No manual GTI was the dealbreaker

[apples]

Well, the title says it all. I was extremely disappointed with the fact that the Polo GTI didn't come in a manual transmission. It was the car I really wanted but couldn't compromise on the fact that it only came in DSG, so I got the TSI Comfortline manual instead. In the end, I'm happy with my choice. I guess I'm pretty unusual...out of all my friends and family, I'm the only female who drives a manual (plenty of my male family and friends still do). A lot of people wanted to know why I didn't get the GTI and when I tell them, they think I'm weird.....each to their own I guess.

Just curious as to how many of you decided not to get the GTI for this reason (or am I the only stubborn one out there), and for the GTI owners, would you have gone for the manual if it was an option?

[team_v]

I personally wouldn't buy one for the same reason.
Sure the DSG is meant to shift quicker and be more fluid but it has it's own issues and i prefer to be "engaged" in my drive rather than mashing the accelerator = go fast

[DeanB]

The manual and the small engine size have stopped me from considering the new GTI.

I still live with the idea that a GTI is manual, 3 door and has a "relatively" large & powerful engine for the car size. More likely to go to a Golf GTI or the Renault path in the future when I decide to replace the 9N3.

[apples]

The manual and the small engine size have stopped me from considering the new GTI.

I still live with the idea that a GTI is manual, 3 door and has a "relatively" large & powerful engine for the car size. More likely to go to a Golf GTI or the Renault path in the future when I decide to replace the 9N3.

I was also looking at the Golf GTI but I found it too big. Yeah, I know it's a small car but wanted something smaller. I love being a passenger in bigger size cars but like driving small cars. Probably because I'm only 5'2" tall (short) :P

[Gambit]

Nothing wrong with the DSG with the polo and to think that it disengages the driving experience is a bit of a furphy to be honest.

Having owned the 6r for a few weeks and giving it a right royal flogging through the hills against another golf GTi mk 6, it held its own.
The driving experience for that matter with the DSG does not detract from the engine and the handling dynamics of the car at all IMO. Turn in is crisp and roll centre is spot on, combined with paddle shifting in sports mode i can easily outpace and punt the car through a set of corners at a rapid pace. So much so that it never fails to astonish me with its light footed approach within the mix and on the limit.

In regards to the engine size don't be mistaken to believe that 1.4 twincharge is to be laughed at. It lays down 112 wheel kw's out the factory and does it in a sublime fashion, because of the power to weight ratio, it will leave most other cars for dead in any traffic light grand prix, not that i bother with these sorts of comparisons in real world driving but if thats your cup of tea so be it.

All i am saying is that not until you have lived with the 6R and driven it on a daily basis do you realise how delightful it is to drive in a daily and performance orientated fashion, don't just go by motoring magazine articles and internet ramblings that don't give it the credit it deserves. I say this having previously owned and tracked a modified renault clio sport, drifted a 350bhp S13 SR20DET silvia, building a 400awhp subaru, etc etc.
*my personal opinions only, take it with a pinch of salt* :D

[gavs]

Initially, i was disappointed that there was no manual because i too like to "drive" the car, I have spent years perfecting heel and toeing etc, but after driving the gti with the dsg, I was convinced that it really is a good alternative. As i have found, many of the people who have made teh same comment as apples, never actually drove the car and if they did, generally a dealer test-drive route is pretty bland around a block!

Take one for a proper drive, you will be convinced.

As for engine size arguments, 1.3 litre F1 engines in the 80's were producing up to 1000bhp, a 2011 top fuel drag racer produces 8 times the power but is 13 times the engine size, running on nitro methanol, has to be torn apart and completely rebuilt, IF the car survives a 400m journey. I'm sorry, but this argument is redundant until someone can quantifyably PROVE that a bigger engine is better.

[kaanage]

Will you sign up for the Vic Polo cruise, apples?

I totally get the manual thing - I have far more fun with my manual Polo than my DSG Golf. And you've saved yourself a fair bit of cash too - now go to John @ DNA Tuning to use some of that saving and give the car a power boost :cool:

[apples]

Will you sign up for the Vic Polo cruise, apples?

I totally get the manual thing - I have far more fun with my manual Polo than my DSG Golf. And you've saved yourself a fair bit of cash too - now go to John @ DNA Tuning to use some of that saving and give the car a power boost :cool:

I haven't signed up for the cruise organised by Gav....won't get the car in time :(

If I did get it in time, would I be the lone chick or are there other there girls coming too? It wouldn't phase me, just curious that's all.

