T5 gearboxes to suit 1.9 TDi..

[Dubswin]

Hi, my first post, so please be gentle with me. I'm having some big issues with the gearbox in my 2005 Transporter and understand that there are only about 400 examples of my particular gearbox in Oz. Wotha??

Is anyone out there knowledgable about this situation? Especially wondering if the much more common box is easily compatible with my car and what adaptions would be necessary?

If "yes", the next obvious question is how much for new or reconditioned, or maybe from a wreck ? Anyone got a good one?
Cheers guys.

[Umai Naa!!]

What issues are you having?

Any transmission that may fit from another car, such as a Golf, may leave you with incorrect ratios.

[Cousin]

Hi Dubswin, gearbox manual or auto?

M

[Dubswin]

What issues are you having?

Any transmission that may fit from another car, such as a Golf, may leave you with incorrect ratios.


There was a big noise and I lost all drive. Mechanic says selector is cactus and (having now stripped the gearbox) that the box is not repairable.
1.9's only come in manual. There would have been maybe a few thousand of those sold in Oz since the T5's release? My point is that VW has told my mechanic that only 400 or so in this country have my gearbox. So obviously I'm wondering if the more common box ie. The one in all the others here, will work in it? Cheers, Dubswin.

[Dubswin]

Ps. Just found out that my van has what is known as a "courier" gearbox ie.designed for stop start city work. What I now want is the "coastal" box which is more freeway friendly = less revs, less noise and better economy. Apparently the boxes are interchangeable. So, has anyone got a good example of one of those for sale? Cheers, Dubswin.

[IN2VWS]

That is the first I have heard of a 'courier' box.

[Dubswin]

Yeah, me too. My van was ordered by a firm to be used as a mobile coffee outlet, so that box would make sense I guess. The cruisier one definitely better for me though. :)

[rob64981]

On your search you might come across a sporty box!!

If you do I will have that if it makes mine go faster....

I also have never heard of there being different gear boxes...but someone tells me something I did not know everyday.

Is there no info on the The Brick-yard (http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/) or VW T4 Forum - VW T5 Forum (http://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/index.php)

That could help you may be fix your box?

Rob

[Dubswin]

Ah, that's a good tip, thanks Rob. Will let you know if I spot any sporty boxes, if there is such a thing! :)

[Dubswin]

Well, my mechanic has sourced a used "coastal" gearbox, so I'm anxiously waiting to see if it is going to be compatible.
Has anyone else encountered this situation?
Also, with about 116,000 on the clock, would it be prudent to do the clutch as well, while it's all apart?
cheers, Dubswin.

[Umai Naa!!]

Absolutely do the clutch while it's apart.

The gearbox is a bitch to remove from a T5.

[Dubswin]

That's weird. I replied to the last post yesterday and it hasn't appeared. A novice at this, so I must have done something wrong. Now, where was I....
Yes, good advice re doing the clutch at the same time, thank you.
Right, cancel my previous comment about the city and highway gearboxes being interchangeable ( as VW apparently assured my mechanic they were). Absolute bollocks - everything is totally different!
My understanding is that the city transmissions, as in my 2005 1.9 Tdi Transporter, were originally made by an independent supplier...and routinely die at about 100,000 ! Incidentally it seems the same box was in the early T5 petrol 2.0.
VW must have got onto this reasonably quick as they then changed to ZF to supply basically exactly the same gearbox which appears to be quite a reliable unit. I'm told that VW Aust has about 25 of these, just sitting on the shelf - waiting for the first series boxes to blow up.
Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this - just recording what I've been told for the benefit of any other poor sod who find themselves down this street.
We are now haggling with VW to try and get a half reasonable price for a new box - $5700 is rather big! I really think they should come to the party on this to remedy a problem caused entirely by a major component of most un VW like quality! :(

[Sunny43.5]

I can concurr the trannies in the 2.5 128 kw are also a troublesome beast and its an auto !! VW tell you its sealed for life and doesn,t need to have its fluid changed , bollocks as when ours played up VW,s answer ??? no we dont fix them we just replace the trannie $7500 plus for a van thats only done 100,000 kays . VW should be responsible when their products are proven to be unreliable in such short time . And before any one says well maybe you are too hard on the trannie this van is driven mainly by my wife and she is not a hoon. Howard

[Dubswin]

Aw, don't tell me that Howard, my brother's got one of those! :(

[Sunny43.5]

Lets be realistic I am not saying that all of them are a problem it seems that some of them are fine and others are playing up , as I have said before there is no way a manufactuer can predict how long the auto fluid will last . My experience from owning other brand cars with automatics is that regular servicing with new fluids are essential but VW have a different slant on this they seal the transmissions at the factory and claim that they don,t service them . Every single driver drives different to each other so a component like the tranny should be able to stand up to a multitude of situations ,and then there is the enviroment that we drive in . I bet the Germans didn,t bring these vans to Australia to test in the real world that we have to endure . Its fine in Europe where the majority of the time its cool enough not to cause degredation of the fluid but with our extreme summers etc I am sure it has a bearing on the fluids ability to cope . Howard

[Dubswin]

Yep, fair comment re our climatic extremes, I bet they don't get that. But then of course, there is the Dakaar...
Anyways, my new ZF gearbox arrived from VW today, all nicely boxed up. Just waiting for the clutch to show up now.
Just by the by, my mechanic tells me that a number of auto transmissions, previously classified as "sealed for life" are now starting to be classified as "serviceable", albeit with prices well into the upper teens $.
I suppose that is progress of sorts.

