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Zoza
07-06-2011, 12:07 PM
Hi all,

my R has done just over 4000kms and its about 4 months old.

My question is whether I should be looking at changing the oil around the 5k mark or wait and do it at first service interval ~ 12 months.

Another question is whether I should book it in for service to do the oil change or do it myself? (I am quite capable of doing it myself just not sure warranty issues and such).

Diesel_vert
07-06-2011, 06:42 PM
Hi all,

my R has done just over 4000kms and its about 4 months old.

My question is whether I should be looking at changing the oil around the 5k mark or wait and do it at first service interval ~ 12 months.

Should you wish to change it early, every 6 months or 7,500 km (whichever you reach first) will be sufficient. No need to change it every 5,000 km.

Otherwise, oil change intervals are normally every 12 months or 15k.


Another question is whether I should book it in for service to do the oil change or do it myself? (I am quite capable of doing it myself just not sure warranty issues and such).

Definitely DIY if possible.

Regarding warranty, as long you use genuine parts and any VW approved 502.00 oil (minimum) or 504.00 oil (preferred), you should be fine.

dave_r
09-06-2011, 10:58 AM
It is interesting that a lot of VW dealers tell customers to piss off when asking about the oil change before 15k. I'm just past half way and have driven it hard and done a track day, the oil must be rubbish by now let alone at 15k.

Audi do the same fwiw, a mate with an RS after doing multiple track days was told they wouldn't do it otherwise it would effect warranty...wtf?

zbeasty
09-06-2011, 11:21 AM
Check out the last couple of pages of the run in thread in the MK6 forum. There appears to be fresh information from a VW Service person that indicates that they use a different oil for the run in period up to 15,000km and that it can affect warranty if this is changed early.

brad
09-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Another question is whether I should book it in for service to do the oil change or do it myself? (I am quite capable of doing it myself just not sure warranty issues and such).

Any work needs to be undertaken by "suitably qualified personell". If you fit that description (eg: have an MVRIC ticket in mechanics), then go for it.

Transporter
09-06-2011, 02:04 PM
Check out the last couple of pages of the run in thread in the MK6 forum. There appears to be fresh information from a VW Service person that indicates that they use a difference oil for the run in period up to 15,000km and that it can affect warranty if this is changed early.

If only one could trust it!

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

brad
09-06-2011, 02:20 PM
If only one could trust it!
True but unfortunately a poor technician with suitable pieces of wallpaper will trump a good backyarder if you are arguing warranty items in the small claims tribunal.

Transporter
09-06-2011, 03:42 PM
True but unfortunately a poor technician with suitable pieces of wallpaper will trump a good backyarder if you are arguing warranty items in the small claims tribunal.

Oh brad, I thought that you know me better than that. :) That was response to zbesty's post. Somehow my phone didn't insert the quote, despite I saw it on the screen. :? All fixed now.

Zoza
09-06-2011, 04:56 PM
Check out the last couple of pages of the run in thread in the MK6 forum. There appears to be fresh information from a VW Service person that indicates that they use a different oil for the run in period up to 15,000km and that it can affect warranty if this is changed early.

Yeah, I don't know about this... I've heard this claim before (when the missus bought an '02 Beetle).

Lets look at it this way... If this were true, then why is it that when you ask for top up oil within the first 15k, any VW dealer would recommend the standard 504.00/507.00 compliant oils.

If they used a special oil, then surely any top up in the first 15k should be done only with this special oil?

Diesel_vert
09-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Any work needs to be undertaken by "suitably qualified personell". If you fit that description (eg: have an MVRIC ticket in mechanics), then go for it.

One should be sufficiently competent to ensure that any work done to the car by the owner during the warranty period should be inconspicuous to the dealer or VW or whoever.

In the instance that a warranty claim is denied due to incompetent work done by the owner, well clearly, what else should one expect?



Yeah, I don't know about this... I've heard this claim before (when the missus bought an '02 Beetle).

Lets look at it this way... If this were true, then why is it that when you ask for top up oil within the first 15k, any VW dealer would recommend the standard 504.00/507.00 compliant oils.

If they used a special oil, then surely any top up in the first 15k should be done only with this special oil?

Heh, the mystery continues... :D

johnw
09-06-2011, 07:57 PM
Just out of interest, for voiding warranty, how on earth would VW tell if the oil was changed and by who if you used genuine VW filter and oil (ie bought from dealer). Unless they used a different "marked" filters in the workshop?!

Worse comes to worse and you can't get the same filter, change just the oil.

Never had this problem as I only buy secondhand :-P

Posted using Tapatalk

Transporter
09-06-2011, 07:59 PM
Heh, the mystery continues... :D

...or, he could be an ideal candidate to have a proper UOA done, not the $36 one. :grin:

Shame really that he is not in SA, I would make a trip and get the oil tested but at 15,000km, since the VW persist with 15k km oil change. ;)

But really, I mean, ... the man or women you talk to at the service desk and who is giving you an expert advice, doesn't even have to be a trained mechanic?

