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View Full Version : What oil are VW dealers putting in your TDI engine?



Bob51
08-01-2013, 04:32 PM
On my last (45k) service by a VW dealer the invoice listed the oil used in my 2010 103kw TDI was 'problend 10w30'. An internet search shows Pro-blend to be a range of oils made by Valvoline and supplied to the trade. As its name implies it is a blend of mineral and synthetic oils. Valvoline does not claim the oil is approved to any VW standards such as 507 which VW insist should be used in the latest Euro5 engines. Maybe Pro-blend does meet the standard but is just not certified.

I drained the oil and replaced it with Penrite Enviro+ 5w30 not wanting to take the risk of running the next 15K on the wrong oil.

Begs the question how many VW dealers use oils which are not 507 approved. Have other Forum members similar experiences?

Diesel_vert
09-01-2013, 06:57 PM
For the Octavia:

PD engines (without a DPF) requires 505.01, 506.01 or 507.00

PD engines (with a DPF) and CR diesel engines (with or without a DPF) require 507.00


On my last (45k) service by a VW dealer the invoice listed the oil used in my 2010 103kw TDI was 'problend 10w30'. An internet search shows Pro-blend to be a range of oils made by Valvoline and supplied to the trade. As its name implies it is a blend of mineral and synthetic oils. Valvoline does not claim the oil is approved to any VW standards such as 507 which VW insist should be used in the latest Euro5 engines. Maybe Pro-blend does meet the standard but is just not certified.

I drained the oil and replaced it with Penrite Enviro+ 5w30 not wanting to take the risk of running the next 15K on the wrong oil.

Begs the question how many VW dealers use oils which are not 507 approved. Have other Forum members similar experiences?

What were they thinking? :n:

No lubricant with a SAE grade of 10W-30 has been (recently) approved for either 505.01, 506.01 or 507.00 (and it's not on the approved oil list) so it's almost certain that the dealer has used the wrong oil.

Using an unsuitable oil in a modern European turbocharged DI petrol/diesel engine runs the risk of premature engine damage.

In addition, using an unsuitable oil in a PD engine runs the risk of prematurely wearing the camshaft and related components, due to the nature of its design.

Further, using an unsuitable oil in a vehicle equipped with a DPF runs the risk of premature clogging, which may lead to poor engine performance.

Sorry to hear that you had to fix the dealer's mistake on your own time and money.

Umai Naa!!
11-01-2013, 08:03 AM
Before we go any further, it wouldn't too unreasonable to suggest that it may have been a clerical error when costing the bill. A lot of dealer management software have auto-generating terms and phrases that appear on the invoice, based on codes that have been input.

It may have been the case of someone pressing the wrong buttons, resulting you being charged for oil that was probably half the price.

The thing is, the dealership is unlikely to admit any wrong-doing and will insist that they've used the correct oil regardless. Sorry to hear that you've gone to the extent that you have, to regain peace of mind.

At the VW dealership I worked at, the coding for the Castrol 5W-30 504/507 we were using, came up on the invoice with 'TDI' in the phrasing. A few switched-on customers with petrol-engined VWs pointed it out, but once they were informed that it was the same oil, and that it was correct for the car, they were ok with it.

Diesel_vert
11-01-2013, 11:21 AM
That's certainly possible, though it's harder to believe a dealer would incorrectly charge less than the usual price.

It's fairer to give the benefit of the doubt, but this time I just decided to assume the worst, lol.

gldgti
11-01-2013, 12:53 PM
The thing is - how many services does a VW dealer carry out nowdays where the oil to be used is not 505-507? Maybe a few odd T4 petrols, and mk4 golfs, but surely not much else.

Considering that not only the TDI but TSI and FSI engines all require pretty fancy oil, its hard to give the benfit of the doubt in this case. (Not that I'm for starting a lynch mob, quite the opposite.)

If the OP goes there for the next service, I would be interesting to see if the invoice says the same thing again.

Umai Naa!!
11-01-2013, 03:08 PM
Late T4s and early T5s used 506, as well as early R5 and V10 Touaregs.

Most places I've dealt with, use run-of-the-mill 10W30 in passenger vehicle VWs prior to 2005. (1J Golf/Bora, 9C/1C Beetle, 3B Passat, etc).

