MK3 AUTO GEAR BOXES????

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Guys....a quick question (or 2)...my daughters 96 mk3 has shat the auto gearbox.............
1. Are all mk3 & mk 4 auto gearboxes interchangeable?

2. What is her cheapest best option?


Regards....Doublecab

[DVR68U]

loon wake up , dblcab talk to loon he'll set u up

[20v kit car]

to answer the question 96 models are not interchangable with mk4 golf...how many k's has the 96 box done? what is the reason for it to**** itself..what does it do in the change? has it lost drive ? as these box's display symptoms that are not always a worst case senerio.,..has a VAG 1552 or similar been hooked up to read the fault? only trying to help as a mis diagnosis may cost you ! cheers steve

[DOUBLECAB]

to answer the question 96 models are not interchangable with mk4 golf...how many k's has the 96 box done? what is the reason for it to**** itself..what does it do in the change? has it lost drive ? as these box's display symptoms that are not always a worst case senerio.,..has a VAG 1552 or similar been hooked up to read the fault? only trying to help as a mis diagnosis may cost you ! cheers steve

Hi..according to the mechanic...the gearbox radiater/cooler coroded and allowed coolant to enter the gearbox which caused it to malfunction.....he then drained the residue/sludge and obtained a 2nd hand radiator/cooler and after adding new auto gearbox fluid and fitting the new gearbox cooler/radiator he was hoping it was not 'f**ked.....however according to him it is 'f**ked".....has done approx 160ks.

The gearbox went into 2nd gear 'limp home mode' prior to the mechanic making his diagnosis.

Does this help ??

[Golf Loon]

I`ve got an auto box from a 80,000km 1995 car that had a front end shunt. The car was perfect prior to the accident, I even drove it home. Yours for $500. 0423 051737 Cheers

[Golfwise]

Cheap fix that.
Go for it.

As usual its the servicing that is the cause as generally VW trans are pretty sturdy.

[Golf Loon]

Thaks man, I reckon its a bargain and only cos I have no place for autos in my life. They cost $2000 from the wreckers.

[20v kit car]

Mat your g/box is cheap ..they are worth a lot more ...but to answer the prob...water in a auto is bad news..survival rate is low ....but the electronics of the shift need to be reset this is done via a dia system VAG style...so there is still a climmer of hope but a $500 bucks safer and less hassel to go with mat...again the auto will needx to be adapted to the ecu vai the VW system 1552/1551 or VAS..cheers hope this helps ..call me on more clarification cheers steve 0400356057

[imported_brackie]

Oh, Jeez... I'm glad I have a '78 MANUAL diesel!

[Golf Loon]

I also have the electronic wiring loom and computer for the auto if that helps :D

[DOUBLECAB]

I`ve got an auto box from a 80,000km 1995 car that had a front end shunt. The car was perfect prior to the accident, I even drove it home. Yours for $500. 0423 051737 Cheers

Hi Golf loon...sorry I have been slow responding.....daughter is still in shock :( and in greater shock after checking her bank balance :(

Anyway ...just another question re your box....I assume u drove home after the 'shunt' with no probs as I have been told that auto boxes can end up with major probs after a 'accident' due to the impact??

Regards Doublecab

[Golf Loon]

No, I bought the car from the 1st owner after the shunt and drove it in and out the driveway and round the block several times before taking it apart. It probably started and drove 6 or 7 times after the accident and before I dismantled the car. It looked funny actually, as the car had no front and i had a Mk1 radiator hooked up for testing purposes.

It actually didn`t have a very heavy shunt and it was on the other side from the gearbox. The only thing you need to swop over from your old box is the transmission oil cooler, as this one has a damaged outlet. Its an easy swop and a new one is not expensive if you`d rather do that.

I have a few people chasing this box and wanna get rid of it, as I need the space. 1st in best dressed. I can help with Sydney Metro delivery. Pm me.

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf loon....just getting round to touching base....gearbox arrived on pallett and is still on pallett.....mechanic has been snowed under....tells us will do job next week.....daughter is spitting chips :x


Let U know of results when gearbox has been fitted.

Regards....Doublecab.

[Golf Loon]

Glad it got there safely. It will taste even sweeter when your daughter finally gets to drive her car again :lol:

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon...appears we have a prob with the gearbox....mechanic removed old box from daughters 1995 Golf today and noticed the box is different to your '1995' box.......also the electrics (connections) are totally different..the spare ECU we got off U is also different to the one in the car ....mechanic thinks your box may be a earlier one.

Await your advises.

Doublecab.

[Golf Loon]

It came out of a 12/95 Car. What are the two gearbox codes?
Do they look the same?
Disregarding the loom, does the gearbox ecu fit into the same connector on your car? Use your loom, my ecu and my gearbox, should be ok.