Diesel_vert
09-06-2011, 08:01 PM
Just out of interest, for voiding warranty, how on earth would VW tell if the oil was changed and by who if you used genuine VW filter and oil (ie bought from dealer). Unless they used a different "marked" filters in the workshop?!

Precisely.

In any case, the warranty won't be void changing the oil prior - such an absurd idea.

Transporter
09-06-2011, 08:18 PM
Just out of interest, for voiding warranty, how on earth would VW tell if the oil was changed and by who if you used genuine VW filter and oil (ie bought from dealer). Unless they used a different "marked" filters in the workshop?!

Worse comes to worse and you can't get the same filter, change just the oil.

Never had this problem as I only buy secondhand :-P

Posted using Tapatalk

Yep, and use the oil extractor to suck the oil out, so they can't tell from the drain plug that the oil was drained, and since they put it in writing to us and to whole world to see that the engine can use up to 1L per 1500km, I hate their chances to prove that the oil was changed earlier. :grin:

Corey_R
09-06-2011, 08:35 PM
Those oil extractors are cool :)

johnw
09-06-2011, 09:15 PM
Those oil extractors are cool :)

They suck, literally :P

Do dealers use them? I never really understood why they're used. From my limit backyard oil change experiences, it's the filter removal that causes a mess.

Transporter
09-06-2011, 10:10 PM
The oil filter is positioned on the top for the reason that the oil change can be performed from the top, so yes, I would say that they used them. I prefer to drain it and use the extractor to suck out the remaining oil from the oil filter housing in my TDI's. Another reason why you want to drain the oil rather than suck it out is that, you can visually check the engine from under the neath.

brad
10-06-2011, 12:01 PM
...But really, I mean, ... the man or women you talk to at the service desk and who is giving you an expert advice, doesn't even have to be a trained mechanic?
No, not these days. It appears the main qualification is to be able to add all the big numbers on the invoice, repeat the same thing over & over again & cop the abuse for the shoddy work of the apprentices. :-)

Transporter
11-06-2011, 08:57 PM
No, not these days. It appears the main qualification is to be able to add all the big numbers on the invoice, repeat the same thing over & over again & cop the abuse for the shoddy work of the apprentices. :-)

Maybe you've just been lucky or others unlucky, but there are some signs in the forum (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f136/60-000-k-service-ouch-59728.html#post678055) that indicate, that I might be right. :grin:

dave_r
14-06-2011, 12:56 PM
Anyway back on topic sorta.... Got access to a hoist so doing an oil change myself (done around 9k) isn't too bad of an idea and not a hard job.

Will pickup a genuine filter from parts, not sure what oil I'll use yet but will price up what my dealer uses (Castrol something). I know on my last car I had to replace the sump plug washer. What is the go with the R? Is there anything specific I need to know about these, done my own cars before.

Transporter
14-06-2011, 01:03 PM
The sump plug washer is made of steel and I have the original one after almost 90,000km in my T5 and it was out probably 15 times. :eek:

It's good idea to get the oil from the dealer, but you can get Liqui Moly for less.

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f24/magnetic-sump-plugs-59660.html#post676882 :)

dave_r
14-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Never heard of that Liqui Moly stuff. Easy to buy online, will have to double check my manual for required quantity before ordering from motoractive unless there is a forum sponsor that sells it?

Will grab a filter and oem plug (if price is negligible) from the dealer. Your one looks bloody long hehe, good idea though.

Transporter
15-06-2011, 09:00 AM
Never heard of that Liqui Moly stuff. Easy to buy online, will have to double check my manual for required quantity before ordering from motoractive unless there is a forum sponsor that sells it?

Will grab a filter and oem plug (if price is negligible) from the dealer. Your one looks bloody long hehe, good idea though.


Sure is, it should be less than $5.00; mine, is the OEM modified and it fits most late VAG cars. Only Touareg sump plug is different but I can make it in the lathe.

dave_r
15-06-2011, 09:18 AM
Appreciate the help mate

Zoza
15-06-2011, 02:21 PM
Although the dealer uses Castrol BLAH BLAH Longlife III, I popped into Repco and got myself Penrite Enviro+ 5W-30 Fully Synthetic.

Approved by VW and its 504.00/507.00 compliant. 5L tub for $87 :(

Corey_R
15-06-2011, 02:27 PM
The Liqui-Moly is cheaper than that...

Not that i'm a brand snob :)

Zoza
15-06-2011, 04:32 PM
The Liqui-Moly is cheaper than that...

Not that i'm a brand snob :)

Liqui-Moly is a brand of oil?! Wow, you do learn something new every day.

