 motor. Ultimately: the new EA888 motor in the MK6 GTI won me over R with older EA113 motor. Other benefits of the MK6 GTI is the better value, lighter weight, cheaper service costs, nicer looks with polished 18" wheels. Golf R was only a couple of thousand more than my GTI and the R rides better than the Golf GTI. The new Golf 7 R is stated to be about 55K on-road … not sure I'd be willing to spend that much for my type of driving re: value for money. Same applies to the PP - GTI in addition to it being DSG only. I can't see me using the benefits of the LSD in the PP - GTI that often on public roadways. Local dealer states that Golf 7 R will come in manual and DSG … perhaps the manual R will be competitive on price with the PP - GTI. Atm I'm still leaning towards a Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI due to least weight & more engaging drive. My MK6 Golf GTI is not a daily driver atm, same would apply to any new Golf I may purchase. Ideally … I'd like to drive all sports Golf variants back to back, with exception of the Golf 7 GTD, which is not coming to AUS. They do have an R-Line package for the Diesel Golf 103TDI that also includes flat bottomed steering wheel and shift paddles.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

MK6 –v- MK7: Part III


This is now the third part of this review. The third part being the successful sale of my old MK6 Golf GTI with DSG and subsequent purchase of my new White Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI, which I’m currently running in.


Steering:

The steering in Normal and Comfort mode is the same in term of steering weight (i.e. lightness). Comfort & Normal make the steering feel like there is a bit of slack and delay when turning around bends, but feels to be more natural than the firmer setting of Sport. Sport setting for steering seems to want to return to centre to a greater degree than the previous MK6 Golf GTI with DCC in Sport. I’m figuring that this is in part due to the progressive steering rack in the Golf 7 GTI, in additional to a secondary factor of the Golf 7 GTI chassis body being stiffer, the suspension maintaining a much greater level of integrity during corner in terms of scrub, camber & toe change. When running in the Golf 7 GTI travelling up & down through Kangaroo Valley, it would be ideal to have a setting between Comfort/Normal and Sport in terms of steering weight.

The heavier Sport setting of the Golf 7 GTI requires the driver to maintain a definite & firm grip on the steering wheel, with a natural inclination to self centre to a much greater degree than the previous MK6 GTI. In this respect, the earlier MK6 felt a bit more natural and linear in the heavier Sport DCC mode, despite feeling heavier and less direct with less feel compared to the new Golf 7 GTI. The Golf 7 GTI, despite less overall weight of steering in Sport mode, required more effort just of centre and for small adjustment to steering inputs. Thankfully, the Golf 7 GTI drives with a greater fluidity and directness, covering ground and bends with less driver effort nor any need for constant adjustment to steering line.

Currently, I have the ‘Individual Mode’ of the new Golf 7 GTI set to Sport steering, Normal damping rate and engine in Sport. I may change this on the next drive to Sport dampers & Normal steering firmness as the steering just seems have a more natural feel to it in its softer setting.


Motor:

Now that I have spent close to 400km driving the new Golf 7 GTI in a variety of environments, including city, freeway, tourist routes and mountain climbs, I have managed to decipher that there is a difference between Normal engine setting and Sport setting. The Sport is slightly sharper in throttle response. You’re unlikely to notice this on a short drive, but with extra miles under your belt, the difference is discernable. The difference is noting like the difference factored into the earlier MK6 Golf GTI for throttle response, which was ballistic in its turbine spooling speed compared to the linearity of the new Golf 7 GTI.

I’ve been keeping the revs to about 4,000rpm for the first drive and will continue to do so until at least the 1,500km odometer mark. Under load, between 2,000-4,000rpm, the Golf 7 GTI motor sounds very gravelly, very much un-like the racy sound track of the earlier MK6 Golf GTI. The engine note and noise of the new Gold 7 GTI is a disappointment after owning the previous MK6 GTI. Coming down through the Kangaroo Valley and Macquarie’s Pass, just inland of Wollongong, did have the Golf 7 GTI giving hints of the racy soundtrack of the previous MK6 GTI, but this was not under load. Under load, the Golf 7 GTI has taken a step backwards.

You can definitely feel the extra torque down low in the Golf 7 GTI, with the 7 having no issue pulling up reasonably steep gradients in gears as high as 5th, which would have the MK6 struggling.

[WhiteJames]

Chassis:

I opted to purchase the lightest Golf 7 GTI on the market as I figured that the other two variants, Golf GTI PP and Golf R, will both add weight over the front axle. This inhibits initial turn-in into bends, taking agility and the fun factor away. I’ve come to the conclusion that extra weight is basically an 80/20 rule: You’d want the extra grip of the GTI PP or Golf R 20% of the time, the remaining 80% of the time you’re just carrying extra weight you don’t need.

Being mindful that I’m in a gentle run-in phase when driving the Golf 7 GTI, during the steep hill-climbs of Kangaroo Valley didn’t have the XDS+ intervening too obtrusively. GTI PP would be better, but I’d still prefer the lighter front end of the STD GTI that turns in faster & sharper. Going downhill snaking around the myriad of bends, where fast or extreme throttle application is much less required on power out did not have me wanting an LSD of the PP nor the AWD of the Golf R. I’d much prefer the lighter weight of the STD Manual Transmission GTI.

The lighter weight of the STD Golf 7 GTI, especially at the front end in contrast to my previous front heavier MK6 GTI with DSG is a highlight when muscling the new Golf 7 GTI into corners, whether going uphill or downhill. I enjoyed having that more instantaneous turn-in of the chassis, in addition to greater mechanic mid corner grip, ability to stick to and hunt for the mid corner apex and notably improved power out propensity.

One particular corner heading down nearby Mount Kiera, just north of Wollongong, a long downhill sweeper, proved to me just how much better the Golf 7 GTI works the tyres and the reduction in understeer bias over the earlier MK6 GTI. This used to be a great corner in my much older first MKv Golf GTi with aftermarket springs, dampers and H&R adjustable sway bars adjusted for a little bit of oversteer with front bar on soft and rear on hard with the chassis pivoting around the mid-point of the chassis, just like a skier changing direction on a downhill snow slope.

The new Golf 7 GTI is not set up to be as neutral in the chassis, but is getting closer to a neutral chassis balance over that of a standard MK6 GTI, and definitely a lot less understeer biased than the first MKV Golf GTI, Golf R32 and Golf R. The advantage of the Golf 7 GTI is that you don’t have all the negatives that come with aftermarket adjustable sway bars. This corner and similar long constant radius sweeping corners really put a smile on my dial and only cemented my decision to upgrade from MK6 GTI to Golf 7 GTI. It’s also apparent that the tyres are working much better and harder with less tyre scrub with greater composure. The stiffer chassis of the Golf 7 GTI allows for stiffer bushing & a greater degree of consistency in suspension geometry under load & duress. I'd say that the suspension bushing is also stiffer, like going from a MK6 GTI to an Audi TT-RS or similar.

I had the suspension and steering in Sport mode during my drive from the dealership on the North Shore down to the Sutherland Shire to experience the worst that the Golf 7 GTI had to offer in terms of city & urban ride comfort. The ride comfort is much improved over the previous MK6 Golf GTI and certainly liveable at city commuting, although I’d be incline to run the Normal setting which notably improves ride comfort, especially over expansion joints in the roadway. Be mindful that the electronic dampers gain greater force as speed rise in the new Golf 7 GTI – the damping rate does not stay uniform.

Alternatively, the lower end of Kangaroo Valley nearing the township of Nowra had the Golf 7 GTI in Comfort setting due to the poor state of the rough B-grade roadway. The ride refinement is improved with little loss in chassis control. Sometimes the rebound rate is a bit wallowing compared to the compression rate when striking bumps and undulations, but this was apparent in the MK6 Golf GTI with DCC suspension tune … feels like the rebound rate is reduced at twice the rate of the compression rate when going from a harder setting to softer setting for the dampers.

Overall, the Golf 7 GTI makes it much easier work to cover ground than any previous MK6 Golf variant before it, which is less taxing on the driver.


Interior:

The interior ambience is similar to the MK6 Golf. The Bluetooth connection for my iPhone is great and the SatNav has different graphics for day and night, in addition to 2 dimensional flat or vertical views. The stereo quality is similar to the MK6 Golf GTI, perhaps a little better in addition to improve quietness of the Golf 7 GTI interior, despite the intrusion of the gravelly engine note at lower revs when the motor is under load.

Route:

I covered about 360km for my first run-in drive with an average speed of just over 60kph and using 7.5 litres/100km. The economy is nothing to brag about at the moment, but it did involve a city commute and lots of hill-climbs thrown in the mix. Overall, I’m happy with my purchase. I would’ve liked to add the adaptive cruise control, but there was nothing available in AUS with Manual Transmission. A couple of things I need to work out on the new Golf 7 GTI: a. Whether the passenger’s side mirror has a dipping function when the GTI is put into reverse; and, b. Where I can purchase a cord/adaptor to plug in my iPhone into the 3.5mm jack to re-charge my iPhone while driving.

WJ

[Idle]

The left mirror should dip if you move the adjustment switch to the "L" position (at least, my diesel Highline does, so I'd expect a GTI to be the same.)

[tonymy01]

Are you sure some of that "gravelly" engine note you talk about isn't the artificial Soundaktor (assuming the mk7 has one like the mk6, mind you, you say the mk6 sounded racy which also could have been the Soundaktor).

[WhiteJames]

Thermal Dynamics:

The drive from Sutherland Shire to Wollongong, then upwards for the 25km to the township of Robertson, through Macquarie Pass shows the difference in thermal dynamics between the old MK6 Golf GTI and new Golf 7 GTI that has the turbo exhaust manifold cast into the head, which includes water cooling jackets.

The old MK6 Golf GTI oil temperature would fluctuate between about 93 degrees to 115 degrees on this drive. That’s a difference of over 20 degrees in fluctuation in oil temp. The MK6 oil on the highway would generally sit around 95-98 degrees in Sydney weather.

The new Golf oil temp on the same drive fluctuates between 103 degrees to 111 degrees, obviously with the 111 degrees being struck towards the end of the 20 minute hill-climb. That a difference of 8 degrees in the new Golf 7 GTI, much less than the older MK6 version. The Golf 7 GTI oil temp generally seems to run higher & hotter than the old MK6, with oil temp consistently hovering around 106-107 degrees, in both city, highway and tourist route driving.

I think this would be a good thing for turbo longevity with constant oil temps in addition to allowing Volkswagen have higher torque output in the Golf 7 GTI, not to mention consistency of oil quality over the 15,000km service intervals.

It really is a good feat to have the Golf 7 GTI both ride better with greater refinement, despite losing weight, and step up the handling agility over and above the previous MK6 Golf GTI.

I’ll have to have a look at the owner’s manual re: auto dimming mirror function as the dealer was unsure whether the GTI did or didn’t have this function. The small front quarter window was not tinted as this area was too small to adequately tint.

I doubt that the sound actuator is making the gravelly engine note noise as I’ve been keeping the revs under 4,000rpm, which would not engage the sound actuator imo. The engine in the Golf 7 GTI is definitely not as characterful as the motor in the MK6 version.

The Golf 7 GTI sits somewhere between the older MK6 GTI and a Golf GTD, only a lot smoother and linear in power delivery, without the extra weight over the front axle.

WJ

[Paul_R]

Re the dipping left mirror in reverse: you need to adjust the mirrors to where you want them with the car not in reverse then put it in reverse, turn the selector to the left and adjust that mirror to where you want it when it dips. Mirror should then move to that position when in reverse AND the selector in left position. If the selector is in the middle it won't dip when in reverse. That's what the Mk 6 (and wife's CX-9) does anyway.

[mfl]

I always found the steering wheel in the mk6 GTI, one of the best I have used and seen and the engine note a disappointment.

A thinner steering wheel and less racy exhaust note, seems like backward steps in my view, but I get the feeling I am must be on the fringes of GTI owners, as I also want a mechanical handbrake and ESP that can be fully switched off.

[WhiteJames]

It was a bonus to find out that the standard Golf 7 GTI comes with front park sensors in addition to rear park sensors. Additionally, there is a park-pilot function that you switch on if you are driving down a very narrow laneway to assist you in how close the GTI is to other objects, which shows up as a silhouette on the centre info screen.


In regards to the dipping passenger’s side mirror, as earlier stated, the driver has to put the park brake on, turn ignition on, put gear into reverse and the adjust the passenger’s side dipping mirror to help prevent kerb the 18” Austin Wheels.


In addition to this, the Golf 7 GTI requires you to access the ‘CAR’ setup menu on the centre-info screen and choose wipers & mirrors function. Each of the two driver’s key has its own frequency, so the dipping passenger side mirror will have a specific angle depending on which GTI key the driver uses … one for you, another for your partner. The passenger’s side dipping mirror is working as expected. Cheers.


A subsequent drive today was a shorter drive in the afternoon re: running in the Golf 7 GTI. I’m adamant that as many drives as possible within the 1500rpm initial running phase has to involve some form of hill-climb. This is to ensure that I will not have to put oil into the Golf 7 GTI between service intervals.


I believe in following the owner’s manual for the run in phase, rather than thrashing the motor hard, as high revs may result in washing out the cylinders as the motor may dump excess fuel at high revs to keep the turbine cool. This may wash out oil from under the rings, possible scorching the bore. Keep revs low and loading up the motor up-hills is more prudent imo.


Three runs up and down to the Boat Shed in the Royal National Park, just south of Sydney was done with driving modes in Normal, Sport and Comfort settings, one after another. This gave me an opportunity to compare the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with the demonstrator Golf 7 GTI with DSG I drove a few weeks back.


Earlier on, the Golf 7 GTi with DSG with 2-up occupants (salesman and I) had the XDS differential pinching the inside front wheel shifting power to the out-board front driving wheel from apex to corner exit. This was apparent on both downhill and uphill drives.

XDS intervention was less apparent on my new Golf 7 GTI with Manual Transmission. It appears that the slightly heavier DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI which more than likely involves slightly higher front spring rate seems to have the XDS electronic pseudo diff lending more proactive support around bends. We’re not talking a great degree, subtle although notable differences in XDS operation between DSG and MT. One extra occupant on board may also have contributed to tendency of XDS to intervene more so in the DSG Golf 7 GTI.


The DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI, with extra weight of the DSG up front and most probably slightly heavier rate front springs did require a bit of extra effort to tip into the corners, with a tendency towards a little more under-steer into corners, making the drive less fluid than in my Manual Trans Golf 7 GTI. It’s not going to be a deal breaker, but prospective owners should drive both DSG and Manual Trans to be sure. It does feel to me that the stated difference of 13kgs extra weight of the DSG up front is apparent, and at times feels more to be 15-20kgs as is the case with the difference in weight between the MK6 DSG and Manual Trans GTI’s.


The slightly lighter front end of the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with an apparent slightly less spring rate at the front end is that bit more agile, both handling better with a touch better ride quality. The Manual Golf 7 GTI feels to roll onto the outside front wheel a little more, allowing for that bit more turn-in bite into bends and a greater amount of fluidity right through the bend. This was expected and no different to the earlier GTI examples (MKV, MK6) when comparing DSG –v- MT. Despite the slight differences between the DSG and MT Golf 7 GTI’s, the XDS appears to be more proactive in the Golf 7 GTI regardless of the transmission type when comparing against the previous MK6 Golf GTI.

In comparison with the earlier MK6 Golf GTI: the earlier MK6 Golf GTI moves around to a greater degree from a mechanical perspective, even with DCC fitted to the MK6. The driver feels the heavier front nose into corners and then the rear sway bar compensating with some lateral force to aid the nose around corners once the chassis takes a moment to settle on the outside tyres. The movement of the front and rear is more pronounced in the older MK6 Golf GTI.