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi again Golf Loon.....will get back to U tomorrow after having checked the gearbox codes etc.

Regards....Doublecab

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon.....

This is what we have....

your gearbox code: C321105AH-AJ

our gearbox code: 01M321105E

Your gearbox has 2 sensor/plug/loom conections on top of the gearbox whereas ours has 4 sensor/plug/loom conections on top of the gearbox.

Our vehicles nos: Engine: ADY 046289

Vin. No: WVWZZZ 1HZSW373023. Built 01/95.

At this point we have not checked that the ECU connections on our loom would 'mate' with your ECU.....however that aside ....it would still leave 2 sensor/plug/loom connections on our loom unconnected to the gearbox and what effect that may or may not have in the running of the vehicle is ??

Btw where is the ECU normally located.....VW tend to changes things around a bit. :roll:

Regards...Doublecab

[Golf Loon]

ECU is usually in the scuttle panel, near the wiper motor, towards the passenger side of the car.

Can you swop over switches etc, to make the loom work.

Sounds like a can of worms, I hate autos, at least any manual box will do.

[DOUBLECAB]

ECU is usually in the scuttle panel, near the wiper motor, towards the passenger side of the car.

Can you swop over switches etc, to make the loom work.

Sounds like a can of worms, I hate autos, at least any manual box will do.

Hi Golf Loon.....Yep...looks like we have a can of worms.....because..

1. Have checked with the local VW Dealer/spare parts dept and they advise each auto car can only have a matching auto gearbox change over if the VIN nos of the vehicle comply with the gearbox nos.

2. Changing the ECU (ie putting yours in ) does not gaurantee it will be 'sympatico' with the engine etc ....also at this point no body can tell us if your ECU will interchange with the fittings/connections in our vehicle...VW tend to have differing items/systems in vehicles of the same year/build as we see with your gearbox and ours.

3.As for changing over the (quote) 'switches, etc'..... one of the connections to make it fit to your gearbox would require a hole drilled into the gearbox (without letting the drill filings fall into the gearbox) to fit the sensor/whatever and another hole drilled and thread tapped to bolt down the sensor/whatever.

4. The second additional connector/sensor on our gearbox requires a sensor/whatever to be removed from the bottom of our gearbox and again drilled and fitted to your gearbox.

5. This is all time and money with no gaurantee that our ECU is compatible with the sensors/whatever on your gearbox or that your ECU (if it fits to our loom connector) is going to be compatible with our loom wiring.

6. It appears that unless the VIN nos are matching with the gearbox nos then they are incompatible without performing alterations that nobody can gaurantee will work.

So Golf Loon.....methinks its time to call it quits on this exercise and put it down to a 'learning experience' and you return my money plus $45-00 freight back to you (I will wear the $45-00 freight I paid to get it to me).

I think thats a fair and honest arrangement and I guess my daughter will have to suffer with no car for somewhile (maybe considerable while) longer.

Regards...Doublecab

[Golf Loon]

Sounds like you had a fun day Leo

Is this being fitted by a VW mechanic, has he ever seen one of these boxes before?

1. The ecu, loom and gearbox need to stay together. There is one connector from the car loom to the Gearbox loom. It is only about 4 wires, even if the connectors are different, are the wires the same colour? I dont see how the engine would know what gearbox it was hooked up to, or why it would need to. The gearbox is a standalone system, keep the system intact and use all of it.

2. If you need to return it, I am prepared to accept it, but dont see why I should pay the freight. You bought the item. I drove over an hour each way to deliver it to the freight depot you chose, to save you a few dollars. I will have to go back there again to reclaim the box and there is obviously 2 lots of petrol, tolls and 4 hours of my time. I reckon you are getting pretty good value for $45.

I still reckon you can fit the entire loom that I sent you to your car and plug the gearbox into it.

If the auto vin number had to match the car, the only number that would ever fit would be the original box. I reckon hes having you on, or trying to sell you a new box.

Does anyone on here have any more details of whether this box should fit Leos car? I have insufficient knowledge of the autos.

Just spoke to my mate Steve, who has fitted lots of these boxes, he confirms that it will fit and that you need to use the entire loom and ecu that I sent you. The gearbox computer only has a few inputs, live, coil wire, earth and an ecu feed. Other than that, its freestanding. Different model gearboxes had different sensors etc and that doesn`t matter, so long as you use the correct ecu for the box.

[DOUBLECAB]

Sounds like you had a fun day Leo

Is this being fitted by a VW mechanic, has he ever seen one of these
boxes before?

:!: Mechanic runs a 'Euro' car repair shop that handles..Mercs, BMW, SAAB, Volvo & VW to mention a few...services my Mk2 GTI, Mk3 and T4 doublecab.