The problem with 506 is the price of it. It's nearly double most 504/507 oils at retail price. Cheapest I found was around $140 trade price for 5L. Try putting that one over a customer with an early V10 Touareg that takes around 12L. Very hard to convince them that it's justified when Average Joe Mechanical has been putting the cheaper 504/507 in.

gldgti
11-01-2013, 03:44 PM
Late T4s and early T5s used 506, as well as early R5 and V10 Touaregs.

Most places I've dealt with, use run-of-the-mill 10W30 in passenger vehicle VWs prior to 2005. (1J Golf/Bora, 9C/1C Beetle, 3B Passat, etc).

The problem with 506 is the price of it. It's nearly double most 504/507 oils at retail price. Cheapest I found was around $140 trade price for 5L. Try putting that one over a customer with an early V10 Touareg that takes around 12L. Very hard to convince them that it's justified when Average Joe Mechanical has been putting the cheaper 504/507 in.

I know what you mean but I reckon a V10 Toureg owner isnt too likely to mind what it costs :-) (or perhaps they REALLY are?)

All I'm getting at is that given the oil the dealer is likely to need to keep a good stock of, if they arent supplying the correct oil for Mr Smiths golf TDI, then it seems like they are probably supplying the wrong oil for every TDI and TSI that comes in for the service (as the OP kind of thought might have happened).

If using oil made by valvoline isnt cost-cutting, I dont know what is ;-). A very good mechanic I used to know used to say something like "Use any oil you want that meets the specification, except Valvoline." :-D

Transporter
11-01-2013, 03:50 PM
....it's actually 506.01 not 506
that's where the mistakes happen as well, since many just overlook the 01. :)

I think many TDI engines worldwide were ruined by wrong oil used, incl. not approved oils falsly claiming to meet VW506.01.

Diesel_vert
11-01-2013, 03:59 PM
This place could be a multi-franchise dealership, with a contract with Valvoline (maybe?).

But that shouldn't matter, since Valvoline has an approved 504/507 oil (SynPower XL-III 5W-30) so they have no excuse.

Assuming he used the same workshop, I wonder what was printed on his previous invoices, for the 15k & 30k service. Does it list the same type of oil?

Umai Naa!!
11-01-2013, 04:50 PM
....it's actually 506.01 not 506
that's where the mistakes happen as well, since many just overlook the 01. :)

I think many TDI engines worldwide were ruined by wrong oil used, incl. not approved oils falsly claiming to meet VW506.01.

Yes, the one I priced up was in fact 506.01 approved. Quite a few are approved both 506 and 506.01 now.

Bob51
11-01-2013, 08:12 PM
This place could be a multi-franchise dealership, with a contract with Valvoline (maybe?).

But that shouldn't matter, since Valvoline has an approved 504/507 oil (SynPower XL-III 5W-30) so they have no excuse.

Assuming he used the same workshop, I wonder what was printed on his previous invoices, for the 15k & 30k service. Does it list the same type of oil?

The dealer concerned was interstate when I was traveling -I have not used them before or since. The invoices from other dealers for the 15 and 30k services do not specify the oil used. I hope my experience with the 45k service is a one-off.

njg02
14-03-2013, 03:17 PM
I've just been trying to understand VW 'Long Life Servicing'. From what I can make out, if your car is coded for the normal 15k service, then I read that you can almost use whatever oil you want. IF, your car is coded for "Long Life Servicing" then you have to use the correct spec VW oil, and you can go up to 50,000km between changes. This would make me happy because I'm doing over 50k/yr. I just have to have my car recoded. Although, my R5 has QG1 on the data plaque for the car but it still pops up every 15k for a service. Must check the polo and do an oil change each year instead of 4/yr. Google Self Study Pragramme 224.

Umai Naa!!
14-03-2013, 04:29 PM
Incorrect.

For Australia, VW specifies 504/507 in everything from mid-2006 onwards. We don't have Long Life servicing here either, regardless of how the car is coded. All services are 15,000klms except for Crafter.

njg02
14-03-2013, 04:55 PM
But, we aren't so different to the rest of the world. So what you're saying is that the long life stuff is a phurphy. In the literature they talk about economy etc and the long life stuff is just that. Why should I waste oil if I don't have to? I do the miles to qualify for long life if I use the correct oil. I reckon VW is taking everyone in Aus for a ride.
I might see if I can get the car recoded and see how I go.
Google Self Study Programme 224.