The Golf 7 GTI offers much less feeling of suspension movement due to greater composure and a more balanced chassis. Whereas the heavier MK6 Golf GTI seems to have an initial firmer spring rate, once lateral forces start to build, feels softer & moves around more so. The Golf 7 GTI feels to have an advantage in that the lighter chassis allows for a more uniform spring rate that improves in the reduction of body roll, while at the same time offer a smoother & more comfort ride. The springs in concert with the lighter weight seem to contain the Golf 7 GTI chassis to a far greater degree.

Overall, I would not say that the Golf 7 GTI suspension tune is tuned to be firmer than the earlier MK6 Golf GTI. I wouldn’t say that the Golf 7 GTI suspension tune is more inert either, as can be the case with the much heavier harder-core hatches such as the Audi RS3/Merc A45 AMG that can be more track focused. The Golf 7 GTI is just more focused, stable and with less tendency to under-steer and greater stability in the rear end esp. in the operation of the rear sway bar. The driver is able to perceive that the wheelbase is longer in the Golf 7 GTI, adding in extra stability during cornering. Tightening the line on closing radius corners does not have the rear sway bar on the Golf 7 GTI working nearly as hard as the older MK6 Golf GTI, but at the same time making greater progress with less driver effort.

The Golf 7 GTI was sounding better on this steeply graded route in regards to motor acoustics, showing some traits of racy type of sounds, but never completely losing that low pitched gravelly engine note.

The highlight of the three running-in motor drives down to the Boat Shed was when having the Golf 7 GTI in Sport setting, where handling and performance is more akin to the harder-core Renault Megane RS265, with the exception of the Steering in Sport setting, which feels to be a tad sticky around centre with a desire to consistency return to centre. The MK6 GTI with DCC had this propensity, but not as pronounced. I guess it’s to protect the driver from oversteering into a corner with the firmer damping of the chassis & greater tyre/mechanical grip of the new Golf 7 chassis, which points into corners faster than the MK6. The Sport setting also reduced noise when the suspension struck a change-of-surface bitumen bump on one particular corner when going up-hill –v- compared to the softer Normal and Comfort settings.

Based on my vague memory, three Boat Shed runs up and down in the MK6 Golf GTI, one for each of the three DCC settings, had fuel economy readings of about 13.3 litres/100km. The Golf 7 GTI did today’s three runs up and down the hill-cliimb with a fuel economy reading of 11.2 litres/100km, although this was with a 4,000rpm rev limit. The Golf 7 GTI appears to warm a bit faster than the MK6 in terms of oil temperature.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

A few other things I’ve noted about the new Golf 7 GTI:

The Golf 7 GTI is easier to place to the roadway than the previous model MKV and MK6 Golf GTI’s. The MKV was the worst to place on the roadway, with heaps of factory induced understeer & body roll. The MK6 with XDS and stiffer rear sway bar was greatly improved for driver ease of placement. The MK6 with DCC is much better again in terms of placing the GTI exactly where you want it. The Golf 7 GTI is so much easier to place than all preceding GTi models.

Traversing around the mountainous roadways over the past few days, I have not struck one cats-eye on my side of the roadway, as the Golf 7 GTI offers greater directness and sharpness when placing it on the roadway around corners, I guess this can be attributed to the progressive steering, lighter weight, longer chassis footprint, less under-steer and more proactive XDS system. It’s not all good though.

I’ve gleaned that the XDS system in the Golf 7 GTI is also more proactive than the previous model GTI in damp conditions, with moist & damp to wet roadways. It’s not a stability ESC type of engagement, but a proactive dab of the front and sometimes rear brakes to aid the Golf 7 GTI into corners. I’m forming the opinion that due to the extra focus in the 7 chassis, in concert with lighter weight & greater mechanical & effective tyre grip, everything happens quite a bit faster in the Golf 7 GTI in comparison to previous models.

I think Volkswagen have taken that into consideration when developing the XDS/ESC functions on the Golf 7 GTI. Be mindful that the proactive XDS/ESC nudges do occur on entry into bends, which I cannot see changing in the other variants such as the PP GTI and Golf 7 R. This does take a bit away from the driver’s ability to muscle the Golf around a series of bends. If you want the ultimate in driver involvement, look elsewhere. Thankfully, the Golf 7 GTI makes up for the loss in ultimate driver engagement in added refinement imo.


The higher geared manual transmission Golf 7 GTI on the highway on a slight to moderate incline at about 100kph will struggle to increase speed on light throttle application in 6th gear. The port injection may also have something to do with this in addition to the long final 6th gear ratio of the manual transmission Golf 7 GTI. I’d agree with some media reports that the DSG version of the Golf 7 GTI would do a better job of masking this, in addition to being slightly lower geared for the top 6th gear ratio.


In damp to wet conditions, I’ve found that Sport setting is more fun going uphill during mountain climbs as the Sport setting encourages the driver to be a bit more ham-fisted. Normal setting for coming down the mountain-side in damp to wet conditions, allowing for that bit more chassis movement & articulation adding driver awareness and feel, in addition to slightly more natural steering, feel for lower-grip situations. In the dry, Sport setting is the one to go for to carve up and down the hilly terrain.

The manual transmission Golf 7 GTI is more involving than the DSG. This requires more focus from the driver, which in turn keeps the driver from letting the GTI get away from you in terms to sticking at or below the speed limit, especially on downhill runs. Going uphill, you do lose 5-10kph during gear-changes in the manual, which aids the driver to keep an eye on the speedometer.

Finally:

I’m going to ask you guys to do the arithmetic when vying for that empty gap in traffic. Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission with 350Nm at a lowly1500rpm weighing in at 1213kgs (maybe 1-2 kilos more with window tint) … or … Ray’s almost fully optioned MK6 Golf R DSG with 330Nm at a higher 2200rpm weighing in at around 1500kgs?

Which vehicle is most likely to secure that empty traffic spot?

WJ

[WhiteJames]

When looking for a new Golf 7 GTI, considered either White or Black colour. Greater availability of White in my spec ... so White it is. Therefore get to keep the user name of WhiteJames. White also contrasts nicely with the Carbon window tint.

See pictures of the new White Golf 7 GTI on post #511 of page 24: WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - Page 24 - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com (http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863&page=24) .

WJ

[Diesel_vert]

I’m going to ask you guys to do the arithmetic when vying for that empty gap in traffic. Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission with 350Nm at a lowly1500rpm weighing in at 1213kgs (maybe 1-2 kilos more with window tint) … or … Ray’s almost fully optioned MK6 Golf R DSG with 330Nm at a higher 2200rpm weighing in at around 1500kgs?

Which vehicle is most likely to secure that empty traffic spot?

Despite the power advantage, faster 0-100 km/h time and faster shift times (DSG) in Ray's car, I'll give the nod to your GTI because of its power-to-weight ratio advantage, especially for rolling starts below 5000 RPM.

However, the results may vary depending on any significant differences in gearing and traction issues. I also assume that the DSG in Ray's car was prevented from automatically downshifting into the lowest gear available.

[AdamD]

However, the results may vary depending on any significant differences in gearing and traction issues. I also assume that the DSG in Ray's car was prevented from automatically downshifting into the lowest gear available.

Why assume the DSG can't shift down if the manual can? My money's on the R, especially if a downshift (from cruising gear to lowest possible gear) is involved. And once the R is beyond 2200rpm and is closer to peak power, it'll walk away. Otherwise, based solely on tractability in a high gear from near-idle, the GTI will have it over a short distance.

The Mk7 R may rectify this situation, as long as the final Australian spec isn't too heavy. Mind you, journos haven't been too positive about the new S3's lack of lag thus far, so who knows.

[Tom87]

I always found the steering wheel in the mk6 GTI, one of the best I have used and seen and the engine note a disappointment.

A thinner steering wheel and less racy exhaust note, seems like backward steps in my view, but I get the feeling I am must be on the fringes of GTI owners, as I also want a mechanical handbrake and ESP that can be fully switched off.
I agree with you on the handbrake and ESP, electronics should be able to be killed off completely for people who want to try and pretend they can drive (like me haha) in a controlled environment. How the hell do you do a ful sik handbrakie on gravel or grass with an electric handbrake? haha

but the steering wheel..not so sure, i was not a fan of the mk VI steering wheel. Too thick and the perforated leather was put in the wrong spots. The MkV steering wheel to my hands is much nicer than the VI, and from just sitting in the mkVII I would agree it looks a bit thin but the hands on feel is surprisingly good.

It is about time the Golf received a steering rack which actually suited the flat bottom steering wheel.... Having a flat bottom wheel with a normal road car steering rack isn't particularly exhilarating...particularly when you're busy doing other required city things like eating and drinking lattes.

[Tom87]

On that note, to the OP, Dear WhiteJames, can you please rate the cupholders in the Mk7? Are they a significant improvement over the Mk5/6 ? Specifically for holding a traditional 8 oz takeaway coffee cup?

I find in the older models the cup tends to spill too readily even on rough roads. I don't believe they cradle the cup properly.

[Diesel_vert]

Why assume the DSG can't shift down if the manual can? My money's on the R, especially if a downshift (from cruising gear to lowest possible gear) is involved. And once the R is beyond 2200rpm and is closer to peak power, it'll walk away. Otherwise, based solely on tractability in a high gear from near-idle, the GTI will have it over a short distance.

If the drivers of both cars instantly floored it, the DSG would simply downshift into the lowest available gear and win, unless WJ does likewise in his GTI.

The GTI produces the same amount of power as the R until 4500 RPM (which then flatlines until 6000 RPM), but the R continues to produce power until it reaches 6000 RPM. This, along with AWD, explains why the R should be faster from 0 - 100 km/h.

However, the R is 183 kg (tare weight) heavier than the GTI, and due to its power-to-weight ratio, it is the GTI that will most likely "secure that empty traffic spot", especially below 5000 RPM.

In theory.



Time for WJ (with his friend assisting) to conduct a experiment, perhaps? All in the name of science, of course...

[WhiteJames]

Originally, I was looking at purchasing a Golf 7 GTI Manual Transmission (MT) with (PP) Power-Pack (LSD) on better-riding 18 wheels without DCC. My intention was to install a set of genuine Volkswagen Driver Gear Sports lowering springs + Bilstein Sport dampers to sharpen up the handling of the Golf 7 GTI PP. Volkswagen have thwarted my plans by failing to bring a Manual Transmission GTI PP without DCC. Looks like all GTI’s, Golf R’s and Sicrocco’s will come with DCC standard.

After finding out that the GTI PP comes with DSG only, which adds further weight to the already 32kgs of the LSD including larger brakes, in addition to the GTI PP also coming with options I didn’t need, nor want such as Bi-Xenons, fancy rear ligthts and in particular rougher riding 19” wheels … my attention turned to the standard spec Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI as it was the lightest and most agile GTI for everyday normal use, provided you stay under 9/10ths.

Being an owner of a new Golf 7 GTI, I’m not so sure that the Golf 7 GTI needs a set of VW Driver Gear (DG) Sport lowering springs with factory DCC dampers. The ride of the standard Golf 7 GTI is very good, the low speed compression damping rate patter & incessant bobbing up/down at higher speeds on the highway is not so much an issue in the Golf 7 GTI as it was in the previous MK6 Golf GTI, which was required to be stiffer due to greater weight and higher CoG.

I doubt that genuine Volkswagen DG Sport lowering springs would offer a great amount of increase in spring rate as the Golf 7 GTI, in particular the manual transmission standard Golf 7 GTI, is a lighter vehicle, therefore not requiring too much of an increase in spring rate for slightly lower ride height. The extra front negative camber of the Golf 7 GTI DG Sport springs would come in handy for cornering in the dry, but you’d lose a bit of public roadway lower chassis adjustability, which the Golf 7 GTI doesn’t have that much of as it’s so composed & taut compared to the previous MK6 Golf GTI.

Be mindful that the ultimate hot-hatches such as the Audi RS3/Merc A45 AMG do not often win comparison tests when tested on the public roadways as they are so focused, rigid, stiff and heavy, taking a bit away from driver involvement & engagement at lower public roadway speeds re: lowering & stiffening up the suspension on the new Golf 7 GTI. I prefer that light-on-your-feet fluid & agile handing of a vehicle with less weight.

I don’t miss the DSG stutter at car park speeds & on hills, although the DSG in the new Golf 7 GTI seems to have improved re: low speed stutter, feeling smoother at carpark speeds & reversing. In the wider context, all variants of the Golf, whether they be Golf 7 GTI standard, PP or Golf R … will all understeer from 9/10ths and above and especially in damp conditions.

On first inspection, the centre console cup holders look a bit cheap with the spring-loaded nodes that jut out from the lower grade plastic cup housing. The cup-holders with the sprung weight of the nodes does a better job of holding water bottles and the cup-holders also appear to be slightly deeper. I haven’t tried coffee cups yet, but various types of water bottles are adequately held, even when snaking around the tight-twisties, and work bette than the cup-holdes in the MKV and MK6 Golf’s.

The centre console compartment has much more room than the previous MK6 with factory MDI fitment. Best of all, there is a red stripe along the inside door trims and on the lower foot sills. The red lines illuminate in the night, defining the boundaries of the door & door sills. The red stripe looks really cool at night in the dark. I also like that you sit lower with a lower dash cowl.

The MK6 Golf R –v- Golf 7 GTI debate is an interesting one. Regardless of the size of wheel & tyre put on the MK6 Golf GTI/R, you will not have the rigidity of the chassis, nor the suspension integrity, nor the mechanical grip that the new Golf 7 offers. The MK6 feels like it’s a runner with good shoes, but weak ligaments failing to keep the chassis taut and not using or pushing the tyre as hard into the ground compared to the Golf 7 GTI.

I may have to take Ray up on his offer for a drive of his almost fully loaded MK6 Golf R DSG to test more than just the suspension noise and chassis B-pillar chassis-torqueing on big one wheel hits. Ray is interested in test driving the new generation Audi S3, which he should. Although Audi S3 vehicles do not offer great resale value for the money you pay, especially if you like your bells & whistles on your ride as Ray does. It’s important to note extras such as 19” wheels, sunroof, leather electric adjustable seats, all adds extra weight to a heavier MK6 Golf R.

Flicking through the owner’s manual, it’s interesting to note that my Golf 7 GTI has a built in lap-timer incorporated into the centre dash infotainment/SatNav/Radio/Car Controller screen, not that I’d plan on using it. Volkswagen may be able to download this info later on if an issue arises I’d imagine.

Here's a review between the Focus ST, Megane RS265 and Standard Golf GTI. The Golf GTI claws back some ground to the RenaultSport RS265 in terms focus and ability:

Hot hatch comparison: Volkswagen Golf GTI v Ford Focus ST v Renault Sport Megane 265 |Â*CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/259081/hot-hatch-comparison-vw-golf-gti-v-ford-focus-st/)

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

What did the service manager have to say about Ray's R issues? I imagine Ray is gutted he did not wait for a base model GTI!

[WhiteJames]

No. Ray wants to test drive the new Audi S3, which is basically a slightly lighter & more premium version of the forthcoming Golf 7 R. The local head mechanic has told Ray exactly the same thing I have re: B-pillar noise on big-hit one wheel bumps ... 'nothing you can do about it'. Our local dealer head mechanic also owns a MK6 Golf R with 19" wheels.
WJ

[magellan]

No. Ray wants to test drive the new Audi S3, which is basically a slightly lighter & more premium version of the forthcoming Golf 7 R. The local head mechanic has told Ray exactly the same thing I have re: B-pillar noise on big-hit one wheel bumps ... 'nothing you can do about it'. Our local dealer head mechanic also owns a MK6 Golf R with 19" wheels.
WJ

Are you sure it is the B-pillar? I had a similar noise which turned out to the rear passenger door lining. If you open the rear door and tap your fist down on the arm rest how tight does it sound? I ended up wedging a piece of rubber at the bottom between the lining and door.