[DOUBLECAB]

Question Guys..................if one is looking at buying a T5................ how does one know if it has the 'crappy box' or the 'good one' ?

[Dubswin]

Good question...if it's built in 05 and hasn't had a new box yet, it's the crappy one. VW Aust should be able to tell you when the ZF box equipped vans started coming through. As would the codes, but I don't know what they are. My guess would be some time in 06. Cheers, Dubswin

[DOUBLECAB]

Ok.........so would this crappy box issue be relevant to a 2005 dual cab with a 128kw engine and a 6 speed box?

[Cousin]

doublecab, assume all the autos will give it up somewhere around 150,000 ks
Then look at the price of the van you may buy, add say $7,000 for a rebuild (I have heard they can be done for around $5,500 now) and see how the price looks then
If it's too high, haggle it down so including a rebuild in works ok price wise
I did that when I bought my 06 second hand
They guy was bleeding, but sold
6 months later, at around 150,000 ks the box sh*t itself
Now 'supposedly' the rebuilds will last longer, better valving etc (American instead of German, go figure!) so I'm hoping to get another 200,000 ks off this one


M

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Volkswagen Fan.... I'm talking a 6 speed manual box.................. not auto.

[Cousin]

Hi Volkswagen Fan.... I'm talking a 6 speed manual box.................. not auto.


:cuckoo:



Spose we can forget it then

And should have remembered I asked you that couple of pages back



M

[Dubswin]

Back to Doublecab's question...No, I've only been talking about the 4 cylinder 1.9 Tdi engine gearbox - and specifically vehicles fitted with the courier/city manual box as opposed to the far, far more common highway box (but hey that one may have it's problems too, I don't know). Cheers, Dubswin.

[DOUBLECAB]

Hi Cousin ...Volkswagen Fan ... I realise the thread started as the manual gearbox for the 1.9 Diesel but my question still stands.....is any of this applicable to a 6speed gear box in a 128kw diesel 2005 vintage.

[4wheels]

AFAIK there has only been one 6 speed manual in the 5 cyl diesels (I could easily be corrected). Given I was replacing a T3 syncro, which had the ultra-low 'G' gear, when I got my T5 4Motion, I was interested in (lower geared) alternatives, but didn't find any info about them then. Also,I don't think Trakka would go to considerable expense (more than I could afford at the time) to fit Siekel gears to brand new gear boxes for their "off-road pack" T5's, if they could have ordered lower gearing from the factory.

Brian R.

[Colinmc]

I have just had to replace the same gearbox on my 2005 t5 1.9. After a lot of searching we ended up having to go with VW to get a new one. It cost $4900, with a $2800 deposit to make sure we returned the old one. When I ask why they needed the old one I was told that it is VW's policy to recycle the metal from the boxes as all VW's cars require 20% recycle steel. this is why you would fine it hard to locate a reco one.
So I got my local VW guy to fit it only to find after it was fitted & filled with oil that it had a crack in the bottom, It then took 10 days to get a new one from overseas. I am now trying to get $800 out of VW for the removal of the damaged & refitting of the replacment.

[DOUBLECAB]

Ok Guys.....so the probs are all with the 2005 1.9DT 5 SPEED box not the 2005 6 Speed 2.5DT(128kw) box?????

[Colinmc]

All the problems I have found on the web all relate to the 1.9 5 speed @ just over 100000 km & most could of been caused by incorrect oil when new & the lack of a recall or service notice that has happened overseas.

[DOUBLECAB]

Thanks colinmc

[Sunny43.5]

I have just had to replace the same gearbox on my 2005 t5 1.9. After a lot of searching we ended up having to go with VW to get a new one. It cost $4900, with a $2800 deposit to make sure we returned the old one. When I ask why they needed the old one I was told that it is VW's policy to recycle the metal from the boxes as all VW's cars require 20% recycle steel. this is why you would fine it hard to locate a reco one.
So I got my local VW guy to fit it only to find after it was fitted & filled with oil that it had a crack in the bottom, It then took 10 days to get a new one from overseas. I am now trying to get $800 out of VW for the removal of the damaged & refitting of the replacment.
Seems to me that VW dont want owners to reco gear boxes this would be why they want the old ones back . I found that quite a few parts I have bought for my sons T4 were only sold on the basis that old ones were returned to get a deposit back , I dont know about you guys but when I replaced some parts for his van I would prefer to keep the old ones because as as far as I am concerned I own these old parts not VW !!!! if they want them back give us a 20% discount on the new ones and I will gladly hand them over , bloody highway robbery as far as I am concerned . Howard

[Dubswin]

Interested in Colinmc's account and I'm wondering if he can tell us the $ numbers please for the work done?