Thing is, Liqui-Moly doesn't have the right sounding name to be associated with a performance car...

Sounds like something you would put in your i30 or Yaris :)

johnw
15-06-2011, 04:39 PM
The Liqui-Moly is cheaper than that...

Not that i'm a brand snob :)

Sounds like something Austin Powers said in Gold Member....Liqui-Moly...Mole...Moooooly :P

Isn't that a German engine additive company? Saw it in supercheap.

Diesel_vert
15-06-2011, 04:46 PM
Liqui-Moly is a brand of oil?! Wow, you do learn something new every day.

Thing is, Liqui-Moly doesn't have the right sounding name to be associated with a performance car...

Sounds like something you would put in your i30 or Yaris :)


Isn't that a German engine additive company? Saw it in supercheap.

Yep, Liqui Moly is a German manufacturer of automotive lubricants, additives and chemicals. If your car could talk, it'd tell you it's a fairly popular brand back home. Only recently has the company started to sell it's range of motor oils here though.

Zoza
15-06-2011, 05:03 PM
I just spoke to a Land Rover service centre regarding oil top up in my diesel Freelander 2 and the service guy said something that got me thinking...

"You are not supposed to mix different brands of oil"

Now this would apply to all cars. Since VW uses Castrol Longlife III, can I use Penrite Enviro+ as top up?

I mean both are approved by VW which means they must share the common ingredients required for the car, therefore mixing them shouldn't really be an issue?

Also, from service to service, with oil top-ups being required every few thousand k's, wouldn't you engine end up containing most of the top up oil anyways?

Diesel_vert
15-06-2011, 05:35 PM
I just spoke to a Land Rover service centre regarding oil top up in my diesel Freelander 2 and the service guy said something that got me thinking...

"You are not supposed to mix different brands of oil"

Now this would apply to all cars.

You can mix different brands of oil, but it isn't best practice. IMO the chances of automotive lubricants being incompatible with one another are possible, but remote.


Since VW uses Castrol Longlife III, can I use Penrite Enviro+ as top up?

You should only use 502 or preferably 504 oils for top-ups - for reasons of performance and warranty, rather than the remote possibility of any chemical incompatibility.


I mean both are approved by VW... therefore mixing them shouldn't really be an issue?

Correct (see previous response).


Also, from service to service, with oil top-ups being required every few thousand k's, wouldn't you engine end up containing most of the top up oil anyways?

Correct, though if the engine is burning so much oil that ends up being the case, I'd say one has bigger problems to deal with.

dave_r
22-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Yep, Liqui Moly is a German manufacturer of automotive lubricants, additives and chemicals. If your car could talk, it'd tell you it's a fairly popular brand back home. Only recently has the company started to sell it's range of motor oils here though.
I haven't done my change yet but I picked mine up at the local Autobarn. Cost the same as the online place in Sydney but at least you can get it without any trouble. I'm sure if they had a sale you'd be able to save a bit of cash.

Diesel_vert
22-06-2011, 05:04 PM
I haven't done my change yet but I picked mine up at the local Autobarn. Cost the same as the online place in Sydney but at least you can get it without any trouble. I'm sure if they had a sale you'd be able to save a bit of cash.

Nice find. :)

dave_r
22-06-2011, 08:46 PM
Nice find. :)
The bloke in the store said they've carried for a little while now and its been fairly popular so wouldn't be surprised if quite a few of the stores stock it.

DreamensioN
15-09-2011, 11:31 AM
Ok so...going all the way back to the first post on the first page.....

...What's the deal with changing oil mid-interval? I too am a believer that the first batch of oil in an engine should be dumped out. Lots of engine parts bedding in...lots of metal rubbing and filing down. Where does that go?....into the oil. Sure the oil filter gets most of it - but then the oil filter would be "clogged" up with this stuff.

Surely it can't hurt and engine to have fresh oil in it. And I don't buy this "we put a special oil in from the factory" nonsense - it's a normal oil. And they just use Castrol beacuse that's probably who they have a contract with. Just like how Ferrari uses Shell. It's not because Shell oil is superior - it's because they're a sponser.

So oil change at 7500km - yes or no? And why DO VW dealers tell you to get lost if you ask for it? Seriously. Like...don't they MAKE money if I take my car in for an $200 oil change?

Diesel_vert
15-09-2011, 07:32 PM
I too am a believer that the first batch of oil in an engine should be dumped out. Lots of engine parts bedding in...lots of metal rubbing and filing down. Where does that go?....into the oil. Sure the oil filter gets most of it - but then the oil filter would be "clogged" up with this stuff. Surely it can't hurt and engine to have fresh oil in it.

There's lots of information on the internet on oil changes, wear particles, etc, etc. You can draw lots of conclusions from collective analysis, but the long term benefits of a very early oil change haven't really been made conclusively clear (to me anyway), or such studies are difficult to find in the public domain.