[spellbound]

I always found the steering wheel in the mk6 GTI, one of the best I have used and seen and the engine note a disappointment.

A thinner steering wheel and less racy exhaust note, seems like backward steps in my view, but I get the feeling I am must be on the fringes of GTI owners, as I also want a mechanical handbrake and ESP that can be fully switched off.

I disconnected the soundaktor and rid myself of the fake sounds , much more pleasant drive , just drop the windows and roof to hear the real sound , commuting is far better , the 7 has a new variation .

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Ray is thinking of trading the four week old R for an S3? It took Ray five years to lose the R32. And still he can't find a better motor than the base model GTI. I doubt the S3 will change that. What are your thoughts WJ?

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Twenty minutes driving round Mascot should be enough to confirm the S3 as a base model GTI wannabe.

[Longy]

Twenty minutes driving round Mascot should be enough to confirm the S3 as a base model GTI wannabe.

Well, he would have to wait, as the S3 isn't released until the 9th of Dec.

So you're saying the S3 and upcoming Golf mk 7 R isn't as good as a GTI? But it has a price premium of $15k more?

From all reviews I've read, the S3 is superb car.

[sameatworld]

Well, he would have to wait, as the S3 isn't released until the 9th of Dec.

So you're saying the S3 and upcoming Golf mk 7 R isn't as good as a GTI? But it has a price premium of $15k more?

From all reviews I've read, the S3 is superb car.


I think he is predicting what someone would be writing once he drives the surely to be underwhelming s3. Anything to justify their latest purchase...

[Cantgiveyouthat]

^^^^^^^ This guy gets it

[Cantgiveyouthat]

I will be having a go in the S3 as well......when it arrives. :)

[Ideo]

Wow. Really detailed stuff.

Cheers for the write up.

Seems to me that despite the generational styling changes (i.e. minor) the whole package has been really improved on.

[WhiteJames]

Cruising on the freeway at a steady 115kph indicated on the speedo in 6th gear (actual speed being more like 110kph) in the previous MK6 Golf GTI had the revs sitting between 2750-2800 rpm based on my vague memory. The new Golf 7 GTI with Manual Transmission has the revs sitting at 2500rpm at the same speed in top gear. Good for added fuel economy.

The Golf 7 GTI in 6th gear with cruise control activated for a short time on gentle to slightly moderate incline hills has no drama pulling forward. Slight throttle application increases in the Golf 7 GTI are not as responsive as initial application in the older MK6 GTI, part due to higher gearing, part due to the port injection of the Golf 7 GTI in the midrange. No need to be concerned about the Golf 7 GTI’s pulling capacity in top gear. The immense low-end torque does feel a bit more diesel like when chugging away on the highway, not a bad thing in my opinion for long interstate trips as diesel motors make for better & more relaxed cruisers.

Running in the new Golf 7 GTI through the hills & valleys inland of the South Coast of Sydney-Wollongong area, I’ve managed to glean that part of the reason that the Golf 7 GTI is so much easier to drive is that the power delivery & turbo spooling time to max boost is much more linear than the previous MK6 GTI. The MK6 GTI turbo spools up really quickly re: boost pressure & power delivery & then running out of puff sooner. This always made the MK6 GTI difficult to modulate on the throttle on initial bursts out or corners, creating a feeling that the MK6 GTI always wanted to get away from you, in addition to a less composed chassis composure & less direct steering. The MK6 GTI was a lot harder work than the new Golf 7 GTI traversing the same route.

It seems like the Golf 7 GTI power delivery is deliberately tuned to be much more linear to cope with all that extra 70Nm of torque. The low-end torque makes the Golf 7 GTI a seriously effective instrument when overtaking on B-grade tourist roadways. I always thought the MK6 GTI was good in this regard with the instant & fast spooling turbine thrust. The Golf 7 GTI makes it so much easier, with less effort and takes the in-gear pace increase to another level. Passing two to three vehicles at one time knocking down from 6th to 4th is an absolute breeze on part throttle.

In terms of thermal dynamics, on Friday late morning on a sunny day with higher temperate, I saw up to 114 degrees max oil temp when climbing Macquarie’s Pass, stuck behind some traffic, about the same as I’ve seen on the MK6 GTI on a similar day in the same conditions. The lowest oil temp I’ve seen on the Golf 7 GTI is 103 degrees, as opposed to seeing about 93 degrees on the MK6 GTI this time of year.

Even though the Golf 7 GTI is generally running hotter (107-109 degrees) than the MK6 GTI, I think the improved thermal dynamics of the Golf 7 GTI in terms of the variance between the min & max oil temps is a good thing for the harder core types that wish to follow the enhanced power route while still maintaining greater level of reliability. Standard power supply is more than enough for me.

During this run in phase on the Golf 7 GTI, I continually disengage the stop/start system & will continue to do so until about 1500km mileage. It’s a bit annoying to have to constantly switch it off every time you start the motor for the time being.

One disappointment of the Golf 7 GTI is that the centre dash infotainment streams music directly from my iPhone via Bluetooth. This drains my phone on longer drives. I’ve had to purchase a USB to 30 point jacket cable + cigarette style power charger and cord with USB adaptor to re-charge my iPhone while on the move. The in-car charger is situated on the centre console, which makes all the exposed cables look a bit unsightly. The MK6 GTI MDI cable housed within the centre armrest compartment was a neater way of charging the mobile phone.

In respect to the XDS pseudo electronic diff. I found that XDS is more likely to interfere if your corner entry speed is too fast & narrow or your sloppy with your driving lines. Keep the lines nice and smooth with smooth throttle application and the Golf 7 GTI is deceptively potent out in the real world without too much XDS interference. I’ve also come to the realization that being an owner of two previous GTI’s with DSG auto-gearboxes has made my driving sloppy. I have to remind myself to do all my braking and downward gear changes in a straight line with the manual transmission before the entering into corners. The DSG has made it all so easy over the past 8 years with throttle blips and all.

Weight and handling is an area that I put a lot of weight on when shopping for a vehicle. I was sold on the Golf 7 GTI within the first few km’s as Volkswagen have come closer to the holy grail of suspension & chassis engineering: improving both ride refinement/comfort & handling agility. A very difficult thing to do. There was no dithering or overanalysing over the decision to upgrade. This is one way of looking at things.

On the other hand, Ray being an accountant looks at things from a different perspective. That perspective being in terms of debits/credits and assets/liabilities. Extra features being credits & assets at a certain price point. - features such optional sunroof, bigger wheels, leather, Bi-Xenons, SatNav, DSG, AWD etc. It’s a more clinical approach to purchasing a car that landed him a demo almost superseded MK6 Golf R model. I’d prefer to add another category of accounting … call it 'goodwill' if you like. That goodwill being driver enjoyment, handling & refinement/comfort and feel good factor … in other words, things that are often difficult to quantify using raw analytical data or price-points to justify that data. Things that make the Golf 7 GTI so much better than the previous MK6 Golf.

Resale value of all MK6 Golf GTI’s and MK6 Golf R’s have taken a bath. At the time I purchased my new Golf 7 GTI, two dealers I enquired with had an excess of stock of brand new MK6 Golf GTI’s on hand. One dealer had six in their holding yard, the other had ten brand new MK6 Golf GTI’s on hand: all with leather, 18” wheels, DSG and metallic paint for immediate delivery. I imagine that these brand new examples would be selling for about 40K drive-away with full 3 year warranty, which makes it difficult to ask for anything above 30K for a well-optioned second hand MK6 GTI or second-hand low spec MK6 Golf R.

Attached are a couple of links: one link for NRMA best sports hatch under 50K, being the new Golf 7 GTI. No surprises there. The other being drive.com Focus ST –v- Golf 7 GTI where it is stated that the Golf 7 GTI is about 100kgs lighter than the Focus ST, which makes the Golf 7 GTI feel much lighter on its feet in terms of agility, the very reason I went for the lightest version of the Golf 7 GTI.

Australia's Best Cars winners | NRMA Motoring & Services (http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/best-car-australia.htm)

Ford Focus ST v Volkswagen Golf GTI head to head (http://news.drive.com.au/drive/new-car-comparison/ford-focus-st-v-volkswagen-golf-gti-head-to-head-20131114-2xiwo.html)

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Hi again WJ.

There are a couple of paragraphs in there regarding thermal dynamics. What exactly are you saying? The car runs hotter and this is a good thing. Why? My basic science class makes me curious about this claim.

Cheers

[WhiteJames]

Helps reduce friction losses. This is aided by a more efficient cooling system.

There's a bit of info on the cooling system here:

Volkswagen Golf 7 GTI Press Materials - VWVortex (http://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswagen-news/volkswagen-golf-7-gti-press-materials/)

Speaking of friction: Now that I have clocked well over 1100km for the run-in phase around the hills & valleys of the tourist routes, a few more pics of my White GTI. It's dirtied up a bit with all the rain in Sydney recently, but all good. Motor has loosen up a bit, so I may look at touching 4500rpm max revs on occasion.

http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100863&page=24

WJ

[emufriedchicken]

At a dealer putting in my order for a new Mk7 the other day and 3 things that stood out the most for me that is maybe a slight backwards step in Mk7 to my Mk6 is.

The boot is smaller. The floor is not as deep as my Mk6.

The seats don't look as good or sporty as the Mk6 ( but this is just a personal thing)

The battery cover in the Mk7 is a woeful bit of flappy cardboard. Mk6 has a nice ABS plastic cover. It probably has something to do with saving weight and costs????

Hopefully pick my new one up on Monday...!

[Brendan_A]

At a dealer putting in my order for a new Mk7 the other day and 3 things that stood out the most for me that is maybe a slight backwards step in Mk7 to my Mk6 is.

The boot is smaller. The floor is not as deep as my Mk6.

The seats don't look as good or sporty as the Mk6 ( but this is just a personal thing)

The battery cover in the Mk7 is a woeful bit of flappy cardboard. Mk6 has a nice ABS plastic cover. It probably has something to do with saving weight and costs????

Hopefully pick my new one up on Monday...!

How is the boot smaller?

Mk7 has 380 liters where mk6 had 350. And you can adjust the height of the floor in the boot.

[mfl]

The seats don't look as good or sporty as the Mk6 ( but this is just a personal thing)


I agree the change in headrest design, makes the seats look more common.

[emufriedchicken]

When we parked my Mk6 next to a Mk7 and opened the boots to compare the Mk7 is definitely smaller...I think VW are pulling our chains with the bigger boot crap. I cant see how you can drop the floor down of the boot with the rear parcel shelf sitting underneath it. Well that's what the dealer showed me anyway.

And yes its definitely the headrest design that makes the new seats look poverty pack!!!

[Brendan_A]

Well the measurements say the mk7 is bigger.

If you don't like it that much, why are you buying one??

[emufriedchicken]

The measurements are wrong...especially when you have them parked side by side less than a meter apart and have 4 other people ( including the dealer principal) observing the same issue as you.

I didn't say I didn't like it, I just pointed out 3 areas the Mk6 is better than the Mk7 that really should have carried over for a newer model. There are more things on a Mk7 that I prefer than the mk6.

[Brendan_A]

So you have ran a tape measure over the two?

I'm going to measure them next time I'm down at my dealer:)

[Mountainman]

When we parked my Mk6 next to a Mk7 and opened the boots to compare the Mk7 is definitely smaller...I think VW are pulling our chains with the bigger boot crap. I cant see how you can drop the floor down of the boot with the rear parcel shelf sitting underneath it.
As a former owner of a Mk6 and now the Mk7 I can ell you that the Mk7 definitely has the bigger boot. It might be slightly smaller with the floor raised if you want to store the shelf underneath (couldn't do that with the Mk6) but 90% of the time we have the floor lowered and it takes a bit more than the Mk6 could.

[Brendan_A]

Thank you Moutainman for clearing that up!

Looks can be deceiving.

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Thank you for the pointer WJ. I did not read that the engine runs at a hotter temperature, but I may have interpreted the article incorrectly or indeed differently to you. I get the impression that you read all the euro articles and then rewrite them with a personal twist. It's not hurting anyone, but it is a bit weird. The Ray thing is proper weird.

I am glad you are pleased with your new car, as I would be; however, this crushing need to justify your purchase is ridiculous.

[Jimi]

It sounds like he just made a well informed purchase to me. He'd driven both before he bought, it's not like he just shot from he hip, bought a mk7 and then tried to defend it

[tonymy01]

I read it like he is a wannabe journalist, and journalists report on what people want to hear, and the near #1 thing most MK6 owners want to know is just how much better the MK7 is, whether to update etc.
Yes the Ray thing is weird :) perhaps could have said "an associate just purchased blah blah" rather than "neighbour Ray" as none of us care if he is a neighbour or what his name is.

[readerr0r]

Has anyone been tempted by the A3 1.8t Quattro? Carsales seems to show most dealers are listing them for about 3-5K below their retail, you can get an S-Line for not much more than a DSG GTI and 6.8 0-100 isn't bad since it has awd.

[SuperHans]

Has anyone been tempted by the A3 1.8t Quattro? Carsales seems to show most dealers are listing them for about 3-5K below their retail, you can get an S-Line for not much more than a DSG GTI and 6.8 0-100 isn't bad since it has awd.


Its a good price sure, but despite the impressive figures on paper, it doesn't drive, sound or feel anything like the GTI - it feels much more like a 103TSI golf (and even I thought the golf was better tbh)

[WhiteJames]

ESC: Normal –v- Sport

The ESC setting is, like just about everything else on the Golf 7 GTI, accessed via the infotainment centre dash touch screen ‘CAR’ menu. Now that the crucial 1,000km run-in period is over and I’m nearing the 1500km mark on the odometer, I conducted some back to back runs, putting the new Golf 7 GTI Manual into ESC in standard default ‘Normal’ setting and ESC in ‘Sport’ setting.

The drive in the dry was conducted with 4 back-to-back runs with ESC in its default Normal setting, one each for Normal, Sport, Comfort and Individual. Later, another 4 runs with ESC setting in Sport mode were in the same manner: Normal, Sport, Comfort and finally Individual. I’ve made a change to my Individual setting, opting for Normal/Comfort steering, Sport dampers for flat grippy handling, and Sport for throttle sensitivity. I think that the Sport throttle application may change the engine note sound actuator, but can’t say definitely at this point in time (need more miles to be sure).

Playing with the throttle when driving around bends in the Normal default ESC setting has the Golf 7 GTI feeling a bit constricted in terms of exploring the chassis balance and grip levels. The XDS pseudo electronic diff always feels that bit too proactive during corning, with the front inside and inside rear brakes being pinched, vectoring the Golf 7 GTI into turns to keep it on its intended line around bends. It appears that the inside rear wheel is pinched going into bends, which helps set the Golf 7 GTI to point sharply into corners, rather than relying on the mechanical sway bars as was the case in the MK6 Golf GTI. As stated earlier, the proactive XDS/vectoring is a little more noticeable in the DSG version Golf 7 GTI over the Manual-Transmission version & definitely more noticeable in the Golf 7 GTI when contrasted with the MK6 Golf GTI.

