Running In procedure 103tdi

[duderduderini]

Hi
Am about to get a Scout but would like to know if there is a Diesel Specific Running in Procedure.
A mate of mine had a Land Rover defender and he was told to drive it like he hated it to run it in.. This leads me to conclude that being too gentle during running in may glaze bores or lead to a lazy engine?
Thanks
Nick

[duderduderini]

HI
I have read the thread(s) re the "special" running in oils that come in the Diesels but find it hard to accept a 15k first service. My neighbour was a diesel mechanic for a zillion years and he says with the small spin on type filters, long oil intervals are a recipe for engine wear. If the filters were big etc then ok.
I plan to do my 1st service at about 2k then 7 then 12 then 15k. I wont be telling the dealer as ridiculously some on the forum say it might void warranty... well I'll be!!!
Thanks

[duderduderini]

Futrhter to my post re the running in/oil change intervals my next question is
What oils are some of you using in the 103tdi with DPF?
Brands I have used in other cars are Shell helix ultra/Mobil 1
so which full on synthetic can anyone recommend?
Thanks
Where can I get genuine oil filters.. if changing oil invalidates warranty then i need a melbourne dealer
Thanks

[gldgti]

Nick, welcome to the forums.

In short, yes, you should work the engine a bit.

Please read the stickies and do a search as this has been covered many times... e.g.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f28/running-diesel-engine-12575.html

Also, your car user manual has a great running in procedure.

Cheers
Aydan

[Buller_Scott]

Hi
drive it like he hated it to run it in.. This leads me to conclude that being too gentle during running in may glaze bores or lead to a lazy engine?
Thanks
Nick

yep. hole in one. wait till its nice and warm (10-12kms of normal non hwy driving), then thrash it.

even n/a clio renaultsports seem to have higher dyno figures when they've been run in hard, versus treating the thing like some sort of delicate china doll.

[Buller_Scott]

shell helix, fuchs, etc etc... as long as it's 5w30, VAG spec 504.00-507.00 approved, then you can put it in your car.

penrite has an oil as per the above specs, that says it's VW/Audi long life specific on the front label. i use that for top ups.

---------- Post added at 03:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:11 PM ----------


HI
I have read the thread(s) re the "special" running in oils that come in the Diesels but find it hard to accept a 15k first service. My neighbour was a diesel mechanic for a zillion years and he says with the small spin on type filters, long oil intervals are a recipe for engine wear. If the filters were big etc then ok.
I plan to do my 1st service at about 2k then 7 then 12 then 15k. I wont be telling the dealer as ridiculously some on the forum say it might void warranty... well I'll be!!!
Thanks

funnily enough there is quite a bit of talk on tdiclub.com that alludes to all the wear on an engine taking place within the first 1,000 miles (or whatever) of replacing the oil, due to the detergents used in modern synthetic oils.

the argument seems to be that replacing the oil frequently is a recipe for engine wear. there are those that agree and disagree, however i've chosen ''longer" oil change intervals - 20,000km minimum.

[Transporter]

HI
I have read the thread(s) re the "special" running in oils that come in the Diesels but find it hard to accept a 15k first service. My neighbour was a diesel mechanic for a zillion years and he says with the small spin on type filters, long oil intervals are a recipe for engine wear. If the filters were big etc then ok.
I plan to do my 1st service at about 2k then 7 then 12 then 15k. I wont be telling the dealer as ridiculously some on the forum say it might void warranty... well I'll be!!!
Thanks

You'll be ok.
I changed the oil at 1000km in our 103TDI Tiguan and now at 12,500km, it already had 3 oil changes. IMO, there is no special oil beacause of the DPF at least.

As for your other questions (I merged your threads into this one) the brand doesn't matter as long as it is VW507.00 approved.
I change the engine oil every 7,500km or 6 months and recomend the same to everybody who drives in the city traffic or under severe driving conditions.

---------- Post added at 04:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 PM ----------



funnily enough there is quite a bit of talk on tdiclub.com that alludes to all the wear on an engine taking place within the first 1,000 miles (or whatever) of replacing the oil, due to the detergents used in modern synthetic oils.

the argument seems to be that replacing the oil frequently is a recipe for engine wear. there are those that agree and disagree, however i've chosen ''longer" oil change intervals - 20,000km minimum.

