Petrol in diesel tank = $$$$s

[Johnnojack]

A friend recently put 60 litres of petrol in his diesel Passat. Realizing his mistake he did not even start the vehicle. However despite the best efforts of he and a couple of his mates they could not remove the petrol and it had to be taken to the VW dealer. Cost $800
Has anyone been able to get the fuel out of their VW (Passat, Golf etc)? A bung in the fuel tank sounds like a good idea but alas there is none. What the cost would have been if he had done it at Oodnadatta. Punch a hole in tank with nail and plug up with green stick? Fix later? Any ideas?

[Transporter]

If there is no drain plug, then removing the tank for cleaning is a better option than punching the hole. :)

[Russ59]

He should think himself very lucky that he didn't start it, having to shell out $800 to rectify the mistake is an expensive error but he'd have needed a bank loan to pay for the repairs if he'd turned the key :facepalm:

A quick google search shows that most newer fuel tanks do not have drain plugs, apparently for safety reasons :happy:

[Preen59]

Last time we had to do that on a customer car (Caddy 1.9TDI), I removed the glow plug leads and used the primer pump to empty the tank @ the fuel filter end. Took about 10-15mins.

[brad]

On another forum I mod at, one of the guys mates (mothers, sister, boyfriend) put petrol in his V8 twin turbo Audi Q7. Drove it home 1.2km from the service station & reckons it was "just running a bit rough". The repair bill was ~$18k IIRC

[Johnnojack]

Last time we had to do that on a customer car (Caddy 1.9TDI), I removed the glow plug leads and used the primer pump to empty the tank @ the fuel filter end. Took about 10-15mins.

They did disconnect the hoses at the filter but could neither suck no blow through them ( I said that they wouldn't be able to do that anyway as there would be too much resistance.) So where is the primer pump? Is it at the tank end? and how did you get it to work without the motor running?

[Transporter]

The pump is in the tank and you can connect 12V to it to pump the fuel out (if the pump is not compatible with petrol it will suffer the damage), but there still will be some petrol left in, and TBH, if it was mine I would remove/rinse the tank and change the fuel filter.

[davidno64]

Easiest way, if no drain plug.
Make up a pipe, say 6 to 10 mm and connect it to a low pressure fuel pump,
Stick the hose down the filler tube. Connect a battery and expell all the petrol.

As long as car has not been started. Then fill up with full tank of diesel. This
will dilute the mix and you should be safe to drive. Risk is minimal, but cannot
stress enough, the diluted mix left must be week. So all (almost all) petrol must
be pumped out. Make the diluted mix as week as possible with as much diesel as
possible.

I had this happen with my old Merc, 108 CDI and no issues. But bear in mind,
in this moden day of liitergation. Do at you own risk. If you get a serge of neat petrol
damage can occour. A blend of petrol, too stong can damage seals and cause
over-revving. So its better to avoid issue all together.

But a small amount of petrol in the mix, will boost performance of the diesel
motor, just as methanol does.

Better still, dont do it!

[Preen59]

They did disconnect the hoses at the filter but could neither suck no blow through them ( I said that they wouldn't be able to do that anyway as there would be too much resistance.) So where is the primer pump? Is it at the tank end? and how did you get it to work without the motor running?


The pump is in the tank and you can connect 12V to it to pump the fuel out (if the pump is not compatible with petrol it will suffer the damage), but there still will be some petrol left in, and TBH, if it was mine I would remove/rinse the tank and change the fuel filter.

What Transporter said. We actually just used to ignition and switched on/off/on/off/on/off.. I nearly fell asleep, but it worked.

After that, sucked the petrol out of the filter canister, replaced the fuel filter. Filled the tank to the brim with diesel and primed it another 20 times or so to get the fuel thru the lines and the petrol out. Then reconnected the fuel line to the filter, primed the filter and reconnected the glow plugs (The glow plugs seemed to be on the same relay so we disconnected them in order to not damage them).

Kicked it in the guts and after about 3-4 seconds winding over it fired to life and ran no problems. That was about 12 months ago and no problems since. The van has only come back to the old man's workshop for servicing. :)

[Greg Roles]

I'd punch a hole, but that's me.

[neil]

Had a bloke at work fill the diesel tank with adblue.
adblue tank 65 litres, diesel tank 400 litres.
adblue stickers are now riveted on so the bus wash brushes don't rip them off.

[bisy]

We had someone at a servo fill our mark v TDI weth unleaded I drove off it started to run rough then cut out had it towed back to dealership the cost was $240.00 to fix it. The tow truck driver said it would cost thousands to fix that was 80,000km ago still running great

[wai]

Guys and Gals,

Just get a diesel mis-fuelling device that replaces the fuel cap and prevents a ULP nozzle from entering the tank.

