Petes Polo goes big

[Bullet Fast]

Gav knows already, but for what it's worth, my 9n3 Gti is on work stands in the back of my shop getting the worx treatment. There's a huge pile of internationally mailed parts sitting next the car. Quick summary: Frankenturbo hybrid, MAF, TIP, injectors, fuel pump intercooler intake etc etc. theres a couple of small things that will get done while the engine is so accessible, ill make some bits and pieces here and there...

Interestingly, the turbo bolts were finger tight when I pulled the snail. The gasket looked like a burnt taco. Manifold has a crack across a web towards at the turbo flange radiating out to a bolt hole. Hot side turbo housing has a matching crack between waste gate and turbine port. Hmmm, Really should think about idling turbos before shut down hey? There doesn't appear to be any end float of the shaft, but who cares now anyway?

I will have to put the Frankenturbo manifold in for the moment, although honestly I'm not impressed. You would think Frankenturbo could be a little choosier with their QA/QC, it's just an ugly casting. I ran the laser scanner over the manifolds to start some reverse engineering on the design but honestly I can't see it a viable project... It's such a tight gap and difficult shape to work with. It would be cool though, I might ring a foundry and ask for a laugh.

Car will get an exhaust but probably only a DP and Cat.

So all I have left to decide on is an oil type... Any suggestions? I'm a fan of: buy the most expensive oil you can afford to change every six months.

[h100vw]

Gav knows already, but for what it's worth, my 9n3 Gti is on work stands in the back of my shop getting the worx treatment. There's a huge pile of internationally mailed parts sitting next the car. Quick summary: Frankenturbo hybrid, MAF, TIP, injectors, fuel pump intercooler intake etc etc. theres a couple of small things that will get done while the engine is so accessible, ill make some bits and pieces here and there...

Interestingly, the turbo bolts were finger tight when I pulled the snail. The gasket looked like a burnt taco. Manifold has a crack across a web towards at the turbo flange radiating out to a bolt hole. Hot side turbo housing has a matching crack between waste gate and turbine port. Hmmm, Really should think about idling turbos before shut down hey? There doesn't appear to be any end float of the shaft, but who cares now anyway?

I will have to put the Frankenturbo manifold in for the moment, although honestly I'm not impressed. You would think Frankenturbo could be a little choosier with their QA/QC, it's just an ugly casting. I ran the laser scanner over the manifolds to start some reverse engineering on the design but honestly I can't see it a viable project... It's such a tight gap and difficult shape to work with. It would be cool though, I might ring a foundry and ask for a laugh.

Car will get an exhaust but probably only a DP and Cat.

So all I have left to decide on is an oil type... Any suggestions? I'm a fan of: buy the most expensive oil you can afford to change every six months.

Don't forget to take pictures.

:D

[Polo GTEye N9]

Yes please, take lots of pictures and post them progressively.

Good idea Gav......

[firdausasri]

Gav knows already, but for what it's worth, my 9n3 Gti is on work stands in the back of my shop getting the worx treatment. There's a huge pile of internationally mailed parts sitting next the car. Quick summary: Frankenturbo hybrid, MAF, TIP, injectors, fuel pump intercooler intake etc etc. theres a couple of small things that will get done while the engine is so accessible, ill make some bits and pieces here and there...

Interestingly, the turbo bolts were finger tight when I pulled the snail. The gasket looked like a burnt taco. Manifold has a crack across a web towards at the turbo flange radiating out to a bolt hole. Hot side turbo housing has a matching crack between waste gate and turbine port. Hmmm, Really should think about idling turbos before shut down hey? There doesn't appear to be any end float of the shaft, but who cares now anyway?

I will have to put the Frankenturbo manifold in for the moment, although honestly I'm not impressed. You would think Frankenturbo could be a little choosier with their QA/QC, it's just an ugly casting. I ran the laser scanner over the manifolds to start some reverse engineering on the design but honestly I can't see it a viable project... It's such a tight gap and difficult shape to work with. It would be cool though, I might ring a foundry and ask for a laugh.

Car will get an exhaust but probably only a DP and Cat.

So all I have left to decide on is an oil type... Any suggestions? I'm a fan of: buy the most expensive oil you can afford to change every six months.

Glad to hear another Polo GTI with FrankenTurbo. Keep us updated ya :)

[Redliner]

Check out the frankenturbo actuator thread on VWVortex.
It may be worth changing the actuator before the install.
Are you going with the F23 or the F21?
Goodluck with the build.

[Bullet Fast]

I'm usually to busy swearing and busting knuckles for photos. I'm good with screen shots though.

Its an F21t. Good tip on the actuator. Ill have a look tomorrow. There's no reason to think mine's any different. There might need to be a transfer old to new. Gav have you seen this on yours? I've been thinking a MBC might not be a bad idea anyway...

What do you want to see? It looks like a regular polo with a seat cooler and green injectors! Ill take some rev engineering screen shots, cause that's pretty badass.