Umai Naa!!
14-03-2013, 05:46 PM
But, we aren't so different to the rest of the world. So what you're saying is that the long life stuff is a phurphy. In the literature they talk about economy etc and the long life stuff is just that. Why should I waste oil if I don't have to? I do the miles to qualify for long life if I use the correct oil. I reckon VW is taking everyone in Aus for a ride.
I might see if I can get the car recoded and see how I go.
Google Self Study Programme 224.

One of the main reasons they specify 504/507 LL3 oil is to cover themselves should an engine go bang due to our typically poor maintenance habbits, and we blame them for an engine that can't miss a service or two without destroying itself.

VW isn't taking everyone for a ride, when you can buy the 504/507-spec oil elsewhere, and usually cheaper.

Ozram
14-03-2013, 07:42 PM
But, we aren't so different to the rest of the world. So what you're saying is that the long life stuff is a phurphy. In the literature they talk about economy etc and the long life stuff is just that. Why should I waste oil if I don't have to? I do the miles to qualify for long life if I use the correct oil. I reckon VW is taking everyone in Aus for a ride.
I might see if I can get the car recoded and see how I go.
Google Self Study Programme 224.

Oil is cheap insurance. A new filter is $30. I've seen many engines that have had an 'economy' of servicing. They ain't pretty. Sludge like you wouldn't believe. When we changed the turbo on a Mazda CX-5 recently we had to drop the sump to clean the strainer on the oil pick and 1 inch of crap on the bottom of the pan. We also had to flush all of the oil galleries 3 times.

I'm about to do my 3rd oil change at 22,500km.

It's your car man. How long will your engine last if it looks like this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx3QZPAHkjo

Transporter
14-03-2013, 08:03 PM
But, we aren't so different to the rest of the world. So what you're saying is that the long life stuff is a phurphy. In the literature they talk about economy etc and the long life stuff is just that. Why should I waste oil if I don't have to? I do the miles to qualify for long life if I use the correct oil. I reckon VW is taking everyone in Aus for a ride.
I might see if I can get the car recoded and see how I go.
Google Self Study Programme 224.

If your 05 Touareg is TDI then you have to use VW506.01 otherwise you will regret that you'd ever used anything else in it. Your Polo TDI needs 507.00 oil and I'd stick with the VW recomendation as well.

Diesel_vert
14-03-2013, 09:05 PM
Technical developments in engine and lubricant technology, combined with changes in fuel standards, allow the oil change interval (OCI) to be extended under certain conditions - a concept utilised and taken advantage of by commercial and heavy industries for years.

Volkswagen's LongLife servicing regime allows ordinary consumers, particularly those who drive under ideal conditions (in Europe), to benefit from potential financial, environmental and time savings from extended OCIs - without the need to carry out a used oil analysis (UOA).



The maximum service interval in the LongLife regime is not a fixed or prescribed interval, but merely the maximum interval allowed, which is only attainable in absolutely ideal conditions.

Depending on how the vehicle is driven and the conditions it's driven in, the (variable) service interval may be significantly less than the maximum interval, but that is for the onboard computer to determine.

Do not assume the computer will let you service the car at the maximum interval.

Do note that the maximum interval differs from model to model. For instance, the maximum interval for your '05 Touareg (R5 TDI, no DPF, using 506.01 oil) and your '11 Polo (CR TDI, w/DPF, using 507.00 oil) on the LongLife regime is 30 000 km/2 years.

Only some of the earliest models (from 1999 or 2000 onwards) on the LongLife regime had 50 000 km/2 year maximum intervals (only SDI & TDI engines using 506.01 oil) but this was scaled back to 30 000 km/2 years for most subsequent passenger vehicles.



Considering that 89% of the Australian population live in urban areas, a fixed 15 000 km/1 year service interval is a reasonable compromise (for most people that is - sorry njg02, you are clearly the exception!).

Should you decide to recode it for LongLife servicing, it would be interesting to see what kind of service intervals would be shown, given your annual mileage of 50 000 km.

Transporter
14-03-2013, 10:46 PM
I've switched to LL servicing in my T5 (128kW) and my service reminder came on in much less than 6,000km :icon_yikes:

I do a lot of short trips though.

njg02
17-03-2013, 09:04 AM
I drive just on 1000km /wk in the polo. I'll get in touch with VWAUS and see what they say. I will put to them their own (VWGER) benefits and the regime that my car is run under. I reckon I'm a good candidate. The R5? No, I don't think so.
Thanks for your interest and I'll try and let you know how I go.

