Kill my inner child - sub $10k daily beater

[Buller_Scott]

Hi guys, I'm calling on your collective wealth of knowledge when it comes to cars, because I know it's so diverse, and I need some real advice here.

The story: was broke/ unemployed for a while > decent position in growing company, recently > now I have a bit more financial freedom than, well, being broke lol > back in the market for a car.

The motivation: if I allocated the same percentage of my income to my next car, as I did to my shtty little Polo TDI (I loved that car), I'd be lining up something like a second hand C63, e92 M3, new RS265 Megane (cheap but awesome), 135i blah blah blah, maybe stretch to a 2011 Nissan GTR. But alas, my sensible side has kicked in, and I'm looking to nurture my income elsewhere.

Thinking:
- it'll be parked outside on the street, subject to rain, hail and bird crap, but will be driven to the snow (I'll get chains)
- sub $10k, around 7-8 would be ideal (let's face it, it'll be a sh7tter that I'll drive hard on cold starts, etc)
- hatch or small sedan (commofalcons are cheap, but I'll be the only person in the car, otherwise me +dog)
- RELIABLE! I'll keep up with scheduled service for sure, but I don't want something that's going to conk out in the next 3 years / below 200,000 km's even with regular maintenance
- decent service-ability - nothing that's been so long-gone from Australia that e.g. a water pump or timing belt would be impossible to obtain
- whatever you guys want to pitch at me. People associate Renault with unreliability, but we know the F4R engines (I think?) in the 172 Clio are good to go. Yell anything at me!

List so far:
- nissan cube (micra sht inside, quirky)
- fiat punto
- 6n polo
- nissan micra (currently renting one for a month, fkcing love the thing - it's got good visibility, roomy inside, and isht enough not to care about)
- 1st gen honda jazz
- 1st gen toyota yaris, or toyota echo
- early 2000's 'rolla, or camry
- toyota caldina (high km's, not sure)

Anything else you guys want to put ideas into my head with? i'm casting my net pretty far on this one - as long as i can get it serviced, and it's reliable, then it'll go on my shortlist.

Thanks in advance - i'm relying on experience and broad thinking - the play toy will come soon enough, but for now, i need something that will take a beating (which will probably make me fall in love with it, haha).

Cheers guys :)

[team_v]

To be honest, the Mazda 2/Honda Jazz is a pretty good pickup.
You might be able to jag a Mazda 3 for that price range now too.

If you want a cheap daily that is reasonably fun to chuck around, then Japan is your go to place.

[kaanage]

Come back to the fold, Scotty!!
2007 Volkswagen Polo 9N TDI MY2007 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Volkswagen-Polo-2007/SSE-AD-2182851/?Cr=0)

At least have a drive of mine before condemning them as $hitboxes - I reckon that poly dogbone mount really fuçked yours up (mine comes off as soon as the track day finishes)

[Domel]

I know it's not on your list and it's quite different to what you've considered so far, but a nice low mileage (sub-200k) e30 318is could be had for less than $10k. It's an older car but very reliable and super fun to drive. I am biased though :)

[THE_EGG]

2007-2008 Ford Fiesta XR4? Great little cars, one of my friends has one. They seem to be around $7500-$12000 <- definitely my choice if I were choosing.

Volvo S40?

[Transporter]

Honda Jazz is quite a bulletproof car, cheap servicing (doesn't need many parts). When buying secondhand watch out for the noisy rear wheel bearings, that's the only thing that goes wrong with them - to my knowing anyway and not that expensive to repair.

[QBDentFree]

You want something cheap and sensible? It'd be hard to look past the newest corolla your budget allows. It'll be much, much nicer to drive than your Micra, and will keep going forever

[99_FGT]

Suzuki Swift were a decent throw about in that price and size...
I'd also say a Renault Sport Clio, but that might not fit the reliable bill. But it will bring a smile to your face every time it does go.

[brad]

Of the cars on your list I'd scratch off the Fiat & possibly the caldina (which I know nothing about). The others shouldn't give too many issues although the Jazz would be my pick.

Ford Fiesta are very good.

I'd also consider a Gen4 Liberty or an Impreza if you are going to the snow a bit.

[Ideo]

BMW 328i manual coupe. E36.

Simple to work on. Parts from the UK/US are cheap. Ultra reliable if you get one that has been well looked after.

[Sharkie]

Higher mileage early 9n3GTIs now round $10k, pretty reliable good in fuel and more fun than anything mentioned so far ...... They are awesome little cars

[QBDentFree]

Suzuki Swift were a decent throw about in that price and size...
I'd also say a Renault Sport Clio, but that might not fit the reliable bill. But it will bring a smile to your face every time it does go.