There was no real compulsion to disengage the ESC button on the previous MK6 Golf GTI as the MK6 offered plenty of slack with all stability control mechanisms activated, with or without DG Sport springs. Alternatively, the MK6 Golf GTI didn’t offer as much tyre or chassis grip. The MK6 GTI often pinches the front wheel to drag the vehicle further into the corner to limit undertsteer, but without any vectoring of the rear brake as occurs on the Golf 7.

The Golf 7 GTI with all stability control aids switched on in their Normal default setting does not allow the chassis the freedom to roll & lean hard enough on the Dunlop Sport Maxx GT asymmetrical tyres’ harder compound outside sidewalls. XDS pseudo diff and brake vectoring at the rear end of the Golf 7 interferes to electronically adjust the vehicle’s intended line & interrupt the fluidity of the mechanical process of a vehicle about to lean on it’s springs.

My experience with asymmetrical tyres in the past is that they tend to move around a little bit, then firm up once the tyre starts to fold over onto the striffer outer tread block, which returns some grip and stability to the vehicle during cornering.

[WhiteJames]

ESC Sport mode illuminates the annoying to look at icon within the dash speedometer. ESC Sport setting allows greater freedom to more adequately explore the goodness and natural state of the Golf 7 GTI chassis, removing that veil between driver and machine and riding the Golf 7 GTI of the crimping & vectoring feeling during cornering, that fails to completely utilizing the available grip of the tyres.

The ESC Sport setting reduction in proactive electronic interference makes it more demanding for the driver to work the Golf 7 GTI into and out of bends, while at the same time allowing for a more natural progression into and out of corners that is much more fluid. The driver is able to get back to the basics of driving as an art.

ESC Sport also allows the driver to carry greater pace into and out of corner in addition to permitting greater acceleration around apex, providing the driver with the ability to delve deeper into the recess of the Golf 7 GTI chassis ability . The end result is exploring a really fine balanced chassis that is progressive with great mechanical grip that by far allows the driver to test the surprisingly better than expected SP Dunlop Sport Maxx GT Asymmetrical tyre grip levels. ESC in Sport setting not only makes the chassis feel more natural, but improves the steering feeling with less XDS corruption.

The fun factor with ESC Sport is definitely improved, so much so, Sport setting is bringing the Golf 7 GTI fun factor much closer to it’s main rival potential ownership rival, the BRZ/FT86 Coupe twins, when snaking around the tight twisting mountainous roadways. The twin coupes will always have a greater driver/machine connection, but the Golf 7 GTI with ESC Sport setting has a fun factor elevates it to near enough for the driver to walk away with a big grin on this face, without having to endure the negatives of owning a specialized coupe.

The Sport setting for ESC on the Golf 7 GTI imo offers more than enough fun for public roadway use. The grip levels of the Golf 7 GTI are quite a bit higher than the outgoing MK6 Golf. The Golf 7 GTI grip levels are unlikely to be breached in dry weather public roadway driving, not unless your going seriously & stupidly fast or you’re seriously inept. I didn’t feel any need for a completely off/disengagement of the ESC stability function setting, not for having fun on the public roadway at public roadway speeds. The ESC Sport setting also permits greater freedom for power down wheel slippage out of corner or in a straight line.

After conducting my back-to-back ESC Normal –v- ESC Sport review for the Golf 7, it started to rain down. With the inclement weather, I made a B-Line for Garie Beach deep within the Royal National Park (RNP), between Sydney and Wollongong. Access to the RNP is very convenient when you live in the Sutherland Shire.

Garie Beach Road snakes down to the beach, and is generally known for its less grippy coarse chip bitumen surface with a mix of low to moderate speed bends and switchbacks. Some corners have up to 3 different surface textures within the one bend, all with varied grip levels. The last time I drove this route in wet conditions was immediately after I fitted a set of Vollkswagen Driver Gear (DG) Sport Springs to my previous MK6 Golf GTI. In this regard, we’re comparing apples with apples re: grip levels of MK6 –v- Golf 7.

Powering up the wet hillside with 350Nm at my disposal in the Golf 7 GTI showed up enhanced grip levels over and above the MK6 Golf GTI. No doubts about it. Part due to new fancy Golf 7 asymmetrical tyres, improved ESC Sport and XDS calibration, improved optimization of spring to chassis rates, and much more linear power delivery.

The linear power delivery of the Golf 7 GTI makes it a lot easier to feed the power on in measured doses, as opposed to the fast spooling less linear MK6 GTI motor. In wet and damp conditions, the driver has to be mindful of any abrupt or over-judicious throttle application in the torque rich EA888 multi-port injected motor, but it’s a definite improvement on the previous MK6 Golf GTI for wet weather grip levels, despite the extra torque at such low revs. At the same time, you are able to be more ham-fisted with the gas in the Golf 7 with less ESC light flickering.

Generally: heading through the northern part of the RNP, between Garie Beach and Bundeena, the roadway is quite rough in many areas. The Golf 7 GTI, although offering notably improved ride compliance, comfort and refinement over and above the MK6 Golf GTI, can feel a bit too tied down, even in Comfort mode for the rougher sections of the RNP roadways.

Additionally, with the rain coming down on rougher B-grade roadways, there does seem to be some squeaking from the rear tailgate rubber seals. Someone else brought this issue up earlier on in an alternative review. I’m betting that the rain filtering down form the roof of the vehicle is working its way down & out through the rear tailgate, causing the rubber to squeak upon some chassis flex when the roadway is rough. Not a big issue, but could be a nemesis for the Golf 7 MQB platform. To be sure, I’ll be best advised to remove all the water bottles in my door cup-holders, as most of the time it the water bottles that make most of the squeaks. The Golf 7 GTI is much improved for interior squeaks & chassis rigidity, especially free from squeaks from the B-Pillar and rear multi-link suspension when loaded mainly on one wheel.


Other things worth noting is that in the Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI, should you stall the vehicle, it automatically starts once you depress the clutch. Another point that seemed to crystallize is that even though you’d be able to switch off or totally disengage stability control on other VAG products, I doubt that you’d be able to completely disengage the XDS pseudo electronic diff or rear end vectoring as these measures now seem to be included in the overall chassis design/tuning. In hindsight, the preceding MK6 Golf GTI’s stability control system when completely engaged seems to sit somewhere between the XDS/Vectoring/ESC Golf 7 system in its Normal to Sport setting for having some fun & driver engagment out on the tourist route. Finally, it’s well worth noting that the cost for me to update from MK6 Golf GTI to Golf 7 GTI was $13,500 … in other words … peanuts.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Interesting to note that the Golf 7 GTI has a speed restrictor function. The driver is able to set the max speed of the Golf 7 GTI so that the vehicle does not exceed that speed. This is not a speed warning chime, which the Golf 7 GTI also has, with mine set at 130kph, but actual speed restrictor.

As noted, as the Golf 7 GTI’s new MQB chassis is able to carry higher speeds during cornering, the standard default setting for the ESC intervention errs on the side of caution, cutting in earlier. I wouldn’t say that the Golf 7 GTI’s ESC/XDS/Vectoring enables at a lower speed than the preceding MK6 GTI, but definitely activates earlier prior to the driver nearing the threshold of the available level of tyre grip. As stated earlier, this takes away the ability of the chassis to work on its springs & sway bars making for a less mechanical feeling to the drive experience, not to mention failing to allow the tyres to work to their full capacity during cornering. The MK6 Golf GTI: It was a case of ESC either on/off with no Sport function ESC calibration.

It appears that the ESC Sport function is designed & calibrated for ‘Sporty’ driving and imo, ESC Sport is best engaged for sporty driving. Although it’s nice to know that in ‘Normal’ default ESC setting, the stability control mechanisms are more proactive (ESC, XDS & Rear Vectoring) in conjunction with each other, making for a safer overall drive and should any evasive action be required. I’ve also noted that there is less evidence of the sidewalls being worked to the degree that the preceding MK6 Golf GTI would work them, and definitely much much better than the MKV Golf GTI, that would lean quite heavily on its outside front tyre during Sporty cornering.

In terms of thermal dynamics: I drove to the Sydney CBD on Sunday. No peak hour traffic, but always traffic around and into & out of the CBD. The oil temps seemed to hover around the 109 degrees, as stated earlier to reduce friction, which can be felt with a freer spinning motor, now that the Golf 7 GTI has some miles on it. This is in contrast to about 1 dozen hill-climb drives that in every case, bar one, had the oil temps sitting on 111 degrees. Ultimately, only a 2 degree variation in range from urban inner city driving to loading up the motor during a 15-20 minute mountain climb. Also may explain why Golf 7 GTI uses less fuel under load, as the motor is being kept within its optimal oil temp/heat range.

I’ve driven the Renault Sport Megane RS250 and would agree that it’s the ultimate general production hot-hatch in terms of grip levels, speed & driver involvement. Most media reports indicate that this is still the case when the RS265 Renault Sport Megane is compared to the GTI – PP with LSD. My Manual Transmission Golf 7 GTI with ESC in Sport mode is a great leap forward over the MK6 Golf GTI on DG Sport Springs, and brings the Golf 7 GTI much closer to the Renault Sport for grip levels, cornering ability and driver involvement with much improved ride and refinement levels (ESC Sport that is). Leads me to think that the difference between the Renault Sport RS265, GTI – PP and Std GTI (MT) will not be a huge chasm as a daily driver on the street, as this drive.com.au Car of the Year article will attest to:

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/dcoty-2013-best-performance-car-under-60000-20131127-2y9bt.html

I reckon the manual trans Golf 7 GTI would have come that bit closer to the 86 Toyota Coupe re: less weight up the front for slightly sharper turn-into corners & greater driver engagement. The article is definitely on the money for enhanced refinement, comfort & grip levels.

[Mountainman]

Interesting to note that the Golf 7 GTI has a speed restrictor function.
All Mk7 Golfs have that - even my lowly $22K base model 90 TSI. It's sure a strange feeling when you reach that restricted speed.

[Lima]

Interesting to note that the Golf 7 GTI has a speed restrictor function. The driver is able to set the max speed of the Golf 7 GTI so that the vehicle does not exceed that speed. This is not a speed warning chime, which the Golf 7 GTI also has, with mine set at 130kph, but actual speed restrictor.

Just mash the go fast pedal to the floor and instantly the restrictor is gone!

[WhiteJames]

Must be for when the paparazzi are chasing & hounding you re: pedal to firewall/restrictor. Here's a car advice.com.au video review of the Golf 7 GTI:

2014 Volkswagen Golf GTI Video Review | CarAdvice CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/videos/2014-volkswagen-golf-gti-video-review/)

WJ

[WhiteJames]

In terms of driver engagement, hindsight is a good thing when comparing the Golf 7 GTI to its forebears, the MKV and MK6 Golf GTI’s.

Lets start with the MKV Golf GTI.

A vehicle with too much understeer & bouncy big-bump high speed compression ride with not enough damping, and a tendency for the chassis to lean heavily on its front outside wheel, overworking the side tyre-wall with too much positive outside wheel camber roll.

The MK6 Golf GTI.

The MK6 Golf GTI improved on reducing the understeer that the MKV Golf GTI had dialed in from factory with a larger rear sway bar, stiffer chassis and XDS pseudo electronic diff on the front only, despite being more clinical in its approach into & out of corners. The steering was lighter to appeal to the masses, but models equipped with DCC had the option of heavier steering mode to some benefit.

The non DCC MK6 Golf GTI still suffered from low speed compression small bump incessant patter/bobbing up/down, but high-speed compression hits were tuned to be softer, like the standard steering on the MK6 GTI. The DCC improved the high speed compression hits with electronic interference on large, fast & deep bump compression hits, but DCC could never truly relax in the low speed minor roadway irregularities, indicating that the damping rate was that bit too much relative to spring rate. This gave the impression of sporty handling, with faster transitions back from body roll or pitching using the same springs as the non DCC standard MK6 Golf GTI.

The MK6 Golf R rode the bumps better as it was heavier than the GTI, but still had the old school MKV Golf GTI greater inherent understeer biased chassis tune, but was an improvement over the MKV R32 with less weight over the front end.

The thing with the MK6 Golf GTI is that while I had driven it around many of the roadways that I drove the Golf 7 GTI on when exploring the chassis tune during running-in phase, there was never any great deal of inclination to take the MK6 Golf GTI out for a blast for the sake of driver engagement and fun.

The MK6 Golf GTI was certainly a better vehicle to own than the MKV Golf GTI, but not as driver focused or fun as the new Golf 7 GTI. The XDS pseudo electronic diff in the MK6 Golf GTI at the front only operated with a greater amount of crudeness and crass, adjusting the vehicle line and crimping the inside front driving wheel, taking a bit away from driver involvement . The MK6 Golf GTI was more one-dimensional when it come to XDS and driver engagement.

The Golf 7 GTI.

There was concern that electronics would further reduce the visceral nature of the drive & engagement with vehicle. Rest assured that the electronics, well in ESC Sport mode anyway, act as a driver aid to help improve the focus of the drive experience & therefore driver engagement.

The MKV Golf GTI started with no electronics other than traction control. The MK6 Golf GTI adopted the low speed EDL and higher speed XDS pseudo electronic diff, which while aiding entering and exiting corners, but was a much cruder form of intervention in concert with lower overall MK6 chassis grip levels.

The Golf 7 GTI surpasses all before it for driver reward, fun and engagement, whether it be the MKV GTI, R32, MK6 GTI or Golf R.

The Golf 7 GTI rides and handles better, making it lighter on its feet to change direction & more fun on rougher roadways that you would tend to avoid in vehicles with much stiffer chassis tunes. The steering telegraphs greater feel & pronounced tyre grip levels.

As a result, I’m finding that the new Golf 7 GTI encourages me to take the long road home more often than its forebears provided ESC is in ‘Sport’ mode. Despite the addition of extra electronic aids to aid safety in the Golf 7 GTI, technology has move further ahead to allow for electronic tuning to aid the driver experience.

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Hi James, The new model S3 is out now. I look forward to reading about Ray, the test drive and how glad you are that the base model GTI is still the best.

The R is out in June. **** is gonna get serious down the shire.

Cheers

[WhiteJames]

Ray was introduced as a character in this write-up as he is an owner of a MK6 Golf R, which allowed for a consequential review of the Golf 7 GTI –v- MK6 Golf R, prior to any Audi S3/Golf 7 R drive. Friday 2 weeks ago was left open for Ray to bring out his almost fully loaded DSG MK6 Golf R to play against my bare-bones MT Golf 7 GTI to see if the Golf 7 GTI truly kicks the MK6 Golf R’s butt as a a more effective real-world driver's vehicle. Unfortunately: Ray couldn’t make the time.

I’ve suggested that Ray spend some time in the Golf 7 GTI prior to the Audi S3/Golf 7 R as the Golf 7 GTI is essentially the donar vehicle for the S3/7 R. Start from the base model and work your way up to adequately evaluate if the additional hardware justifies the extra spend I say.

Personally, the only other variant of Golf 7 I wish to drive is the Carbon Edition Golf 7 GTI with carbon roof, which is not likely to be out for another 4 years, or about the time I may look to trade over.

I’ve sent Ray the link for adding the length of conduit into the upper door frame to prevent/reduce the B-Pillar noise on larger bumps. Not something that any owner of any hatchback should have to do, let alone on a 60K premium euro hatch.

This is Ray’s second Golf R, he pulled the pin on a 67K almost fully loaded MK6 Golf R about 3 years ago, keeping his R32 for longer, only to buy this demo R version without DCC for 58K, which looked like good value at the time until the Golf 7 GTI and Audi S3 hit the market with added value. The cost for Ray to change into an Audi S3 so soon would amount to over 60K spend, trading up from R32 to R to S3 within 12 months, not good accounting in anyone’s book (Remember that Ray is actually an accountant).