Well, don't believe in everything what you read over the internet. I'm failing to get how the fresh oil with all the additives in, is worst for the engine than continue driving on the oil with additives that are 1/2 depleted or depleted. Even if you would change the oil every day, you will not get more engine wear. :)

[mk5_tdi]

I've heard its the same with petrol cars too
as the bores when machined now are a finer process than long ago so you actually have to 'drive it like you stole it' when running in the engine so there is less chance of glazing up etc

[duderduderini]

Thanks Guys. It scares me to think that new oil causes wear.. I am not challenging the member who wrote it but I just Cant figure how it can.. if anyone knows the science behind it, then please post.
Many thanks for all your advice.
Guess i will be "working the tdi more than anticipated"
Nick

[Greg Roles]

You do indeed need to watch your oils with the DPF in mind. You want a zero ash oil, and most higher end 507 spec oils are low ash. Oil ash cannot be burnt off in the DPF and is the majority causitive agent that eventually clogs it.

I use Penrite Enviro, but anything decent and 507 spec will be fine.

I am a big fan of swapping out the oil early during run in, and always try to run in on mineral oils, but was unable to do so with the TDI due to the PD cam requirements for synthetic high shear oils. Penrite has a specific run in oil, used it to great effect on my last few cars, but no good for DPF cars!

It always comes down to peak combustion pressure, so you want lots of foot to the floor, but at lower speeds, higher loads so both revs and speed are kept within reason. No point revving the tits off it, nor flogging the brakes, tranny etc, so my belief is pick a hilly route, spend lots of time one gear too high, and lots of foot to the floor max efforts making the engine labour - peak engine pressures forcing the rings against the bore. Accelerating up a hill from 20-30kph in third as an example.

Worst thing to do is drive home from the dealer at a constant speed on the highway, you need to vary it as much as possible.

The law of diminishing returns applies, and the meat of the effect happens in the first few hundred kms, but a diesel isn't totally run in for many tens of thousands "apparently".

Google "motoman run in" if you want the method I swear by, and I've yet to have a bad result from following it.

[duderduderini]

Hi Again.
With regards to the Motoman run in .. I accidentally did that a year back when running in my rotax racing kart. Normally you do 3 sessions of ten minutes throttle on throttle off with brakes and it makes me so sick (motion sickness) so I put on a small rear sprocket and after warming up just went out and "raced" the engine would load up because of the talll gearing and you couldnt rev it too hard cause you ran out of room on the straights.. hence i pretty much did the motoman run in because of my laziness but it worked.. the engine ran very strong all year so yes in a few days again i am running it in so I will do the Motoman method. Thanks for giving my lazy ass methodology a name (and I have been to his website.. good stuff)

Now back to oils. I contacted Castrol tech department today asking whether Changing oil too much caused wear due to detergents and the answer was a definite NO. The email encouraged me to ring there service tech to discuss further but i was on hold for 15 minutes so i gave up.. I will try again and report back.
According to Motoman one should change the oil real quick i think it was like a few hundred miles of first thrashing err loading it during run in.
So I might just do a quick oil change at say 250 miles?

[Transporter]

The old fashion 1000km is still OK, I wouldn't change the oil at 250km. But you can't hurt, like I said, even if you change it everyday. :)
Always do the filter as well.

[Ozsko]

Who doesn't believe oils aren't important in modern diesels? My son works for a Mazda dealer and a customer brought a diesel BT50 in as it was not very healthy and still under warranty. The car had been serviced religiously so no problems except that the guy servicing it had told the owner that he did not need to use the specified oil. 8.5 thousand dollars later he found out that due to not using the correct oil his warranty was null and void. My experience with late model Euro 5 trucks is that even at 70K kilometer service intervals the oil when laboratory tested was perfectly ok. Get over the fact that oils aren't oils, long service intervals do not cause issues due to the oils being synthetic and not mineral. There is more BS written about oil changes due to old ideas and a complete ignorance of modern oils technology than most other things. If you don't believe me then get the oil lab tested and they will give you the same story.

[Umai Naa!!]

According to VW, following the run-in methods outlined in the owner's manual is the go.

Furthermore, they also recommend NOT changing the oil within the first 15,000klms. Top it up with 504/507 sure, but don't replace it.

[Transporter]

Who doesn't believe oils aren't important in modern diesels? My son works for a Mazda dealer and a customer brought a diesel BT50 in as it was not very healthy and still under warranty. The car had been serviced religiously so no problems except that the guy servicing it had told the owner that he did not need to use the specified oil. 8.5 thousand dollars later he found out that due to not using the correct oil his warranty was null and void. My experience with late model Euro 5 trucks is that even at 70K kilometer service intervals the oil when laboratory tested was perfectly ok. Get over the fact that oils aren't oils, long service intervals do not cause issues due to the oils being synthetic and not mineral. There is more BS written about oil changes due to old ideas and a complete ignorance of modern oils technology than most other things. If you don't believe me then get the oil lab tested and they will give you the same story.