I almost suggested a Swift too, but I thought they were still worth a bit much. If you can get a decent one in your budget then go for it. I bought one for my partner a year or so ago and it hasn't missed a beat

[mikinoz]

Buy a 2.0 MK3 and then when it dies, buy another (you can do this 3 times for $10K) :D

[gldgti]

People keep recommending the honda Jazz..... I'm not sure how much time any of the reccommenders have spent in one. The Jazz has some of the worst seats I've ever sat in. My workmate has one and he literally staggers around for 5 minutes after he arrives at work. Plus gutless much.

Get a mk3 golf, 2.0L, or a mk4 golf 2.0L, or a Ibiza GTI 2.0L 8V... that would be my pick for ticking the boxes.

[Loopa]

Might be an evil word, but what about a Missingbitzi lancer? My wife had one for 7 years, and I can't think of a single thing that went wrong with it.

[BluChris]

My wife has a base model manual 07 Yaris. Sure it's no Euro to drive but it just plain goes. Never any drama, nothing breaks, very economical, versatile and practical, servicing is every 6 months but not partiularly exxy, parts are no issue, because it never seems to need any. Easy to resell down the track when you're over it.

If you're getting a daily driver plus another for fun this is really the kind of set and forget thing you need. That way you spend your $ on the fun car not on propping up the ageing Euro you bought for 'hassle free' motoring.

[Water Boy]

Id get a VW Up as daily. But maybe bit expensive

[Buller_Scott]

Hi guys, thank you very much for your rapid responses - i'm loving the diversity in your advice, it's helping me cast my net even further! I just want to say that there are some interesting suggestions in here, and i thank you for them - Domel, you talk about ''bias'', but that is just what i'm looking for - experience! in this case, i respect the e30 too much to want to mindlessly rip the isht out of it upon startup. thanks though!

Clay: I'm thinking along your lines, that something from Mazda/ Honda might just be the ticket.

Greg: I'm not sure if you ever saw my pog in proper spec - the konis, mounts, advanced cam (on top of the aggressive cuk map), poly bushes (hard), gsl brake setup, FED 595 RSR's on the front - i've wowed peeps at another multi-make drivers club that had evo ~9, r33 gtr, e46 m3... i hung with gerard's stg2+ audi s3 over reefton, ahead of everyone else. i loved my polo, i say it's a pce of isht cordially, but i loved that car, i respect it, and i absolutely know what it's capable of.... i could never get into another one, and show it the kind of disrespect that i want to be able to view my next daily drive with... i'm too fond of the polo tdi. i need a car i can hack.

to the mk3 protagonists: i hear you for real, but i feel that a nicer daily interior (with lighter steering and slightly better features can be had from a japanese make, within my budget, but thank you - it absolutely makes sense to suggest a mk3 - totally viable.

bmw protags: i hear you, and i'm thinking of something a little less... "i care about you". legit suggestion though. thank you.

gldgti: thanks for your input... i'm leaning the way of the small japs, but i appreciate your experience. cheers!

james: i totally hear you - i reckon i could r7pe a VW dealership on the up, given the recent bad media vibes. i'll add that to my list.

Thanks gents! list so far: jazz, yaris, cube (because im thick headed), up (well, down... on price).

keep them good vibes coming!!!

[Buller_Scott]

oops, SHARKIE - i have huge respect for the pog GTI. at this point i'm not looking at something playful - i don't mean to insult anyone anywhere, but when the time is right, i wont be spurting $$$ into a polo - it'll either be a suzuki swift sport, rent4ring stg 4 spec (8:15 lap times around the 'Ring), or a clio 197/200 with, well, AST's, clutch.... maybe something else cheeky.

thanks though!

[kaanage]

Greg: I'm not sure if you ever saw my pog in proper spec - the konis, mounts, advanced cam (on top of the aggressive cuk map), poly bushes (hard), gsl brake setup, FED 595 RSR's on the front - i've wowed peeps at another multi-make drivers club that had evo ~9, r33 gtr, e46 m3... i hung with gerard's stg2+ audi s3 over reefton, ahead of everyone else. i loved my polo, i say it's a pce of isht cordially, but i loved that car, i respect it, and i absolutely know what it's capable of.... i could never get into another one, and show it the kind of disrespect that i want to be able to view my next daily drive with... i'm too fond of the polo tdi. i need a car i can hack.