Is the Audi S3 better than the Golf 7 GTI?

Depends on which way you look at it. Objectively: No … as the premium doesn’t justify the extra spend of the Audi S3. You didn’t need me to tell you that. Subjectively: Depending on personal desire and/or personal expenditure, I think the Audi S3 would be the pick as it is now 11K cheaper, will be not much heavier than a PP GTI, but lighter than the Golf R, with a premium interior (leather included), added standard features and a better electronic dampers/suspension system derived from Ferrari. A suitable optioned Golf 7 R is not likely to be that much less in price than the Audi S3 Sportback.

Buying Ray’s almost fully loaded demo MK6 Golf R is like buying a cheap Lowes suit: You get all the bells & whistles, but you’re ultimately stuck with a cheap ill-fitting suit. For about 10K more, but compromising some of the bells & whistles (I say screw the sunroof & techno-pack, just go for the adaptive dampers) on the Audi S3 would’ve been a more prudent choice imo, a bit like forsaking the inner vest on a premium Armani suit, but ultimately ending up with a supremely better fitting and comfortable garment as opposed to the cheap Lowes MK6 Golf R end of season special suit. Maybe ray doesn’t want to drive a Golf 7 GTI, otherwise he may end up owning one like me.

Here’s a couple of reviews: One from the NRMA on the Golf 7 GTI, another from caradvice.com.au on the new Audi S3.

Audi S3 Sportback Review |Â*CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/264264/audi-s3-sportback-review-2/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5zph_iutvA

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Classic WhiteJames. Excellent work.

[andrew7]

Good work WJ

[sameatworld]

Ray would be very sad that you compared his "new" car to a Lowes suit me thinks. It's a bit mean to describe the MK6 as cheap ill-fitting suit! Especially as I think the MK7 interior isn't much improved on the MK6. But do agree that he should have waited rather than buying an R. Friends should stop friends from buy Lowes no?

I think the MK7 GTI represents a generational improvement of MQB (or whatever) over the MK6 form. Hence while I accept WJ's comments of MK7 vs MK6, am not looking forward to sure to come exaggeration of superiority of mk7 GTI over everything under the sun including the new R and the S3.

Personally, I think the fiesta ST is the one to get in terms of fun and good value. I might dare say that the fiest ST makes even the new GTI redundant... *runs and hides*

Below is also a link of what I thought from the S3 test drive
New S3 (http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/a3-s3-rs3/42355-new-s3.html#post363387)

[WhiteJames]

Speaking of MK6 v Golf 7 differences, there appears to be an issue with the tolerances of the MK6 Golf R, in particular, Ray’s MK6 Golf R. The local Sutherland dealer had greased up the door lock mechanisms of Ray’s MK6 Golf R. This sorted out the B-Pillar knocking to a degree, but did not eliminate it. Ray when and purchased himself lengths of 4mm and 6mm irrigation conduit from Bunnings Hardware to inset into the Golf R door frame rubbers.

It is interesting to note that the 6mm conduit fits the driver’s offside of the MK6 Golf R, but the passenger nearside could only take the 4mm conduit. Attempting to put 6mm conduit into the nearside passenger’s side door-frame resulted in the doors not being able to close properly. Although, the driver’s offside door frames easily accepted the larger diameter 6mm conduit. Could this due to manufacturing tolerances? No such issue with the new Golf 7 GTI in this regard.

I checked the oil in my Golf 7 GTI for the first time in 1800km of driving. Not a drop of oil used so far, which augers well for the Golf 7 GTI, as I envisage that it’s unlikely to use any oil in normal use driving for quite some time. All the tourist route and mountain climb run-in driving is paying dividends. To be frank, new age motor and oils probably help in this regard.

Driving around town, I’ve had the opportunity to compare the Golf 7 GTI around some of the local roadways down South, in particular, quick direction changes negotiating round-a-bouts.

The MK6 Golf GTI on standard springs used to have the inside wheel scrabble for grip, where the inside tyre would unload due to body roll, causing some loss of grip and power down. This was the case with DCC on stock MK6 Golf GTI springs. The dampers only speed up or slow down the process of body lean depending on which DCC setting was engaged. A non DCC standard MK6 Golf GTI would exhibit this trait to an even greater degree.

The genuine Volkswagen Driver Gear Sport springs that were about 8-10% firmer than standard GTI springs help reduced the body roll and lean, and reduced the inside front wheel’s desire to lift and then scrabble for grip, sharpening up the handling of the GTI with a minor detriment to ride comfort. Generally, the best way to reduce body roll & lean is to go for a firmer spring, as the firmer shock absorbers only speed up the pitching side to side or fore & aft, rather than reduce body roll & lean.

The Golf 7 GTI with a longer and wider track, a motor that sits further rearwards over the front axle, and progressive steering, makes negotiating the same set of round-a-bouts so much easier, with greater focus, a flatter chassis composure, greater speed and much less steering effort. The lighter chassis also makes a difference. Executing the same maneuvers in the Golf 7 GTI is like night & day compared to the MKV/MK6 Golf GTI for driver ease & aglity.

In the MK6 Golf GTI the driver was definitely working harder to keep the same line at a given speed through the left-right-left directional changes with the chassis flapping about to a greater degree and greater use of steering and throttle input to keep the tight lines in and out of the round-a-bout intersections. I can see how some would call the Mk6 Golf GTI more fun, and to draw analogy, it’s a bit like riding a BMX bike with greater driver (rider) effort needed for ultimately less result.

The Golf 7 GTI, especially the lighter standard manual transmission version, is more akin to stepping up from a BMX bike to a racer/hybrid bicycle with bigger frame & wheels, where the driver (rider) has a more focused machine that requires less effort for the same result, and that is ultimately faster point to point, only with the added advantage of being user friendly in city driving due to the added ride comfort & progressive rate steering that is great to use around town & in tight spaces.

One last thing, the other comments on this thread do make a valid point re: Trading up from MK6 to S3/7R. There is no use in Ray ditching his MK6 Golf R for an Audi S3 atm, as he would be taking a bath on depreciation on the 8 month old demo MK6 Golf R, which incidentally has a 4 year warranty. His plan is to run the MK6 Golf R for a while, with added refinement & quietness due to 6mm and 4mm irrigation tubing inserted into the door frame rubbers, then about 18 months out from warrant expiry date, sell to upgrade to either a Golf 7 R or Audi S3 depending on value for money equation. The Golf 7 R may be around 3-4K more than the MK6 version, and the Audi S3 is already 11K cheaper than its predecessor. It ultimately depends on what comes standard on the Golf 7 R for the expected price rise.

Volkswagen: New Cars 2014 |Â CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/264827/volkswagen-new-cars-2014/)

WJ

[bazzle]

Good read.

Sadly quote" Finally, it’s well worth noting that the cost for me to update from MK6 Golf GTI to Golf 7 GTI was $13,500 … in other words … peanuts. "

May be peanuts to you but a years play money for me :(

Can you add the 'conduit" link please. will it work on an mkv 2 door R32?

Edit: A friend who is the service manager for a large dealer dropped off an mk7 gti last night for me to try out :)

[bazzle]

OK my thoughts from an mkV R32 owner on the mk7 GTI manual. (I get to drive lots of cars in my job inc the latest VWs.)
Very nice car. A torque surge at about 2400rpm gives it a nice sporty feel. Same surge makes it very hard to keep power on in a tight sweeper as front end was scrabbling for grip with "yellow" light flashing at me.
All the same could be driven very swiftly with a balanced throttle.
Steering was very good with precise turn in and a nice feedback thru the wheel. (better then my R32)
Brakes were good, less noise on bumps and thumps. Has quite a lot of skip and patter on bends with bitumen that is not dead smooth (19" tyres?)
Driving along the Eastern freeway I found constant minor steering correction was required to stay on a straight path. The steering was very touchy in this example.
I tried a few hard take-offs from lights with the traction control off but the noise from the enging trying to jump in and out of the subframe put an end to that.:(
It then rained. :( This is not a car that likes anything other than a dry road imo. The power hit just before each gear change (manual in this one) I found tiring. Even keeping up with mums and dads in their Maxda's and commodores from traffic lights created thumps from the front end as the traction control came in and out over the white lines.
Very nice car, sporty feel, good dynamics, would suit someone who needs to feel a turbo pull every time they took off ;)
If only I could make my R32 turn in the same ..............

[WhiteJames]

Yes … the sharper turn-in of the lighter GTI is precisely why I went for the GTI, and in particular, the standard Manual Trans (non PP) Golf GTI. I didn’t fancy lugging an extra 50kgs over the front axle, where the GTI PP has extra weight of the DSG box, larger brakes (extra unsprung weight) and mechanical LSD diff.

The GTI PP and Golf 7 R will pull with greater efficiency out of corners, but the lighter standard non PP manual trans GTI will get into corners with greater ease & alacrity. Additionally, the standard manual GTI has the softest springs up front due to less weight over the front axle, allowing for the lighter front end to lean on the front sidewalls of the tyres providing extra bite & turn-in into corners over and above the heavier PP GTI and Golf 7 R.

In this respect, like the preceding MKV R32, I believe the PP GTI and Golf 7 R will be more blunt instruments for everyday public roadway driving in terms of entering corners up until apex.

One of the latest reviews on the Audi S3 with adaptive dampers indicated that the softer medium setting (not comfort or sport) allowed the chassis of the Audi S3 to also lean more so the front edge of the tyres could bite more effectively during public roadway driving at sane speeds … you’d pretty much get this all of the time with the lightest standard lesser spec Golf 7 GTI with manual trans.

On another note:

I agree with what some say in that the Golf GTI power-plant has been held back to a degree of outright bang, fizz and turbo spool delivery. I think that this is in keeping with the refined sportiness of the Golf as a vehicle in terms of target buyers, un-like a Mazda 3 MPS power delivery with similar torque punching through the front wheels.

Alternatively, I think that Volkswagen need a bit of room to move towards that racy feeling & tuning for the forthcoming Golf 7 R, which will still be refined, but with a bit more bang, fizz and spooling to the power delivery.

To answer your question:

The initial link to the Bunnings Irrigation 4mm and 6mm conduit for the B pillar banging noise is in the MK6 section of this website forum towards the end. I sent this link to Ray, who investigated further on the US forums to find pics of other owners inserting the conduit within the door seal rubbers.

I can’t see why it cannot be done on a MKV Golf, so long as the rubber seals are the same. Ray says that you should not have to do this on a 60K sports/luxury euro hatchback (R32 or MK6 R), but then again, the Golf chassis was not designed to be a bespoke Golf R sports vehicle, with majority of sales being the mum & dad garden variety lesser Golf variants.

Reading the latest EVO magazine on my iPad where they compare the Toyota GT86 to the Golf 7 GTI, EVO hit the nail on the head. The Toyota GT86 is more fun on the race track, where the Golf 7 GTI is a bit inert, with the Golf GTI being better everywhere else and faster in the real-world. No many purchase a Golf to drive on the track. Toyota GT86 Coupe received 4/5 stars. The Golf 7 GTI 4.5/5 stars rating. Same reason I went for the Golf GTI over the twin BRZ/GT 86 coupes – that latest remaining driver engagement of the twin coupes is not worth the impracticality of such a vehicle.

Oh yeah ... the Golf 7 GTI DSG managed to come within a few tenths of the MK6 Golf R for lap time around a tight & twisting racetrack according to Motor Magazine (Aus). No bad for a FWD.

B-Pillar Squeaking (MK6 Golf) thread: http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f112/b-pillar-clicking-ticking-door-rubber-seal-creaking-squeaking-41289-24.html

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

James, I commend your ability to be objective. Top marks, as ever.

Ps. I had a go in the new s3 today. You should try it rather than relying on Ray.

[WhiteJames]

Here's an autoexpress.co.uk review between an auto Standard GTI -v- MTrans PP GTI. PP GTI was 1.6 seconds faster around their U.K. test track and held the line much better than the Std GTI. Both autoexpress & Motor Mag journos are right in saying that the MTrans Golf 7 GTI is the more engaging of the two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jVPZUXOYM

I think it would be difficult to score a test drive in an Audi S3 showing up in a brand new Golf 7 GTI. Any salesman worth their salt would see a tyre-kicker looking for a test drive. Ray has a MK6 Golf R, which would improve your chances of a test drive, although I'm still waiting on him to compare his MK6 R to my Golf 7 GTI. Ray did conduct a drive around the tight hills & twists to gauge the irrigation conduit upgrade to his MK6 Golf R ... the conduit seems to have cut down the B-Pillar noises.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

This is a Paul Tan review between the BMW, Merc A250 Sport, Volvo and Golf 7 GTI. Lap times are recorded around the 8-9 min mark, with the Golf 7 GTI the fastest on the track & comfortable on the road:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddyg8j1FLWI

Cheers.

[slam]

I tried a few hard take-offs from lights with the traction control off but the noise from the enging trying to jump in and out of the subframe put an end to that.:(
It then rained. :( This is not a car that likes anything other than a dry road imo. The power hit just before each gear change (manual in this one) I found tiring. Even keeping up with mums and dads in their Maxda's and commodores from traffic lights created thumps from the front end as the traction control came in and out over the white lines.


Sounds like axle tramp is still a problem with the Mk7 GTI ? It is really bad with my Mk6 GTI - my windscreen phone holder falls off frequently from the "jack hammering".

I believe the A3 1.8 Quattro is very similarly priced to the Mk7 GTI. I wonder if the 1.8 Quattro is the more enjoyable car to drive in terms of getting off the line quickly from standstill?

Then again, I've seen Youtube videos of the Mk7 GTI accelerating with WOT without any axle tramp at all?

[AdamD]

Sounds like axle tramp is still a problem with the Mk7 GTI ? It is really bad with my Mk6 GTI - my windscreen phone holder falls off frequently from the "jack hammering".

I believe the A3 1.8 Quattro is very similarly priced to the Mk7 GTI. I wonder if the 1.8 Quattro is the more enjoyable car to drive in terms of getting off the line quickly from standstill?

Then again, I've seen Youtube videos of the Mk7 GTI accelerating with WOT without any axle tramp at all?

Whether you get axle tramp or not depends on a whole range of conditions, such as:


Tyre condition and pressures
Tyre size and type
Road surface and conditions, incline etc
Shock/damper type/setting/condition
Temperature/humidity
Launch technique
Car loading (passengers, fuel)
Etc


You may have experienced bad axle tramp with your mk6, but it's not been an issue with mine at all.

[slam]

Hi Adam, some comments to the points you raised:

• Tyre condition and pressures – approx 50% worn. Axle tramp has been there since day 1, so going from brand new tyres to 50% worn hasn’t made a difference. Pressure: 36 psi

• Tyre size and type - 225/45/17 Bridgestone Turanza ER300. As an aside, I bought the car brand new and it came with these Turanza tyres. No idea why the dealer put touring grade tyres on a GTI

• Road surface and conditions, incline etc - Obviously, axle tramp is more pronounced in the wet, but it happens in the dry as well. And as expected, more pronounced going up hill

• Shock/damper type/setting/condition - Absolutely stock standard. Car is 2.5 years old with 30,000km, so condition should be OK. Amount of axle tramp has not changed in the last 2.5 years

• Temperature/humidity - Happens at all temperatures / humidity. Have not noticed any correlation

• Launch technique - I never dump the clutch. I let the clutch engage and get the car rolling on part throttle first, then apply close to WOT. Axle tramp would come in from around 4,00rpm in first gear. Same with rolling starts in first gear - car pulls quite well in first gear up until around 4,000rpm, then the jack hammering starts and I have to back off

• Car loading (passengers, fuel) Fuel load does not make a difference. Axle tramp very noticeable with driver only. Is less severe with driver and front passenger (extra weight therefore more traction), but still happens.

