Looking to buy Jetta Soon

[Joesama]

Hi guys.
New to the forum.
Have already introduced myself in the Newbie Corner.

I have got so many questions for you guys here.
Currently looking to buy Jetta in about 6 to 7 month time. Other wise off to Kia for the new Cerato.
Any how, eyeing on the 118 tsi Comfortline.
But between MY12 and MY13.. is the only difference the control console?
Also, I read about alot of people complaining about the DSG failures and engine issues.
Are they really common issues in the current Jetta Models?
Lastly, does the current Jetta really uses engine belts? instead of chains?

I did a search on them but I couldnt find any real solid answers on the above questions.
Other wise very good informative forum... like how 1.4L engine performs and other things like fuel consumptions and feel of the car.

Thanks in advance.

joe....

[DoggiesUtd]

Hi guys.
New to the forum.
Have already introduced myself in the Newbie Corner.

I have got so many questions for you guys here.
Currently looking to buy Jetta in about 6 to 7 month time. Other wise off to Kia for the new Cerato.
Any how, eyeing on the 118 tsi Comfortline.
But between MY12 and MY13.. is the only difference the control console?
Also, I read about alot of people complaining about the DSG failures and engine issues.
Are they really common issues in the current Jetta Models?
Lastly, does the current Jetta really uses engine belts? instead of chains?

I did a search on them but I couldnt find any real solid answers on the above questions.
Other wise very good informative forum... like how 1.4L engine performs and other things like fuel consumptions and feel of the car.

Thanks in advance.

joe....

i've had a jetta 2litre tsi highline for about 2-3 months now and loving it...i went for the highline because i heard so many bad stories about the 118tsi motor, and because it's been discontinued now, that kind of made my mind up.

before i got my highline...the dealership let me drive the 118tsi around until my highline came in from overseas...and all i can say is....it is a great drive!!
very comfortable car...drives very nice...nice power from the twincharged motor....and very good on fuel economy compared to my highline lol.......
if u r looking for fuel economy and decent power but dont want to get the highline due to the price...id say go for the comfortline in the diesel.....i didnt test drive one...but i've heard they are really good!
i have no regrets purchasing the jetta...i got it brand new for 37k brand new...and loving driving it everyday

[s4206465]

The M12 and M13 comfortline also has the visual difference. U get a chrome trim strip on the bottom of the side windows and u get leather arm rest. The air conditioning console is also different looking!

[Joesama]

Right..
Thanks guys.. So really its a minor changes and nothing technical or mechanical.

I think the most important part is, do they use Engine Belt? instead of chains?
Im just worried that if Belt is used.. the cost of replacing them in service is gonna be massive.

joe....

[ziggyboy]

Hi and welcome to VWW.

I own the first MY of the current Jetta purchased December 2011. I agree that it is a great car to drive but my reservations are with its reliability and support from VW dealerships. I haven't heard a single TDI or Highline owner complain about theirs so I'm quite confident that the issues are only for the 118TSI+DSG cars.

Since owning the car I have had the clutch kid replaced due to shuddering, the supercharger waterpump replaced due to acceleration whining, a drive shaft part replaced due to a botched clutch kit job, and now having air conditioning problems. I own the non-Comfortline so its a manual aircon. I can't replicate it consistently so it has been difficult trying to get VW to fix it.

With regards to support from VW, check out this post I had tonight: http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2039417&p=4#r78

[human traffic]

having just bought a my12 all the details are still fresh in my mind :) the difference are def. very small and personally i like it without the added blingy stripes on the windows, leave that for the passats.

havent heard anything about the belt/chain scenario but i am a little concerned with what ziggyboy mentioned above!

[Joesama]

Ok..
So pretty much me and my wife decided that it would be best not to get Jetta any more.
One thing though, I would like to know from you guys side.
The 7 speed DSG. I read in the General section of the recall debacle (In this forum) that you have to drive it like as if you are driving a manual? And that you shouldn't just let go of the brakes to creep up front when in traffic? Is this a true statement? I find this really hard to believe. Or can you drive it like any other automatic cars?
And the 118 TSI.. People are having issues with this particular engines?

I'm asking these questions because from my understanding, I thought that these problems were ok for the cars that were MY12 and beyond.
And can some one confirm if Jetta has drive belt or drive chain?
I still have a slim chance of getting the car if the above problems seems to be some made up comment by VW haters.

joe....