1. The ecu, loom and gearbox need to stay together.

:!: You didn't specify this as a requirement on the outset.

There is one connector from the car loom to the Gearbox loom. It is only about 4 wires, even if the connectors are different, are the wires the same colour? I dont see how the engine would know what gearbox it was hooked up to, or why it would need to. The gearbox is a standalone system, keep the system intact and use all of it.

2. If you need to return it, I am prepared to accept it, but dont see why I should pay the freight. You bought the item. I drove over an hour each way to deliver it to the freight depot you chose, to save you a few dollars. I will have to go back there again to reclaim the box and there is obviously 2 lots of petrol, tolls and 4 hours of my time. I reckon you are getting pretty good value for $45.

I still reckon you can fit the entire loom that I sent you to your car and plug the gearbox into it.

:!: You maybe right and you maybe wrong....but my Guy like most outsource the electrics to a auto electrician which means additional unknown costs for non guaranteed results.

If the auto vin number had to match the car, the only number that would ever fit would be the original box. I reckon hes having you on, or trying to sell you a new box.

:!: According to what I have been told (by the local VW dealer)..the vin no off our car produces a VW gear box part no that specifies the specific gearbox for our car......accordingly as the gearbox off your car is somewhat different to ours your vin no would produce a different gearbox part no than ours.

BTW Just curious but what is the vin no off the car U dismantled?

As I said earlier....vw tend to have variations in the same model and thats why your box has different/less connections.


Does anyone on here have any more details of whether this box should fit Leos car? I have insufficient knowledge of the autos.

Just spoke to my mate Steve, who has fitted lots of these boxes, he confirms that it will fit and that you need to use the entire loom and ecu that I sent you. The gearbox computer only has a few inputs, live, coil wire, earth and an ecu feed. Other than that, its freestanding. Different model gearboxes had different sensors etc and that doesn`t matter, so long as you use the correct ecu for the box.

Anyway Golf Loon, with no malice or hard feelings....methinks its time to pull the plug on this and send U back the box, loom & ECU as its all getting to hard....... and I will wear the freight bill.

Will U2U tomorrow with my daughters account details for the refund.

Regards...Doublecab

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi once again Golf Loon....latest update.... :? :oops: ....daughters boyfriend has some electrical nouse....is looking at loom/ecu transplant exercise on Monday.

Will keep U posted.......what a saga........ :roll:

Regards...Doublecab

ps. have a good weekend. :wink:

[Golf Loon]

Yeah no worried doublecab
I`m not wriggling out of anything. My reputation is important.
I just feel sorry for you that the damn thing doesn`t work.
Talk to you soon.
Matt

[Golfwise]

Maybe the difference is because one may be a 1.8 and the other a 2.0 :?
I'd keep looking at a way to use the $500 box as $2000 from a wrecker would sure hurt :cry:

[DOUBLECAB]

Interesting point Golfwise....maybe Golf Loon could fill us in on that point..... I did also ask him for the Vin nos.

Still waiting..?

[Golf Loon]

Its a 1.8 Car, cant find the VIN, still looking

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon...daughters car is a 2Litre.....and having said that...any Idea as to whether there will be any probs mating it to the 2L ....ie differing torque converter coupling ??

Are U able to find out any info from your mate that has done these conversions before,............and before we pull the loom & ECU out of our vehicle tomorrow...incase it is not as simple as swaping the loom & ecu as your motor is 1.8l and ours is 2L.

Regards...Doublecab

[Golf Loon]

He reckons the Torque Converter is the same and it should work.

He did however say there was a rogue box that did not fit. Hes gonna check at work tomorrow.

You should just lift the plastic in front of the windscreen and see where the gearbox loom joins the car loom. You should be able to just plug my loom in there and connect the gearbox to it.

Talk to you tomorrow.

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi again....



He reckons the Torque Converter is the same and it should work.

He did however say there was a rogue box that did not fit. Hes gonna check at work tomorrow.

:?: Be interesting to see where our luck lies with your box. As I said earlier...VW have a tendancy to have variations in the same year/model....might pay to give him both our and your VIN nos.

You should just lift the plastic in front of the windscreen and see where the gearbox loom joins the car loom.

:!: Yep...have already located where the ECU and loom starts.


You should be able to just plug my loom in there and connect the gearbox to it.

:?: So is the latest....that we just use your loom and OUR ECU??

Talk to you tomorrow.

:?: Wait till I hear from U tomorrow with the latest.

Regards...Doublecab

[Golf Loon]

Right, under the scuttle panel the gearbox loom and ecu joins the car loom with a 4? pin connector or thereabouts. If you unplug that and plug my loom, ecu and gearbox in. That should be that.

Does that sound like what you have?

