How to better Vent T4? [Archive] - VWWatercooled Australia

GlowPlug

11-04-2011, 11:10 PM

Howdy!

I take my dogs for rides in the van often, the problem I have is venting it properly.
I have 2 muller vents at the front - apparently they let the air in.
At the back I have 2 whirly gigs - apparently they let the air out.
The guy at the caravan place said this is the way to go.

The problem is it doesn't seem to be working. When you open the very back of the van up you are met with warmer almost stale air, This can happen if the windows are up or down.

Is there a better way to do it?

Muller Vent at front of van
http://www.caravanstore.com.au/productImages/cache/tn_124_muller-vent.jpg2.jpg

Whirly Gig at back of van
http://www.allstores.com.au/product_images/cache/tn_rotary-vent.jpg

Cousin

12-04-2011, 06:07 AM

Your problem, glowplug, is the source of the odour
It's not something that can easily be disippaited by exchange of air
Oil off dog hair will cling to any other surface it comes into contact with, then depending on age and health of the dog, emit an odour off that surface for a very long time.
More so when humidity goes up.
The only real solution is to have any textiles in your van 'steam cleaned' (correct term is hot water extraction)
Once that's done, consider using sheets or blankets over the seats to protect them from further contamination, and just wash them every now and then.

M

Seano

12-04-2011, 09:07 AM

You've been mislead. Both those vents will suck air out of the van....especially when moving along. Even so they are designed primarily to exchange air in slow moving or stopped situations only - especially that Muller Vent. Unless you can get enough air into the van in the right places (down low) then you'll never get much air exchange going.

And Cousin is right regarding the source....

GlowPlug

12-04-2011, 10:37 PM

Sorry I didn't mean that the dogs are stinking up my van, it's that the van is getting stuffy down the back.
The air is much warmer at the back when you open the door, then the front of the van as they are not getting a good exchange of fresh air.

I looked at getting sliding windows down the back, problem is no one seems to make them as it's a LWB.
And now it seems I have 4 holes in my roof that are of no use to me!

MultiplexMan

13-04-2011, 10:27 AM

Pictures of the vent locations would be helpful.

If I understand correctly the Muller vent acts like a venturi (exhaust) when the opening is facing backwards. Will it work as a scoop (inlet) if you faced it forward? Can you rotate it?

Do you have a solid barrier between the cab (opening windows) and the cargo bay?

t4 camper

13-04-2011, 07:03 PM

I had sliding windows made for rear of my lwb.
These people are in Brisbane, Flair Enterprises (http://www.flairenterprises.com.au/index.html)

About $650 for a pair in 2004. I left the template with them.
The rear section slopes slightly, in that the rear height of window is about 10mm smaller that the front of the same section. best measure on the inside where you can get easy access to the inner body lip.
The panel also has about 7mm curve from top to bottom, windows were made straight. Expensive to get curved glass. The body lip was straightened a little when fitted and gap top and bottom, about 2 mm each was filled with black sikiflex as glue.
The template was cut to the inner body lip and window frame made to match. Could not get the corners as tight as the body, 65mm radius for the ali frame comes to mind.

Possible to get made, won't buy them off the shelf.

GlowPlug

13-04-2011, 09:03 PM

Pictures of the vent locations would be helpful.

Will take some tomorrow to show you.

If I understand correctly the Muller vent acts like a venturi (exhaust) when the opening is facing backwards. Will it work as a scoop (inlet) if you faced it forward? Can you rotate it?

I have friends who also one one in a pannel van, and they have it on the other way, they say it lets in the rain when you drive.
I could ratote it I guess, but the letting in of the water puts me off doing that.

Do you have a solid barrier between the cab (opening windows) and the cargo bay?
[/QUOTE]

No i don't.

GlowPlug

13-04-2011, 09:04 PM

.

Thank you, I will look into it - Im in Melbourne

I'm hoping by having sliding windows at the back it will help with the air flow?