Scotty, I remember your car well, right up until the 4WD wrote it off but what I'm saying is that you went so hard core on it that you found it an unpleasant place to spend time in when daily driving. Mine hasn't been taken so far and I reckon it is terrific as a daily drive as well as respectable in the tight stuff.

The PoD can hack anything you'll throw at it - your old one did.

It's all very well saying you'll have a fun toy and just use your the daily drive as an appliance to get around but think of how much time you'll spend in it.

[brad]

A few of other suggestions:

Accord Euro (the original before they bloated it). Fantastic car if the dampers are still good & the tyres are decent quality.

Renault Clio "fast thing" (a mate has one & it's suprisingly reliable)

SAAB. You'll get so much bang for your buck. Again, a mate has one & it's been more reliable than any of the VW group cars in my circle of friends. Do your research there's a magic year (2005?) and anything after that is pretty good.

[dylan8]

Polo 9n tdi?
Still have some coin for coils and tune

[PassatB6]

You can get a 2012 VW UP! for less than 10k with 2 yrs warranty left.

This one is a MY13.http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Volkswagen-up-2012/AGC-AD-14000317/?Cr=1

[Lucas_R]

Pulsar SSS (N14 or N15 model - although the older N14 looks way better and would fall well under your 10K budget). Might be a bit of a challenge to find one that hasn't been owned by multiple P platers and had backyard mods done though.

Honda Civic VTI-R in either hatch or more rare coupe form. Or a Honda Integra VTI-R or Prelude VTI-R for than matter.

All fun cars with revvy and reliable engines which should give you plenty of trouble free motoring km's.

On a slightly lesser note, what about the Mazda 323 SP20 or Ford Laser SR2 (same car).

[mikinoz]

A friend bought a 05 1.6 5sp MKV for $6k 2 weeks ago. Keep your eyes peeled there are bargains all over the place.

[Buller_Scott]

hi gents, thanks heaps for the plentiful and varied suggestions - i'll be honest, i've started trawling through carsales for some of the earlier civics, e36 bmw's, sp20 mazda, a bunch of others - there's A LOT to be found at my price point, which is pretty gratifying!



Scotty, you went so hard core on it that you found it an unpleasant place to spend time in when daily driving.

The PoD can hack anything you'll throw at it - your old one did.



Polo 9n tdi?
Still have some coin for coils and tune

greg, good point, i can't deny that it's a beautiful car that has a place in my heart because of how unassuming it was, yet how much it could do. don't get your hopes up greg - i want to move in another direction, but yourself and dylan have convinced me to not scratch the pogtdi off my list just yet.



Accord Euro (the original before they bloated it). Fantastic car if the dampers are still good & the tyres are decent quality.

Renault Clio "fast thing" (a mate has one & it's suprisingly reliable)

SAAB.

accord euro is something i've been looking at - they seem like A LOT of car for the relatively little money they demand on carsales. clio is.... ugh. i really shouldnt, but they're so cheap that they're hard to completely ignore. SAAB has been VERY on my radar if i want to push my budget out, but then the only thing that I wonder is where would i get the thing serviced? i hope there's still a few saab enthusiast/ specialist garages around melbourne.


You can get a 2012 VW UP! for less than 10k with 2 yrs warranty left.


this is something i've been thinking about. going to a stealership and using their whole "urgency sales tactics 101" thing against them - "i want a povo spec one for $10,500. i've lined up 4 other dealerships. whoever can meet that price or come closest, gets the sale TODAY". dunno if that'd work - never bargained before (because i'm a b7tch).


Pulsar SSS (N14 or N15 model - although the older N14 looks way better and would fall well under your 10K budget). Might be a bit of a challenge to find one that hasn't been owned by multiple P platers and had backyard mods done though.

Honda Civic VTI-R, Mazda 323 SP20 or Ford Laser SR2 (same car).

legit. will start carsales window shopping.


A friend bought a 05 1.6 5sp MKV for $6k 2 weeks ago. Keep your eyes peeled there are bargains all over the place.

good point - i guess those 1.6's are just as tried-and-true an engine as some of the others in the VAG lineup. will start trawling.

thanks heaps, guys. this is opening my eyes in terms of just what is possible. any other weird and different suggestions, don't hold back!

[BluChris]

Alrighty, you want weird or left field, hen's teeth for a good one but Volvo 850R. Go hard in standard trim and despite the reputation go faster bits for Volvo are everywhere. Great sleeper.

