Why BP

[Scarlet]

Ok guys so tell me. Why is BP the best fuel. My Golf R is 6 weeks old and I've only ever put Shell V Power in it.

[mikinoz]

Use it. That's how you'll know.

If you can't feel any difference, stick to your shopper dockets! :)

[gareth_oau]

differnt producers own the refineries in different states, so in WA, BP refinery makes the BP Ultimate and its the best.

Shell for example either buy BP fuel and re-label it, or they import from singapore and so there are question marks about quality control during storage and handling.

Each state is different, so I;'d suggest you work out who manafactures the fuel in your state and work from there.

List of oil refineries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_refineries#Australia)

[team_v]

BP apparently has a cleaner fuel and does better over longer periods of time.

This was covered before so if you search you should find all you need.

Hope to see your R out and about at our meets.

[TomC]

If you can't feel any difference, stick to your shopper dockets! :)

I've never been able to tell the difference... It's hard to ignore 8c/L discount :D

[Stiggy_21]

i use to use shell 98, i was $hite.... then i switched to BP 98, never going back.
getting better fuel economy and more power:S
the old Shell fuel years ago was brilliant!!! but since they changed the formula to this new c%^*

i reckon it goes:
1. BP/Mobil
2. Caltex
3. Shell

just because shell is the most popular (amount of stores), doesn't mean its the best

[MattyT]

For a very long time the only option in WA was BP. Now shell have finally gotten V-Power over here and I cant tell the diff in my vr6. As gareth said though, it is probably the same fuel anyway!

[HaydEn]

I find over here in Newcastle this is opposite.

In my MR2, I got 150km's less consistently driving like a grandma with BP ultimate. Compared to V-power with a good boot full every so often. The car felt more responsive mid range to with V-power..

[VW Convert]

This is an interesting topic and every time it is covered one sees lots of opinions posted that seem to be based on perception rather than reality. One only has to look at where oil refineries are located in Australia to see what happens, oil companies horsetrade with each other to give them the ability to operate nationally.

Caltex
Lytton Brisbane
Kurnell Sydney

BP
Kwinana, WA
Brisbane

Mobil
Melbourne

Shell
Geelong
Sydney (Soon to be closed)

Below are a couple of exerpts from the ACC enquiry into the petrol industry in 2007, it demonstrates that the oil companies have various joint supply arrangements. Personally I don't feel any difference running BP, Mobil, Shell or Caltex and as is demonstrated below the Mobil silverwater terminal is supplied by pipeline from both Shell and Caltex!

Caltex
Caltex has access to 22 seaboard terminals around Australia, some of which are owned and operated
by Caltex and others are in some form of joint operating arrangement with other parties. Caltex did not
indicate at which of these terminals it could import cargoes of unleaded petrol.
In Victoria Caltex has capacity for the storage of refined products at the Newport terminal, which it
owns and operates. Caltex also has a hosting arrangement with Shell at its Corio terminal.
In New South Wales, Caltex owns and operates terminals at Banksmeadow and Newcastle. It also
has storage capacity at the Silverwater terminal, which is operated by Mobil through a joint venture.
However, the Silverwater terminal is supplied via pipeline by the Kurnell refinery and Shell’s Clyde
refinery.
Mobil

In Victoria Mobil frequently imports cargoes into its Yarraville terminal. Mobil operates the Yarraville
terminal through a joint terminal arrangement with BP. The capacity of the Yarraville terminal is 31 ML.38
Mobil stated that it supplies its product requirements in Tasmania from Shell under buy–sell
arrangements whereby fuel is generally sourced from Shell’s Geelong refinery. Mobil uses BP’s
terminals at Burnie and Hobart and Marstel’s Bell Bay terminal under joint ownership or long-term
throughput arrangements.
In New South Wales Mobil imports into the Vopak terminal via a throughput arrangement. Mobil has
a joint terminal arrangement with Caltex for access to a terminal at Silverwater. However, Mobil stated
it does not import into the Silverwater terminal because it is supplied via pipeline by Caltex’s Kurnell and
Shell’s Clyde refineries. Mobil also has a joint terminal arrangement with Shell at Newcastle, but does
not import into that terminal because it is supplied via pipeline from Sydney.41
Mobil does not regularly import into Queensland because it sources supply from BP and Caltex
under buy–sell arrangements. Mobil has throughput arrangements with BP in Cairns, Townsville and
Mackay, and with Caltex at the Gladstone terminal. Mobil has a joint terminalling arrangement with BP
at Whinstanes terminal in Brisbane. However, as mentioned above the Whinstanes terminal is not an
import terminal and is supplied via pipeline by the Caltex and BP refineries.
In Western Australia Mobil imports into the Coogee Chemicals terminal in Perth.
In South Australia, Mobil accesses the Birkenhead terminal under a joint venture arrangement with
Shell, under which Mobil operates the terminal.44 Mobil also has access to a terminal under joint
ownership or long-term throughput arrangements with Shell at Port Lincoln. Shell operates the Port
Lincoln terminal.

