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View Full Version : Legality of aftermarket ecu?



ausgolfer
07-03-2006, 12:01 PM
Does anyone know what the legalities of aftermarket ecu's are state per state?
I believe in Victoria they are illegal unless you've gone to the massive expense of having it emissions tested(must be equal or better emissions performance than the spec of the standar engine that it's being used on) as part of the engineering process?

Golfwise
07-03-2006, 02:12 PM
Are we lucky in Tas.
No rules :D we can do what we like and no checks either.

syncro
07-03-2006, 03:47 PM
Actually they are technically illegal in all states as they have not been tested for compliance with ADR ## etc.

You can get them tested though and approved.

Whether anyone notices or cares is another story.

Golf Loon
07-03-2006, 07:02 PM
Yeah my VR6 Ibiza just got engineered with Microtech and the guy didn`t care. Even though it says "For Race Purposes only" on the box. As if your average cop is ever gonna notice anyway.

WABIT
07-03-2006, 07:14 PM
what happends if one of us becomes a cop huh?? :P
wed all be screwed!

wabit

static1800
11-05-2006, 10:06 PM
Ive got a wolf 3D ECU, no idea if it is legal or not dont care really.. no copper will find it, its right up under the dash that is unless he see's the chord runing to the monitor/adjuster jigga under my seat.... :roll:

imported_brackie
12-05-2006, 06:26 AM
Ive got a wolf 3D ECU, no idea if it is legal or not dont care really.. no copper will find it, its right up under the dash that is unless he see's the chord runing to the monitor/adjuster jigga under my seat.... :roll:

Yeah.. But if you write it off or (God forbid) somebody dies in it there'll be a very thorough inspection by the insurance assessor/coroner. You may have noticed that on insurance applications there is always a "modifications" section or "non-disclosure" warning. Insurance companies will do anything to squirm out of paying, and coroners..........Well.

gtimk5
12-05-2006, 07:15 AM
At least with the direct port programing it is vertually impossible to access the upgrade, especially if you have the security code option!

Bug_racer
12-05-2006, 08:17 AM
I could dispute that , but Im over these APR vs Giac chip wars . All I can say is do your research before making any statements regarding chips .

gtimk5
12-05-2006, 09:37 AM
Sorry. Didn't realise there was any "wars" between the two. Spose I haven't been on this forum long enough. Mates?

Bug_racer
12-05-2006, 10:15 AM
There are , Im happy to be in competition with you as long as its civilised and your claims are based on facts . Im just pissed at all these claims being thrown around but actuall 1/4 mile times and "real" dyno figures are never given .

syncro
12-05-2006, 10:53 AM
There are , Im happy to be in competition with you as long as its civilised and your claims are based on facts . Im just pissed at all these claims being thrown around but actuall 1/4 mile times and "real" dyno figures are never given .

An oldie but true;

"THe bull***** stops when the clutch drops".

static1800
12-05-2006, 02:27 PM
Ive got a wolf 3D ECU, no idea if it is legal or not dont care really.. no copper will find it, its right up under the dash that is unless he see's the chord runing to the monitor/adjuster jigga under my seat.... :roll:

Yeah.. But if you write it off or (God forbid) somebody dies in it there'll be a very thorough inspection by the insurance assessor/coroner. You may have noticed that on insurance applications there is always a "modifications" section or "non-disclosure" warning. Insurance companies will do anything to squirm out of paying, and coroners..........Well.

it is actually listed as being standard LOL, the only non vw gear in it though is the ECU and front seats.

TassieGTi
12-05-2006, 06:08 PM
I could dispute that , but Im over these APR vs Giac chip wars . All I can say is do your research before making any statements regarding chips .