Hillbilly
17-03-2013, 09:20 AM
SUPERCHEAP are selling Penrite ENVIRO+ 5w -30 which is 504/507 VW approved at $69.95 ATM

volksMuller
17-03-2013, 02:28 PM
If you are not sure .....VW approved comes with the approval letter from the factory...I have copies for the Luiqi moly oils we use for every model...play safe with oils as already said it can and will damage your engine if you use the incorrect oil...OIL"S AINT OIL"S

Hillbilly
17-03-2013, 05:57 PM
If you are not sure .....VW approved comes with the approval letter from the factory...I have copies for the Luiqi moly oils we use for every model...play safe with oils as already said it can and will damage your engine if you use the incorrect oil...OIL"S AINT OIL"S

Penrite Enviro+ is on the approved list on ERWIN On second page after Pennzoil Have had it used on my Polo by trusted Sponsor
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/03/step_50400_50700_Page_1_zps1b0d60a7-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/03/step_50400_50700_Page_2_zpsf94be411-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/03/step_50400_50700_Page_3_zps2e3f8ecb-1.jpg


Is this the same as yours

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/03/step_l_zps9720d5b8-1.jpg

volksMuller
18-03-2013, 08:06 AM
Great info......love the name of some those oil companies.....I'll have 4 litres of Yacco please

Hillbilly
18-03-2013, 08:12 AM
Great info......love the name of some those oil companies.....I'll have 4 litres of Yacco please

That will be $9.95a litre plus $109.95 postage thanks ROFL

Does the Liqui Moly list match yours is why I posted it

Umai Naa!!
18-03-2013, 10:27 AM
TopTec 4200 is what Liqui-Moly Australia stock, to cover 504/507.

About to take the plunge on a bulk order of it myself, once the last of my Castrol stock has cleared.

njg02
12-05-2013, 08:14 PM
So. I went to my local VW to get the service interval changed to Long Life on my 2011 Polo TDi. ie let the car decide when it needs doing because of the amount of km's I'm doing.
The sevice guy couldn't do it because the software was locked.
Neil

Hillbilly
12-05-2013, 08:23 PM
So. I went to my local VW to get the service interval changed to Long Life on my 2011 Polo TDi. ie let the car decide when it needs doing because of the amount of km's I'm doing.
The sevice guy couldn't do it because the software was locked.
Neil

Thats because Aussie cars are serviced on time or mileage Like 15000k or 1 year whichever comes first.

Longlife is not practiced here.

njg02
12-05-2013, 08:56 PM
Says on the print in the boot that it is suitable and the service guy was keen, as I was, but no go.
I think that you are right though. I haven't heard of anyone who has done it, except for Transporter who was driving around the city and his car told him to get it serviced after about 6oookm or so. What I don't understand though is we all use the correct oil for long life servicing, but don't actually practice LLS. I get every service when due, which is roughly every 15weeks.

kaanage
12-05-2013, 09:21 PM
The receipt from the recent service of our TDi says 5W/40, just like it did last year :confused:

Hillbilly
12-05-2013, 09:41 PM
The receipt from the recent service of our TDi says 5W/40, just like it did last year :confused:


Hope they didnt use it or maybe the muppet that did the receipt couldnt find the correct one in the computer.

The price would give an indication 5w 40 is about $15 less than the correct oil which cost me $83 for 5 L off a stealer According to the list all 504-507 is 5W 30 Also it is the correct oil for a engine with a DPF

kaanage
12-05-2013, 10:50 PM
I went and queried them last year after seeing the receipt (I didn't pick up the car either time) and they told me they hadn't updated their computer to the 'new' oil spec. see my posts in this thread - http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f77/dealer-used-havoline-5w-40-12month-service-2-0-tsi-56847-2.html#post652131. It's actually 3 years running they've done this.

The recent receipt says Helix Ultra 5W-40 for $61.04 (exGST) but no quantity is listed - looks like I need to pursue it with them again :facepalm:

Diesel_vert
13-05-2013, 01:16 AM
Says on the print in the boot that it is suitable and the service guy was keen, as I was, but no go.

Bah! VW are such spoilsports for locking the option!

Pity, as I certainly think it would have made for an interesting experiment.



I went and queried them last year after seeing the receipt (I didn't pick up the car either time) and they told me they hadn't updated their computer to the 'new' oil spec. see my posts in this thread - http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f77/dealer-used-havoline-5w-40-12month-service-2-0-tsi-56847-2.html#post652131.