They are all in bed with each other.

Cheers George

[gareth_oau]

George, I dont think "they are in bed with each other".

Its economies of scale.

For example, the WA market isnt big enough for two refineries to be operating - one or both would go bankrupt. So one runs the refinery and the others buy from it, rebrand, mix their own additives etc etc.

some are now directly importing product from singapore to try and compete.

BP has the refinery in Perth and is typically the most expensive fuel.

The Shell/Coles or Caltex/Woolies fuel is typically a lot cheaper - this behaviour reflect competition and not that they are bed with each other.

[MJKooLio]

I buy Caltex only and if really need fuel I'll get BP. I know both are the same but prefer Caltex as they are always the cheapest!

If you really want to know, Caltex on Wellington St in Perth City, right next to Wellington Square is the cheapest everytime! Around the corner are 3 other Caltex stations and is at least 10 cents cheaper then the others! It's crazy and have no idea why! I buy 95 and put it in the 6R Polo GTI I have and can't tell Difference between 98 and 95 when I got the car besides price!! Same usage and same amount in a full tank cept ones slightly cheaper! I used "Premium" at Shell in my previous car, a French car and holy cow that was chewed up so fast!! Then they introduced V Power but havent tried it...

I'm sticking with Caltex, specially the one in the city!!! Everytime.

[gareth_oau]

the difference between 95 and 98 might not be noticeable if your car isnt tuned for it.

Both my tunes are specifically for 98

[Ryan_R]

I only know of one Caltex in my general area, and two BP's that are further away (never drive past them though), so I stick with VPower. I've noticed that if I mix SVP and BPU I'll get great performance, but a few trips later after filling up with BPU the car feels very sluggish, so I tend to avoid it. Might just be those particular servos in my area.

[Stiggy_21]

funny how different cars get different results.
just topped up with V Power, see how it goes... haven't tried it in at least 6 months

[VW Convert]

George, I dont think "they are in bed with each other".

Its economies of scale.

For example, the WA market isnt big enough for two refineries to be operating - one or both would go bankrupt. So one runs the refinery and the others buy from it, rebrand, mix their own additives etc etc.

some are now directly importing product from singapore to try and compete.

BP has the refinery in Perth and is typically the most expensive fuel.

The Shell/Coles or Caltex/Woolies fuel is typically a lot cheaper - this behaviour reflect competition and not that they are bed with each other.

Don't disagree with you Gareth, economy of scale is a huge issue for refiners in Australia and is the major reason that Shell is closing the Clyde refinery, our refinieries are very small relative to the rest of the world. I read a story a few years ago about a refinery under construction in India that when completed would have greater capacity than all the refineries in Australia combined!

The point I was making is that the oil companies have co-operative arrangements to enable them to operate nationally without having their own refineries.

As for Coles and Woolies well yes the fuel is cheaper but they offset against their grocery pricing and their strategy is to tie people to both fuel and groceries.

Cheers

George

[Ryan_R]

Isn't Chevron (USA company) trying to muscle in on the Aussie market?

[Diesel_vert]

I'd say the quality of storage standards at service stations and/or freshness of the fuel is a bigger differentiator than anything.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 PM ----------


Isn't Chevron (USA company) trying to muscle in on the Aussie market?

I think you'll find that Caltex and Texaco is part of the Chevron Corporation. :)

[VW Convert]

I'd say the quality of storage standards at service stations and/or freshness of the fuel is a bigger differentiator than anything.

Agree 100%, I avoid dingy, low volume stations and fill up at modern, clean, high volume stations.

Cheers

George

[BottomScratcher]

Don't disagree with you Gareth, economy of scale is a huge issue for refiners in Australia and is the major reason that Shell is closing the Clyde refinery, our refinieries are very small relative to the rest of the world. I read a story a few years ago about a refinery under construction in India that when completed would have greater capacity than all the refineries in Australia combined!

The point I was making is that the oil companies have co-operative arrangements to enable them to operate nationally without having their own refineries.

As for Coles and Woolies well yes the fuel is cheaper but they offset against their grocery pricing and their strategy is to tie people to both fuel and groceries.

Cheers

George

All of the companies are members of the Australian Institute of Petroleum. The AIP sets "gate prices" for individulal terminals. In Brisbane, Bulwer Island refinery supplies Whinstanes Terminal with product. Both BP and Mobil come out of Whinstanes. To argue that one fuel is of higher quality than the other is pretty much a waste of time.