As mentioned before, mine axle tramps from rolling starts as well. Typical example - when accelerating after turning right at a round about. Very mild if in second gear, but very severe when in first gear, from around 4,000rpm onwards.

Is yours a manual as well? What tyres / size / pressure do you have? Any mods to suspension? Would like to understand the difference.

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Hi slam, I think you are in the wrong part of this forum. This thread is more particularly about how the base model GTI poops all over all before it. If you can re-write your thoughts on the basis of a European review of the superiority of the GTI against an f1-11 (between 80-110kph) you will get more traction. If you can shoehorn a sly dig at the mark VI R all the better. Otherwise top internetting. PS Roy is seething.

[AdamD]

• Tyre condition and pressures – approx 50% worn. Axle tramp has been there since day 1, so going from brand new tyres to 50% worn hasn’t made a difference. Pressure: 36 psi

• Tyre size and type - 225/45/17 Bridgestone Turanza ER300. As an aside, I bought the car brand new and it came with these Turanza tyres. No idea why the dealer put touring grade tyres on a GTI

The tyres you're using are not known for their high-performance qualities or road grip. This will certainly be a contributing factor. I'm surprised they were factory-fitted; Turanza weren't a factory fitment for the first few years of GTI production that I was aware of. (My car was fitted with Bridgestone RE050s, but I got rid of those in short order and now run much stickier and quieter Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2s in 225/40 R18.)

I normally run quite high tyre pressures (suit the tyres I'm using) - around 40psi. However for better grip when launching hard, many people subscribe to the theory that lower pressures are a lot better (again, this is somewhat tyre-dependent). Guys on the strip will often drop their pressures into the low 20s or even into the teens to get a great 60-foot time. Obviously don't do this on the road, but consider trying a marginally lower pressure in your front tyres for a while (eg 32psi) and see if it makes a difference.



• Shock/damper type/setting/condition - Absolutely stock standard. Car is 2.5 years old with 30,000km, so condition should be OK. Amount of axle tramp has not changed in the last 2.5 years

• Launch technique - I never dump the clutch. I let the clutch engage and get the car rolling on part throttle first, then apply close to WOT. Axle tramp would come in from around 4,00rpm in first gear. Same with rolling starts in first gear - car pulls quite well in first gear up until around 4,000rpm, then the jack hammering starts and I have to back off

I see from your signature that your car is fitted with DCC. Try your launches in Comfort mode and see if that improves the situation, and compare and contrast with Sport. Overly firm (or overly soft) dampers can lead to wheel hop. Don't leave it in Normal mode.

If you're applying WOT in first gear (especially in a low-grip situation like a wet road), you're going to get wheelspin. Depending on how much wheelspin you get, the characteristics of the tyre, suspension loading and damping etc etc, the wheel will only spin so much before wheel hop can set in. (With a stage 1 or greater GTI, WOT anywhere in first gear - wet or dry - is really not a sensible option. A stock car is better - power-down is really quite good considering, largely due to weight - but it's still not perfect.) A front-wheel drive car will lift its nose as it accelerates and weight transfers rearward; this unloads the tyres just as you're applying more throttle and the engine reaches peak torque and power. Not an ideal situation. You're not going to get nasty wheel hop and axle tramp if you don't let the wheelspin get out of control - you need to be aware of it and apply throttle judiciously, otherwise you're just wasting your car's accelerative energy in wheelspin. A bit of slip is okay, as long as wheel speed is close to vehicle speed; when there's a bit variance is when you have problems. Remember also that once the wheels are spinning, it requires less power to keep them spinning than if they had maintained traction (which means that if you're gentle early, you can apply more throttle later and get a better result than had you applied constant throttle right through first gear.)



• Temperature/humidity - Happens at all temperatures / humidity. Have not noticed any correlation

• Car loading (passengers, fuel) Fuel load does not make a difference. Axle tramp very noticeable with driver only. Is less severe with driver and front passenger (extra weight therefore more traction), but still happens.

As mentioned before, mine axle tramps from rolling starts as well. Typical example - when accelerating after turning right at a round about. Very mild if in second gear, but very severe when in first gear, from around 4,000rpm onwards.


Temperature and humidity affect the coefficient of grip of the tyres, and also the road surface. Changes can be minor, or they can be significant depending on the circumstances. You may, or may not, notice a difference depending on the road and the day.

Rolling start versus standing start makes no difference - you will be able to get into a situation where the weight transfers rearwards unloading the front wheels, and you reach peak torque/power, irrespective of whether you were moving or stationary before you started.


Is yours a manual as well? What tyres / size / pressure do you have? Any mods to suspension? Would like to understand the difference.

Mine's a DSG; tyre details above. I run stock suspension and do not have DCC fitted to my car.

As was discussed in the other thread, I wouldn't be surprised if the problem you're having is the engine moving around on soft engine mounts - particularly if this behaviour sets in immediately without some period of lead-in wheelspin first. There are quite a few things you can do to address this, and you can also get your mounts checked as well just to make sure they're not cracked or damaged.

And now, back on topic. :)

[slam]

Thanks for the most comprehensive reply Adam !

[AdamD]

Thanks for the most comprehensive reply Adam !

No dramas mate. :)

[WhiteJames]

Ray has test driven the new Golf 7 GTI (DSG) while his MK6 R was in for fixed price service ($400). He didn't say much in his SMS, but indicated that the MK6 Golf R still offered benefits. Ray reckons that Audi's are for old people and that he will look at an Audi when his is 60 years of age. I disagree.

The Golf 7 R is apparently 2,000 GBP less than the Audi S3 in the U.K.

Here's a demo supplied by autoexpress.co.uk of a Golf 7 R doing a bit of drifting on a closed frozen Swiss Lake (or is that Swedish Lake?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_LVUuGNW_A

Here's another review ... this time a Golf 7 PP GTI that offers some good shots of the vehicle, if nothing else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylROYGM-eQE

Can't say I've had any major issue with front wheel hop in either the MK6 Golf GTI or Golf 7 GTI.

WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

Ray certainly does a fair few kilometres round the shire. It must be difficult to remember all this stuff sometimes. James, I am really sorry, but you strike me as Mr Bean with a moderately fast car (albeit base model).

[Cantgiveyouthat]

In case you forgot James, Ray bought a loaded R late October when it was already evident that it had no oil loss, at odds with some of the feedback on these forums. On a positive note Ray will be loving the fuel economy of the r doing 4k's a month. Ray could have saved a mozza on a base model GTI, but there would have been no fun in that.

[WhiteJames]

When dealing with Ray, we need to think outside the box! Ray has his Golf R serviced every 6 months. Personally, I’ll stick to yearly or 15,000km services for my GTI as it only receives normal type of use.

It’s interesting to read the comments in the latest Motor Mag re: Focus ST –v- Golf 7 GTI –v- Merc A250 AMG comparision. Journalists are stating that the Golf GTI was lacking in front end grip compared to the Focus ST. I’d have to agree to a certain extent. Part of the reason, although a very small part, may be down to the Focus ST chassis tune & tyres.

I think a big part of the reason for the comments by Motor Mag is that the Focus ST is about 100+kgs heavier than the standard Golf GTI manual transmission. The heavier weight would most likely be pushing down on the Focus ST tyres a bit harder, esp in low grip situations. The extra 10mm width of the Focus ST tyre width may also add a bit of grip level to the Focus ST. This bodes well for those with an order for the PP GTI, with extra weight improving straight-line traction (in addition to LSD).

The Merc A250 AMG is a looker, but give me the ride comfort/refinement of the Golf 7 GTI any day.

Another point that Motor Mag has picked up on in their long term Golf 7 GTI manual transmission vehicle is that fuel consumption looks good on paper, but in the real world, the consumption is not that much better than the preceding MK6 Golf GTI (6.2 –v- 7.6 avergage).

I’ve noticed improved fuel consumption on the Golf 7 GTI of up to 2 litres per 100km on short blasts from Cronulla into the Royal National Park, just driving the hilly Boat Shed run. This is when the motor is working under load working hard up steep hills. Improve thermal dynamics no doubt plays its part in saving fuel.

The MK6 Golf GTI DSG would be just under 13.5 litres compared to the just under 11.5 litres for the new Golf 7 GTI MTrans for the Boat Shed run. Otherwise fuel savings of 0.2 to 0.5 litres seems to be closer to the mark for the improvement in the Golf 7 GTI MTrans, but nothing like the 1.0-1.5 litres Volkswagen are claiming for the Golf 7 GTI as an improvement over the preceding MK6 Golf GTI.

I’ve also notice for the first few minutes of warm up, the motor seems to run a bit rough, gyrating on the engine mounts causing vibration into the cabin. This seems to go away after 3-5 minutes, where the motor then runs tangibly smoother than the previous MK6 Golf GTI, almost like Volkswagen have added a layer of Teflon into the engine for extra smoothness and free-revving ability, despite the torque rich power delivery sitting between a MK6 Golf GTI and MK6 Golf GTD.

I’m happy with my choice with the manual transmission in the Golf 7 GTI, as are the journos at Motor Mag. I think that due to less weight of the Golf 7 GTI chassis coupled with the extra weight of the DSG gearbox seems to have a bigger negative effect on handling dynamics in the Golf 7 than it did in the MK6 Golf (approx. 15 kgs extra for the DSG) as adding 15 kgs at the front is proportionately greater in the Golf 7. I’d still be going for a manual transmission Golf 7 R or Audi S3 if it were my money.

WJ

[Jimi]

I think part of the grip issues can be put down to the Bridgestone tyres which are standard on most Aussie GTIs. Overseas markets get a mix that also includes contis and dunlops which are said to be far better

[WhiteJames]

My GTI is running on Dunlop Sport Maxx SP Asymmetrical tyres. 350Nm is a lot to put down in a fairly light hatchback vehicle.
WJ

[Cantgiveyouthat]

So Ray goes servicing every four months on your numbers James. But I'm sure you knew that. It probably makes him feel better since he purchased such an inferior motor to the base model GTi. Have you driven an A250 or 45AMG to make your statement at least have some validity?

Why do you agree with the journalists when we both know you have driven neither. The ST is a ****box inside but that is as far as I got. I've sat in the merc and had similar thoughts. I have driven neither model.

Do not rely on the MFD for consumption. The old one at least was ****.

Plus points for telling me that engines like to warm up though.

For what it is worth I hate myself for trying to get a dig in at you. I sincerely hope you are the troll and I am really the trollee.

Ever yours.

[WhiteJames]

My Golf 7 GTI Manual is 4 months old. Ray's MK6 Golf R demo is about 3 months older than my Golf 7. My work colleague was apparently the first guy in AUS to take delivery of a Merc A250 AMG and he complains of the harsh ride ... harder than a MK6 Golf GTI, which rides much harsher than a Golf 7 GTI (with or without adaptive dampers) and does not handle anywhere as well (although is fun & requires greater driver effort to hustle along). A45 Merc has no real relevance in a country with 110kph speed limit for majority of its highways. The new Golf R fully loaded may just come in a less than most were expecting ... I'm guessing 60K drive away?
WJ

[andrew7]

Thanks WJ, what's the source of your new R pricing forecast? (nb. the subject of heated debate on the R topic. BTW, there will be much pressure on the R pricing given an s3 with most of the fruit (exc performance pack) comes in at about $65k on road (before discounting/negotiation).

[WhiteJames]

If I told you who my source was, I'd have to kill you ... lol. Looking around mid April 2014 for release of Golf 7 R with drive-away price of just under 60K for full fruit 7 R. Could be some surprises re: options list, but imo just under 60K with all options suggests that there are not to many options on the 7 R. Pushing Ray to dump his prev-gen MK6 Golf R almost full fruit demo + 15K cash for the new 7 R ... I know he wants one.
WJ

[Jimi]

WhiteJames = Golf 7?

[andrew7]

Thanks WJ. My choice will narrow down to DSG GTI PP v R/S3 subject to R pricing and test drive etc (my MK6 DSG GTI lease is up at the end of year)

Jimi, appears that the infamous Golf7 is permanently MIA, pretty sure its not WJ ;)

[Cantgiveyouthat]

James you said Ray bought the R when you went to Mascot. It's at the start of the thread. Like most of what you write it's only sitting next to the truth. So you have not driven any of the other cars. It's an A45amg not an A250 as far as I know. Everyone and his dog is guessing the r to be $55k plus on roads and delivery, so good work on that "scoop". Ray will need at least $15k so you are on the money there.

[Cantgiveyouthat]

It's an A250sport. I checked the Merc website.

[thezoneR32]

FYI I drove a MK7 Gti today with DSG. Certainly has good midrange and handles well but I thought it struggled to get the power down if you push it too hard. Also has a bit of lag compared to my tuned A4. Overall I thought it was fairly clinical tbh. And driving in D is a waste of time, just like the mk6 it changes through the gears way too fast too enjoy the drive. And S is useless like in the mk6 stays in 3rd forever, so manual mode is all thats left and its though you either drive the car hard or like a grandma there's nothing in between. If this is the way cars are going life is going to be very dull in the future. I like my manual a4 better! I might try a manual next but Im not as excited as I was before.

[WhiteJames]

Hi Paul,

I found the manual Golf GTI to be more fun first up. A second drive in the Auto DSG Golf 7 GTI left me a bit deflated re: driver engagement & fun factor. Started to have doubts. A follow-up drive in the Manual Golf 7 GTI reinvigorated my desire for the Golf 7 GTI.

I think the extra weight of the DSG up front, coupled with a lighter chassis and stiffer front springs in the Auto DSG Golf 7 takes a bit away from the fun factor compared to the Manual box re: chassis composure, roll, pitch & dive & squat. A bit like the Toyota 86 -v- BRZ with slight suspension tuning changes making a notable difference because of a fairly light chassis. I ended up going for the Manual.

Same reason I didn't wait for the Golf 7 GTI PP ... extra 60 kgs of weight and extra weight up front ... I'd imagine that the front springs in the PP GTI would be stiffer again, perhaps taking a bit more fun factor away at public roadway driving speeds.

In this respect, maybe a Manual Golf R that is likely to be within a few K's extra to the PP GTI could be the go. My sources are telling me that majority of the early examples of the Golf 7 R to go on sale early on are higher spec DSG versions.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Here's a video from a chick who seems to know what she is talking about re: Golf 7 GTI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW-gxz9vmGA

Perhaps another to remind you harder core Audi S3/Golf 7 R types not to pick any fights with the BMW 135i on a track day outing:

Audi S3 vs BMW M135i | evo TRACK BATTLE - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjo0o-M35GQ)

Cheers.
WJ

[Mutch1983]

If where just relying on reviews then it might actually be if you own an Audi S3 don't pick a track battle with a BMW 135i AWD or Golf mk7 R manual. Or even if you are a 135i owner maybe don't pick a battle with a Golf Mk7 R DSG. Here are three European comparison tests I got off another forum that reinforce these suggestions.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/03/95fcca36ca2874be22095f3fdfef1889jpg49995-1.jpg
The Golf R is the best allrounder, the M135i is the sportscar and the S3 is the comfortable, everyday hot-hatch of this comparison.
Win for the Golf R. Second place: M135i.