PD TDI or CR TDI engines without DPF require 505.01 (fixed service intervals) or 506.01 (variable service intervals). 507.00 is also acceptable (irrespective of service regime), though not compulsory.

Any TDI engine with a DPF requires 507.00

The oil's viscosity grade isn't that crucial - it's the oil standard that needs to be paid attention to.



The recent receipt says Helix Ultra 5W-40 for $61.04 (exGST) but no quantity is listed

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 has 502.00/505.00 approval - therefore, it is not suitable for any PD TDI or CR TDI engine.

505.00 can only be used for TDI engines without PD (Pumpe Düse, or unit-injection in English) or CR (common-rail).



It's actually 3 years running they've done this... looks like I need to pursue it with them again :facepalm:

Unless you have reasons not to, I would strongly consider taking your elsewhere for future services.

Hillbilly
13-05-2013, 08:13 AM
I went and queried them last year after seeing the receipt (I didn't pick up the car either time) and they told me they hadn't updated their computer to the 'new' oil spec. see my posts in this thread - http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f77/dealer-used-havoline-5w-40-12month-service-2-0-tsi-56847-2.html#post652131. It's actually 3 years running they've done this.

The recent receipt says Helix Ultra 5W-40 for $61.04 (exGST) but no quantity is listed - looks like I need to pursue it with them again :facepalm:

Shell Helix Ultra EXTRA 5W 30 is the correct oil for a DPF engine NOT Helix Ultra which is a 502-505 for NON DPF engines

Diesel_vert
13-05-2013, 11:09 AM
Shell Helix Ultra EXTRA 5W 30 is the correct oil for a DPF engine NOT Helix Ultra which is a 502-505 for NON DPF engines

It's not quite as simple as that.

PD TDI and CR TDI engines without a DPF require 505.01 or 506.01

505.00 is not acceptable for these engines.


Note that 507.00 can be used where 505.00, 505.01 or 506.01 is specified (with some exceptions).

Hillbilly
13-05-2013, 11:14 AM
It's not quite as simple as that.

PD TDI and CR TDI engines without a DPF require 505.01 or 506.01

. Most wouldnt know these engines as they are only in Touaregs and in certain years arent they.
Perhaps we should state the models that each come in for those who dont know

I am trying not to over complicate things as most are referring to Golfs Polos or Passats or the Skoda variants as there are hardly any Touareg owners on here with minor exceptions.

Transporter
13-05-2013, 11:42 AM
To make it simple stick with the 504.00/507.00 in everything made after 2000 where only exemption is V10 TDI Touareg and R5 TDI as found in the Touareg and T5 up to 6/2006, because after 6/2006 they had DPF fited and again must use 507.00

Diesel_vert
13-05-2013, 12:00 PM
Most wouldnt know these engines as they are only in Touaregs and in certain years arent they.
Perhaps we should state the models that each come in for those who dont know

I am trying not to over complicate things as most are referring to Golfs Polos or Passats or the Skoda variants as there are hardly any Touareg owners on here with minor exceptions.

The Polo 9N (2005-2009), Golf Mk5 (2004-2009), Jetta (2006-2009) and Passat B4 (2006-2009/10) ranges were fitted with PD TDI engines, of which the vast majority were not fitted with with a DPF. Same deal with Skoda.

From 2008/2009 onwards saw the gradual changeover to CR TDI engines, of which the vast majority of were fitted with a DPF.



To make it simple stick with the 504.00/507.00 in everything made after 2000 where only exemption is V10 TDI Touareg and R5 TDI as found in the Touareg and T5 up to 6/2006, because after 6/2006 they had DPF fited and again must use 507.00

I think 504.00/507.00 is not strictly necessary in any engine that doesn't have direct-injection.




EDIT: It's VW's fault for making it so bloody stupid and complicated - don't blame me, I'm just the messenger!

Hillbilly
13-05-2013, 12:06 PM
The Polo 9N (2005-2009), Golf Mk5 (2004-2009), Jetta (2006-2009) and Passat B4 (2006-2009/10) ranges were fitted with PD TDI engines, of which the vast majority were not fitted with with a DPF. Same deal with Skoda.

From 2008/2009 onwards saw the gradual changeover to CR TDI engines, of which the vast majority of were fitted with a DPF.




I think 504.00/507.00 is not strictly necessary in any engine that doesn't have direct-injection.

