Cracked Manifold

[tron]

Hi All,
Just wondering what will happen if I continue to drive my 06 T5 2.5 with what I suspect is a cracked manifold???
There is a fair amount of soot in the engine bay at the mo, and just recently I have smelt diesel fumes on startup, therefore i suspect the cracked manifold.
I have about 800 to 1000km to do in the next three days, and then I have to find someone to do the work.
Interestingly I approached a VW specialist today to enquire on a guess as to how long the piece of string would be , ie cost, and in true Doctor style he said, [I]Sorry we are not taking any more clients!!!!WTF?????
[I]
Any advice appreciated

[Cousin]

Tron, my 06 T5 had a cracked exhaust manifold when I bought it 12 months ago, and judging by the amount of soot everywhere, including through parts of the interior, it had been leaking for some time.
I probably did another 5000ks before we replaced it
Didn't seem to be any problem, apart from smelly exhaust when reversing
The new manifold was $1100.00, and some here have had theirs welded much cheaper
I've had bad experiences with welded manifolds in the past, so went for the newy
There's a bit of work replacing it, so labour won't be too cheap
And when we rang Volkwagen for a replacement, they had 206 in stock! in Sydney
That tells you something

Good luck with it


M

[tron]

Ta for the reply Cousin

Amazing that there were that many in stock..........
If the vans weren't so damn good to drive, comfortable, safe, and versatile we would never put up with the water pump, manifold and auto tranny problems!!

Cheers

M

[Transporter]

Indeed, the same here. There is no van like T5 4motion. You get mad when it is misbehaving, but as soon as you drive it again, it is all forgotten. :grin:

[Transporter]

And when we rang Volkswagen for a replacement, they had 206 in stock! in Sydney
That tells you something

Good luck with it


M

It's time to upgrade my MIG to TIG welder, just in case. :P

[Ivo]

What are the symptoms of a cracked manifold? I get exhaust smell in the cabin at start up.

[Cousin]

What are the symptoms of a cracked manifold? I get exhaust smell in the cabin at start up.

Unfortunately, that's one of them. I used to get a strong exhaust smell when reversing, for some reason.
And lots of black soot around the left hand side of the engine bay, just around the filter box.
I didn't notice any exhaust noise, ticking or worse, but perhaps the noise of the diesel drowned that out?
That was it, didn't seem to affect the performance any, just the wallet, eventually....


M

[Preen59]

You can successfully weld CI manifolds, if need be.

The secret is to vee the crack out well and heat the whole manifold up with an oxy or on a hot plate prior to welding. Use an arc welder with an iron powder electrode. Once you run a weld, immediately chip the slag off and beat the weld all over with the sharp end of your chipping hammer for about 1 minute or so as the weld is cooling. This stress relieves it and lessens the chance of it fracturing.

[Transporter]

It is not CI manifold. It's just pressed steel welded up. :)

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[Preen59]

It is not CI manifold. It's just pressed steel welded up. :)

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

Oh, well in that case.. Easy! Grab the MIG, spray some metal on it and bolt it back on! haha. :)

[Transporter]

Yep, the end of the crack needs to be drilled out on both CI or pressed steel to stop the crack from spreading, ...if someone attempt to weld it. With the TIG you can probably choose better suited metal for filling/joining the crack. :?

[Sunny43.5]

I thought we had a similar problem with our family ride T5 diesel , turns out due to bad fuel the bloody thing backfired and blew off the induction intake hose result clouds of acrid black diesel smoke from engine bay and out the back with loss of power . Over the next few hours and days refitted it many times until eventually the bugger would not clip back the retainer was worn to the point it would not hold . So being a bit of a bush mechanic I fitted a couple of screws to lock it in place has been perfect ever since Howard

[Umai Naa!!]

These manifolds pretty much break number 1 runner clean off the flange.

The replacement part has been revised, although only slightly.

It's quite an expensive job to carry out, as the manifold (and gaskets, fastners, etc) totals to around $1200, plus it's quite time-consuming due to the location of everything.

[tron]

Ta for all your replies all,
Still driving around but will hopefully get it done later this week...
Will be going down the welding route, so will keep all informed.
Thanks again

M

[Umai Naa!!]

You may need to have the flange faced, as it will most likely warp once it's welded.

[augie]

Had a go at welding up a cracked exhaust manifold today,got it from my local vw mechanic was off an 06 that they replaced at 110k was full of cracks, one flange was cracked half way around the turbo flange at the flex joint had a cracked 80% around right through the center of the weld and two that had started beside some welds.
It welded very nicely using the tig and 316 filler rod, got to hot when welding the turbo flange and melted a hole in the very thin flex joint steel so now it definatly is rubbish.
My local mech is saying spend the money get a new one, $1100 got a quote today from VW, I would much rather keep that money and try a welded one unless the new one has been improved to go alot longer than the 45k I got out of mine.

[Transporter]

Sorry to hear that it work well augie, at least you've tried. Maybe get a second one (cracked) and weld it slowly. Mine is still good at almost 90,000km.

[augie]

the one I welded was not off my van, I'm going to take mine off tomorrow, I hope to find mine in better condition than the one I worked with today.