[Brendan_A]

Buy a diesel, problem solved.

[wai]

The 7 speed DSG. I read in the General section of the recall debacle (In this forum) that you have to drive it like as if you are driving a manual? And that you shouldn't just let go of the brakes to creep up front when in traffic? Is this a true statement? I find this really hard to believe. Or can you drive it like any other automatic cars?
And the 118 TSI.. People are having issues with this particular engines?

I'm asking these questions because from my understanding, I thought that these problems were ok for the cars that were MY12 and beyond.

You have to remember that the DSG is essentially 2 manual gearboxes that operate automatically. When the transmission is in any moving gear, when you take your foot off the foot brake, the clutch starts to engage. You do not have to take your foot right off the brake. There is a pre-set point at which the system is given the signal to start engaging. Essentially, if the vehicle is crawling, then the clutch is engaged or partially engaged. This is no different to riding the clutch in a manual.

This is why you have to "drive it like a manual". Maybe VW need to have an indicator as to the amount of clutch slip, only this would probably freak a lot of owners out.

The issue with the recall is that such prolonged operation will result in the clutch overheating and transferring of this heat to the mechatronics unit which controls the operation of the gearbox. At elevated temperatures, as a result of electrolysis, conductive particles are produced through interaction with the housing, and these particles can settle on the circuit boards in the mechatronics unit which can produce a short circuit and this will blow the fuse. When the fuse blows, both clutches will open.

The recall is replacing the mechatronics unit with one that does not have this issue.

There may be more problems with some engines than others because of torque delivery and therefore engine speed at clutch engagement and associated heat generated. The recall is limited to the 7-speed dry clutch unit. The other transmissions have a wet clutch, and so have an oil cooler.

You have to decide for yourself, just remember that ALL manufacturers have issues requiring recalls. It includes every manufacturer from the most expensive luxury ones through to the cheapies. Just have a scan through the Recalls Australia web site. You will see issues from most manufacturers in the Australian market.

[Joesama]

Wow. Thanks for such a great explaination. Although it seems like the mechatronics are getting replaced, I guess the clutch would still slip if not driven like a manual. At the end of the day, the car was meant for my wife who was going to drop the kids to school and park the car in the train station. This is such a shame cause jetta had every thing we wanted. I thought that DSG was agreat gear box.. but didnt thought that it had to be operated in this kind of way. Perhaps VW should advise their customers about this?

Joe...

[ope126]

Wow. Thanks for such a great explaination. Although it seems like the mechatronics are getting replaced, I guess the clutch would still slip if not driven like a manual. At the end of the day, the car was meant for my wife who was going to drop the kids to school and park the car in the train station. This is such a shame cause jetta had every thing we wanted. I thought that DSG was agreat gear box.. but didnt thought that it had to be operated in this kind of way. Perhaps VW should advise their customers about this?

Joe...

Looks like you will be getting the Kia then!

[wai]

I thought that DSG was agreat gear box.. but didnt thought that it had to be operated in this kind of way. Perhaps VW should advise their customers about this?

The DSG is a "great" gearbox, and is the way things will go. The problem is in the implementation of the technology.

The gear changes are flat so you don't let the turbo spool down and then have to spool up again. It is a direct drive so there is no loss through a torque converter.

VW should let customers know about it, but they are afraid that too many would be scared off.

The issue with the recall is that VW tried to ignore it and hoped it would go away. The issues outlined would have been known through accelerated testing, but incorrect judgements were made as to the likelihood of it happening in service.

The control of the gear shifting and clutch engagement is via software, so this should be able to be programmed to minimise such effects.

Dual clutch gearboxes are not unique to VW. They are used by many manufacturers, including the Japanese ones. But then the Japanes have their fair share of issues. There is the faulty pyros on the passenger air bag that involved quite a large number of vehicles. There is the Mitsubishi where the adaptive cruise control can think tunnel walls are vehicles and apply the brakes. There is Mercedes where the passenger air bag may not deploy properly because of an issue with the dashboard moulding.

So, don't think that buying a Japanese or Korean or Chinese or any other make is going to give you some apparent protection against faults. They ALL suffer from them.

On something a little different, I was watching a UK show and was surprised to see a Honda, Kia, Nissan and Jaguar, all with the indicator on the left hand side of the steering column. These same cars here have them on the right. I wonder how long it will be before all have the indicator on the left.