We could argue forever about this but Transporters post simplifies it so that most would understand.

Basically it doesnt hurt to use the 504-507 oil in any TDI engine except those he mentions.

This makes it nice and simple without going into years and models (which change midyear as well)

Far better to use a top spec Approved oil than think what you maybe can use and do it wrong.

Diesel_vert
13-05-2013, 12:22 PM
You said that 505.00 is for engines without a DPF, but that is not strictly correct.

PD TDI and CR TDI engines without a DPF should be using 505.01 or 506.01 or 507.00



And then you said PD TDI engines are mostly relevant for Touareg owners, but that is also not strictly correct.

Many Polo, Golf, Jetta, Passat and Skoda owners (as well as many other models) would be very familiar with the PD TDI engine, most of which were not fitted with a DPF.

These owners should not be using 505.00 in their cars just because they're not fitted with a DPF.

joel0407
13-05-2013, 12:23 PM
We could argue forever about this but Transporters post simplifies it so that most would understand.

Basically it doesnt hurt to use the 504-507 oil in any TDI engine except those he mentions.

This makes it nice and simple without going into years and models (which change midyear as well)

Far better to use a top spec Approved oil than think what you maybe can use and do it wrong.

I sort of agree and disagree with this. It's simple but I dont think the 507 oil is higher spec. It's different spec.

I'm far from an expert on this but I know that DPF spec oil is low or no sulfer oil. Sulfer is a lubricant that is either compensated for with other addatives to the oil or by using engine construction (materials or design) that needs less or differnt lubrication.

A few years ago, a higher spec oil meant better oil. These days it might not be better for the motor but better for the enviroment.

Oils ain't Oils.

Happy Days.

Hillbilly
13-05-2013, 12:30 PM
You said that 505.00 is for engines without a DPF, but that is not strictly correct.

PD TDI and CR TDI engines without a DPF should be using 505.01 or 506.01 or 507.00



And then you said PD TDI engines are mostly relevant for Touareg owners, but that is also not strictly correct.

Many Polo, Golf, Jetta, Passat and Skoda owners (as well as many other models) would be very familiar with the PD TDI engine, most of which were not fitted with a DPF.

These owners should not be using 505.00 in their cars just because they're not fitted with a DPF.

Sometimes I wish my keyboard was broken

Transporter
13-05-2013, 12:39 PM
I sort of agree and disagree with this. It's simple but I dont think the 507 oil is higher spec. It's different spec.I'm far from an expert on this but I know that DPF spec oil is low or no sulfer oil. Sulfer is a lubricant that is either compensated for with other addatives to the oil or by using engine construction (materials or design) that needs less or differnt lubrication.

A few years ago, a higher spec oil meant better oil. These days it might not be better for the motor but better for the enviroment.

Oils ain't Oils.

Happy Days.

At some point you have to trust to the engine manufacturer. So, when they specify that oil and preffer it, than it's the ideal oil for that engine and trying to use something else could cause the troubles.
The most failed early PD TDI engines are probably in the US, simply becouse they like to always use something else than what the manufacturer specify - many paid a lot more than what they've saved when their engine's valve train was wornout.

Also the emission devices fitted to the engine could have a shorter life with the alternative oils.

Diesel_vert
13-05-2013, 12:54 PM
I sort of agree and disagree with this. It's simple but I dont think the 507 oil is higher spec. It's different spec.

I'm far from an expert on this but I know that DPF spec oil is low or no sulfer oil. Sulfer is a lubricant that is either compensated for with other addatives to the oil or by using engine construction (materials or design) that needs less or differnt lubrication.

A few years ago, a higher spec oil meant better oil. These days it might not be better for the motor but better for the enviroment.

Oils ain't Oils.

Happy Days.

504.00/507.00 is indeed a reduced-SAPS lubricant, SAPS being an acronym for Sulphated Ash, Phosphorous & Sulphur, and places limits these. But it is not an ash-free oil.

In terms of fuel, sulphur is an impurity and is not a lubricant per se. Rather, it's the refining process (the removal of sulphur from fuel) that reduces its lubricity, though this is restored with additives at the refinery. However, I'm not sure if this correlates with engine lubricants - I don't think it's much of an issue with synthetic oils.

With significant reductions in sulphur levels in diesel fuel, lubricants no longer need such a high TBN to combat (sulphuric) acid formation as they once did. Having said that, I would not use a reduced-SAPS lubricant unless I had the blessing of the vehicle or engine manufacturer.