[brad]

Alrighty, you want weird or left field, hen's teeth for a good one but Volvo 850R. Go hard in standard trim and despite the reputation go faster bits for Volvo are everywhere. Great sleeper.
My neighbour (Volvo specialist & parts importer) became a millionaire on Volvo 850. They weren't the most reliable thing in the world. Should be pretty cheap by now as they are getting pretty old.

[BluChris]

Hey, I did suggest a Yaris first, but the brief seems to be straying a long way from the OP's original question :) Any of the European cars suggested here at less than 10k are likely to be a gamble.

I still think the first idea of a cheap Japanese runabout plus a fun project car makes more sense than buying 2 cars that could both turn into projects. That said if you're going to make the daily a project as well, might as well make it something with an interesting starting base rather than a cooking model you have to put a lot of work into just to get it beyond boring

[Arnold]

I'd increase your budget to $20,000. $10k for a man of your calibre is kids' stuff.

The headline cost of owning a $20,000 car is not much different from a $10k car when one considers operating costs which do not vary or do not vary much with a $10k change in the value of the car, eg:

- Insurance $500/$800
- Rego $300
- CTP $500
- Fuel $2000
- Road tolls $250
- Maintenance $750

and, in fact, maintenance costs on a newer $20k car may be less and, indeed, a $20k car may have at least 12 months' warranty as it could be well under 3 years old vs closer to 8 years old.

The only costs that vary proportionately are depreciation and interest (or opportunity cost). And bear in mind, depreciation is a non-cash item that could provide tax benefits in certain circumstances.

Interest on a $20k car will be at, say 7%, $1400 vs $700 on a $10k car and depreciation on a decent second hand car would be around 10% pa (straight line, say), so around $1,000 difference between the two. $1,700 pa in total.

To the extent the MV is for business use, these could be pre-tax figures and be substantially less in after-tax dollars.

Against total annual costs of say $6000 for the $10k car and $8,000 for the $20k car, you're only talking about around 33% higher costs for a car that is worth 100% more and could be less costly to maintain.

Hondas have gone off the boil however Mazda is the Japanese brand that comes closest to offering the attributes that appeal to VW enthusiasts and a very good Mazda3 could be had for $20k including stamp duty.

At the end of the day, you are twice as likely to be wishing you are sitting in a near-new $20k car than wishing you'd spent less and bought a $10k jalopy.

In other words, a 33% chance of dissatisfaction if you buy a $20k car vs a 67% chance of being dissatisfied if you only spend $10k, and all for only 33% additional cost of ownership per annum!

[Ideo]

There's a Skoda Octavia VRS for 12k on Carsales at the moment.

[kaanage]

Hey, I did suggest a Yaris first, but the brief seems to be straying a long way from the OP's original question :) Any of the European cars suggested here at less than 10k are likely to be a gamble.

I still think the first idea of a cheap Japanese runabout plus a fun project car makes more sense than buying 2 cars that could both turn into projects. That said if you're going to make the daily a project as well, might as well make it something with an interesting starting base rather than a cooking model you have to put a lot of work into just to get it beyond boring

A $10k 9N3 TDi wouldn't be a gamble. And note that the OP has specified
but will be driven to the snow (I'll get chains) which would be a dreary experience in a lot of the small Japanese cars mentioned.

A ~2005 Ford Focus wouldn't be bad as it had the best chassis in its class (better than the MkVI Golf that we replaced ours with) and the equivalent Mazda 3 would be reasonable, too, since it's pretty much the same chassis
eg http://www.carsguide.com.au/cars-for-sale/D_1887836/

This Nissan Pulsar would be a decent option, as well http://www.kingstoncars.com.au/Automotive/Cars/Cars-For-Sale/NISSAN-PULSAR-ST-N16-MY03-5D-HATCHBACK/D4206102506393/details.aspx

[Mk3 AAA]

Haven't read the thread besides first post. I'd go a Mazda 3 SP23.

[Arnold]

I'd increase your budget to $20,000. $10k for a man of your calibre is kids' stuff.

I take that back. Stick to the $10k budget with which you're comfortable, Scotty. A Mazda3 for that kind of money should still provide fairly trouble-free motoring and driving enjoyment.

[Buller_Scott]

Thanks for your responses, guys.

I'm zooming in on prospects, with just ONE "i really shouldnt" car... ugh.

(it's pretty hard to ignore those gloriously crap French resale values).

[Gti Dave]

Maybe im reading between the lines but a renault seems to be playing with your heart strings? Otherwise you really cant go wrong with a manual honda jazz as ive mentioned in the past.very practical, loves to rev and most probably by far with the greatest shopping capacity. Lol.