[VWindahouse]

Nice work Pete! Great upgrade there fella, but you may be better off using the ko3s actuator with the f21. You only need to see 6 psi with the F21 and that's what the BW actuator should be at from factory give or take a couple of quarter turns.

[noone]

Assuming Stage 3 CC?
Good to see another BT/HT going on, went from a drought to a flood.

[Bullet Fast]

Nice work Pete! Great upgrade there fella, but you may be better off using the ko3s actuator with the f21. You only need to see 6 psi with the F21 and that's what the BW actuator should be at from factory give or take a couple of quarter turns.

I read throu all the garbage on vwvortex. TBH, business ethics aside, there's really not a lot going there that actually makes sense. It would seem most guys are upset the thing isn't tuneable to a point that it'll support high boost applications, of course that's assuming the turbos are shipped with consistently tuned waste gates, which is likely the issue. As someone who really loves the scientific process, the assumptions being floated as evidence really grind my gears. It's super easy to test spring tensions properly, but because the issue wasn't treated carefully none of the protagonists will ever know. Pointing to a spring and deciding it looks different and therefore is inferior is false. Happy to argue.

Of course though, if we assume all the actuators are set incorrectly, but actuator travel at a correctly set preload still offers full (or at least effective) waste gate movement then all that's left is a properly set preload. That's also assuming that it opens consistently. Which is almost certain a function of waste gate mechanics and build quality rather than the actuator itself. Thankfully I'm in a perfect position to learn all of these things, tomorrow; with a brand new turbo and waste gate. Any body want to take bets at crack pressure?

If anything looks even remotely sus after I set preload, ill test the OEM actuator and transfer it, which we all know is just fine for most tunes, almost certainly what I'm planning. I hope. On a stage 3 custom code. Hmmmm... Yeah?

Happy to take educated advice on this?

[VWindahouse]

You're right a lot of crap to sift through. The posts from Marcus Aurelius are the ones to read.

Adding a heap of preload to make up for a weak spring to achieve the desired crack pressure is not the answer, and I think that's what you need to keep in mind to get the best out of Gav's tune.

Anyway I don't think the issue will effect the F21 as much only needing 6psi crack pressure (assuming that's what Gav will request) not 10-12 like the F23, but I'm looking forward to seeing your test results for sure.

[Bullet Fast]

It's pretty ugly. I couldn't get pressure readings this morning, neither gauge I used actually registered before the gates lifted. Having said that the short stroke issue is well and truly built into my turbo. Measured at the widest opening; once both actuators are bottomed out the OEM gate is 4 mm further open than the FT.

[Bullet Fast]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t093uc6e98z6b0i/20130712_072033.jpg
K03 at full lift. About 19mm at the highest point

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2c0bswa9ttg0ow/20130712_071951.jpg

FT at full lift. Only 15mm of opening. There is a waste gate port there, but its 2mm less across the diameter than the standard housing?! Absolutely not ported at all.

On a positive, once I'd swapped the actuator over I ended up with 24mm of lift and the same amount of preload, assuming this was correct to begin with.

Doesn't look like Dropbox public images will show using IMG function?

[VWindahouse]

Holy crap, I didn't suspect the FT to be that bad. Nice work!

[noone]

Photobucket is the way forward for your pic hosting. Franken seem to know their internals but the rest seems pretty rubbish.

[Bullet Fast]

Check this out, so I didn't realise the airbox, 3in MAF and TIP wouldn't play nicely together. So I designed a new one.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/07/3223444b8a6b6a3982cc3084da940b16_zps1faf-1.jpg

The green colour comes the plastic, it's a digital ABS like material from objet. It's designed to fit the bottom half of the airbox and my ebay tip. It'll fit the Seat CAI of course. This is the MAF join, cut out is for the welded boss. The port is also angled off by 10degs to meet the tip at a better angle. It's a bit hard to see in the image. It fits the bottom half of the airbox beautifully.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/07/446ae4b7f7aaa81836efcd71f04efec8_zps14a7-1.jpg

And here's the underside. The inlet porting continues to twist in two planes to meet the existing air filter as best as possible, whilst maintaining one throat (2.75in) width standoff-ish. Wall thickness is about 5-7mm depending on the spot.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/07/78e67f2833cd74620050b60ce70325d4_zps9b3b-1.jpg

Material is temp stabilised (HDT) to about 90-100 degrees, and very strong. It's a bit heavier than I'd hoped, around 2.5kg. Better than too light of course. That's about it. Ill post up another picture once its sanded painted and installed. Google Objet Connex printer for more info on the machine.

[vwthunder]

Wow that is awesome, thinking of all the things that could be made, hmmmmmmmm

[noone]

Wow. Very impressive

[AntiFun]

Objet Connex printer for more info on the machine.

I knew this looked like a 3d printer job, that's so awesome! I never even considered 3d printing in automotive applications..... This might be a good work around here in vic for those who need a stock filter box for RWC.... How much did the plastic cost you all up if you don't mind me asking...

[VWindahouse]

Next level Pete :cool:

[Bullet Fast]

Sorry mate, too much to publicly disclose.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[Bullet Fast]

So everything is done. Minus a final tune and a dyno for fun. Essentially stage 3 custom code with all the regular upgrades and a FT21t.