Geez that hit a nerve, Seb. I am sure that gtimk5 was naive to the fact that any 'wars' between APR and GIAC even exist! Anyway, I think the initial purpose of this thread was to discuss the legality of an aftermarket ECU and not factory ECU upgrades. The comparison has been done to death, particularly on the OZ Audi forum. There is no right or wrong way to go! Whether it be APR, GIAC, MTM, Wetterauer, Revo Technik, Oettinger or Powerchip probably means nothing to most people! They all claim similar improvements to both power and torque! I'd say it's the dealer service and back-up they receive that matters :wink:

Having said that, there are still variables that are going to effect whether 1/4 mile times and dynos are comparable anyway!

gtimk5
12-05-2006, 07:14 PM
Thanks Mike, I wass unaware of the battle line and I never mentioned APR.
So can we now put the posting back to the legalties issue.
I am not sure if they would check ECUs. I think they would look more closely at the actual vehicle itself in the event of a serious crash.
Checking for complete roadworthiness and driver error issues

Golf Loon
12-05-2006, 07:19 PM
Yeah I agree that assessors would be looking more at brakes etc, rather than ecus.

Golfwise
13-05-2006, 12:08 PM
what happends if one of us becomes a cop huh?? :P
wed all be screwed!

wabit
Cops can like VWs too you know, after all they are actually humans too.

ps Look over your shoulder every day cos one may be watching you.

20v kit car
20-05-2006, 08:18 PM
the law australia wide is if the vechile has been modified beyond factory spec it requires an engineers report...phil is right.....the emissions is the issue.........depends on what euro rating a chip is classed at ..this indeed will be the most helpful bit of info in forming an opinion on what chip is better ..think euro 4 is the number now days....... andrew you know my opinions.......diversity makes our cars interesting otherwise they would all be the same ..as per a std new car bought today..........Seb stand back a little ....................as you would have experienced when you worked for me . cheers steve

gtimk5
20-05-2006, 08:38 PM
Cheers Steve, talk soon mate! :D :D :D

Bug_racer
26-05-2006, 09:03 PM
the law australia wide is if the vechile has been modified beyond factory spec it requires an engineers report...phil is right.....the emissions is the issue.........depends on what euro rating a chip is classed at ..this indeed will be the most helpful bit of info in forming an opinion on what chip is better ..think euro 4 is the number now days....... andrew you know my opinions.......diversity makes our cars interesting otherwise they would all be the same ..as per a std new car bought today..........Seb stand back a little ....................as you would have experienced when you worked for me . cheers steve


We have just gone into Euro 3 here in Aus and thats just for new cars I think made from Jan 1 2006 .

I dont mind standing back , but not when someone spreads exaggerated results of products . Oettinger was always on the money with its results , as is MTM , the "Other" brand markets via excessive figures and bullshait . The last dyno day should have been enough proof cause they couldnt explain their low figure on the dyno . :roll:

gtimk5
27-05-2006, 07:29 AM
Dont see what that has to do with the legalities of aftermarket ecu,s. :x

mikinoz
27-05-2006, 03:44 PM
I prefer Smiths original over Cheezles or Twisties.

Legalities?? Well this may be a slight hint to what is or is not legal

Motor Vehicle Standards Act 1989 (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/0/D6734F8173725EF1CA256F71004C9225/$file/MotorVehStand89.pdf)


Division 2—Standard vehicles not to be made nonstandard

13A Vehicles not to be made nonstandard

(1) Subject to subsection (3), a person must not do an act that results
in the modification of a standard vehicle in a way that makes it
nonstandard.
Penalty: 120 penalty units.

(2) Subject to subsection (3), a person must not hand over a standard
vehicle to a person for modification, whether by that person or
otherwise, in a way that makes it nonstandard.
Penalty: 120 penalty units.

(3) A person may modify a standard vehicle in a way that makes it
nonstandard, or hand over a new vehicle for such modification:
(a) in prescribed circumstances; or
(b) with the written approval of the Minister.

(4) An approval given under subsection (3) may be subject to written
conditions determined by the Minister.