If it was absolutely mission-critical to the engine's operational capability, perhaps they would've mentioned it in the owner's manual (or am I being too hopeful?) Not that there'd be any point mind you, since it appears that 95% of owners don't even read it anyway...

Many people do it, but many more don't. At the moment, I personally think it has a very small impact on the overall life of the engine.


TL;DR - Can't hurt, assumption is that it's beneficial, but actual long term impact is unknown (or data/proof is unavailable) to us plebs.


I don't buy this "we put a special oil in from the factory" nonsense - it's a normal oil.

No one other than the VW engineers in Germany know for sure. However, given that this is the internet, a lot people have nonetheless made their own conclusion. So here's mine - I personally think the first-fill oil is not too dissimilar to any 504/507 oil that you can buy from the shops.


And they just use Castrol because that's probably who they have a contract with. Just like how Ferrari uses Shell. It's not because Shell oil is superior - it's because they're a sponsor.

It certainly wouldn't be out of the question that they'd have contracts with numerous suppliers (e.g. Fuchs is a very common OEM supplier to German manufacturers), though not all of them would be advertised as broadly as they have done with Castrol.


So oil change at 7500km - yes or no?

Depends on what conditions the vehicle is operated in, how it's operated, and the quality of the lubricant.

E.g. Highway usage at legal speeds in mild conditions would favour longer oil change intervals (OCI). On the other hand, constant start-stop or city/suburbia journeys, constant use of full throttle, extreme conditions (hot or cold), or where the majority of trips are done where the oil doesn't get up to temperature, would all favour a shorter OCI. A high quality lubricant could increase the OCI all round, whereas a lower quality lubricant would limit it.


And why DO VW dealers tell you to get lost if you ask for it? Seriously. Like...don't they MAKE money if I take my car in for an $200 oil change?

Lol, no idea. Just go somewhere else.

Transporter
15-09-2011, 08:01 PM
Ok so...going all the way back to the first post on the first page.....

...What's the deal with changing oil mid-interval? I too am a believer that the first batch of oil in an engine should be dumped out. Lots of engine parts bedding in...lots of metal rubbing and filing down. Where does that go?....into the oil. Sure the oil filter gets most of it - but then the oil filter would be "clogged" up with this stuff.

Surely it can't hurt and engine to have fresh oil in it. And I don't buy this "we put a special oil in from the factory" nonsense - it's a normal oil. And they just use Castrol beacuse that's probably who they have a contract with. Just like how Ferrari uses Shell. It's not because Shell oil is superior - it's because they're a sponser.

So oil change at 7500km - yes or no? And why DO VW dealers tell you to get lost if you ask for it? Seriously. Like...don't they MAKE money if I take my car in for an $200 oil change?

LOL, our Tiguan hit 10,000km and got its 3rd oil and filter change today. The first one was at 1000km :grin:
Not all metal filings get trapped at the oil filter, otherwise I wouldn't see them in the oil I've drained.
I have enough prove that frequent oil changes extend the life of the engine and more importantly the engine stays at the peak power for much much longer. :)

DreamensioN
19-09-2011, 08:16 AM
Cheers guys - yeah I think I'll just do an intermediate oil change myself. So apart from the obvious oil and oil filter - is there anything else I need? I'm just going to head down to a VW parts today to get a genuine filter. Do I need anything else (sump plug washer etc?).

Corey_R
19-09-2011, 10:18 AM
Just the sump plug and washer. The plug (looks like a bolt to me ;)) and the washer come as one.

EgFanatic
19-11-2011, 11:49 AM
DO NOT change the oil before 15,000 kms all volkswagens have run in engine oil for the first 15,000 kms if you change this oil before then your car in the long run will be burning oil no matter what. I work at vw as a tech and pre deliver these cars. The oils that vw use are long life oils as well so you dont need to keep changing, oil intervals are every 15,000 kms or 1 year.

Transporter
19-11-2011, 03:55 PM
Thanks for your advice.

Idle
20-11-2011, 09:44 AM
DO NOT change the oil before 15,000 kms all volkswagens have run in engine oil for the first 15,000 kms if you change this oil before then your car in the long run will be burning oil no matter what. I work at vw as a tech and pre deliver these cars. The oils that vw use are long life oils as well so you don't need to keep changing, oil intervals are every 15,000 kms or 1 year.

If that were so then all low-mileage engines that have their oil changed at 12 months will end up burning oil — I haven't found that to be the case (although I agree that those which never fully warm up probably will.)

Engines only wear in when they're running, after all.

dave_r
21-11-2011, 01:03 PM
What he said, mine got an early change and its not using a drop. That said, the certified oils are fine for 15k intervals. I track mine so feel better knowing its changed more often. Probably wasting my money but oh well.


I work at vw as a tech
I find this is a bigger problem than changing oil early.