Long story short it's fairly exhilarating. Very point and shoot. But it does needs better brakes, bigger wheels and more suspension. More to follow.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 4

[Bullet Fast]

And more to follow now.

So Gav has come by, fixed a niggly adaption issue and do some logs and the car runs like a champ. What'd we say Gav about 280 peak crank hp? I'm not sure how much a reflash will tidy up the tune, but boost could probably be throttled back a bit. Peak manifold boost is showing up to 26psi... I've got two 'helper' extension springs on the waste gate actuator that about 2psi to the crack pressure each. FWIW I ditched the FT waste gate it looked and worked like rubbish.

I tested the stock waste gate on the turbo with a boost gauge and hand pump, cranking the rod didn't change stock waste gate opening pressure beyond 1psi. Barely wound up the waste gate opens at 6psi with about 25mm of lift but cranked up it lifts about 5mm at 7psi. At least in my mind that myth is busted. Strapping a couple of springs on the outside adds 2psi crack pressure each. Two springs nets about 22-24psi of boost, if I take one off it pulls only 18psi and runs like a slug. Comparatively speaking anyway.

Stuck a New South boost gauge in the drivers side aircon vent, breaking 3 out of 4 plastic clips in the process. Running the wires was a nightmare but the pressure line off the inlet manifold went straight in.

I've got some tt front calipers and carriers getting tidied up now. They'll get some vht red paint and seals. Tossing up solid bushes... Not sure if they're available; they can always be made! But no rush. These will get some braided lines, I've been quoted $100 per line for ADR compliant jobs which are the labelled, swaged type, not sure if this is reasonable or not just yet. Pads too, EBC green stuff is a personal thing but whatever comes. Rotors are annoying me though. Discs aren't cheap. DBA have a few sport discs left over at like $200ea! Can save about $50 through ebay. Yeehaw! Id be happy to machine some second hand ones if there's any lying around...

The front really needs a bit more anti roll too. Either the pedders or Ultraracing. At least the pedders are a little adjustable. I'm dreading putting it in. Really thinking about paying someone to do it for me! Engine cross brace too, I'm hoping the Ultraracing one will fit over the airbox as per the other thread. Me and another guy at work are talking cro-mo bar running straight across the top. There room for a 30mm bar/tube going barely in front of the ecu, and turning to meet the inner wings flat, nailing the two closest bolts together. There's probably $75 bucks worth of cro-mo bar and 5-6mm plate, and the pain in the arse of bending alloy steel and welding... I'd guess four hours and then it needs paint... Makes the Ultraracing brace a bargain!

What else? The shift plate bushes and cable end plates. I'm keen on a set of those two. I've got brass and bronze off cuts at works which would be sweet for the cable ends!

And that's about it! Missus goes away Friday night for the weekend so it'll be a mountain biking and machine shop weekend! Yeeeew!

PS same guy with the engine cross brace suggested we replace the entire middle section of the front bumper with a massive machined infill plate to help the intercooler breath, complete with hexagonal holes! In his own words he hears voices at night that tell him to make things!

[Bullet Fast]

I'm trying this at the moment with mixed success. I'm finding the caliper binds on brass bushes fairly easily. It might be fit related, ill try and get it a little tighter but I think ill end up with regular bushes instead.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/11/pyjuduqu-1.jpg

[Stuwey]

Tyrolsport kit?

[seangti]

I'm trying this at the moment with mixed success. I'm finding the caliper binds on brass bushes fairly easily. It might be fit related, ill try and get it a little tighter but I think ill end up with regular bushes instead.


What's the compressive and tensile strength of brass like? I can't quite understand which part of the car I'm looking at in your photo (guess brakes given your reference to caliper) and what sort of force is being applied to the brass bushing, though I'd have thought brass would be too soft for many automotive applications. I'd also consider it's fatigue rate. I'm no metallurgist and really only drawing on 1st/2nd year engineering principles.

My internet at work is playing up, otherwise I'd have checked compressive and tensile strength before commenting. Better to be safe than sorry.

RE braided lines, I looked at getting some directly from HEL in the UK, worked out about the price of sourcing the same gear locally.

[h100vw]

Tyrolsport kit?

Pete is making this stuff at work. Too much spare time on his hands. :D

[Bullet Fast]

I wish I had more time, I do all this after hours. I need to get a bit more back from the man.

Sean these were done up in brass. Tyrolsport are using bronze, probably an alloy. I've got to some sizes and clearances I'm reasonably happy with. Next step is to try bronze, on one caliper and see if its noticeably less draggy. The last set I made this afternoon move quite nicely. Compressive strength shouldn't be a problem. Grease might be though.

[Eddy]

Tyrolsport kit?

Hoyhoy.

Stu, only for when ya upgrade to the 312mm front rotors using Audi TTMk1 calipers.


Tyrolsport brake caliper stiffening kit (http://www.tyrolsport.com/brakes/tyrolsport-brake-caliper-stiffening-kit-for-vw/audi/)