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon...

Will be checking that out shortly.

Whats the latest on the 'rogue' box?

Get back to U.

Doublecab

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi again Golf Loon.....just another question came to mind..............


your box, loom and ECU is of a 1.8lt car.....and although the gearbox & ECU should be 'stand a lone'.....it is still connected/pluged into the engine loom and accordingly the 1.8lt and 2lt engines would have differing rev rates for the gear changes..............so would not the 1.8lt ECU be tuned to the 1.8lt engine and if one hooked it to the 2ltr engine it would be out of sync...............and maybe thats why our box has 2 additional sensors?

Kindly run that by your mate.

Regards...Doublecab

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon..................another point that has come to light with this can of worms.............are the gear ratios in the 1.8lt box the same as in the 2lt box???


Regards...Doublecab

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon................here is my latest up date on this can of worms after making numerous phone calls to the 'experts'...

1. Golfs have a sticker in the boot on the body panel infront of the spare wheel (inside directly behind and below the number plate) and on that sticker amongst other things it has the CODES for the type of engine and transmissions fitted to the vehicle.

2. On my daughters Golf the Engine code is: ADY and the transmission code is: CLK. I have been told that transmissions with different codes are not compatible.

3. The transmission code stamped into the top of the bell housing of your gearbox is: CFK which they tell me is not compatible with my daughters vehicle.

4. I have also been told that the gearing in a 1.8lt auto gearbox would be different to a 2 ltr auto gearbox.... all to do with engine revs and change down/up sequences.......maybe thats why the additional sensors on our box?

5. To test the transmission CODE theory I rung up a large VW wrecker in Melbourne and said I was looking for a Golf 95 model auto gearbox and the first thing they asked was ....'What transmission CODE?' and then they informed me that all auto gearboxes are not compatible.

So sadly Golf Loon looks like I will be shipping the gearbox back to U....and my daughter will be spitting chips big time as she will be up for considerable more expense.

Will send U U2U with bank details for refund.


Regards...............Doublecab.

[imported_brackie]

Looks like a fait accompli. Pardon my French, but I've been watching this thread with great interest but I haven't interfered because there's been a lot for all of us to learn from the exchanges. Knowledge of this type will always be available to all (including visitors) when they do a search of this site. A pity the outcome wasn't a happy ending, but full marks to all concerned for your persistence, polite correspondence and vigourous research. It's all part of being an enthusiast and you're a credit to the forum :D

[Golf Loon]

Well said Brackie.

Send it back to me Doublecab and I`ll gladly return monies to you.
Serves to remind me why I hate autos. Should have slung this one in the river.

I was told that they were all interchangeable by well known expert!
However, I did not know your car was a 2L when it was sent, somehow that question never came up!

CLK and CFK that is the number we needed, not the one you printed before.

A smaller capacity gearbox works well with manuals, making em rev quicker. In theory, the same is true of an auto, but in practice, who knows. Especially complicated electronic ones like this.

Sorry for the inconvenience you and your daughter have been through.

However, as Bracki says it will help people in the future attempting this sort of job.

[DOUBLECAB]

Well said Brackie....and as I said previously ....no malice EVER intended...we all learned something about auto boxes....was hoping to the end, that there was a simple solution that would save my daughter bucks and enable a simple straight forward fitting of Golf Loons gearbox.

Sadly twas not to be............and Golf Loon is/has been up front all the way along the line, which to me means I will have no problem having any future dealings with him as I am sure there will be.....having a garage full of VW's and two daughters with VW's.

Just got a thought....maybe we should have a 'technical archive' on this site were all know VW data is cataloged and stored.........just a thought.

Regards....Doublecab

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon.............looks like U were writing the same time I was writing but U got your post up before mine.


And yes we all learnt something......and one of them was that VW's and German engineering is like the weather..........a **** load of variations....a bit like Victorian weather.............3 seasons in one day.


As I said previously.....will have no probs conducting business/or recomending U in the future.


Regards Doublecab

[Golf Loon]

Thanks Leo
No hard feelings I hope
Money will be in the bank tomorrow.
:D

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Golf Loon....definetely NO hard feelings....otherwise I would not have said I was happy to do business with U in the future.

Regards...Doublecab

[imported_brackie]

Just got a thought....maybe we should have a 'technical archive' on this site were all know VW data is cataloged and stored.........just a thought.

Regards....Doublecab

Yeah Mate. We already have a forum for items like this. It became known as "Interesting Articles" as items such as this ended up there. A thread such as this one would be way too long for it. I appeal to anyone who can contribute info or experiences that will be useful to others to write about it there. We can all benefit :D I just don't have the time to do the editing of tech stuff. Any volunteers?????

If in future you have any any contributions you now know where to put them!