As for oil companies "being in bed together", in 1951 Iran nationalised its oil industry, then controlled by the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (now BP), and Iranian oil was subjected to an international embargo. In an effort to bring Iranian oil production back to international markets, the U.S. State Department suggested the creation of a "Consortium" of major oil companies. The "Consortium for Iran" was subsequently formed by the following companies:
Anglo-Persian Oil Company (United Kingdom). This subsequently became Anglo-Iranian Oil Company and then British Petroleum. Following the acquisition of Amoco (which in turn was formerly Standard Oil of Indiana) and Atlantic Richfield it shortened its name to BP in 2000.
Gulf Oil (United States) In 1985 most of Gulf was acquired by Chevron, with smaller parts acquired by BP and Cumberland Farms. A network of service stations in the northeastern United States still bears the Gulf name.
Royal Dutch Shell (Netherlands/United Kingdom)
Standard Oil of California (Socal) (United States) This subsequently became Chevron.
Standard Oil of New Jersey (Esso) (United States) This subsequently became Exxon, which renamed itself ExxonMobil following the acquisition of Mobil in 1999.
Standard Oil Co. of New York (Socony) (United States) This subsequently became Mobil, which was acquired by Exxon in 1999.
Texaco (United States). This was acquired by Chevron in 2001.

The major oil companies became known as The Seven Sisters. They were in bed together then, and as evidenced by their "co-operative arrangements" they are in bed together now.

[gavs]

The simple answer was that up until 18 months ago, BP Ultimate was the only TRUE 98RON petrol because 98RON was the minimum octane rating for BP Ultimate. All the others were calculated over an average RON which added up to an average of 98RON.

Nowadays, who knows. That's why BP was the best. If you truly want the best, give avgas a go;)

[BottomScratcher]

If you truly want the best, give avgas a go;)

It's an older thread, but if anyone is thinking that running 100LL Avgas, or 100/130 Avgas might be fun to try, consider that they're leaded fuels, so even if you can afford the non-aviation use price for Avgas (about $3 p/l), and you can find someone to sell it to you for non-aviation use, it's a lot of hard work and money to put something through your engine that's going to stuff your catalytic converter, and have a computer doing flips and twists trying to figure out what it's supposed to be doing.

[Transporter]

It's an older thread, but if anyone is thinking that running 100LL Avgas, or 100/130 Avgas might be fun to try, consider that they're leaded fuels, so even if you can afford the non-aviation use price for Avgas (about $3 p/l), and you can find someone to sell it to you for non-aviation use, it's a lot of hard work and money to put something through your engine that's going to stuff your catalytic converter, and have a computer doing flips and twists trying to figure out what it's supposed to be doing.

That must be what the car hire company Budget use in their hire cars. I didn't bother with refueling, when I returned the car, let them to take care of it and they've charged me $3.30/L :facepalm: . I recon, the next time, I just put some regular unleaded in their car, saving them the cost of the tow truck and the expensive repair bill. :?

:grin:

[phaeton]

I use Shell V Power (no dockets biased) in my Jetta, I believe its runs better than BP.

[BottomScratcher]

That must be what the car hire company Budget use in their hire cars. I didn't bother with refueling, when I returned the car, let them to take care of it and they've charged me $3.30/L :facepalm: . I recon, the next time, I just put some regular unleaded in their car, saving them the cost of the tow truck and the expensive repair bill. :?

:grin:

I was in Darwin recently and had hired a Hyundai i30 from Europecar for my time there. To say fuel in Darwin isn't cheap is a bit of an understatement. On the way to the airport for my outbound flight I pulled into a servo that I have a discount card for intending to fill the car up before returning it so as not to get slugged the rental company fuel charge. I'd already sussed out where the fuel cap was, but didn't I feel a goose when I couldn't open the fuel cap cover.

After about 4 or 5 people asking me in a dry, sarcastic manner, "Hire car is it mate?" I gave up. I went to the Europecar desk at the airport and told the attendant that I attempted to fill it up, but the outer flap over the fuel cap wouldn't release. I had expected them to think that it was a novel excuse, but would slug me the charges anyhow. The girl took the keys from me, went out to the lot, tried it, came back, and said, "That's the second one this week". Seems it's a bit of an issue on some i30's. Anyhow, when the statement came in I was only billed the pump price.

BTW, nicely appointed car the i30, but wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.

[brimway]

Very few car rental outlets have on-site fuel, so one of their employees has to drive the "unfueled" car to the servo, fill it and record the details. The company has to run an account, monitor the purchases and apply them to a rental contract.

This is why they apply an incentive ie $3/l to renters to refuel the car prior to return. Car rental staff will tell you that they would be delighted if it was the renter who refueled the car and not one of them.

A bit off topic but car rental companies don't care whether its BP, Shell etc. Vehicles that require PULP, eg Europcar's Audi fleet, they use regular ULP.

[RRRRIT]

ive only ever used BP as i use to own a 500hp r33 gtr and never had an issue that said when i put in vpower it ran like a micra no power at all.
although if you get a bad batch of fuel well then your just unlucky, word of advice never fuel up when theres the tanker as he stirs up the old fuel which sits at the bottom.

[cylinderhead]

Anyone used united's 100 octane fuel?

[RRRRIT]

i wouldn't use united BP is a much better quality fuel and 98 octane is more than enough for Australian delivered cars since they detune them for the climate

[gldgti]

Anyone used united's 100 octane fuel?

Yeah, used in my carb. mk1..... awesome :-)