[Frostee]

Gavs won't have his in time! :facepalm: Sorry, couldn't resist

In all seriousness, when are you getting yours? I think to date you might be the only chick amongst us but you're more than welcome. If you can't make it on the first run I know there will be others.

[apples]

Gavs won't have his in time! :facepalm: Sorry, couldn't resist

In all seriousness, when are you getting yours? I think to date you might be the only chick amongst us but you're more than welcome. If you can't make it on the first run I know there will be others.

If all goes to plan, then August. The salesman said July/August but I doubt it will be July. I would have loved to have been the only rose amongst the thorns (or in this case, the boring driver amongst the revheads??)

Ahhhh...you and I Frostee would have made a wonderful sight with our wind stockings :P

[gavs]

Nice Frostee, real nice. I might have started the lingere jokes, but I finished a long time ago! ;)

Damn Tranny car.....

Apples, you might get surprised with delivery but if this damn weather keeps dumping bloody snow, we might have to postpone anyway! :(

Frostee, you still interested in the anchors?

[GTI JOE]

I haven't signed up for the cruise organised by Gav....won't get the car in time :(

If I did get it in time, would I be the lone chick or are there other there girls coming too? It wouldn't phase me, just curious that's all.
Don't worry apples, there will be males, females, gay, straights even a transvestite with a sunroof;)

[apples]

Don't worry apples, there will be males, females, gay, straights even a transvestite with a sunroof;)

Lol - I woulda been the pick of the bunch....a chick driver of Asian heritage. Now there's a double bad driver stereotype. Perhaps 2 wrongs make a right, or should that be 2 wongs make a white? (sorry, couldn't resist!)

As for the transvestite quip, makes me think of Frankenfurter......Frostee Frankenfurter that is :P

[Blitzen]

As for engine size arguments, 1.3 litre F1 engines in the 80's were producing up to 1000bhp...

I think you will find that the engine capacity in the turbo era F1 cars was 1.5L, and for qualifying, some engines were producing over 1400hp, and up to 1100hp for racing...

I think the 1.4TSI/DSG combination is the the biggest turn off for the 6R GTI, that and the gawd awful looks of it (it looks like the same same guys who designed it and the new Golf designed the new Subaru Liberty too).
If you aren't waiting for the engine to blow up, you are waiting for the clutches or the Mechatronics to fail in the gearbox...

I'm not saying the 9N3 GTI is good looking, but the 6R looks like it was set on fire, then put out with a bike chain. When I look at replacing mine, I'm going to look for a Mk4 GTI/R32, or Bora 4Motion.

[GTI JOE]

I gather you don't like the 6R GTI;) to each his own. I personally like it far better than the 9N3 GTI in all aspects....IMHO.

[Gambit]

"said something"

bah ... to each their own, exactly ! ;)

[triode12]

LOL - that's a bit harsh.

I've driven both the 9N3 and 6R Polo GTIs and prefer the 9N3 for the driving experience but I think the 6R looks good (I think it is better looking than the MkVI Golf GTI). IMO the 6R is not as fun to drive as the 9N3 - it is a tad refined and I think that due to the fact that it has one too many gears in it's 7spd DSG box.

[apples]

I just love driving a manual car. I don't drive my current car a lot - it's almost 6 years old and I've only clocked 42k on it and I probably only drove it for about 30k (my fiance the rest). I guess if I did a lot of driving in heavy traffic I would start to find a manual car annoying.

[sVWatt]

I think...When I look at replacing mine, I'm going to look for a Mk4 GTI/R32, or Bora 4Motion.

R32 yes, Bora no - boring Bora.

I love the 6R looks - especially the Gti 3door. Lovely, slurpy, juvely ;)

[RoknRob]

I really don't understand why anyone would not want the most performing option in a performance oriented vehicle.

I really enjoy driving manual, too, but the fact is the DSG (and let's not forget the GTI comes with paddles) let's you go quicker.

I rest my case.

[kaanage]

I really don't understand why anyone would not want the most performing option in a performance oriented vehicle.

I really enjoy driving manual, too, but the fact is the DSG (and let's not forget the GTI comes with paddles) let's you go quicker.

I rest my case.

Because driver involvement is more fun than just going fast. Try riding a Jap 600 SuperSports anywhere close to the speed limits and then ride a Ducati 900SS (which is slower in just about every quantitative metric)

I rest my case.