GlowPlug

18-04-2011, 06:51 PM

Here is a picture of the roof showing where the vents are located.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/04/100_8888_1-1.jpg

GlowPlug

18-04-2011, 06:55 PM

Would something like this be of use?
FAN-TASTIC VENT 6600 WHITE W/ SMOKE LID & RF REMOTE (eBay item 370378516451 end time 05-May-11 06:20:53 AEST) : eBay Motors (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370378516451&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

GlowPlug

18-04-2011, 06:56 PM

MultiplexMan

19-04-2011, 09:14 AM

@GlowPlug - I would hazard that your forward vents are contributing nothing to removing "moisture" from the back. I would try blanking them off to see if that improves things.

If you keep your cab windows open - air can enter. Air can only leave through the rear vents. This will drag some moist air as it exits.

Fit some of T5Pete's window fairings if you want to stop any rain entering whilst you've got the cab windows cracked open :wink:

Make sure the base of the rear vents is unobstructed. Flyscreen panels should be OK. Ensure that the rear vent is drawing air from the cargo bay not the gap between the headlining and the roof! Any internal trim piece should be fitted to the head lining not the steel roof. If not, a short piece of plastic pipe should do the trick - from the vent fitted flush to the headlining.

I'd consider fitting some 12V extraction fans to the rear vents. Select something that matches the internal diameter of the installed units and "plug" it in. You want a tight fit.

A much neater solution than coiled tube if you want to keep your forward vents in play - use low profile plastic conduit. It is rectangular cross section and should fit snug up against the roof lining - used for extraction fans on top of kitchen cabinets.

http://www.midainternational.co.uk/Ducting.jpg

GlowPlug

19-04-2011, 03:14 PM

Thank you, gives me some info to work with over Easter.

With the gap between the roof and headlining, could I extend that pipe down a foot or two and if so would it still work to extract the air?

MultiplexMan

19-04-2011, 04:22 PM

...With the gap between the roof and headlining, could I extend that pipe down a foot or two and if so would it still work to extract the air?

You do not want your extraction pipe to be too low. Remember hot air rises. I would keep it flush to the head lining. If you want to be fancy, fit a nice "bell mouth" to tidy up the trim. Item below - but other way round :rolleyes:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2011/04/product_b_2-1.jpg

I was chatting with an Optus tech this afternoon and noted he had one whirly vent in the back of his van. The cargo bay was no warmer than the cab. His work van had no insulation nor any side windows. The vent was spinning like crazy with the van stationary. I noted it kept doing so when we both drove off.

I forgot to check if he had a "fly screen" fitted :facepalm:

GlowPlug

19-04-2011, 06:49 PM

I sourced some PVC pipe, it is the same diameter as the hole cut - I will be fitting it on Friday.

The temp in the back is the same as the front when there is no dogs in the van.

The vents are always spinning, they just don't seem to suck the hot air out, perhaps with the gap covered it will solve the problem?

MultiplexMan

19-04-2011, 07:21 PM

Easy test to check your vents, as practised by cubicle farm occupants around the world - stick some light tissue strips around the vent opening.

If they get drawn up - you have an active, functioning vent. :P

GlowPlug

19-04-2011, 08:15 PM

I was just going to shove the wife in the back and take it for a spin to test it LOL

Sunny43.5

21-04-2011, 04:36 PM

Hi all just thought I would throw my ten cents one at this as this is something I have had experience with . I used to show Old English Sheepdogs so keeping them cool at the rear was important , now I will point out here that I am in the sunroof industry so I know about the benefits of sunroofs . The T4 that we had was very easy to fit sunroofs into as there are multiple flat panels where your vents now are . I fitted what are called "spoiler"style sunroofs both were electric operation when you opened the front one there was air flow around the front section but when you opened the rear one as well what a difference you could feel the air litterally rushing through to the back of the van , worked well for us . The roofs could also be left open when parked which kept the van cool and there was no risk of the dogs escaping . Now this option would be more costly as two of these roofs installed would be about $2200 for the pair . A cheaper option would be fitting "pop up " style sunroof pure manual operation but you would need to remove the glass panels to get the air flow when driving as they only tilt up , but the glasses are removable by a simple lock device . I am in Qld but there are many sunroof companies in most states that would be able to help . Howard

