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View Full Version : 1990 1.8lt, 8v donk? It's idling high



Golf Loon
07-02-2006, 07:15 PM
Got Pm`d this by a newbie, Ryan. Thought I`d let you lot help too.

"Can you help me with this 1990, 1.8lt, 8v donk? It's idling at 1100-1200rpm when warm!?!?!?"

What does it idle at when cold? Try turning the idle down at the screw on the front of the inlet manifold. If it stalls when cold, ISV or Cold Start Valve.

Is it Kjet or Digifant? Auto or Manual and does it have AC?

Ryan
14-02-2006, 10:39 AM
Well guys it idles about 800+- when cold, not to bad by the sound of things.(with AC turned off)

As is slowely warms up - so do the revs, when running temp is reached the RPM has climbed to about 1300+-.

Okay I tried turning down the idle screw on the back of the inlet manifold when hot but starts sounding unhappy and stalls even with the AC disconnected.

I think it's Digifant but i'm not sure, currently trying to post some picts but don't know how to with bigpond!

And yes it's a 5spd manual, what this has to do with the prob I don't know.

The idle stabilisation valve and/or the cold start valve have been mentioned and I think this is quite a likely cause because earlier investigation leed me to the cold start sensor which I tested and is fine.

If someone knows anything pls write it down or msn me or whatever im going nuts,

Ryan
14-02-2006, 10:49 AM
this betta work!!!http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06072/GolfCabrio1.8lt.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06072&f=GolfCabrio1.8lt.jpg)

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06072/GolfCabrio007.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06072&f=GolfCabrio007.jpg) http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06072/GolfCabrio006.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06072&f=GolfCabrio006.jpg)

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06072/GolfCabrio005.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06072&f=GolfCabrio005.jpg) http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06072/GolfCabrio003.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06072&f=GolfCabrio003.jpg)

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06072/GolfCabrio002.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06072&f=GolfCabrio002.jpg) http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06072/124437244442ed89933d0a2.gif.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06072&f=124437244442ed89933d0a2.gif)

EndlessMKI
14-02-2006, 11:01 AM
this betta work!!!http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/[/url][/img]

is this the beasty engine from mat?

dam in the car already? fark.

Ryan
14-02-2006, 11:23 AM
Mat may have plenty of parts but this one aint from him yet!

Ryan
14-02-2006, 02:38 PM
okay, after waiding through the russian vw site I have found that my golfs engine is a JH out of a Caddy
The Ignition System is: Hall-sender electronic, 1985-89
Digifant came on the 2H from 1990+
So even though mine is 1990 it has a JH Engine Code = how odd!

Golf Loon
14-02-2006, 04:30 PM
Your car is kjet, not digifant.

I dunno what a JH engine code is, but that doesn`t matter, are you sure its not a JN engine code? Check the block, not the papers. JNs are from an Audi 80.

The bit you have labelled as the cold start valve is in fact an ISV idle stabilisation valve. Try unplugging the electrical connector to this and see if it makes any difference. I believe this is a secondary unit, which ups the vacuum when you have your air on, or if the car is auto.

Also check all the hoses from the manifold to the valve for rips, vacuum leaks will cause chaos.

Is there another valve with an electrical connector mounted on the back of the manifold? This is the primary ISV.

The bit you call a pump is the fuel metering distributor. Leave that alone, it either works, or it doesn`t. Tinkering makes it not work :cry:

From the fuel metering head, there are hoses to the injectors and two others which run down to a unit on the block. This is the cold start valve. A very common fault on kjet motors. Check wiring to it and then change it for another. lots of cars have em, early saabs and volvos are cheap donors if you cant afford a vw audi one :wink:

Do all that and tell us how you get on.
Cheers
Matt

Oneofthegreats
14-02-2006, 04:36 PM
It sound's to me like the aux air valve (the valve on the back of your intake manifold with an air tube running up to your cold start valve.)isn't closing up totally. But I maybe wrong!
Also, how long has this being happening for?
Mine used to do this all the time as the electrical plug was broken and kept falling off and it wasn't closing the valve off.
With the engine running at operating temp and idling high, crimp the hose from the aux air valve to the intake manifold and see what happen's, hopefully the idle will come down and you will be able to here it closing off air supply. If not you may have an air leak somewhere.
Give it a go & let us know.

