Hot hatch or sports coupe?

[Mac135]

A question that pertains to nothing important.......

VW promote the roc as a sports coupe which in my mind means its competitors are along the lines of the Alfa Brera, 1 series coupes, Mazda RX8, audi TT, Nissan 370 and so on.

Yet most reviews/reviewers refer to it as a hot hatch - meaning the Audi S3, volvo C30, golf r etc are its competitors.

In your opinion which is it - hot hatch or sports coupe?

What car did you consider as an alternative to the Roc?

For me i think of it as a sports coupe. Alternatives merc C class coupe or hanging on the 135i.

(yes i haven't mentioned the Megane. For me its also a sports coupe but wasn't a car i considered)

[tee_off]

I'd call it hot hatch. Alternatives would be Megane 250 Cup, Focus RS, stuff like that

[Bain]

Id consider it a hot hatch over a sports coupe.

My definition is that you can actually fit people comfortably in the back seats of a hot hatch. The same cant be said for a sports coupe.

[Andych]

You can't consider it a Hot Hatch... they were by definition a Hot version of the normal Mum and Dad Hatch... ie Golf GTI, Golf R, Focus XR5, Focus RS etc... The Scirocco is a Coupe body... it does not share its bodywork with any mundane Mum and Dad model... the fact that it can carry 4 adults in reasonable comfort is testament to efficient packaging and overall size... nothing more.

You can see that when look at a Golf R next to a Scirocco.. as below.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z346/andrewchoake/Scirocco%20R/Dinos.jpg

As for competitors... well you could if you wanted compare the Roc to an Aston DB9 as they are both Sports Coupes but the reality is you need to look at the Class of the car not just the style description... and as such the Megane 250 is the most obvious competitor...

Everyone will have there own take on it all... at the end of the day it doesn't matter..

I am more than happy with my Roc.. although if someone wants to swap their DB9 I would consider it...:)

[Bain]

You can't consider it a Hot Hatch... they were by definition a Hot version of the normal Mum and Dad Hatch... ie Golf GTI, Golf R, Focus XR5, Focus RS etc... The Scirocco is a Coupe body... it does not share its bodywork with any mundane Mum and Dad model... the fact that it can carry 4 adults in reasonable comfort is testament to efficient packaging and overall size... nothing more.


The Scirocco R shares its body with the mundane models (Scirocco and GT). There are 6 different engine types (both diesel and petrol) for this vehicle as well as a myriad of choices for trim and fit out.

Here in Aus we dont get the choice but if you could i bet wed see an awful lot of base model Scirocco's out there.

I think we are all talking about the same thing really, you could put it into either class and it would suit.

[Andych]

The Scirocco R shares its body with the mundane models (Scirocco and GT). There are 6 different engine types (both diesel and petrol) for this vehicle as well as a myriad of choices for trim and fit out.

Here in Aus we dont get the choice but if you could i bet wed see an awful lot of base model Scirocco's out there.

I think we are all talking about the same thing really, you could put it into either class and it would suit.

They are far from Mundane... the Euro market is vastly different to here with varying levels of tax etc based on engine size and fuel type... it is still a Sports Coupe and not a Mum and Dad run-about Hatchback...

[Ryan_R]

Looks more like a coupe (i.e. like a Brera) to me, but the tailgate is a hatch, so....

[Diesel_vert]

Put simply, a hatchback has a tailgate or liftgate hinged at the top of the C-pillar (as opposed to a wagon, which is hinged at the D-pillar).

A coupe typically has a boot lid which is hinged at the bottom of the C-pillar (BMW 1-Series M), or that the top of the C-pillar is positioned so far from the rear that it can be considered a coupe (Audi TT).

Therefore, the Scirocco is technically a hatchback.

However, to make people think it looks like a coupe while still being as practical as a hatchback was the probably whole point of the design brief, which I think they have pulled off quite successfully, and is certainly a credit to the designers in that regard.


And finally, the actual performance of a vehicle doesn't change the classification of its body type. For example, you can have a slow coupe, or a fast station wagon, etc.

[Andych]

Looks more like a coupe (i.e. like a Brera) to me, but the tailgate is a hatch, so....

The tailgate is more like a window than a hatch... :)

As far as I am concerned... my Scirocco R is a Sports Coupe... :banana: lol

[AdamD]

A coupe typically has a boot lid which is hinged at the bottom of the C-pillar (BMW 1-Series M), or that the top of the C-pillar is positioned so far from the rear that it can be considered a coupe (Audi TT).

The TT style used to be referred to as a Liftback, but you don't hear that term used much these days.

IMO, both terms (sports coupe, hot hatchback) are equally applicable to the Scirocco, so it's up to owner's discretion. :)

[Mac135]

You can't consider it a Hot Hatch... they were by definition a Hot version of the normal Mum and Dad Hatch... ie Golf GTI, Golf R, Focus XR5, Focus RS etc... The Scirocco is a Coupe body... it does not share its bodywork with any mundane Mum and Dad model... the fact that it can carry 4 adults in reasonable comfort is testament to efficient packaging and overall size... nothing more.

You can see that when look at a Golf R next to a Scirocco.. as below.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/

As for competitors... well you could if you wanted compare the Roc to an Aston DB9 as they are both Sports Coupes but the reality is you need to look at the Class of the car not just the style description... and as such the Megane 250 is the most obvious competitor...


Everyone will have there own take on it all... at the end of the day it doesn't matter..