You're comparing comercial vehicle driven all day to the car that is driven 1/2 hour in the morning and 1/2 hour in the afternoon under completaly different conditions.

That modern oil technology was engines black death in 70s and 80s in late 90s they renamed it to engine sludge and still less than 10 years ago VW was ordered by US courts to pay for the damages on engines caused by prolonged oil changes. Let me point out to you that, the same happened to MB, Saab and Toyota to name a few. I like the cars they build but, if they got everything that right incl. + 15,000km oil changes, how come they have the engines that are using more oil than the 2 strokes engines? Just ask many Polo owners. The engine failures on massive scale in the brand new cars just ask many Golf6 118TSI owners and not just engines, the DSG transmissions, 6 speed autos in T5s, dont get many T5 owners started on that, becuse you would really get their blood pressure high if you ask them how is their water pump doing in their 128kw engine, ask them how much it cost them to fix the 6 speed auto and you could could be blamed for their heart attack, the unit injectors in 125kW TDIs, ignition coils in TSI engines, leaking water pumps in less than 75000km almost in every engine that VW builds and heaps of other faults.

OTHERS PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD TO THIS LIST OF FAULTS.

We have 6 VAG cars in family, 6 different drivers, I change the oil in them every 6 months or 7500km which ever comes first and I dont top up engine oil in them because there is no need for it.

So, yeah trust the engeeniers who designed it with all these faults inbuild, but no fixes. Inbuild obsolescence is the term for it where extended oil changes and life time oil fills go hand in hand.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

[Ozsko]

Transporter, you need to get a job advising VW and every other company about oils as they obviously know nothing at all. You are a typical product of the motor industry who will not adapt to new ideas and you then propagate those ideas to every person who will listen. I don't care how many VW's you own. The oil sludging you are talking about was not in diesel engines so don't compare the two, it was in petrol motors and Toyotas were really good at it. The guy who serviced the Mazda was just like you, he knew it all as well and look what happened to that.

[bluey]

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f28/running-diesel-engine-12575.html


The real article is a link away from that forum thread.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f69/running-new-diesel-1236.html

Specifically, does "warm" mean warm water temperature or warm oil temperature. Not having had an oil temp gauge before, I see it takes a lot longer for oil temp to come up than water temp.

[Buller_Scott]

Transporter, you need to get a job advising VW and every other company about oils as they obviously know nothing at all. You are a typical product of the motor industry who will not adapt to new ideas and you then propagate those ideas to every person who will listen. I don't care how many VW's you own. The oil sludging you are talking about was not in diesel engines so don't compare the two, it was in petrol motors and Toyotas were really good at it. The guy who serviced the Mazda was just like you, he knew it all as well and look what happened to that.

mate i appreciate where you're coming from, but this doesnt have to become personal at all... i think you've got something to contribute so please dont shoot yourself in the foot by letting things get insulting etc...

unfortunately, at the end of the day, we in the aussie VW tdi scene, as a whole, will not really come as close to perfection as the tdiclub boys, with their testing different oils and different oil change intervals under different driving conditions and getting used oil analysis multiple times to ascertain what the best combination of oil+interval+driving style+load may be for their car.

here, it's more a case of word-of-mouth, conferring with acquaintances, and deciding where to go from there.

for what it's worth, and once again i dont have the link, but i spent quite a while reading up on it on tdiclub about 40,000km's ago - and i read enough data etc to convince me personally that longer oil change intervals will be better for reducing engine and cam lobe wear. from now on, it will be 20,000km oil change intervals minimum - next one i do will probably be after the 30,000km mark.

i use VERY little oil, by the way - i maybe have to top up half a litre to 1 litre between each oil change, at most.

[bluey]

According to VW, following the run-in methods outlined in the owner's manual is the go.

Furthermore, they also recommend NOT changing the oil within the first 15,000klms. Top it up with 504/507 sure, but don't replace it.

I thought diesels have a special running in oil, than permits a little more wear than a full synthetic 507 oil. So yes, don't change the oil in a diesel until 15,000km.

Availability of 507 synthetic oils is limited. The special Castrol one provided by VW dealers is not available retail last I looked. Shell Helix Ultra has one 507 oil.