Ryan
14-02-2006, 07:00 PM
Cheers guys I'll get right into it and keep you posted
thanks
Ryan

Ryan
14-02-2006, 08:56 PM
GTI20V, Yeah i've tried closing the hose between the ISV (on the back of the intake manifold) and the intake-manifold, makes no diff...

Mat, It's a fair-dinkum JH donk with K-Jetronic, it's also used in the caddy, going off the russian site! sounds like they grabed all the pieces around the work-shop and banged it all together :lol:

All hoses checked, tightend and checked again but found FA I had replaced some not so long ago trying to rectify this situation.
Examined electrical connections on both ISV's (look in good condition) and disconnected them but no diff...

It's started about 1 month ago progressivly getting worse.

I guess all is left is the cold start valve are you sure it's on the end of the two lines comming off the Fuel Metering Distributor? thought this was the fuel pump? Not doubting you so i'll try find a replacment for the test tomorrow. Oh the connector to this looks fine aswell.

Cheers

Turning lights off in work shop
Goodnight....

Golf Loon
15-02-2006, 08:08 AM
Mat, It's a fair-dinkum JH donk with K-Jetronic, it's also used in the caddy, going off the russian site! sounds like they grabed all the pieces around the work-shop and banged it all together :lol: ....

The VW way, goto the parts bin and build a car.



Examined electrical connections on both ISV's (look in good condition) and disconnected them but no diff.......

Are they both working they should hum when power is going to em. Touch them and they should feel as if they are pulsing.



I guess all is left is the cold start valve are you sure it's on the end of the two lines comming off the Fuel Metering Distributor? thought this was the fuel pump? Not doubting you so i'll try find a replacment for the test tomorrow.....

Its a rectangular thing with two hose connectors and a couple of wires. The fuel pump is under the boot floor, or in the tank.

Good Luck

Ryan
15-02-2006, 05:37 PM
Replaced the Cold Start Valve with another of a Volvo today and it made no change at all, so we can count that one out. I'm still doing tests on the Aux Air Valve, not satisfied with it yet!

roccodingo
15-02-2006, 08:30 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/roccodingo/GolfCabrio006.jpg

this is the Auxillary air regulator, which allows extra air into the engine when the coolant temp is below 35 Deg C.

When you start the engine, electrical current is passed through the regulator which heats the electrical coil inside the unit closing the valve. the valve should be closed after 5 minurtes running time.

from the symptoms you have of high idle speed, this is likely to be the culprit at first glance. U can try the hose pinching method to see if the idle speed will drop.

Electrical resistance for the unit is 30 Ohms. check to see if you are getting 12 volts at the wiring terminal when the fuel pump is running.


HTH.

Ryan
16-02-2006, 01:38 PM
Hi Roccodingo, thanks for that just what I was looking for, okay did a few tests seems like it's faulty (not closing fully) but I didn't know what the resistance should be. you said 30 Ohms and I got 44.5 Ohms so I think it's the culprit and yes i'm getting 12.5 VDC from the electrical plug so this should be fine

Now where on earth can I find an Aux Air Valve/Regulator?
Definatley none here in Cairns i've looked everywhere! and the VW agent can't find any from his sources either.

Is their a good parts place down south somewhere???
Please let me know, cheers
Ryan.

roccodingo
17-02-2006, 01:07 AM
If you can hang out til the weekend i can likely dig one up out of my collection..

You may be able to remove the unit and find the BOSCH part number so you can cross reference with any other car manufacturer that uses Kjet ( volvo, saab, merc etc..)see how ya go..
:wink:

Ryan
17-02-2006, 10:52 AM
Righto cheers, I think Golf Loon's got one. now I've found a big prob and I think it's the main cause of the idle high prob; the injector seals are completely buggered, Whilst running the engine I sprayed some carby cleaner around the injectors "Great tip" when doing this the engine spluttered a bit, so I pulled one out and what do you know! upper seal was completely unexplainable and the lower o-ring wasn't even there. This has to be the or one of the high idle probs!!!