1) the $4800 quoted for the box - was that the full retail price or was it after a discount. If so, what was the full retail price quoted to you?

2) just clarifying - all the work was done by a VW dealer? And how much was the total bill including their labour and oils etc?

3) I'm not sure I understood the comment about the $2800 deposit. That didn't change the final price did it? You just meant that they wanted that amount up front? And did you end up surrendering your gearbox? What did you receive for it?

Cheers for that, Dubswin.

[Colinmc]

Dubswin

I made a lot of calls to dealers around the country to get pricing. The gearbox ranged from $7200 down to $4980 inc GST & delivery,which strangly for me was at my closest dealer ( Burwin Ferntreeguly ) I think that it said that it was a trade price on the invoice. The $2800 is a separate deposit to ensure the old gearbox is returned, however I did not need to pay this as we gave them the old gearbox when they delivered the new one.
Quotes for fitting the gearbox at VW dealers ranged from about $2600 to $1400 (by a country NSW dealer), so we found a local guy who specialised in German cars who quoted $900 for fitting the box. We also got clutch ($650),timing belt ($200) & water pump ($150) and full service. Total cost was $2600 parts & labour.
We also had the option of getting the box rebuilt for around $3000 however it would of meant taking it out, sending it to NSW, it would of taken about 10 days turnover and only offered a 6 month warranty where as the VW offers 2 Years.

I contacted VW Customer Service asking for $800 for the removal & refitting because of the faulty gearbox they supplied, but was told that I should of got it done at a VW dealer so there was nothing they could do & it was my "bad luck". I have sent the CEO an email however don't hold up much hope of hearing back.
My next step is to take them to VCAT .Consumer affairs have told me that it would be highly likely that I would get a ruling in my favour.

[Sunny43.5]

Let me get this straight you purchased a gear box from VW which was faulty and they are not going to pay for labour costs because you had some one else fit it . Go get the mongrels they need to be taken down a peg or two , how do they get away with this sort of thing . I know when I questioned VWA about the deposit issue they just fobbed me off without any sort of explanation , in actual fact the person who I spoke to was useless and told me to ring back another day so they could have time to check with someone else within VWA
needless to say I gave up it seems that once they have your money thats it . Howard

[Dubswin]

Thanks for your very detailed response Colinmc, much appreciated.
I didn't get any other quotes, just left the job to my local European specialist mechanic as I have grown to trust his experience and his honesty. I paid $7500 all up including a new clutch. We did the timing belt a few months ago.

I am left feeling very angry with VW about all this and feel compelled to do something about it. The company trades very heavily on it's image of being a premium quality manufacturer - and yet, reading through the various posts in the WC van forum, it is abundantly clear to me that the transmissions in these vehicles are rubbish...especially in this particular model.

The hide of VW...recalling this model in Europe but doing nothing in Australia...just leaving owners to contend with the mind numbing cost of the repairs.

Our 1.9 Tdi had clocked only 116,000 klms when the gearbox disintegrated. To make matters worse, this vehicle has NEVER done any work at all. It leads a blissful life as a private car, mostly conveying only the driver on a leisurely 35 klm highway commute and just some local running around on the weekend. It has never carried loads of any consequence whatsoever and has never towed anything.

Not happy Jan!

[Sunny43.5]

Have you any details about the recall in Europe ? Howard

[Dubswin]

I'll ask Colinmc to answer that one please. He made the comment in the previous page about the Europe recall.

At this stage, I'm pondering the logistics of mustering as many disgruntled owners as possible with dud (or repaired/replaced) transmissions for some sort of class action against VW. Is that a silly idea? cheers, Dubswin.

[Sunny43.5]

Count me in , Howard

[Colinmc]

"Recall in Europe"

I have tried to find the page that was talking about it but haven't been able to find it again, it was on a German forum & was translated by Google so it is hard to search for. However there are many references on the web to a service bulletin telling dealers to change the oil in the VW gear boxes because of the wrong oil.
Perhaps somebody who has access to the VW service system could check this.

[Dubswin]

Thanks Colinmc - do you have any idea approx when those service bulletins were issued? cheers, Dubswin.

[DOUBLECAB]

Ok Guys I'm back................... all your info on the 2005 1.9 DT 5 speed box put me off the 2005 model.............. so now a 2006 1.9DT 5 speed has surfaced........................would this unit be over all the 2005 issues or does the 2006 also have issues?

Thanks..........again

[Dubswin]

Hmm, that's a difficult one. My understanding is that at some point VW realized the 1.9 gearbox was a lemon (at least, the city box if not in fact the highway box as well) and arranged for ZF to take over the production of them to get them right. Very likely it was late 05 to early 06 as the first high klm T5 boxes would have started expiring by then. You could ask VW I suppose but would you get a straight answer? Anyone else have any ideas on this? Cheers, Dubswin.