But I cannot understand anyone who prefers the looks of a 9N3 to a 6R - and I own a 9N3 :P But then I also like the look of the MkVI Golf (and can't stand the look of any recent Subaru)

Apples, I was going to hit on you - asiastic chick who likes to drive - until you mentioned the fiance ;)

[RoknRob]

But the paddles ALLOW for driver involvement. That's my point. You can still shift, it just happens quicker than a blink of an eye. (or should I say ;) of an eye! )

[kaanage]

The mechanics of getting a clean shift, especially downshifting, is a real joy to me - it's just not the same with a DSG. It's a bit like setting a lap record in Gran Turismo vs driving at the back of the field for real (OK, no where near that but the sentiment is similar).
And the DSG in traffic can be a real pain - I much prefer a manual in the inner city crawl.

[RoknRob]

I hear what you are saying, and I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I love manuals, too, but in this instance, for me, anyway, the benefits outweigh the negatives.

I am hoping you can clarify how the DSG can possibly be worse in the innercity crawl, though. The beauty of being able to let it do the work for you in that instance must surely make it superior. Obviously, I have not had the experience myself, but I was convinced it could only be a good thing, for rush hour traffic.

[triode12]

The ideal for me would be a DSG box which had a manual mode that allowed one to shift gears like a proper manual (stickshift with a clutch pedal).

When you want some fun, throw it in manual mode and drive it like a stickshift but in heavy traffic, put it in auto and let the DSG box do it's thing.

While I like the DSG Boxes on both my Golfs, I do sometimes miss the stickshift in my old Ford laser.

[noone]

I like my 9N3, I like the front of the new Polo and rear lights, that's about it.

You can compare new to old all day, but I want a clutch. I love slipping around in the wet with traction off, new cars have too many electronics getting in the way of good ol' fun...

The new GTI engine is a great balance of Power vs economy, the old GTI has a lot more tuning potential.

For the new crew, take a look at Plautos' build thread. THATS what a GTI should be...

Stock vs Stock, new one has it. Modded vs modded, it wil be interesting to see.

Lets meet at Wakefield in a few months to compare.

[Guy_H]

I'm now a convert to the new Polo GTI & the DSG, took me a while to get used to it, but know I have a grasp of "D" mode & "S" mode & a better understanding of the hill hold thing - I think it's awesome.

Believe me, the new Polo GTI will kick ass on the track with a little work, the new chassis is good, and the power delivery is smooooth

[kaanage]

I'm not saying for a moment that DSG with paddle shifters won't be FASTER when hustling along - I'm saying it won't be as FUN when not trying to drive flat out (ie most of the time).

And the DSGs I have driven can get confused in stop start traffic making for jerky progress. Maybe the Polo GTi will be programmed better for crawling along.

I don't mind doing lots of shifts so a manual in traffic has never bothered me

I think the new 6R shape/stance is much nicer than the 9N(3) but some of the detailing is not quite as cohesive as the MkVI Golf, especially the mismatch between the head and tail lights. The 9N(3) just looks dumpy and frumpy - maybe that's why so many (inc GTi's) are driven by middle aged women.

[Guy_H]

I got stuck in traffic on the freeway yesterday, the DSG was awesome for the "crawl" - mind you, its my first DSG daily driver so I can't compare it to the 6 speed DSG or older models. Smooth as silk in "D" mode.

[apples]

Hey.....I'm almost at middle age and I like the 6R shape! :(

[Corey_R]

I'm not saying for a moment that DSG with paddle shifters won't be FASTER when hustling along - I'm saying it won't be as FUN when not trying to drive flat out (ie most of the time).

And the DSGs I have driven can get confused in stop start traffic making for jerky progress. Maybe the Polo GTi will be programmed better for crawling along.

I don't mind doing lots of shifts so a manual in traffic has never bothered me
The DSG gets confused by the drivers input to the throttle...
Once you've had the car for a while, many drivers (particularly traditional manual drivers rather than traditional auto drivers) can adapt and learn how much throttle is needed for a particular situation, and the DSG adapts somewhat too.

Therefore you can still enjoy smoothness when not driving flat out, and be faster when driving flat out.

It's also my experience (at least with the 6sp DSG in a MKV Golf GTI and MK6 Golf R) that updated ECU giving more torque down low can provide a smoother DSG experience too.

[kaanage]

Maybe mine never adapts properly because I'm not its normal driver.