Golf Loon
17-02-2006, 02:31 PM
Vacuum leaks are usually the cause with kjet issues. Do you wanna change the seals and see if that fixes the prob, before getting a new aux air pump?

Ryan
17-02-2006, 03:23 PM
Yeah Loon sorry mate but i'll do the injector seals first maybe this will get me back on the raod :) , Audi agent found spares for me "thank god" Anyone have any plans / Squmatics of this K-Jet injection system I could download? I need to check they ordered the right parts cause they ordered the seals from an 1988 80" Audi JN engine I think. Oh yeah any one know how to get the ETKA cd to download :D ????

WABIT
17-02-2006, 05:48 PM
hey dude just to lat all of yas know that the k-jet engines out of a cabby is a JH block.. i have the same... just for the info fellas

wabit :P

roccodingo
17-02-2006, 07:44 PM
Yeah Loon sorry mate but i'll do the injector seals first maybe this will get me back on the raod :) , Audi agent found spares for me "thank god" Anyone have any plans / Squmatics of this K-Jet injection system I could download? I need to check they ordered the right parts "idiots". Oh yeah any one know how to get the ETKA cd to download :D ????

http://vwwatercooled.org.au/vwforum/viewtopic.php?t=806 is the link PJ found about K jet...

My copy of ETKA took several attempts to load, then conflicted with norton, but after a lot of rooting about i got it to work, what version have you got ?

Ryan
18-02-2006, 08:59 AM
Hi rocco, have'nt got one yet still trying to find download, there must be one out there!!! failing that i'll have to buy it. :( . still that's good info that Peter found, but a parts cataloge with #'s would be better.

Yeh wabit found that info on the russian site.

Ryan
18-02-2006, 01:43 PM
Also I used a screw driver to pry the injector out enough to detach the fuel line so there was enough space between the head and the intake manifold to remove the injector completely. finding the upper and lower seals buggered is it worth removing the whole injector housing for inspection? If so how is this done?
http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06076/GolfCabrioinj1.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06076&f=GolfCabrioinj1.jpg)http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06076/GolfCabrioinj2.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06076&f=GolfCabrioinj2.jpg)

http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06076/GolfCabrioinj3.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06076&f=GolfCabrioinj3.jpg)http://xs68.xs.to/pics/06076/GolfCabrioinj4.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs68&d=06076&f=GolfCabrioinj4.jpg)

Golf Loon
18-02-2006, 01:49 PM
I think the injector goes straight into the head. There is no housing to remove. Change the seals and you`ll probably find that sorts your prob. Dont force the injectors with that screwdriver. Nothing worse than a snapped one.

Ryan
18-02-2006, 02:08 PM
Only a few forcefull words were givin nothing to physical :lol:

Golf Loon
18-02-2006, 02:12 PM
Nice pics man, did you solve the prob yet?

Ryan
18-02-2006, 02:22 PM
Nah mate, waiting till mid monday for seals from Sydney to get sent up :cry:

roccodingo
18-02-2006, 07:47 PM
I think the injector goes straight into the head. There is no housing to remove. Change the seals and you`ll probably find that sorts your prob. Dont force the injectors with that screwdriver. Nothing worse than a snapped one.

From memory the air shrouded injector seats come out by using a allen key socket the correct size, this unscrews the top section, there is another section that is underneath the screw in part. You may not have to remove these parts if the seal under the seats is OK.

Be careful as these bits are rather brittle and break easily, then ya have to replace more darn partz... :cry:

Ryan
18-02-2006, 08:07 PM
cheers rocco, i thought thats what i saw on the audi parts diagram when ordering cose i've got 4 seals 4 each injector being sent, guess it would be ok if i just replaced the upper and lower first and see what happens? opening a new can of worms 4 nothing is what i'm good at most of the time :roll:

Golf Loon
18-02-2006, 09:37 PM
Yeah leave the seats alone unless you are rebuilding the head.

Ryan
19-02-2006, 09:18 AM
Yep :!: Fingers crossed for monday :wink: