New intercooler

[Lito]

so I've been doing research as of late regarding intercoolers and pressure drop vs cooling effeciancy and I've come to the conclusion that i want to swap my cheapy godspeed core with something with a bit more quality, trouble is im not sure what. I've found a few places in Brisbane that do custom cores but that sounds quite pricey. i also did a little searching on ebay and found this.... Darkside Universal 2.25" Front Mount Intercooler for 1.9 TDI (FMIC) - 540x140x65 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Darkside-Universal-2-25-Front-Mount-Intercooler-for-1-9-TDI-FMIC-540x140x65-/140892728728?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item20cddc6d98&_uhb=1)
they seem to specialise in vag and it looks like a decent product.
does anyone have any suggestions i don't really wanna pay more than around $300-$400.

oh and the rough dimensions im looking for are

height 6.5in
depth 2.5in
core length 20in
end tank to end tank 28in


any input would be greatly appreciated

[Sirocco20348]

Whats wrong with your current intercooler?

Have you done any testing to conclude that it is not doing a good job?

[Njay]

check out the welly cooler

[Lito]

Whats wrong with your current intercooler?

Have you done any testing to conclude that it is not doing a good job?

at the recent polo dyno my iat were around 60c ambient was about 30. and it doesn't seem to be putting down the right amount of power for the boost i run. last dyno was about 135kwatw running around 22psi. it just feels like its pulling back at high rpm

[h100vw]

at the recent polo dyno my iat were around 60c ambient was about 30. and it doesn't seem to be putting down the right amount of power for the boost i run. last dyno was about 135kwatw running around 22psi. it just feels like its pulling back at high rpm

Lito, we should log that on the street and not the dyno. Even at 60 my Polo was going hard. When did you last put some plugs in it?

Gavin

[Lito]

Lito, we should log that on the street and not the dyno. Even at 60 my Polo was going hard. When did you last put some plugs in it?

Gavin

hmm, well last time i did plugs was less than 5k ago. i have a new set ready to go in just waiting on a new cts to arrive (taking soooo long, thank you x-mas post rush). i was gonna see if that made it any better but if not the only thing left is the ic or the maf... i wouldn't mind doing some more logging though, just to narrow down what's going on

[Njay]

what the frankenturbo F4h rated to, didn't troy pull 155kw atw with one

[Lito]

what the frankenturbo F4h rated to, didn't troy pull 155kw atw with one

yeah around that, and im pretty sure that was only a base file too

[Sirocco20348]

I've only been looking up air intake temps over the last couple of days, so its still a bit foreign to me.

I know lower is better, but what is a realistic good air intake temp at WOT 3rd gear 6000rpm at 25-30 degrees ambiant temp?

Are the powergaskets worthwhile to take heat away from the intake manifold?

[h100vw]

I've only been looking up air intake temps over the last couple of days, so its still a bit foreign to me.

I know lower is better, but what is a realistic good air intake temp at WOT 3rd gear 6000rpm at 25-30 degrees ambiant temp?

Are the powergaskets worthwhile to take heat away from the intake manifold?

I think if you can get within 5-10 degrees of ambient, that's pretty good.

From what I have read though, the pressure drop across the IC is more important. ie do you want the turbo working real hard to produce 20 PSI in the intake when the IC is dropping 5 PSI. So to get the requested boost you are introducing a heap of heat. Effectively negating the boost.

My A3 when I first fitted the JBS04 was flicking up to 28PSI yet when that was turned down to a realistic 21/22 it went just as well (butt dyno).

So in the scheme of things, dropped boost pressure (volume of air) is more important than increased intake temps (to a point).

Lito, why not fit another boost gauge before the IC and compare that with the one after?? I plan on doing this with the Polo in the near future.

Gavin

[vwthunder]

what the frankenturbo F4h rated to, didn't troy pull 155kw atw with one

Yeah it was around that, graph is somewhere

They didnt give it a proper run and pulled it off the dyno as they couldnt get a AFR reading and didnt want to risk doing damage to the engine. The few little runs they did, well they were only playing :P

My scangauge reads the intake temp a 1 or 2 degrees over ambient

[Sirocco20348]

From what I have read though, the pressure drop across the IC is more important. ie do you want the turbo working real hard to produce 20 PSI in the intake when the IC is dropping 5 PSI. So to get the requested boost you are introducing a heap of heat. Effectively negating the boost.


VERY interesting. So is that the 2 values in vagcom: Boost Pressure 'Actual' and 'Requested'. ?

So the engine is requesting for example 20 psi, but with an inefficient intercooler the turbo my actually be pushing the equivilant to 25psi to correct the pressure drop?

Am I on the right track? Sorry for hijacking thread, Im just contemplating what I would do in Lito's position.

What density internal fin design is better from the 2 below?

CX racing core: (probably similar to godspeed as its the same price on ebay)
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/01/cxracingcore-1.jpg

Treadstone:
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2013/01/treadstone20core-1.jpg

[h100vw]

VERY interesting. So is that the 2 values in vagcom: Boost Pressure 'Actual' and 'Requested'. ?

So the engine is requesting for example 20 psi, but with an inefficient intercooler the turbo my actually be pushing the equivilant to 25psi to correct the pressure drop?

Am I on the right track? Sorry for hijacking thread, Im just contemplating what I would do in Lito's position.


Nope, requested is what the ECU is asking for, actual is what is being seen in the MAP sensor just after the intercooler. There should be practically no split between the 2. Certainly once the turbo is spooling effectively, say over 2000revs.

Your second statement is correct, the ECU works the turbo hard to get the actual up.

Gavin

[Sirocco20348]

So its kind of a catch 22...

If you have a low fin density intercooler (like the cxracing above), you will have great flow and great IAT on the first pull. But the longer the car is on full boost or the more pulls it does, the crappier it will get in terms of heat dissapation leading to higher IAT and lower power.

But with a high fin density, the flow wont be as great at first to reach full boost and initial power output wont be as high as a low fin intercooler. However, in the long run as the car performs more pulls or full boost , the high fin density will disappate the heat better than the low fin, and therefore maintain higher power figures over a prolonged period of time.

More good reading:
http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/prod_imgs/installation/ul/install-84.pdf
http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0304_turp_intercooler/

So i guess it depends on what LITO wants to achieve. If he wants to be king of the dyno, then he's probably better keeping the godspeed, parking the car overnight at the dyno center, warm up the car in the morning, spray the intercooler with water, and then let loose on the first dyno run lol.

otherwise if you track the car i would be ditching the godspeed and going for a more complex fin design for better transfer of heat.

Dynos are pretty stupid by the sounds of things, everyone just brings out there best dyno sheet when they should be averaging all their runs. If someone has a inefficient intercooler, after 5 runs on the dyno their high first run dyno figure will be much lower.

[Sirocco20348]

check out the welly cooler

Do you have a link to this cooler?

[h100vw]

Do you have a link to this cooler?

Fitting Guide for LCR: Toyosport Large FMIC & Mocal Oil Cooler - SEAT Cupra.net - SEAT Forum (http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=353162)

It's a Toyo sport intercooler. ebay it

Gavin