[ziggyboy]

Dual clutch gearboxes are not unique to VW. They are used by many manufacturers, including the Japanese ones. But then the Japanes have their fair share of issues. There is the faulty pyros on the passenger air bag that involved quite a large number of vehicles. There is the Mitsubishi where the adaptive cruise control can think tunnel walls are vehicles and apply the brakes. There is Mercedes where the passenger air bag may not deploy properly because of an issue with the dashboard moulding.

Yes but I would rather get a car likely to get problems with, say, the cupholder, than a gearbox. All of them have problems, but not all of them have the same problems.


So, don't think that buying a Japanese or Korean or Chinese or any other make is going to give you some apparent protection against faults. They ALL suffer from them.

If I had adaptive cruise control defective, I can just switch it off. Big deal. What are you going to do about an intermittent gearbox problem? Can I just have it swapped for a manual at a dealership?


On something a little different, I was watching a UK show and was surprised to see a Honda, Kia, Nissan and Jaguar, all with the indicator on the left hand side of the steering column. These same cars here have them on the right. I wonder how long it will be before all have the indicator on the left.

As far as I know, the location of the indicator depends on the country that designed the particular model. Many Japanese-built cars have them on the right because Japan is a RHD country. Your left hand is "reserved" for the gear stick while the right is for the indicator. It makes using a manual really easy. It's a little bit annoying having the indicator on the left on a manual in Australia.

Notice that I said "Japanese built car" instead of "Japanese car" because it is possible that those Honda models with the indicator on the left were originally designed in/for a LHD country, and convered for RHD.

[Rawcpoppa]

Ziggy have you had your MU replaced via the recall yet?

[ziggyboy]

Not yet. Got a letter saying they'll contact me again to schedule the recall when parts arrive.

[fillmore]

Not yet. Got a letter saying they'll contact me again to schedule the recall when parts arrive.

Shouldn't be far away. Received mine last Wednesday. Booked in to be done early next month.

[Joesama]

Right. Thanks for all the input guys.
Seems like the fate has been sealed not to get the Jetta.
Cerato is looking to be a good contender. But I think currently Im leaning towards more on i30 Elite. Otherwise, Honda Civic VTi-LN is a good alternative at the moment. Poor VW. It had everything I could have ever wanted in terms of technology. Brought down by the gearbox...

joe...

[ope126]

Right. Thanks for all the input guys.
Seems like the fate has been sealed not to get the Jetta.
Cerato is looking to be a good contender. But I think currently Im leaning towards more on i30 Elite. Otherwise, Honda Civic VTi-LN is a good alternative at the moment. Poor VW. It had everything I could have ever wanted in terms of technology. Brought down by the gearbox...

joe...

Joe, not quite sure the point of your thread mate...
I don't believe that any of those other cars you mentioned are even in the same class.

Enjoy your 5yr / unlimited kilometre warranty.

Good luck on one of the Korean car enthusiast forums.

[MINT_JETTA]

lol hyundai, Kia or VW............ the decision must be a tough one

now where is the slap face icon?

[ziggyboy]

Joe, everyone is entitled to their opinion but as a current Jetta owner I would advise against it right now.

[human traffic]

give me a right hand indicator anyday!


Right. Thanks for all the input guys.
Seems like the fate has been sealed not to get the Jetta.
Cerato is looking to be a good contender. But I think currently Im leaning towards more on i30 Elite. Otherwise, Honda Civic VTi-LN is a good alternative at the moment. Poor VW. It had everything I could have ever wanted in terms of technology. Brought down by the gearbox...

joe...

i had a quick look through the thread and couldnt see the most obvious answer.. if youre so afraid..um... how bout, dont get a dsg model??
so you love everything else but are making the decision on something with an alternative? sounds more like you just wanted an excuse not to get it lol
civics and i30s are a step down in class and car type imo but if youre jsut going to drive it to the train station then thats all youll need. heck, why not just get a great wall chery? itll do that task fine at half the price (y)

[Joesama]

Yeh.. I have tried that actually. Just that this is primary gonna be my wife's car. The restrictive fact is that she cant drive manual cars whereas I can. Yeh.. not looking likely on the chery or something that looks hideous. Let alone, safety packs.