Sometimes I wish my keyboard was broken

I'm calling you out on some of the information you've provided, which is incorrect and inaccurate. Nothing personal.

kaanage
13-05-2013, 03:43 PM
maybe the muppet that did the receipt couldnt find the correct one in the computer.


I went and queried them last year after seeing the receipt (I didn't pick up the car either time) and they told me they hadn't updated their computer to the 'new' oil spec. It's actually 3 years running they've done this.

The recent receipt says Helix Ultra 5W-40 for $61.04 (exGST) but no quantity is listed - looks like I need to pursue it with them again :facepalm:

Turns out they put in the wrong code on the receipt (yet again) - the guy I spoke to said that as soon as I asked about the oil used for the service.


Unless you have reasons not to, I would strongly consider taking your elsewhere for future services.

We would but I bought one of those dealer extended warranties back when I didn't know what I was doing (ie before I got on to this forum :facepalm:)

Hillbilly
13-05-2013, 04:20 PM
Turns out they put in the wrong code on the receipt (yet again) - the guy I spoke to said that as soon as I asked about the oil used for the service.

We would but I bought one of those dealer extended warranties back when I didn't know what I was doing (ie before I got on to this forum :facepalm:)

Well the thing to do is buy your own oil and get them to use it and nothing else You can buy Penrite Enviro+ 5W -30 VW 504-507 APPROVED oil at Supercrap for about $78 which is still cheaper than the Castrol that Dealers sell for that grade.

kaanage
13-05-2013, 05:29 PM
I did vow to do that after the last instance but forgot in the aftermath of my crash :(

Paul_OH
14-07-2013, 01:21 AM
I received the below in response to my query why Mobil Super S 10w-40 was on my invoice. It was mentioned earlier in the thread that it could have been a clerical error but it appears not to be:

Apologise for the late reply. In regards to the engine oil we used for service, we have always been using mobile 10w40 and this is with approval from Volkswagen Australia. We only use 5w30 engine oil for diesel engines. The reason we didn’t use 5w30 engine oil for petrol engines is due to the thin oil always cause the vehicle to use more oil and inconvenience customers to top up their oil between services.

If you prefer 5w30 engine oil to be used on your vehicle we can do it on the next service but normally we don’t normally recommend using such thin oil until your car is reach 25000km.

Looks like policy to me.....

Diesel_vert
14-07-2013, 07:13 AM
In regards to the engine oil we used for service, we have always been using mobile 10w40 and this is with approval from Volkswagen Australia.

For Golf Mk5 with petrol engines:

Non-turbocharged 4 & 5-cylinder engines built before 2008 require a lubricant that is of VW 501.01 standard or better.

Everything else (4-cylinder TSI & TFSI engines, VR6 engines, non-turbo 4 & 5-cylinder petrol engines built after 2008 ) requires a lubricant that is of VW 502.00 standard or better.

VW 502.00 is a more stringent oil standard than VW 501.01 and is designed for harsher operating conditions.

...

Approved VW 501.01 oils with a viscosity grade of 10W-40 are available from many brands, including Mobil.

Approved VW 502.00 oils with a viscosity grade of 10W-40 are available from a few brands, such as Caltex Havoline Synthetic Blend 10W-40, Motul 6100 Synergie+ 10W-40 or Shell Helix HX7 10W-40, but none from Mobil at this point in time.

Approved VW 502.00 oils with a viscosity grade of 5W-40, 0W-40 or 5W-30 are more common.

Therefore, using any Mobil 10W-40 passenger car lubricant (which if approved by VW, will be a 501.01 oil) in a TSI engine is contrary to VW requirements, which may have implications for any future warranty claims related to the engine.

...

And for completeness sake, Golf Mk5 with diesel engines:

TDI engines without a DPF require a lubricant that is of VW 505.01 standard or better (VW 505.00 is not acceptable).

TDI engines with a DPF require a lubricant that is of VW 507.00 standard or better.



Looks like policy to me.....

It would appear that the workshop in question does not fully understand or comprehend VW engine oil requirements, as demonstrated by the use of a 501.01 oil in an engine where a 502.00 or 504.00 oil is required.

Paul_OH
14-07-2013, 11:47 AM
It would appear that the workshop in question does not fully understand or comprehend VW engine oil requirements, as demonstrated by the use of a 501.01 oil in an engine where a 502.00 or 504.00 oil is required.