[Transporter]

Transporter, you need to get a job advising VW and every other company about oils as they obviously know nothing at all. You are a typical product of the motor industry who will not adapt to new ideas and you then propagate those ideas to every person who will listen. I don't care how many VW's you own. The oil sludging you are talking about was not in diesel engines so don't compare the two, it was in petrol motors and Toyotas were really good at it. The guy who serviced the Mazda was just like you, he knew it all as well and look what happened to that.

I bow before your superior knowledge and abilities to judge people over the internet.

[Umai Naa!!]

I thought diesels have a special running in oil, than permits a little more wear than a full synthetic 507 oil. So yes, don't change the oil in a diesel until 15,000km.

Availability of 507 synthetic oils is limited. The special Castrol one provided by VW dealers is not available retail last I looked. Shell Helix Ultra has one 507 oil.

You can buy the Castrol or VW-branded Castrol oil through your dealership. Failing that, the likes of Supercheap sell Shel Helix Ultra Extra (5W30 504/507), and Penrite Enviro+ (5W30 504/507). They all seem to be around the same price, at roughly $20 for 1L, or around $90 for 5L.

[bluey]

They all seem to be around the same price, at roughly $20 for 1L, or around $90 for 5L.

Got Shell Helix Ultra Extra 5L at Supercheap's 20% Easter Sat sale for $59.99.

[Umai Naa!!]

Gah! I should've stocked up!

[Diesel_vert]

Hi
Am about to get a Scout but would like to know if there is a Diesel Specific Running in Procedure.
A mate of mine had a Land Rover defender and he was told to drive it like he hated it to run it in.. This leads me to conclude that being too gentle during running in may glaze bores or lead to a lazy engine?
Thanks
Nick

When you eventually take possession of your car, read the owner's manual, read Motoman's guide, and then keep a nice balance between the two. IMO, you don't need to follow either guide to the letter, and certainly don't treat it as gospel.

I'm also of the opinion that just driving it normally will be completely fine. Avoid babying or labouring it excessively, and certainly don't hesitate to use the throttle and give it some revs when the mood takes you, but don't rev the nuts off it just for the sake of it.

I know it's a new car and all, but don't get too precious - they make thousands upon thousands of TDI units (even if they do get the odd one wrong). ;)


I plan to do my 1st service at about 2k then 7 then 12 then 15k.

IMO, absolutely pointless.

Either change the oil + filter every 7 500 km/6 months (whichever of two you reach first) or 15 000 km/12 months (whichever of the two you reach first).

Despite the shoddy workmanship of VAG cars (Transporter's comments are quite valid in this respect), the suitability of the current oil change interval (OCI) has been more or less been confirmed by the TDIClub Forum in America, who (as Buller_Scott already alluded to) have a more comprehensive knowledge on all matters related to diesels.

That said, nothing is preventing you from doing otherwise - it's your car after all.


I wont be telling the dealer as ridiculously some on the forum say it might void warranty... well I'll be!!!

You won't void the warranty.


Futrhter to my post re the running in/oil change intervals my next question is
What oils are some of you using in the 103tdi with DPF?
Brands I have used in other cars are Shell helix ultra/Mobil 1
so which full on synthetic can anyone recommend?

You can use any oil as long as it's on VW's approved oil list. The relevant standard is VW 504/507. All are synthetic (Group III or higher) and SAE grade 5W-30. I've complied a list here (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/forums/f112/why-you-need-use-504-507-oils-fsi-tsi-tdi-engines-47140.html) for everyone's convenience.


Where can I get genuine oil filters.. if changing oil invalidates warranty then i need a melbourne dealer

You can purchase them from any Audi, Skoda or VW dealer. Refer to the internet for locations.

On that note, use only OEM or genuine filters.


Thanks Guys. It scares me to think that new oil causes wear.. I am not challenging the member who wrote it but I just Cant figure how it can.. if anyone knows the science behind it, then please post.
Many thanks for all your advice.
Guess i will be "working the tdi more than anticipated"
Nick

IMO, you will not greatly damage the engine even if you have an OCD, but neither will there be any great payoff further down the track.

Do you seriously envision keeping the car for over 300 000 km? Sure, the internals of the engine might have another 200 000 km to go before needing a rebuild, but by that time all the other bits on the car would be in such a state that it would render the car an economic write-off.


According to Motoman one should change the oil real quick i think it was like a few hundred miles of first thrashing err loading it during run in.
So I might just do a quick oil change at say 250 miles?

Again, completely pointless IMO.