This is the 2nd time I'm actually being wooed away from VW. Last time was around 2009 where we ended up with Nissan Maxima instead. So yeh. I dont think chery will do the work here. And no, I'm not looking for an excuse not to buy a VW. I was hoping for a different answer where me and my wife could have gone... That is one awesome car. Thats the car we want.

joe...

[ziggyboy]

Cars are emotional purchases, so go with what you want. If you end up with issues that you have already been warned about (whichever car you choose), then that is entirely your fault.

If it is primarily your wife's car, then why don't you ask her? My personal opinion is that VW's aren't cars you buy for that sort of thing. It's more of an enthusiast car rather than one of those "set and forget" types. Unless your wife is interested in the intricacies of the DSG or can be bothered "driving it like a manual" then this is a no brainer.

[ziggyboy]

Lastly, the Jetta isn't even really a Golf. This whole class of cars thing is rubbish. "YOU" should judge what class of car it is. If an i30 feels better than a Jetta, then you have your answer. You don't need people to tell you it is a class higher/lower to make yourself feel better in your purchase.

Also be mindful that the Jetta MK6 is not as well built as the Golf. It uses more plastics and cheap material than the equivalent Golf.

[human traffic]

^is that in reference to what i said? if so, youre way off the mark. i said "class" as in classification not as in classy or social standing. nothing to do with personal choice or feelings. class in the way that certain types of cars are grouped together because of things like their similarities, target market and price.
of course anyone can have their little game of make believe and pretend whatever they want, "oh my kia karnival FEELS like a sports car and no one can tell me otherwise!!" lol, or someone could come from a clapped out ka laser and think a chery is a bentley but thats not changing the fact the chery is an entry level "economy" if you go to hire one. its certainly not going to be listed as a luxury sedan.

so when it comes to a real life decision of comparing apples with apples for the purchase of a high price item like a car, you need to use your head more than your emotions (more so when practical things like "must have safety features" "must be auto" "something the missus can drive") and that becomes alot less confusing if you compare cars in a similar class.
a simple "jetta vs" search will show you what everyone else has been looking at and youll see they compare the cars from the same class. having just gone thru the months of research to buy mine, never once did i come across someone asking to compare the i30 or civic to the jetta, golf maybe, but not the jetta. why do you suppose that is? doubt plastics percentage has anything to do with it.

and yes, at the end of the day its the buyers decision, never really said otherwise. youd be a fool if you based your decision solely on what someone on the internet says anyway! lol :icon_veryconfused:

[Joesama]

Yeh. I suppose you are right in a sense that plastic percentage has got anything to do with this whole process. I have no idea how that discussion even came about.
The reason for going Jetta vs i30 and Civic is because they are similar sized car, similar equipment yet the price is quite within close to each other. I must agree that Jetta is on the upper bracket of that price range. But it is within the range. Unfortunately, I understand people do compare Jetta more with Honda Accord Euro or Ford focus. But none of them really interests me. Any how.. really thanks for all the good discussions here. Its been really helpful.

joe....

[Joesama]

Hi guys..
So back again.
We have decided against VW and took a delivery of i30 in Elite last week Tuesday.
I am actually quite impressed with the car. Although the equipment list is some what little short of VW Jetta or the new MK7 Golf, it is a remarkable car either way. The only really main missing features seems to be the auto dimming rear view mirrors, Electric park brake (From MK7 Golf) and the front park sensors. Otherwise, 7" GPS multimedia touch screen is fabulous. Gearbox is pretty smooth as well.

joe....

[Rawcpoppa]

Congrats on your new purchase.

What engine do you get with the i30? Curious to see if it matches up with what we get here. 6 speed automatic? Dual zone air con?

The i30 here costs 90% of the jetta and looked great in pics but I really couldn't bring myself to buy a none boosted small displacement car anymore.


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[ziggyboy]

Hi guys..
So back again.
We have decided against VW and took a delivery of i30 in Elite last week Tuesday.
I am actually quite impressed with the car. Although the equipment list is some what little short of VW Jetta or the new MK7 Golf, it is a remarkable car either way. The only really main missing features seems to be the auto dimming rear view mirrors, Electric park brake (From MK7 Golf) and the front park sensors. Otherwise, 7" GPS multimedia touch screen is fabulous. Gearbox is pretty smooth as well.

joe....

Congrats on your purchase.