Audi S3 Sportback S-tronic / BMW M135i xDrive / Volkswagen Golf R

Power: 300 hp / 320 hp / 300 hp
Gearbox: 6-speed-DSG / 8-speed-automatic / 6-speed-manual
Weight: 1517 kg / 1568 kg / 1498 kg
0-100 km/h: 5,0 s / 5,0 s / 5,7 s
0-200 km/h: 19,4 s / 19,3 s / 20,5 s
Braking (100-0 km/h), warm: 36,4 m / 34,2 m / 35,7 m
18 m slalom: 67,9 km/h / 67,7 km/h / 69,2 km/h
110 m evasive test: 140,4 km/h / 145,6 km/h / 145,1 km/h

[Mutch1983]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/03/74a00a115050270eaa2ecb64b1e8d094jpg49996-1.jpg
AutoBild:
"The drive, the suspension, the seats. The R became a real racer."
Win for the Golf here as well. Second is the BMW, followed by the S3.

Audi S3 Sportback S-tronic / BMW M135i xDrive / Volkswagen Golf R

Power: 300 hp / 320 hp / 300 hp
Gearbox: 6-speed-DSG / 8-speed-automatic / 6-speed-manual
Weight: 1521 kg / 1574 kg / 1476 kg
0-100 km/h: 4,9 s / 4,8 s / 5,5 s
0-200 km/h: 19,0 s / 18,2 s / 19,6 s
Braking (100-0 km/h), warm: 35,6 m / 34,5 m / 35,3 m
Contidrom laptime: 1:38,38 min / 1:37,35 min / 1:37,53 min

[Mutch1983]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/03/azjpg51704-1.jpg
AutoZeitung's comparison is out yet - with the Golf R DSG.

"With the new R-model Volkswagen proved again that the Golf is the best car in its class. And not because it's the best allrounder, but it's the sportiest one as well."
Second place: S3.

Audi S3 Sportback S-tronic / BMW M135i xDrive / Volkswagen Golf R DSG

Power: 300 hp / 320 hp / 300 hp
Gearbox: 6-speed-DSG / 8-speed-automatic / 6-speed-DSG
Weight: 1561 kg / 1585 kg / 1513 kg
0-100 km/h: 4,8 s / 4,9 s / 4,7 s
0-200 km/h: 17,9 s / 18,0 s / 18,0 s
Braking (100-0 km/h), warm: 34,3 m / 33,1 m / 32,9 m
18 m slalom: 67,5 km/h / 68,6 km/h / 69,9 km/h
Laptime: 1:43,4 min / 1:42,2 min / 1:41,9 min

[WhiteJames]

This track battle has me thinking that the PP GTI ain't much slower than the Golf 7 R?

Volkswagen Golf GTI Vs Renault Megane RS review - AutoExpress - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5hZwUuFX5A)

WJ

[WhiteJames]

I see that the Golf R put up against other hot hatches, including GTI PP, Seat Leon Cupra R, Renault Megane RS265, and BMW 135i had the Golf 7 R taking out the win, although not for absolute driver's vehicle (RS265), but for nailing everything else including the holy grail of riding comfortably & handling well … as reviewed in EVO Mag iPad Ed.

Surprisingly … Top Gear (UK) Ed on iPad also gives the Golf 7 R the victory (just) over the Merc A45 AWD. Interesting to read that the Golf R was sharper in the handling department and rode a bit sharper than the A45 Merc AWD. The European 18" look much better than the 19" Golf 7 R destined for AUS.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

The ESC engaged completely is quite intrusive on the Golf 7 GTI (I.e. default setting). ESC partially disengaged (i.e. Off on GTI) provides a nice blend of safety and adjustability for everyday driving, although not on the track as Tiff Needal would attest in this Fifth Gear (UK) video review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATb2IAIG4s&list=WLACA332E66C66FBB3

Word on the street is that the Golf 7 R will be available for test driving on 22nd April 2014.

WJ

[team_v]

The ESC engaged completely is quite intrusive on the Golf 7 GTI (I.e. default setting). ESC partially disengaged (i.e. Off on GTI) provides a nice blend of safety and adjustability for everyday driving, although not on the track as Tiff Needal would attest in this Fifth Gear (UK) video review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nATb2IAIG4s&list=WLACA332E66C66FBB3

Word on the street is that the Golf 7 R will be available for test driving on 22nd April 2014.

WJ

One should never drive with the ESC off on public roads and it should never kick in on a public road unless the driver is doing something that is likely illegal or dangerous.

On a track is a different matter

[WhiteJames]

There was no need to switch off the ESC in the MK6 GTI. The Golf 7 GTI electronic safety package is a much different beast … the ESC really prevents the driver from loading the car on its tyres front to rear and side to side using the throttle or brake … in other words, it cuts in well before the limit of grip is exhausted. The ESC Off feature (partial disengage or not fully engaged) is actually an ESC Sport mode, where the driver is unlikely to breach the threshold of grip on public roadways in good weather and is fine for sporty driving. The Golf 7 GTI ultimately offers a two stage ESC feature, one that is more vigilant than the previous MK6 Golf GTI, and the other (ESC Sport) that allows the driver to take a bit more control. Having said that, all the hype about switching off the ESC completely is overdone unless you intend to track the car.
WJ

[WhiteJames]

The MK VII range seems to show that VW have adopted a new philosophy towards stability (ESC) control.

Looks like VW have narrowed the regular default ESC 'on' setting threshold offering less yaw rate, body roll & movement in the Golf 7 GTI chassis to ensure that the intended line of arc around a corner does not deviate. I think this is a good thing generally for safety and protecting people from themselves.

When running in my new Golf 7 GTI:

I began to think that there was something wrong with the tyre pressures as the ESC stability control was activating much much earlier than it would have on the previous MK6 Golf GTI. I checked the tyres pressures, which were all uniform. I then began to think that something was wrong with the ESC system, as the ESC does not allow the driver to lean on the Golf 7 GTI, as was the case with the MK6 GTI.

After becoming acquainted with the Golf 7 GTI chassis around the mountain passes, climbs and descents during run-in phase, I began using the ESC Sport program. This partially disengages the ESC system to allow for a bit more lean on the suspension from side to side around corners, unlocking the goodness of the Golf 7 chassis (and a good FWD chassis it is), which dramatically improve my drive experience and gave me a bit more control over in terms of working the chassis & tyres.

I agree with the journos that the ESC Sport function on the Golf 7 GTI is well judged for public road driving … maybe not the track, but then again, I wouldn't have purchased a Golf GTI for track duties. I'd go as far to say that ESC Sport setting is the default setting for any driver tackling the tight & twisty mountain passes. Whether this philosophy covers all VAG products, I cannot say, but this would most probably be the case as these decisions are generally made at a high boardroom level.

Ray is been getting a little more intimate with his dealer on the Golf 7 R … reckons that 59.5K will get you into a fully optioned Golf R DSG on the road (this includes discount) … have to wait and see if this is correct come official launch.

Additionally, dealers are showing some concern that the Golf 7 R is not attracting the attention that VW dealers were expecting. Easy to see why … iMO: A Golf 7 R with DSG and Leather + 3 year fixed priced servicing costs is line ball comparable with & not far off a standard Audi S3 with DSG as standard feature and 3 years free servicing by Audi in terms of cost. The Audi is also lighter, esp. at the front end where it counts. As a bonus: the Audi has smaller 18" wheels/tyres as standard. Not everyone wants to be fully sick.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Word on the street is that a GTI PP fully optioned can be yours for 54K drive-away. Personally ... I'd be shopping it against a Manual Golf 7 R + Leather for about the same money. Time will tell if the 7 R is the same money.
WJ

[Lemonskin]

Word on the street is that a GTI PP fully optioned can be yours for 54K drive-away. Personally ... I'd be shopping it against a Manual Golf 7 R + Leather for about the same money. Time will tell if the 7 R is the same money.
WJ

$54k is WAAAAAY too much for a GTI. That's not only R money, but creeping dangerously close to S3 money.

[tonymy01]

Yeah, when I read what people got their mk6 R for, I felt a little ripped off at $58K drive away (manual, roof,rns, no leather, no dcc). But $54K drive away is serious coin for a front wheel drive!

[WhiteJames]

Heaps of people, me included, paid 50K for a MK6 Golf GTI with a few options, which seemed reasonable value 4 years ago ... meh how times change? I said a few weeks ago ... if your fully optioned Golf 7 R DSG is not walking out the door for about 60K or just under, you ain't trying hard enough. Still ... a Golf 7 R DSG + Leather is around 5 K cheaper than an Audi S3 base model. Shows that AUS is becoming more like the U.K. where the Audi have come down in price and VW have gone up in price, with the disparity much less than in the past. Hell ... Audi even offer corporate pricing to Gov't fleets, as VW does. Here some early drive.com.au reviews of the Golf 7 R and GTI PP:

Volkswagen Golf R first drive review (http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/volkswagen-golf-r-first-drive-review-20140409-36d8x.html)

Volkswagen Golf GTi Performance first drive review (http://www.drive.com.au/new-car-reviews/volkswagen-golf-gti-performance-first-drive-review-20140409-36bya.html)

While the LSD diff is a good thing to have on the PP GTI ... the larger brakes on the PP GTI may suffer a little more under repeated use due to carrying an extra 60kgs of weight in the PP over the base model manual GTI (1364kgs -v- 1304kgs).

2014 VW Golf GTI Performance review | first drive | carsguide.com.au (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/2014_vw_golf_gti_performance_review_first_drive_83 026_20140408?origin=hpc4)

WJ

[AdamD]

Heaps of people, me included, paid 50K for a MK6 Golf GTI with a few options, which seemed reasonable value 4 years ago ... meh how times change?

I paid over $50k for my heavily-optioned GTI four years ago; the RRP on my car was almost $60k! And yes, times most certainly have changed - particularly with respect to the price of electronics as options, and what consumers expect to be standard inclusions.


Still ... a Golf 7 R DSG + Leather is around 5 K cheaper than an Audi S3 base model.

The R DSG is $54,490, and leather is $3,150. The S3 is $59,900. That's a difference of $2,260. Redbook publishes a dealer delivery price of $3,528 for the S3 (a standard price published by Audi - so if you're being quoted more you've been quoted above RRP effectively), whilst VW quotes $2,495, so that's $1,033 - bringing the total to $3,293. Before bargaining of course. And don't forget that the Audi is generally better equipped (with the exception of ACC) than the Golf, as a justification for that premium.

[WhiteJames]

Reading the latest Motor Mag with the base spec Golf 7 GTI Manual Trans kicking butt against the SS Commodore and WRX, Motor Mag couldn't of said it better when it comes to the lightest and most agile Sports Golf 7 i.e. The front end is the lightest and most accurate with an ability to change direction fast. Of course, the PP GTI will exit a corner faster than the STD GTI and the Golf R faster still in damp/wet conditions, but corner entry the lightest STD GTI may have a leg up on the other two. Speaking of accuracy, here's an in-depth review by Autocar.co.uk on the Golf 7 R ... pity those wheels are not making it to AUS, as they appear to be the pick of a bad bunch:

Volkswagen Golf R review - ride and handling | Autocar (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/volkswagen/golf-r/ride)

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Lots of people making the inevitable comparison: Golf 7 R -v- Audi S3 … including the journos at go auto.com.au: Volkswagen Golf R 5-dr hatch - Volkswagen's 206kW Golf R kicks off at $51,990 | GoAuto (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/1445CCAB30679C87CA257CB60028884C)

Personally … I'd prefer to compare weights:

Tare mass is 1416kg with the six-speed manual or 1435kg with the DSG, which is more than 100kg heavier than the GTI (thanks the AWD system for this). However, the Mk7 Golf’s modular MQB architecture renders this R about 50kg lighter than the old one.

That makes the Golf 7 R DSG about 130 kgs heavier than my base spec Golf 7 GTI Manual Trans … or about 2 x average sized European Males.

WJ

[Dutch77]

That makes the Golf 7 R DSG about 130 kgs heavier than my base spec Golf 7 GTI Manual Trans … or about 2 x average sized European Males.

I've got European lineage on both sides of my family but am missing this 65kg target by over 50% :)

[WhiteJames]

Wonder why the Golf 7 GTI doesn't post any better straight line times down the quarter mile compared to the earlier MK6 Golf GTI? This Auto Guide video alludes to the answer, which I always maintained was the case with the MK6 GTI, that is that the MK6 GTI was making more power & torque than Volkswagen officially quoted ... probably explained why the MK6 Golf R was not that much faster than the GTI:

2013 Subaru BRZ vs. 2013 Volkswagen GTI - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiS1jL5Wtqg)

WJ

[WhiteJames]

No explanation as to why the Manual Transmission 7 Golf GTI was faster than the DSG version? Maybe it's the extra weight of the DSG gearbox? Gearing perhaps?

2015 Volkswagen Golf GTI First Test - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1406_2015_volkswagen_golf_gti_first_test/)

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Not sure where the Golf 7: GTI -v- R thread vanished too? So I'll post this autocar.co.uk track battle between the Seat Leon Cupra R -v- Golf R here ... lack of weight wins the day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5dRujiHbpA

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Still can't find the other Golf 7: GTI -v- R thread ... so here's a car advice.com.au comparison between the STI -v- Golf R:

Sports car comparison : Subaru WRX STI v Audi S3 v Volkswagen Golf R | CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/289717/sports-car-comparison-subaru-wrx-sti-v-audi-s3-v-volkswagen-golf-r/)

Crap fuel economy for STI compared to the Volkswagen!

WJ

[mfl]

Still can't find the other Golf 7: GTI -v- R thread ... so here's a car advice.com.au comparison between the STI -v- Golf R:

Sports car comparison : Subaru WRX STI v Audi S3 v Volkswagen Golf R | CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/289717/sports-car-comparison-subaru-wrx-sti-v-audi-s3-v-volkswagen-golf-r/)

Crap fuel economy for STI compared to the Volkswagen!

WJ

having just gone through the what shall I buy with the above cars, I have to admit that the fuel consumption never came into the equation.....

[WhiteJames]

Re: Fuel Economy ... Golf R gives you more for less ... now that's has to be a good thing. On that subject ... here's a review from Motor Trend.com showing how lethal the Golf GTI - PP can be around the figure 8 and under emergency braking tests:

Time Bandits: Four Sporty Ways to Cheat the Clock - Motor Trend Page 2 (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1407_comparison_four_fun_sporty_runabouts_under_30 000/winner.html)

I'm still thinking that the Manual Transmission Golf GTI - PP is the pick of the Golf bunch!

WJ

[rudiger]

I'm still thinking that the Manual Transmission Golf GTI - PP is the pick of the Golf bunch!

WJ

what about the Audi S1?

[WhiteJames]

Don't know much about the Audi S1. Looks to be the goods on paper and most probably a future classic, provided you don't go crazy with aftermarket gear. It weighs about the same as a base spec Golf GTI with a higher centre of gravity due to smaller footprint. Wait for the reviews I guess.

Speaking of Audi:

I had the opportunity to visit the Audi HQ and Museum in Ingolstadt, Germany (just over one hour train ride from Munich). Wow ... great little museum with an opportunity to tour the last hour of vehicle production in the neighbouring factory. The bistro for lunch was also great and reasonably priced. On the concourse, they had all types of Audi's from A1 to R10 with only one omission, the Audi S1.

I compared the Audi S3 which looks a bit aftermarket with extra skirting compared to the regular A3 with S-Line package that looks cleaner and neater imo.

The Audi A6 estate/wagon is really popular in Germany. They say that Audi earns about half of VW-Audi profits these days, and it shows in the quality of their vehicles, factories and museum.

Ingolstadt city is also a nice clean city with some nice platz/pedestrian ways/shops/cafes.