MultiplexMan

22-04-2011, 01:08 AM

@Sunny43.5 - sunroof would definitely be the way to go! Picture of such an install below. I guess GlowPlug should try to get his existing set-up to work first...:rolleyes:

http://www.aaw-ltd.co.uk/images/gallery/lemon_t4_sunroof_after.jpg

OT - I am looking at a simple pop up sunroof for the cab of my T5. I've seen some very nice installations in the UK with integrated rollos but have yet to see anything similar locally. Can you recommend anything? :confused:

http://www.aaw-ltd.co.uk/images/gallery/topline_200.jpg

rogerd63

22-04-2011, 08:31 AM

You could try installing a sunroof in the rear.They allow a fair bit of air flow out of the van.Those rear whirly vents dont do that much.

rogerd63

22-04-2011, 08:35 AM

MultiplexMan

22-04-2011, 08:49 AM

Great idea on the T5 but i have been told a big NO as the roof profile in the rear isnt flat (its ridged) so they cant be fitted. You can have one in the front though. Not happy here as i wanted it done to my T5 as i use it as a camper.

The profiled roof does prevent the easy installation of vents and sun roofs. I would rather have the more rigid roof panel though...

Sunny43.5

24-04-2011, 07:29 PM

Hey Guys you are all right , when I sold [or should I say wrote off my T4] back in 2005 I bought the then new T5 a bit dissapointed with 2 litre compared to the old 2.5 petrol , but after having a fully built in style sunroof in the front section and an electric "spoiler " style sliding roof in the rear I was dissapointed that the T5 has only one smooth section for a sunroof in the front . I don,t use aircon much and used to love opening both roofs for the fresh air experience . So now days I still have a fully built in style electric sunroof in the front section but sob sob no rear roof [ curses on VW ] (I can get a reasonable air flow if I lower the front windows but I have to wear a cap or I end up looking like the wild man from Borneo !!!!!! . I don,t like these vents that are on top of the roof as there is a risk of smashing them on some low underground parking and they look like crap , plus the whirly ones are notorious for wearing out the bearings and getting very noisy {yes I used to fit these when I had my other business years ago } . I still havent given up thinking about some way to vent the rear but it has to look the part , if I find something I,ll let you all know , I,ll post a photo of our van with the roof in when I get round to it . Howard

irsa76

25-04-2011, 04:45 PM

Those whirly vents normally work fine, I have noticed some have a brake on them for when you want them not to vent. Could be worth a look if this is the case, or if they are simply not installed correctley. As for the sunroof option, I belive it IS actually possible to install a rear sunroof, just not very easy to seal it due to the ridges on the roof. We're currently looking into a future van purchase to carry the soon to be purchased dog and the ventilation issue is one we are very concerned about. To the point so far the Kia Grand Carnical Platinum is favoured due to it's sunroof+fully opening side windows and rear vent windows!

GlowPlug

30-04-2011, 12:12 PM

The sunroof option looks great! I worry about making the roof weaker by cutting bigger holes into it etc.

The whirly vents are installed correctly, BUT I did not have them flush to the roof lining, as suggested I have now fitted a cover to block the gap between the roof and head lining. I have tried to test it out with the tissue/paper method, problem is I can't see down the back!
Hopefully over the weekend I can find someone to sit back there to watch.

I wonder by filling the gap and if i fit a fan pushing the air up to the vents that it will vent better?

GlowPlug

04-05-2011, 01:57 PM

So far so good, it's cool so will have to keep an eye on it when it gets warmer and see how it's holding up.

Thank you for all the advice, its' greatly appreciated.

DutchAussie

07-02-2014, 01:30 PM

Here is a picture of the roof showing where the vents are located.

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2014/02/100_8888_1-1.jpg

I can't see it properly on your photo.
The large opening of the Muller Vents should be facing the front.
The work on the ventury principle as mentioned before and operate when their is air movement over the vehicle.
The move air out of the vehicle.
I hope this helps.
I just bought a new van and will be installing the Muller Vents.
I am interested in your reply.

Sunny43.5

07-02-2014, 04:21 PM

Okay I will add my photo here as I hade posted to this one a few years back , I did finally fit an opening sunroof to the rear of my T5 I certainly would not do one again modifying the roof to fit the ribs was areal bitch but it does absolutely create a massive air flow through the van when opened but remember I have a sunroof at the front as well so it makes the air flow differ from others .http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k610/sunny435700/IMG_6554.jpg (http://s1118.photobucket.com/user/sunny435700/media/IMG_6554.jpg.html)

DutchAussie

08-03-2014, 11:10 AM