I don't know why you would find the i30 Elite to be short on equipment compared to the Jetta. You were looking at the 118TSI Comfortline. There are heaps of features on the i30 that aren't on the 118TSI. And the Golf Mk7's are definitely more expensive. Furthermore the extra features you mention are too trivial, and many people prefer handbrakes to the electric park brake.

[ziggyboy]

Ok going by your "class" explanation, let me quote what you said:


civics and i30s are a step down in class and car type imo but if youre jsut going to drive it to the train station then thats all youll need. heck, why not just get a great wall chery? itll do that task fine at half the price (y)

Why are Civics and i30's a "step down" to the Jetta?

Civics and i30's have been compared to the Golf so they are in the same class. Are you saying the Golf is the class lower than the Jetta?

That's why I didn't understand your meaning of "class". I do believe the Jetta is in the same class of cars (though the sedan version). They're not compared with the i30's because they're hatches. I have seen Jettas compared with larger cars which I think is wrong. It is a compact car. I don't know why someone would compare a Camry to a Jetta and not a Passat.

Regardless of whatever "class" meant, my comment on the Jetta's quality still stands. Among their passenger vehicle range it is only second to the Up in worst build quality. Before the Up came along it had the worst build. Even the Polo is better built. Yes, plastics has something to do with it because they are cheaper to manufacture. Even the MK5 Jetta had more "soft" material in the car (though it was also noticeably more expensive). This is no secret.

[Rawcpoppa]

Ziggy why on Earth did you buy a Jetta if it is second in quality to practically everything else in the market according to you? I understand you're upset about the mechatronic issues but now you make it seem like the entire car is rubbish when it isn't.

People throw around this level of plastics like it is truth. You make it seem like we got the American jetta with extra hard surfaces when this is clearly not the case. The mark 5 jetta had like one extra soft surface on the door. One.

What would you change about this shot?

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/08/5uqemuqu-1.jpg


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[Joesama]

Hmm...
There is no doubt about it that Jetta and MK7 Golf Interior is very nice.
That's what got me very attracted in the first place. Whats there not to like about the picture above?
Infact I think its very nice.

In regards to i30, Ive got the 1.8l Petrol version. Not a bad engine. Also, the 6 speed auto gearbox is very smooth.
I cant compare the power of the car to the 118TSI or 90TSI as its got a very good torque in the first place.
i30 Torque is below 200Nm. I think it was 178 or something. So it is definitely a slower machine. But it drives very well.
One thing though.. Seems like the car wants to rev up quick at the start. I think its something to do with trying to get into that best power bend.

joe....

[Rawcpoppa]

Thanks for the info. Do you mean quick to rev high on startup when the car is "cold"?


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[muli]

Right. Thanks for all the input guys.
Seems like the fate has been sealed not to get the Jetta.
Cerato is looking to be a good contender. But I think currently Im leaning towards more on i30 Elite. Otherwise, Honda Civic VTi-LN is a good alternative at the moment. Poor VW. It had everything I could have ever wanted in terms of technology. Brought down by the gearbox...

joe...

Did you test drive all the cars?

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[Joesama]

No.. It seems to do that all the time even if the engine is cold.

Yes.. I did all the test drives. It was exhausting in the end.

joe...

[ziggyboy]

Ziggy why on Earth did you buy a Jetta if it is second in quality to practically everything else in the market according to you? I understand you're upset about the mechatronic issues but now you make it seem like the entire car is rubbish when it isn't.

People throw around this level of plastics like it is truth. You make it seem like we got the American jetta with extra hard surfaces when this is clearly not the case. The mark 5 jetta had like one extra soft surface on the door. One.

What would you change about this shot?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you're misunderstanding what I said. Re-read my post.

I didn't say it has the worst build quality around. I said it had the worst build quality among the VW range next to the Up. Are you saying that the Jetta has EQUAL build quality to a Golf or Passat? We're not talking reliability, we're talking quality of interior parts. The Jetta is cheaper to make than the Passat and Golf. Like I said, it is no secret. There is a reason why it's cheaper, not because VW just decided so, but because they use slightly cheaper parts than the cars I have mentioned.

When I bought the car I knew I wasn't buying a Passat or Golf. What is wrong with that?