They can be obtained from the RACQ and RAA SA. They cost around $60 for members ($70 for nom-members) plus P&H. Cheap insurance even at the non-members price.

Oh yes. I contacted RACQ and they said that members of other motoring groups around the country with whom they have reciprocal member arrangements can purchase the item and get the same benefit as RACQ members.

Just go through the sheet which identifies which type to get.

I take delivery of my new Caddy Maxi Life on Tuesday. If there is no mis-fuelling device already fitted, I will be ordering one from RACQ.

[wai]

We had someone at a servo fill our mark v TDI weth unleaded I drove off it started to run rough then cut out had it towed back to dealership the cost was $240.00 to fix it. The tow truck driver said it would cost thousands to fix that was 80,000km ago still running great
This is why you need one of these mis-fuelling devices. You might be diligent, but you are not always the one who fills the tank.

[dieselmaker]

No risk of anyone else filling your vehicle, except another driver, if you live in Qld. Don't think I have ever had a servo staff member offer to fill anything for me in 10 years!!

Although true, it is still up to the driver to keep an eye on what is going into his tank.

[popeclement]

I think this is an excellent suggestion - I ended up removing the two 'caps' to my diesel Xtrail 'saddle tanks and siphoning the mix out - it also gave me an opportunity to blow the lines out with compressed air, replace the filter and restart.

I think the Q7 owner got 'ripped off'. I did end up having to rebuild the HPFP but I did drive over 100ks on a 50/50 mix = cost under $1k at a Bosch specialist. Have done nearly 10,000ks since will no other issues.

[Diesel_vert]

I think this is an excellent suggestion - I ended up removing the two 'caps' to my diesel Xtrail 'saddle tanks and siphoning the mix out - it also gave me an opportunity to blow the lines out with compressed air, replace the filter and restart.

I think the Q7 owner got 'ripped off'. I did end up having to rebuild the HPFP but I did drive over 100ks on a 50/50 mix = cost under $1k at a Bosch specialist. Have done nearly 10,000ks since will no other issues.

$18k for a new V8 engine + ancillaries + labour from Audi isn't that surprising - assuming the whole engine + ancillaries did indeed need replacing and the dealer wasn't taking them for the financial ride of his life...

[buzuki]

its the HPFP that suffers the most, once fuel goes in it destroys it which in turn sends all metal filings throughout the fuel system. So everything gets replaced if its been ran and the pump has been destroyed.

[popeclement]

its the HPFP that suffers the most, once fuel goes in it destroys it which in turn sends all metal filings throughout the fuel system. So everything gets replaced if its been ran and the pump has been destroyed.

I'm not sure about your comment about the metal filings throughout the fuel system. Basically the HPFP seals are damaged to the point that it cannot sustain the enormously high delivery pressure to the common rail/injectors. When I removed my rail, I did not notice any metal or other contamination & did not do any remedial work to this area.

I have had two other friends with quotes of 12k (Transporter) & 15k (Mercedes Vito) for the fuel delivery system and injectors which in itself is not excessive given that the repair agents are being conservative and replacing the lot.

I just think the HPFP should be repaired/exchanged first for around the 2-3k mark with labour and then the system re-evaluated. Both my friends use their vehicles for commercial daily high mileage use and elected not to incur the quoted expense and simply clean/flush and exchange the HPFP & like me, have had no issues since.

[wai]

No risk of anyone else filling your vehicle, except another driver, if you live in Qld. Don't think I have ever had a servo staff member offer to fill anything for me in 10 years!!

Although true, it is still up to the driver to keep an eye on what is going into his tank.

The problem is that if you have been used to using petrol only, depending on circumstances, it is all too easy to forget and end up using petrol instead. It just takes a moment's distraction and you can be in trouble.

[Johnnojack]

The problem is that if you have been used to using petrol only, depending on circumstances, it is all too easy to forget and end up using petrol instead. It just takes a moment's distraction and you can be in trouble.Here's an idea: Take a rubber ball, smaller than tennis ball. Make a hole right through it, thread on 200mm of strong cord, knotted at one end, write diesel only on ball with permanent Texta. Tie cord to the hinge inside your fuel flap. Every time you open the fuel flap this ball appears next to the filler, jerking you back to reality and reminding you and anyone else just what you are doing. Finish refuelling WITH DIESEL put ball back inside flap and shut. Ball size may need to be adjusted to space available. Works with all size filler nozzles.

[wai]

You can do a whole series of things, but the reality is that unless there is some physical limiter to doing the wrong thing, you will end up making a mistake.