[Transporter]

Take some pictures in the process and post it in here, please. :)

[augie]

Still yet to remove my manifold due to constant rain wishing I still had my beautiful shed here are some pix of the other one I welded up
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1020981-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1020982-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1020983-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1020985-1.jpg

[augie]

How to remove VW Transporter t5 exhaust manifold
Manifold off and welded. Quick rundown of what it takes to remove and its not as hard as i was told it would be.
1.Pipe from turbo to intercooler remove spring clips with screw driver be sure to plug all holes with rags as you go
2.Air box unclip top half, one bolt in 2nd half plus 2 stuipd plastic push in mounts carefull not to break them I got it out with one still intact.
3.Metal pipe from exhaust manifold to inlet.
4. Exhaust from turbo 5mm allen key to undo the clamp and a screw driver to get it off. get the van on some jack stands or ramps undo first slip joint clamp remove section of exhaust.
5.Four bolts holding turbo to the exhaust manifold, I got 3 of the 4 bolts undone with a t50 torx bit, but had to borrow the right size bit from my local vw mech after trying ten different shops to buy the right size bit am replacing these bolts with allen heads.
6.This is the worst part get under the car and look up under the turbo there are three t55 torx head bolts that need to come out, it did suck but I got them out.
7.One 16mm bolt hidden under the exhaust manifold holds the tubo to the motor, reach over the top of the motor on the exhaust side of the turbo with your digital camera and take a photo thats how I found it.
8.Undo all the 12mm nuts on the manifold dont drop any I wasted alot of time fishing around for nuts and the spacers that go with them.

Thats it, with all that done I could take my cracked exhaust manifold off and weld it up.
Some pix. Behind motor
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1020999-1.jpg
16mm bolt under manifold
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030013-1.jpg

the crack almost made it the whole way round look close you can see the start and finish of the crack
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030024-1.jpg

[augie]

I found that it didnt want to sit flat
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030029-1.jpg
So I put a cut through this which let it sit flat
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030031-1.jpg
Tack it down to something flat and stong
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030038-1.jpg
Grind it out
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030042-1.jpg
and weld
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030045-1.jpg
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/07/P1030050-1.jpg
$1100 saved not sure how it will last but it is worth a go

[Transporter]

Nice work there. Would you like me to move the above (your) posts in T5 How to do this and that thread?

I'm thinking about that distortion and the manifold cracking in the T5s. How about to make a gasket from 1mm – 1.5mm soft copper sheet? It should seal well and maybe prevent the cracking.

[rob64981]

Augie,

Could you supply your address so we can all send our to you when they crack?

Good work and its good to see people having a go them selves.

Rob

[mikinoz]

I am going to engage a fitter and turner to weld up mine.

I'll take it off and get it done up. Have a new gasket and brass nuts waiting to go.

[augie]

Yea transporter move them if thats a better place for it. Im hoping the cut through the small steel bar should relive the stress on that cracked exhaust flange I just hope it hasnt moved the stress point some where else. copper gasket could help but I wouldnt go that thick cause it could put load on the flex joint. I'll keep an eye on this and let you know how it goes.
Hey rob any tig welder should have no problem welding one up or a mig with stainless wire or even a stick welder will get the job done, as for having a go that's just me not wanting to part with my hard earned I'm pretty handy one the tools but I'm a fabricator definatly not a mechanic

[Preen59]

Nice work.

Looks like I might be tackling one of these for a bloke in a couple of weeks. :)

What filler rod did you use? Looks like it might have been HT/dissimilar metals type rod, like a 607 or something?

[mikinoz]

Seems that there is quite a bit of space to get to everything which is a plus!



Looks like I might be tackling one of these for a bloke in a couple of weeks. :)

I think that guy wants his cat removed, and possibly a mufflerectomy at the same time.

[augie]

Good luck Mikinoz.
The first rubbish one I had a go at I used 316 2.4mm filler wire welded up nice but this was to thick, so I got a little bit of .6 and .9 stainless mig wire from a stainless fab shop not sure what grade but it was all they had so it would do.

[Preen59]

Seems that there is quite a bit of space to get to everything which is a plus!



I think that guy wants his cat removed, and possibly a mufflerectomy at the same time.

Hahaaa we're going all-out are we? :)


Good luck Mikinoz.
The first rubbish one I had a go at I used 316 2.4mm filler wire welded up nice but this was to thick, so I got a little bit of .6 and .9 stainless mig wire from a stainless fab shop not sure what grade but it was all they had so it would do.

Cool. I thought as much. I usually use 1.6mm filler for most of the stuff I do (not that i've been on the end of a TIG for a while, unfortunately). Thanks for the info, mate. Appreciated. :)

[augie]

Manifold bolted back on started up sounds like it should again no problems no leaks even though I reused the exhaust and turbo gasket not the best idea I'm sure but we will see how it works out. Keen to get some km's done to see if the fuel economy and power has improved.

[mikinoz]

I got an exhaust mani gasket but forgot to get a turbo one so better remember that. New brass nuts also.

Now just finding the time!

[peterpangrownup]

Ouch.

Got quoted today for the job to replace the exhaust manifold on my T5. $1945.95

[JasonFrost]

WOW, I cant believe they want to charge that much!! I took all the instruction above and it took me about 4 hours total, also did a oil and filter change at the same time. Yes it is a little fiddly to get to it but definitely not to hard to have a go. Tools are the key though, the turbo has 12 point internal needed (like a torx but with 12 points) they are 10mm and 12mm metric. Don't leave it to long though because the exhaust smoke that is around the engine bay will get sucked into the air filter and eventually block it and suck it up into the air box (it made a big thud when it did) I have also just had the 6speed auto serviced at 145000 Km's which is highly recommended.

[Umai Naa!!]

Yeah, not an overly difficult job, but the manifold itself doesn't come cheap.

[tron]

Yeah the manifold for mine cost $1100 two years ago, has done 5oK km since and so far so good