I am more than happy with my Roc.. although if someone wants to swap their DB9 I would consider it...:)


I think you are on the money as VW aleady have two hot hatches the GTI and the Golf R. Your aston comparison stretches credibility a bit i only went as far as a Nissan 370!

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 PM ----------


The Scirocco R shares its body with the mundane models (Scirocco and GT). There are 6 different engine types (both diesel and petrol) for this vehicle as well as a myriad of choices for trim and fit out.

Here in Aus we dont get the choice but if you could i bet wed see an awful lot of base model Scirocco's out there.

I think we are all talking about the same thing really, you could put it into either class and it would suit.



Bain i don't think the rule book says a sports coupe has to be fast. The brera or the 407 coupes have not been really that sporting.
I think the first measure is style. I think the two examples given prove that point.

[Bain]

I never said a sports coupe had to be fast. Not sure where you got that assumption from?

I was saying andys reasonings for sports coupe vs hot hatch were flawed in that he compares other cars having base model cars with go fast variants.. the scirocco is the same.

[Mac135]

No you are right you didn't - i took that in part from your referencing the standard version of the r available in Europe. A 122bhp 1.4 or a 140bhp TDI is not going to be a rocket is it?

The question is just a bit of fun really. I was just amused that VW pump the sports coupe as a promo line while the local journo's have called a spade a spade and that scirocco = hot hatch

[Diesel_vert]

I think the first measure is style.

There are actual definitions on what constitutes a particular body type or design, some of which I've outlined in my previous post. Just because a car is styled to look like a coupe, doesn't mean it's a coupe. For example:

The Mercedes Benz CLS and VW Passat CC are modern examples in which a sedan has been styled to look like a coupe.

The same effect has been achieved with the VW Scirocco, in which a hatchback has been styled to look like a coupe.

However, that doesn't detract from the actual styling of all three cars, mainly because I think the design of all three cars are quite successful.

In contrast, the BMW 5-series GT (sedan styled to look like a SUV) or the BMW X6 (SUV styled to look like a coupe) are much less successful IMO!!


The question is just a bit of fun really. I was just amused that VW pump the sports coupe as a promo line while the local journo's have called a spade a spade and that scirocco = hot hatch

The difference between a marketer and a journalist (in principle).

[Mac135]

No argument from me on your definitions. Would be interested to know how the Roc is classified in th Vfacts data though.

Also agree on your 5 series GT and especially X6 assessments.

[Andych]

The Scirocco is classed by Insurance Companies as a 3 door Coupe...

Bain... I was much more specific than "base model cars with go fast variants"... I specifically said Mum and Dad run-abouts.. the Base model Scirocco can hardly be called a Mum and Dad run-about...

Now.. if the designer and Manufacturer calls it a Coupe and Insurance companies call it a Coupe... then surely it IS a Coupe...

By definition a Coupe should have no B Pillar and a shorter body more-so when it is a derivative of a sedan (shares some sheet metal). The Scirocco's design imitates the no B Pillar look as it would be almost impossible to produce a Mass Production vehicle these days to meet ANCAP 5 without a B Pillar...
The longer doors and pillarless windows also make the case for it being a Coupe body...finally... sit either side of a Scirocco a 3 door Golf R and a 3 door GTI... both true HOT HATCHES and see the difference.. the Roc is much lower in the roof-line with it tailing off to the rear in a Fastback or Berlinetta style.. The Roc is wider... and lower.. and shorter and only seats 4....

Yep... definitely a Sports Coupe...

[Bain]

The Scirocco is classed by Insurance Companies as a 3 door Coupe...

Bain... I was much more specific than "base model cars with go fast variants"... I specifically said Mum and Dad run-abouts.. the Base model Scirocco can hardly be called a Mum and Dad run-about...

Now.. if the designer and Manufacturer calls it a Coupe and Insurance companies call it a Coupe... then surely it IS a Coupe...

By definition a Coupe should have no B Pillar and a shorter body more-so when it is a derivative of a sedan (shares some sheet metal). The Scirocco's design imitates the no B Pillar look as it would be almost impossible to produce a Mass Production vehicle these days to meet ANCAP 5 without a B Pillar...
The longer doors and pillarless windows also make the case for it being a Coupe body...finally... sit either side of a Scirocco a 3 door Golf R and a 3 door GTI... both true HOT HATCHES and see the difference.. the Roc is much lower in the roof-line with it tailing off to the rear in a Fastback or Berlinetta style.. The Roc is wider... and lower.. and shorter and only seats 4....

Yep... definitely a Sports Coupe...

Good explanation!

I concur, its a coupe :)

[Mac135]

So that's settled then boys?


Scirocco = sports coupe.

[Diesel_vert]

So that's settled then boys?


Scirocco = sports coupe.

Mate, it's your car. Call it anything you want.

[Ryan_R]

Just don't call it Oliver and you should be fine.

[SCIRKN]

I like the term "hyper hatch" they called it that in the Wheels magazine and on Top Gear Australia. LOVE the car either way though!

[Diesel_vert]

I like the term "hyper hatch" they called it that in the Wheels magazine and on Top Gear Australia. LOVE the car either way though!

In my mind, the term "hyper" hatch is more akin to something that's stupidly fast, like the Audi RS3 or the Volvo C30 Polestar - which would've make for a truly bonkers car!

[Golf Loon]

Sports Coupe.
Its a Coupe shape more than a hatch.