Bug_racer
07-06-2006, 12:50 AM
Ive recently asked the ADR board about some minor modifications on cars , these guys dont have a clue . They are more interested in multiple modifications of the same thing on each car eg mudflaps , roof racks etc
I dont think you have to worry too much with earlier cars , later cars are just too difficult to put in an aftermarket ecu to make it run properly , your best bet is to find a chip tuner that can do it for you .

twin eng, twin turbs
04-07-2006, 10:06 PM
I have an EMS computer in my mk2 and had it engineered with a full emissions test carried out. The engineer stated that i had to pass current emission standards to be legal with a cat converter fitted even though its an 85 model. Although its a costly process the cops cannot defect you once the computers certified. Its noted on my engineers certificate and the rego is marked conditional aswell. :)

Golf Loon
04-07-2006, 10:36 PM
Has the car got two engines? Like your sig?

twin eng, twin turbs
11-07-2006, 07:07 PM
My MK2 only has one engine and is my every day car, But yes i have a MK1 with two engines and two turbos and yes it is rediculously fast and a real handfull to drive! I'm guessing photos are in order?:D

syncro
11-07-2006, 07:23 PM
I have an EMS computer in my mk2 and had it engineered with a full emissions test carried out. The engineer stated that i had to pass current emission standards to be legal with a cat converter fitted even though its an 85 model. Although its a costly process the cops cannot defect you once the computers certified. Its noted on my engineers certificate and the rego is marked conditional aswell. :)

If it's an '85 it wouldn't have to comply with emissions anyway as it is a private import.

evorobin
13-07-2006, 03:55 PM
So any private import can run motec/megasquirt etc?

Oneofthegreats
13-07-2006, 05:41 PM
Not exactly so syncro, unless my paper work is out of date & the guidelines have changed.

My Import Approval for my Mk1 GTI states
Quote from my paperwork.

"The approval is conditional upon the vehicle being made to meet the national standards for vehicle safety and emissions (Australian Design Rules) which applied in Australia when the vehicle was built. When that work is complete, a Compliance Plate must be fixed to the vehicle."

So if the car is an 83 model it has to comply with the ADR's incl. emissions of that same year.

Golf Loon
13-07-2006, 06:27 PM
My MK2 only has one engine and is my every day car, But yes i have a MK1 with two engines and two turbos and yes it is rediculously fast and a real handfull to drive! I'm guessing photos are in order?:D

PHOTOS, PHOTOS!

syncro
14-07-2006, 07:52 AM
Not exactly so syncro, unless my paper work is out of date & the guidelines have changed.

My Import Approval for my Mk1 GTI states
Quote from my paperwork.

"The approval is conditional upon the vehicle being made to meet the national standards for vehicle safety and emissions (Australian Design Rules) which applied in Australia when the vehicle was built. When that work is complete, a Compliance Plate must be fixed to the vehicle."

So if the car is an 83 model it has to comply with the ADR's incl. emissions of that same year.

I have known a lot of private imports and have never heard of any being tested for emissions at any time. That doesn't sound like the regulations of a private import but a commercial import. What colour is the compliance plate? Black or yellow?

Phill

Oneofthegreats
14-07-2006, 05:16 PM
It doesn't have one yet.
Its going through the processes at the moment.
It's a very long story!
But that's what is written on the approval.

syncro
14-07-2006, 05:59 PM
It doesn't have one yet.
Its going through the processes at the moment.
It's a very long story!
But that's what is written on the approval.

But under which regulations?

Private Import = Lived and used the car overseas for 1 year?

Oneofthegreats
14-07-2006, 06:42 PM
I'm sorry Phil.
Please don't get me wrong. My intention's weren't to have an argument,
I haven't lived & used the car oversea's.
What I have stated is what is on my import approval that's all.
Like I said, maybe my paperwork is out of date & the guidelines have changed.
I'll have to look into but that is what paperwork I have.

As far as after market computers go, I know of a few cars with non-factory computers microtech, motec, EMS & Wolf 3D etc that have been engineered in VIC & like what twin eng, twin turbs said it is a costly process, especially the emissions test.
I got a quote from an VicRoads approved engineer (I'm not saying who) for a emissions test & he quoted me "it could cost upto $3000 & it still might not pass". I told him " you mean to tell me that I have to pay approx $3000 & you will take my car to a test facility, basically flog the crap out of it for a day for an emissions test & it still might not pass & I could loss 3 grand for nothing" & with that said I told him to stick it up his A$%E & F*@K off & I found another engineer who would do it for $700 without the flogging.

syncro
15-07-2006, 08:49 AM
Sorry, I assumed that yours was a private import.

Private imports are nearly anything goes.