That is indeed the case, what I failed to mention is that this email was received from a VW Dealer in Perth.

Diesel_vert
14-07-2013, 02:43 PM
That is indeed the case, what I failed to mention is that this email was received from a VW Dealer in Perth.

Simply inexcusable for any dealer, irrespective of marque, to use the wrong oil.

All well and good to have factory trained technicians, factory specified guidelines, factory documentation and whatnot, but if it doesn't translate into a service as the manufacturer intended and as the customer expects, what's the point of paying for the premium?

joel0407
14-07-2013, 11:47 PM
Simply inexcusable for any dealer, irrespective of marque, to use the wrong oil.

All well and good to have factory trained technicians, factory specified guidelines, factory documentation and whatnot, but if it doesn't translate into a service as the manufacturer intended and as the customer expects, what's the point of paying for the premium?

Got to agree with this. Does that mean they now take responsability for warranty?

Transporter
15-07-2013, 08:20 AM
Got to agree with this. Does that mean they now take responsability for warranty?

No one here can give you the 100% answer for that. The common sense is telling me that, they would have to be responsible, but ...
the best would be to contact VW head office to make them aware of that. I would be interested to hear the answer from them. :)

hoi polloi
21-07-2013, 07:03 PM
Got a bit of a heart flutter when I saw this thread... Rummaging around for service receipts I found the last oil change was Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 which according to them is OK for 504/507 use...

**phew**

Agree with the above comments though that if you're paying a premium for dealer service you'd want the job to be 100%.. Nothing less.

Hillbilly
21-07-2013, 07:11 PM
Got a bit of a heart flutter when I saw this thread... Rummaging around for service receipts I found the last oil change was Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 which according to them is OK for 504/507 use...

**phew**

Agree with the above comments though that if you're paying a premium for dealer service you'd want the job to be 100%.. Nothing less.

Mobil 1 ESP is actually 0W-40 50200/50500

Mobil1 ESP Formula is 5W-30 50400/50700 According to the Approved oil list on ER WIN

hoi polloi
21-07-2013, 07:23 PM
Mobil 1 ESP is actually 0W-40 50200/50500

Mobil1 ESP Formula is 5W-30 50400/50700 According to the Approved oil list on ER WIN

Definitely doesn't say "Formula"... Hoping they ran outta characters in the description column... (or else couldn't be bothered putting the full description in!!)

Confused :confused:

- Anthony.

Hillbilly
21-07-2013, 07:35 PM
Definitely doesn't say "Formula"... Hoping they ran outta characters in the description column... (or else couldn't be bothered putting the full description in!!)

Confused :confused:

- Anthony.

Read here https://drive.google.com/?usp=folder&authuser=0#folders/0B3CrNKR2GhrgQVZja2dkLTI4dGM

The "Step" ones are the alphabetical listings for each brand

hoi polloi
21-07-2013, 08:19 PM
Read here https://drive.google.com/?usp=folder&authuser=0#folders/0B3CrNKR2GhrgQVZja2dkLTI4dGM

The "Step" ones are the alphabetical listings for each brand

Yep, see it in there... Thanks

Diesel_vert
22-07-2013, 11:52 AM
Mobil 1 0W-40 is a full-SAPS 502.00/505.00 oil and is generally available worldwide.

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is a mid-SAPS 504.00/507.00 oil and is generally available worldwide.

Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 is a mid-SAPS 502.00/505.00 oil and is generally not available in the Asia-Pacific region.


By elimination, that leaves Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 as the oil that was used in your car.


In the extremely unlikely chance that Mobil 1 ESP 0W-40 was used in your car (and notwithstanding VW's call for a 507.00 oil), it wouldn't actually adversely affect the car's emissions devices because it is still a mid-SAPS oil.

Alex31
03-09-2013, 01:16 PM
Would it be wise to do an oil and oil filter change at 7500km between services on a new TDI golf??

Transporter
03-09-2013, 01:30 PM
Would it be wise to do an oil and oil filter change at 7500km between services on a new TDI golf??

Not just the TDI, the TSI as well. I do it every 6 months (usually less than 7,500km) always before summer and before winter. :)

Ryeman
13-02-2014, 03:23 PM
Transporter,
I'd like to do mine at 7.5k (with Penrite 5-30 Enviro+) but seem I'm up against the strictures of the fixed price servicing agreement.
Heard of a way round it?