[jamesatfish]

You can do a whole series of things, but the reality is that unless there is some physical limiter to doing the wrong thing, you will end up making a mistake.

That's the problem - it doesn't matter what stickers / signs / tennis ball contraptions you install, once people get into a groove they ignore all that anyway.

One of my employees filled her work Golf TDI with petrol, and made it as far as the petrol station driveway before the car died. We have Shell fuel cards and she was used to just filling with the Black pump at Shell servos, so when for some reason she decided to fill at a different brand servo she just picked up the Black pump and filled up. Sadly Black at that servo was regular unleaded.

Made no sense as a) she'd have had to pay for the petrol out of her own money as we didn't have an account at that servo, and b) there is a Shell about 500m up the road.

Thankfully the repair bill wasn't all that bad.

[wai]

I am just watching a program on how easily we are distracted and how poor our attention really is. It comes down to what we are really thinking about when we do something. No matter what we think we are thinking about, we may not actually have our attention on what we believe we have it on. Interesting thing about multi-tasking and how poor we actually are. Interestingly, those who believe they are are perfect at multi-tasking turn out to be some of the poorest at multi-tasking.

When ULP first came on the market, it was seen as absolutely necessary that the fuel nozzle was different and it was not possible to insert a leaded fuel nozzle into the filler of a vehicle requiring ULP. Exactly the same reasoning applies here, yet people believe they don't need it. The thing is that it costs much more than a new catalytic converter to repair damage to a diesel engine that has been run on petrol.

In the end, it is a choice, and with the choice come consequences. Hopefully they won't be too expensive.

[volksMuller]

You can trigger the fuel pump via VAS PC and pump out at filter end...much easier...the dealer has charged way too much for this task.....in cold climates VW suggest adding a very small amount of petrol to a diesel fuel tank. We use Luqui Moly fuel cleaner once the tank is drained and refilled correctly......Insurance compamies are NOW working on writting out the wrong fuel added policy so be careful this will be a expensive exercise once the car has been driven a number of k's on the wrong fuel.

[Johnnojack]

That's the problem - it doesn't matter what stickers / signs / tennis ball contraptions you install, once people get into a groove they ignore all that any
I agree about the stickers, words on cap etc. However finding a brightly coloured ball dangling next to the filler cap would for most people be quite unexpected and oddball (pardon the pun) so would be likely to bring a dreamer quickly back to reality. Like "WTF! Oh yeah diesel"
Both people I know who filled their cars with petrol had owned their diesel for a year or more but at the time of their mistake had a lot on their mind.
Volksmuller excuse my ignorance but can you explain VAS PC? Not something that can be found by the spare wheel I expect. Can you also empty tank by turning ignition on and off repeatedly?(wearing out switch)

[wai]

Insurance compamies are NOW working on writting out the wrong fuel added policy so be careful this will be a expensive exercise once the car has been driven a number of k's on the wrong fuel.

I have no doubt that insurers will write out operating the vehicle on the wrong fuel. After all, they do everything to minimise their risk.

On running a vehicle on the wrong fuel for a few k's, you can cause thousands of dollars damage to a diesel by trying to run it on petrol even just TRYING to drive it out of the service station. A friend of mine ended up having to pay over $3,000 and he barely made it 10 metres from the pump.

[Guest001]

Its worse when like me you have one petrol and one diesel.

Have to be on your game or disaster will strike.

So far so good for 2 1/2 years LOL.

[gldgti]

Why wouldnt you use one of those handy engine oil extractors to get the fuel out of the tank? They are quite good gadgets I hear.

Anyway, I can certainly believe some people will do the wrong thing if they can. My boss is notoriously easily distracted. I think even if the petrol nozzle would not fit into the diesel filler, he would figure out a way to get the fuel in there somehow before he realised he was just using the wrong thing :-)

[njg02]

I recently put 30l in my '05 Touareg. Ran fine and so far no issues. It was hard to start but I filled up every 100kays or so while on a weekend away. It's not common rail like my Polo, which I wouldn't have started.
We are only human and sometimes in our excitement about holidays or whatever we forget some basic things.

[kaanage]

So should they make the nozzles for 95 and 98 octane bowsers incompatible with regular 92?
And E85 different again?

[gldgti]

one thing i dont get though... surely everyone used to using a petrol pump ISNT used to unhooking the diesel pump from under its metal flap on the bowser that says 'warning diesel' on it. You have to do a different 'action' to actually get it off.... isnt that enough? obviously not I guess.

[wai]

Not all diesel nozzles have the additional catch to release it from the bowser. The Woolworths Caltex diesel ones do have the catch, however the Caltex ones (no Woolworths link) do not (e.g. the Lavington Caltex heading north to Sydney). They are exactly the same as the petrol nozzles. There is a "slight" difference in that the nozzle is removed from an "edge" of the bowser, however not everyone will notice this.