[RoknRob]

Corey was suggesting that (mainly), it's the driver that needs to adapt to the DSG. Once used to it, your daily crawl can be a smooth experience. I hope... In fact, I'm counting on it!!!
The only time I hate my manual is during the daily crawl... and my left hip ain't so pleased with it either, anymore! :mad: (Yes, yes, Middle Age is just around the corner, RoknRob...):(

[Mi16 Man]

.....Just curious as to how many of you decided not to get the GTI for this reason (or am I the only stubborn one out there), and for the GTI owners, would you have gone for the manual if it was an option?

I am driving a Mk6 Golf GTI manual for this exact reason. Plus, the Golf was only $42K driveaway versus 1yr++ wait for a specced up $37.5K Polo GTi (CW 5dr).

[mfl]

I am driving a Mk6 Golf GTI manual for this exact reason. Plus, the Golf was only $42K driveaway versus 1yr++ wait for a specced up $37.5K Polo GTi (CW 5dr).

+1 , I ruled a few cars, because no manual available.

[kaanage]

Corey was suggesting that (mainly), it's the driver that needs to adapt to the DSG. Once used to it, your daily crawl can be a smooth experience. I hope... In fact, I'm counting on it!!!
Well, I have been adapting to it and it is GENERALLY smooth but when you need to do something it deems a little odd (like tramping on the gas to stop that fuçkwit from cutting in to the 1.25 carlength space between you and the next car) it can shift in a contrary manner. The other situation that quite a few people have found the DSG not behaving well is when trying to accelerate hard to turn out from a turn lane if creeping up and momentarily stopping just prior - it can pause in a frustrating (and sometimes dangerous) manner before engaging drive.

[Corey_R]

Yeah... don't stop! And if you MUST stop, then wait until the next available gap.

This is what I mean by you adapting. If you're coming to the corner and you've looked and a gap will be there to merge, then slow down a bit earlier so that you don't have to completely stop and so that you can already have some load on the engine when it is time to accelerate out into the lane. If the situation prevents you from doing that, then come to a complete stop, and wait until the next break in traffic where you can turn into the left lane safely. Remember also that if you are stopped that you can tap the accelerator while your brake is still engaged to "pre-engage" the clutches and accelerate off quicker with less delay. Additionally (at least with the Golf R) if you put the car into S or M then the idle jumps from 800 to 1300rpm so that the stand-still delay is reduced anyway.

[apples]

If I do get my car in time for the Vic Cruise, perhaps you GTI owners will swap cars with me for half of the cruise so I can see what I'm missing out on bahahahahahahaha :banana:

[blutopless2]

if you are experiencing jerkiness from a standstill or surges at low speed then get the dsg looked at... most likely it is at fault and not the driver... unless you are on and off the go pedal then of course it will get confused.
while I think the dsg is ok i would prefer a manual. My wife is the same.

[pologti18t]

Strangely I had no problems with the DSG when I did test drives in a Polo GTI (i have always had manuals). I drove it like an automatic car, which essentially it is. It's "brain" certainly isn't any smarter than the better torque converter auto boxes out there.

If you go stompting on the throttle in an auto car the gearbox will go ballistic thumping through gears. SMoothness with the throttle will reward you.

I also couldn't sense the near-death delay people spoke of. Came to a T intersection on a hill. Came to a stop. Break in traffic, foot off brake (i didn't use the handbrake) and onto throttle. Car takes off smoothly with no more delay than letting the clutch out in a manual car.
I even tried reverse parking with no issues.

The only thing that annoyed me was when the DSG was in "S" it seemed to hold onto gears for far too long even if you came off the throtte. Too hyperactive except when you are really fanging it up a mountain pass.

[gavs]

There is an easy solution all all these supposed problems, drive it like the clutchless manual gearbox that it is so YOU as the driver can dictate what gear and when, pretty simple to me. You still change gears, you just don't have a foot pedal and an H pattern gearbox, you either use the gear lever or the steering wheel paddles, that's what they're there for.

[GTI JOE]

Yes... well said....mmmmooooooohahahahahahaha ;)

C'mon guys get over it, DSG is the evolutionary next stage in technology. Stick shift is overrated ;)

[Corey_R]

if you are experiencing jerkiness from a standstill or surges at low speed then get the dsg looked at... most likely it is at fault and not the driver...
It could be a mechanical fault. But the reality is, it's been the customer more than it has been the mechanicals (at least based on this forum's experience, and considering we're all enthusiastic to get online and discuss this stuff, I'd have to think that we'd be even less pointed towards the customer than the general public).