I also visited BMW HQ in Munich and Porsche HQ and Museum in Stuttgart. The Deutches Technical Museum, Munich is still the best for technical stuff of all types.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Here's why I drive the base Golf GTI ... it's the lightest. Just like this Audi S3 Sedan that smacks the WRX STI in a straight line ... the Audi is 100 kgs lighter than the STI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mo8QZxJKGw

I see that there is a fella on this forum trading in his damaged Golf 7 R for a Golf GTI PP ... I thought that the firm ride would be taxing after a while in the Golf 7 R. The GTI on the other hand hit the bulls-eye for that balance between comfort & sportiness.

WJ

[andrew7]

^ That fella would be me WJ ;) The proviso being that I will drive them back to back before deciding. I do head to the snow 3-4 weekends a year but AWD for this reason alone might be a stretch in pumping for the R. The R has a pretty well sorted ride but I would like to try the GTI PP for the purported fantastic ride and handling and see if the performance/grunt loss is worth it.

[WhiteJames]

Fair enough. Maybe this video review will aid your decision on which hot hatch?

$40k fun machines video comparison (http://media.drive.com.au/cars/car-reviews/40k-fun-machines-video-comparison-5605064.html?exc_from=strap)

WJ

[team_v]

^ That fella would be me WJ ;) The proviso being that I will drive them back to back before deciding. I do head to the snow 3-4 weekends a year but AWD for this reason alone might be a stretch in pumping for the R. The R has a pretty well sorted ride but I would like to try the GTI PP for the purported fantastic ride and handling and see if the performance/grunt loss is worth it.

For some reason i thought the Golf R wasn't able to have snow chains fitted due to the larger diameter wheels and bigger brakes.

[SeanThomas]

I bought my gti 6 months ago from the Sutherland dealership as I am also local, and I couldnt agree more the guys there are bunch of wank jobs. I ended up going straight through the dealer principal and he put together a great deal to make up for his sales team lack of effort. Spirro is the only salesman there that was actually helpful. So if anyone is in the local area I suggest seeing spiro at sutherland as the dealer principal has just accepted a nother role with volkswagen in mascot or parramatta i cant remember which one.

[andrew7]

For some reason i thought the Golf R wasn't able to have snow chains fitted due to the larger diameter wheels and bigger brakes.

Actually, found some team_v:) Konig Magic K7 Snow Chains | Roof Carrier Systems (http://roofcarriersystems.com.au/item/konig-magic-k7-snow-chains/)



(will copy this response over to the R thread)

[mfl]

I bought my gti 6 months ago from the Sutherland dealership as I am also local, and I couldnt agree more the guys there are bunch of wank jobs. I ended up going straight through the dealer principal and he put together a great deal to make up for his sales team lack of effort. Spirro is the only salesman there that was actually helpful. So if anyone is in the local area I suggest seeing spiro at sutherland as the dealer principal has just accepted a nother role with volkswagen in mascot or parramatta i cant remember which one.

yes I also got the indifferent treatment from the sales staff when enquiring about a manual Golf R, and simply took my business elsewhere, when it came to replacing the GTI.

[WhiteJames]

Sutherland Volkswagen have some odd ways. They do have good first up deals, but sometime are short on stock. My neighbour Ray likes Spiro at Sutho, although Ray prefers to deal with Barloworld - Five Dock more so as they seem to be looking to develop better and ongoing relationships. Here's an EVO youtube.com review of the choice Volkswagen Golf in the range: 5 door Golf GTI PP Manual Trans with 18" wheels & DCC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM4s37VIAlE

Now where is that Golf 7: GTI -v- R thread gone to?
WJ

[AdamD]

Now where is that Golf 7: GTI -v- R thread gone to?

After the right mess that became of that thread in the Mk6 section, I'm not keen for a similar thread to cause more trouble again. If you want to post anything that relates to one or the other models there are the respective discussion threads for each, which I'm sure will suffice. Sorry WJ.

[WhiteJames]

Reading the latest MOTOR Mag (Nov 2014) Ed:

I see that the 33kg heavier Skoda RS was 0.6 sec a lap slower than the PP GTI around Winton Raceway. This has me thinking: What sort of lap time would a Standard Man Trans GTI do, given that it is 93 kgs lighter than the Skoda and up to 60kgs lighter than the PP GTI. Surely there could not be that much difference in track time between STD GTI -v- PP GTI?

WJ

[daveee]

There is a YouTube video shot in the UK comparing a manual pp vs dsg gti. The pp was quicker on the track and I expect the manual was the better tranny for track work. Quite a few vids of manual vs dsg with 0-100 times being consistent and faster with dsg. Would like to see this showdown myself

[WhiteJames]

My standard Golf 7 GTI manual transmission is approaching 1 year of age & has not consumed any oil in the first 12 months. Testament to my run in methodology? Most likely.

Additionally, I notified my service department to review the initial 3-5 min rough idle/engine shudder during initial warm-up phase. Volkswagen Service have indicated that they have had other reports of Volkswagens (Golf GTI and Polo) with similar issue during initial warm up phase.

Service could not replicate it as the engine was warm when the car was brought in for service, but did allude that I was able to leave the Golf GTI overnight so as they could perform a cold-start up in the morning. At this stage, I’ve had it noted on their and my file should anything transpire.

I don’t think it’s anything terminal, as my GTI has used no oil, rather, a symptom of the start up phase fueling that has the motor struggling to run efficiently, for the purpose of a faster warm up.

My Golf 7 GTI oil temp is at 95 degrees when the old MK6 Golf GTI was at 80 degrees.

I also indicated to Volkswagen Service that it may also be a factor of less clean local Australian fuel, more importantly, a combination of warm up fuelling in concert with dirtier Australian fuel?

During the initial service, Volkswagen also conducted a recall for the software in connection with the electronic park brake – no further into as to why.

Service indicated that they have put in different oil than used during the initial run-in phase oil used for the first 15,000km. Apparently, the oil used first up is a particular type of run in oil, according to the service dept.

Otherwise all good with my 1 year old Golf 7 GTI.

Later on: perhaps some more impressions after 1 year of ownership.

WJ

[genez]

How did you run in your GTI WhiteJames?

[WhiteJames]

Run-in procedure was as per Owner's Manual guidelines.

I collected the GTI straight from the dealer, drove from Sydney to the hills of Kangaroo Valley, inland of Wollongong. Two hill-climbs up & down Macquarie Pass. Likewise on the other side of the mountain up & down Kangaroo Valley on the same day (Jamberoo is also good). Each hill climb is about 15 min in duration, expanding the motor through heat and thinning the oil a bit. During this time, no more than half throttle, gentle throttle applications and revs varied between 2,000rpm to 4,000rpm only. I'd recommend doing this in the first 150km of driving if not straight from the dealership.

This type of driving was performed a 2nd time before 500km, and again before 1,000km mark. Between 800km-1,000km the rev limit was raised to 4,500rpm with no more than half to 2/3rds of max throttle application.

I don't recommend sitting on static low revs, stop/start traffic as the piston rings do not receive enough boost to make them expand and seal against the bore sufficiently. Turbo's need to be on boost with some load-on/load-off for run-in imo. I do not recommend driving it like you stole it, especially with WOT as WOT dumps excess fuel into the chamber, possibly causing the washing out of oil with excess fuel. This may cause the bore to scorch.

I followed this procedure with both the MK6 Golf GTI and new Golf 7 GTI ... neither GTI used a drop of oil between yearly services.

WJ

[Moonee]

Picking up our standard GTI (manual) early next week so enjoyed reading right through your thread WhiteJames.

Hope you keep posting.

[Guy]

How is APR tune with new mk7? must be good!?

[Mountainman]

My Golf 7 GTI oil temp is at 95 degrees when the old MK6 Golf GTI was at 80 degrees. WJ
Doesn't that depend on ambient temperatures and the type of driving being done? My 90 TSI sits on 95 degrees in winter day temps of around 15 degrees but in summer now it is around 102 degrees and has gone as high as 108 degrees when it was cruising at 110km/h in 46 degrees last summer and reached an all time high of 111 degrees when climbing some ranges in 3rd gear in 38 degrees temps. It hasn't made it use any oil in its 56,000km of driving though in the last 17 months.

[donweather]

I was highway driving the other day in Brisbane and my oil temp was 108 deg (TSI RS Occy). Thought that was a little high.

[hoi polloi]

Noticed my oil temps tended to trend down over time as the engine ran in...

- Anthony

[thezoneR32]

Hey WJ hows your fuel consumption? Is it in line with manufacturers claims?

[WhiteJames]

The Golf 7 GTI is designed to run hotter than the previous MK6 Golf GTI. My understanding is that the MK6 was designed to run between 95-105 degree with thermostat fully closed at 95 degrees and fully open at 105 degrees, with the medium being 100 degrees. The Golf 7 GTI is supposed to run higher at 110 degrees apparently to reduce frictional losses, making the motor more efficient.

The difference in warm up from Golf 7 GTI (95 degrees) compared to the MK6 GTI (80 degrees) was done many times. The ambient temp doesn't make much of a difference in this respect. Nor does it make a great deal of difference between mid winter & mid summer when doing a 12-15 min steep mountain climb up Macquarie Pass - perhaps 2-3 degrees max difference.

I know that climbing the Macquarie Pass inland of Wollongong had the old MK6 GTI at 113 degrees in winter and 115 degrees in summer. Others say that their MK6 Golf GTI was about 115 degree oil temp towards the end of a 20 min session at Wakefield Park in Winter. So the mountain climb run-in with revs between 2-4,000rpm with light throttle application is putting a good amount of load on the piston & rings for a good bedding in process.

I haven't monitored fuel economy closely, but generally the Golf 7 seems to be more efficient by about 0.5 - 0.8 litre per 100km. Mind you, I have a Manual Trans with no options on the Golf 7 GTI that is considerably lighter than my reasonably well optioned DSG MK6 GTI (1320 kgs -v- 1380kgs approx). Fuel consumption is way over manufacturer's claim, but I would be confident in getting near the stated claim on a long highway interstate freeway trip, perhaps within 0.5 litre per 100km.

I was going to test drive a PP GTI to compare to my Std Golf 7 GTI Manual Trans during service time, but the local dealer didn't have a demo PP GTI available for comparison, so no review on the PP GTI for now.

WJ

[nat225]

The Golf 7 GTI is designed to run hotter than the previous MK6 Golf GTI. My understanding is that the MK6 was designed to run between 95-105 degree with thermostat fully closed at 95 degrees and fully open at 105 degrees, with the medium being 100 degrees. The Golf 7 GTI is supposed to run higher at 110 degrees apparently to reduce frictional losses, making the motor more efficient.

The difference in warm up from Golf 7 GTI (95 degrees) compared to the MK6 GTI (80 degrees) was done many times. The ambient temp doesn't make much of a difference in this respect. Nor does it make a great deal of difference between mid winter & mid summer when doing a 12-15 min steep mountain climb up Macquarie Pass - perhaps 2-3 degrees max difference.

I know that climbing the Macquarie Pass inland of Wollongong had the old MK6 GTI at 113 degrees in winter and 115 degrees in summer. Others say that their MK6 Golf GTI was about 115 degree oil temp towards the end of a 20 min session at Wakefield Park in Winter. So the mountain climb run-in with revs between 2-4,000rpm with light throttle application is putting a good amount of load on the piston & rings for a good bedding in process.

I haven't monitored fuel economy closely, but generally the Golf 7 seems to be more efficient by about 0.5 - 0.8 litre per 100km. Mind you, I have a Manual Trans with no options on the Golf 7 GTI that is considerably lighter than my reasonably well optioned DSG MK6 GTI (1320 kgs -v- 1380kgs approx). Fuel consumption is way over manufacturer's claim, but I would be confident in getting near the stated claim on a long highway interstate freeway trip, perhaps within 0.5 litre per 100km.

I was going to test drive a PP GTI to compare to my Std Golf 7 GTI Manual Trans during service time, but the local dealer didn't have a demo PP GTI available for comparison, so no review on the PP GTI for now.

WJ
I remember u testing and reviewing the 86 / brz. Why didnt you go with the rwd 86 / brz and chose a manual mk7 gti instead?

[Moonee]

Fuel consumption is way over manufacturer's claim

That's been my experience also. I'm hoping the explanation in my case is a tight (<200Km) engine.

[mpanza]

Go see Keith @ Mascot for a deal! ps i sent you!

[WhiteJames]

86/BRZ do not have adaptive dampers for a start. Here's a video showing that semi-active adaptive dampers on an Audi S3 sedan really do make your VAG vehicle go faster around a track. Okay ... maybe the throttle response has something to do with the lap times in addition to the suspension tune:

Audi S3 Sedan Review | CarAdvice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/325752/audi-s3-sedan-review-3/)

WJ

[WhiteJames]

2015 Volkswagen Golf R First Test - Motor Trend (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1502_2015_volkswagen_golf_r_first_test/)

[jazzyjames999]

How is APR tune with new mk7? must be good!?


Do you know anyone that has it done? Its goes up to 310bhp which I think the front wheels would struggle with, make me think would it be worth it?

[WhiteJames]

2015 Subaru WRX STI vs 2015 Volkswagen Golf R (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1503_2015_subaru_wrx_sti_vs_2015_volkswagen_golf_r/)

[WhiteJames]

After 18 months of trouble free ownership of my GTI manual ... I've lately been putting my GTI function into 'Individual'. The only difference from Normal mode in my application of Individual mode is that the throttle is put into Sport mode ... nothing else is changed.

This lengthens out the throttle travel and makes power delivery feel more linear. This helps prevent the front wheels spinning up, lighting up the TC light.

Ironically ... Individual mode with throttle in Sport and all other functions in Normal mode appear to tighten up the dampers too. I've noticed that dampers feel to be pushing the tyres into the roadway with greater rebound compression, aiding traction in addition to the more sensitive & linear Sport tuned throttle application.

Downside is that you have to put up with the sound-a-kator Sport cabin noise making that less than appealing warble noise.
WJ

[Ralfi]

After 18 months of trouble free ownership of my GTI manual ... I've lately been putting my GTI function into 'Individual'. The only difference from Normal mode in my application of Individual mode is that the throttle is put into Sport mode ... nothing else is changed.

This lengthens out the throttle travel and makes power delivery feel more linear. This helps prevent the front wheels spinning up, lighting up the TC light.

Ironically ... Individual mode with throttle in Sport and all other functions in Normal mode appear to tighten up the dampers too. I've noticed that dampers feel to be pushing the tyres into the roadway with greater rebound compression, aiding traction in addition to the more sensitive & linear Sport tuned throttle application.

Downside is that you have to put up with the sound-a-kator Sport cabin noise making that less than appealing warble noise.
WJ

Thanks for that. I'm still rotating modes & trying to work out the differences between them. Might be a while before I work it all out, but posts like yours help.

[WhiteJames]

After 3-4 months I've changed from individual back to Normal mode. Feels like a slightly different GTI. Individual with throttle in 'Sport' began to feel like the gas pedal was a well modulated, but grainy.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

Had my Golf 7 GTI serviced recently. I left the GTI overnight at the dealership so as the dealer was able to do a cold start first thing in the morning. Reason being is, unlike my previous MK6 and MKV GTI's, the 7 GTI's motor seems to shudder for the first few minutes after initial start only when motor is cold. Dealer hooked it up to the diagnostics and said that my motor is within 1-2 percent of recommended readings. It was also stated that the cold motor warm-up shudder is not uncommon for the Golf 7 GTI as the ECU dumps lots of fuel into the motor for part of the first minute during initial warm up. It's great that the motor has not used a drop of oil in about 2 years.

WJ

[WhiteJames]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9FnRvUoA9w