Mis-fueling preventers are there for when you are distracted or have something else on your mind. In the end it is a choice. People can choose to fit one or not. It is much like buying insurance for "peace of mind". The difference here being that for a relatively small cost you are prevented from doing the wrong thing. Of course you can bypass it, however you are unlikely to bypass it by accident, whereas you can accidentally put the wrong fuel in without one.

[maelgwn]

Guys and Gals,

Just get a diesel mis-fuelling device that replaces the fuel cap and prevents a ULP nozzle from entering the tank.

They can be obtained from the RACQ and RAA SA. They cost around $60 for members ($70 for nom-members) plus P&H. Cheap insurance even at the non-members price.

Oh yes. I contacted RACQ and they said that members of other motoring groups around the country with whom they have reciprocal member arrangements can purchase the item and get the same benefit as RACQ members.



Tried the Caparo RightFuel device (same as the RAA sells ...) and it doesn't fit my MK5 golf - sticks out too far to let the flap on the outside close :( - Dissapointed as their website says it is ok. Going to send it back (unless someone in Adelaide wants it...)

[wai]

Tried the Caparo RightFuel device (same as the RAA sells ...) and it doesn't fit my MK5 golf - sticks out too far to let the flap on the outside close :( - Dissapointed as their website says it is ok. Going to send it back (unless someone in Adelaide wants it...)

I originally bought a Caparo unit but then bought a Diesel Key unit. It does not protrude as far. The Diesel Key is a bit more expensive.

Now, if anyone is looking at one, the Caparo will fit a Caddy without causing any problems with the flap.

If you want to look at a Diesel Key, talk to them and see if they will send it on approval. I know they did for me.

You can search for Diesel Key to see where to get one.

[jwaller]

Ya dude. Once at a friend's marriage day, my cousin got drunk and did the same. He drove it back as well to the apartment ( 100m away). When he woke up and saw the receipt the next day it was then he realized his blunder. Any way the climax was that i had to unplug the fuel pipe from underneath the car as well as from the engine. Drained every bit of diesel ( used it in my car) and then poured an extra 2 litres mayb just to wash the tank. Time taking but for sure saved my $800.

[bluey]

Its worse when like me you have one petrol and one diesel.

Have to be on your game or disaster will strike.

So far so good for 2 1/2 years LOL.

I consider the risk too high. Easier to make a clean break to diesel - all or nothing.

[Guest001]

I consider the risk too high. Easier to make a clean break to diesel - all or nothing.

Not a good idea going diesel in the Polo who's longest trip is about 40ks once a month and usually about 12k once a week to do the shopping. DPF would be stuffed in a short time.

Easier just to let the wife fill it up as she doesn't drive the diesel LOL

[bluey]

Not a good idea going diesel in the Polo who's longest trip is about 40ks once a month and usually about 12k once a week to do the shopping. DPF would be stuffed in a short time.

At this point, I am not clear how rapidly a DPF will clog up using the recommended fuel. All VAG engines with DPF I have looked at specify diesel fuel CN51. Almost no off the pump diesel fuel in Australia is specified to minimum CN51. The original formula BP Ultimate did have a cetane improver and a higher cetane number until about 2010 when BP deleted it. On Transporter's original suggestion, I have been using Morey's Diesel Smoke Killer. The difference is visible out the tailpipe in our short trip non-DPF Polo.

So a big part of the DPF clogging problem I believe is due to using lower cetane diesel than recommended by VAG. The stupid part is that VAG doesn't highlight this problem - presumably because of "Marketing" perceptions. VAG wears the cost of any warranty DPF failures. It would be interesting to see this one go to court one day, which it will when someone gets a big bill for a DPF replacement just outside the warranty period.

I think 12-40km would be enough for the exhaust system to be well warmed up anyway.

[Transporter]

I can say that those who are aware of the DPF in their cars and understand that they have to use the diesel with the highest CN number and even use the fuel additive should get the predicted life from the DPF. Assuming they also use correct engine oil and change it as they should.

Our 2 TDI Tiguans are doing well despite short trips. The 2012 model does 7km in the morning and 7km back in the afternoon with one 20km trip from the city to south and it's enough for the DPF to regenerate. The fuel is BP with the fuel additive at the correct ratio.

As the time goes, we will probably find that the once problematic DPF doesn't cause problems any more. Just like in the old days when the catalytic converters made its way into our cars.

What is also getting more sophisticated is the ECU monitoring much closely the way you drive your car, so when it goes to the court the manufacturers will have very reliable data to use.