I think the MK6 Jetta has better interior quality than an i30 or previous model Civic, but I don't think it has better interiors than the Golf or Passat. And with regards to your pic, I agree the front looks good. What I am a bit so-so about are the doors. The panels feel flimsy to me.

[Rawcpoppa]

I think you're misunderstanding what I said. Re-read my post.

I didn't say it has the worst build quality around. I said it had the worst build quality among the VW range next to the Up. Are you saying that the Jetta has EQUAL build quality to a Golf or Passat? We're not talking reliability, we're talking quality of interior parts. The Jetta is cheaper to make than the Passat and Golf. Like I said, it is no secret. There is a reason why it's cheaper, not because VW just decided so, but because they use slightly cheaper parts than the cars I have mentioned.

When I bought the car I knew I wasn't buying a Passat or Golf. What is wrong with that?

I think the MK6 Jetta has better interior quality than an i30 or previous model Civic, but I don't think it has better interiors than the Golf or Passat. And with regards to your pic, I agree the front looks good. What I am a bit so-so about are the doors. The panels feel flimsy to me.

Fair enough, you say that it is the worst in the VW range second only to the Up.

I still disagree with that due to the fact that the mk6 Jetta and the mk6 Golf share the exact same interior. Of course a Jetta is cheaper to build than a Passat due to it being a smaller car for one. Two the Passat actually has a different interior to the mk6 Golf and Jetta. Dare I say the Jetta is not cheaper to make than the mk6 Golf (Not talking about the american Jetta here but the euro ones sold worldwide). The Golf is priced higher in Australia due to the fact that the Golf is in higher demand than the Jetta as evidenced by sales data and also the limited traffic in this section of the forum when compared to the mk6 Golf section.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/08/3golfinterior-1.jpg

http://cars.volkswagen-inchcape.co.uk/vehicles/w800_h533_VO60ZXD_6.jpg

Both of the images above are from golf mk6 interiors. The 2nd pic is exactly how my interior is made up save for a different cup holder in the Golf vs my Jetta and the fact that the Golf is a manual. The door trim and design is the same.

I will admit the GTI or Golf R have nicer interiors but to say the mk6 Jetta interior is lower to that than an equal spec mk6 Golf is wrong in my opinion.

By your own admission you say you believe that the mk6 Jetta has better interiors than the i30 and civic and I think that is what the other posters were saying in terms of "classes" apart from the differences between hatches and sedans. I'm sure they also meant the mk6 Golf was in a different class to the i30 and civic. Even more so with the mk7 golf.

[ziggyboy]

My take on build quality is that it is half actual components and half "general feel".

I felt the Jetta had a better build feel than the i30 and Civic I sat on, but it is not like I did a part for part audit on which ones are plastic, which are soft, and which components are more brittle. I did not audit individual interior parts when I sat on cars, I just sat on them, test driven them, and fiddled with the various things inside. I think you know what I'm talking about. Photos do not mean much, even looking at an interior from the outside. Looking great is different to what it feels like while you're in it.

I wasn't alone in my assessment of the Jetta's interior versus the Golf. I had a few of my friends agree with me that the Golf seem to be better built then the Jetta.

I chose the Jetta because I preferred a sedan, and dealers are much more willing to discount prices on the Jetta than the Golf. The Golf is already more expensive than the equivalent specced Jetta, but dealers are willing to give bigger discounts on the Jetta. This means that the gap between the Jetta's and Golf's driveaway prices was too big to ignore. That said, I think it was better value than the Golf because it was newer (than the MK6 then) yet pound for pound it was cheaper.

[Rawcpoppa]

Point noted on the "feel" but I'd really be surprised if the price tag didn't influence this "feel".

Take a look in the Golf forums as well. They are afflicted with the exact same issues as Jetta owners in terms of creaking and sounds interior wise. The pictures were to show that the interiors are the same. Not saying I expect anyone to go through ETKA and see if the part numbers match but really it goes a long way to show how close the cars really are.

[Mountainman]

and many people prefer handbrakes to the electric park brake.

Well here's one that doesn't. I will never have to touch the park brake again in my mk7 Golf. It comes on and releases automatically every time and I leave the auto hill holder function on all the time too. What I do now have to watch is that I don't try to drive away in our Forester with the handbrake on. I can't see what's not to like about it other than the seat belt must be on and the doors closed to move the car. Big deal. The convenience of never having to think about the park brake far outweighs that.