I drove it like an automatic car, which essentially it is.

That's very untrue. "Essentially", it's two traditional manual gearboxes strapped together, with the shifting and clutch operation controlled by a mechatronics unit. (That is the mechanical and technical reality of the DSG). Whilst you could say that part of the mechatronics (the electronic "brain" part) is similar to that of an auto, the rest of the box bears no resemblence from a mechanical standpoint.



There is an easy solution all all these supposed problems, drive it like the clutchless manual gearbox that it is so YOU as the driver can dictate what gear and when, pretty simple to me

Yes and no. Whilst when driving spiritedly, you're correct, when crawling along in traffic, driving in M is actually not as smooth as using D. It's simply not possible to be as smooth as D actually. The reason is, when you put it into M, the idle revs increase, and also the minimum shift points change.

For example, in my Golf R, if I'm crawling along in traffic, the car will be in D2 from as low as 4km/h, using the torque of the engine and a single gear until it gets to around 22km/h when it changes into 3rd. If you're in M, it won't let you change into 2nd until you're doing around 17, because M is oriented towards "sportiness", if you're pottering in traffic, you usually cannot have enough load on the engine to make it a "smooth" change either!

So certainly, for "stuck in traffic" driving, learning how D operates in your particular car, and making small adaptations to that, is essential for smooth driving. But in that sense, it's no different to driving a traditional manual in one make/model, then jumping into another manual make/model and adjusting to it's different gearshift and clutch operation.

[pologti18t]

That's very untrue. "Essentially", it's two traditional manual gearboxes strapped together, with the shifting and clutch operation controlled by a mechatronics unit. (That is the mechanical and technical reality of the DSG). Whilst you could say that part of the mechatronics (the electronic "brain" part) is similar to that of an auto, the rest of the box bears no resemblence from a mechanical standpoint.


i know it's not a conventional idea of an automatic... BUT it is the VW automatic option for several cars in its range. In essence the driver doesn't have to use a clutch or change gears themselves to move forward :)

If you dropped joe blogs into a VW with DSG and asked them to drive it they would say its an automatic.

[Corey_R]

I understand. But it is joe blog's expectation that it will drive like every other automatic which they've been in which ultimate leads to much of the customer dissatisfaction in the DSG (where there are no mechanical faults involved).

This is the Polo forum and the DSG is very new to this range. But in the Golf forums where the DSG has been available for 7 years now, there is case after case of this where once it's been explained and people have adapted their driving, they have then been satisfied and even come to love the DSG... for better or worse, it just needs a slightly different approach :)

[kaanage]

Let me say once again that I find the DSG faster for upshifts than I could ever be - the underlying engineering ensures this. Also in normal driving, it shifts very smoothly, especially if you let it pick when to shift rather than trying to manually override.

Like all autos though, the shift points in both D and S mode are not always where I would choose them to be, especially for off throttle situations and I find the manual down shifting sometimes slower than I would like. Plus light throttle takeoffs can be a little jerky if you shift to neutral while stopped and don't shift into gear a couple of seconds before takeoff. But these are pretty minor complaints given the normal speed and smoothness.

But the hesitation after a momentary stop is not something I find totally satisfactory as it sometimes leaves you in awkward and potentially dangerous situations. And while you can say "just don't stop", it's not that easy to alter your thinking when you swap vehicles and are concentrating on a traffic situation rather than trying to remember that the car has a behaviour mode that you're best off avoiding.

It's like swapping between a track bike with race shift vs a sports bike with road shift - the time you forget is when you're concentrating on what you need to do rather than how to do it.

If I only drove DSG equipped cars, maybe I'd never get caught out by this quirk but don't say it doesn't exist (this comment isn't pointed at you, Corey).

[dasrattles]

i realised that on the DSG, there is a sweet spot on the depression of the gas pedal from standstill. this sweet spot lets you take off instantly and smoothly. too little and it hesitates, too much and it jerks. i guess over ~2000km of driving will get your leg's muscle memory accustomed to this

[blutopless2]

i had hesitation from a standstill and jerkiness on take off nearly all the time... this gearbox has since been replaced with a new unit (as i had other issues also).
the new gearbox is soooo much better. No "sweet" spot needed... it is smooth from a standstill all the time no matter how much throttle i apply - which is how it should be, and there is no hesitation - straight off the brake and on the throttle and away it goes.