Evo hot hatch test - includes Polo GTI

[Lima]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3e_mYY7Yr8

You probably know what to expect here, but it's still worth watching.

[sabloke]

I love this video! Typical EVO quality motor journalism. I wonder why our Wheels and Motor won't learn from these guys rather than trying to compete with TG in dumbness...

[Gambit]

Yes totally agree with the review polo gti is very boring compared to a rs200 Clio that I test drove. At the end of the day would have
Much preferred the Renault but the polo was always for the +1 who values comfort and plushness over driver engagement.

[GTI JOE]

Yes totally agree with the review polo gti is very boring compared to a rs200 Clio that I test drove. At the end of the day would have
Much preferred the Renault but the polo was always for the +1 who values comfort and plushness over driver engagement.

.......and, value, bang for your buck:)

[gavs]

I drove both but I settled on the polo for 2 reasons:

1) Price. The Clio, as good as it is, aint worth an extra $12k over the Polo and with the 12k I saved, that could go to some pretty hefty mods to waste any clio!

2) Harshness. I got the Clio for a fair drive therough Warrandyte area and while good for a fang, I couldn't see me making the 6hr commute to Mildura in it, it really isn't a comfortable place to be in for cruising.

While it is a great car, if I went to the Renualt stable, Megane RS250 and that is it, no clio on my wish list.

[break]

Clio's really are a one trick pony in contrast to the hot Polo's. Absolutely ball tearing around a mountain road/track... but compromised on the daily commute (says someone that drives 70km a day in my Clio, and used to do the same trip in a Polo GTI).

I couldn't agree more on the price factor of the Clio... as fun as they are, they are not worth the RRP here in Aus. Really, they should be sold as a competitor to the new Polo GTI, and priced accordingly (ie. around the $30-32k mark), rather than being as expensive as a Golf GTI.

[pologti18t]

Clio's really are a one trick pony in contrast to the hot Polo's. Absolutely ball tearing around a mountain road/track... but compromised on the daily commute (says someone that drives 70km a day in my Clio, and used to do the same trip in a Polo GTI).



The old 172 had quite compliant suspension. Only the Cup suspension Clio RS200 has a bone jarring ride. Makes you wonder why Renault doesn't release a RS200 (and Megane RS250) model in Australia with the standard non-Cup suspension (ie softer)

[sabloke]

You guys are missing the point of the RS 200, completely. Not a car for commuting, true. If judged as a hatch is not great value for money either. One trick pony, maybe. But boy, does it deliver when you ask it to do that trick! The way I see it, the Clio drives like a proper sports car while looking like a hatch. If Renault would use this chassis and engine and brakes while dropping on top a humpy shell ala TT or something, people would pay $90k for it :) Get on a mountain road early in the morning on a weekend behind the wheel of a little RS 200, that's the only way to understand the point of this car. Alternatively, listen again, carefully, what the reviewer has to say about it: "one of the best road cars, at any price". He knows his stuff, otherwise Ken Block wouldn't have handed over his 650 HP Fiesta, ha ha!

You want value for money, great for commuting and with fantastic resale value? Get a Mazda 2, or a Yaris. A hot hatch might be compromised in some degree when talking comfort, fuel economy or practicality. But come on, why compromise on driving joy? What's the point of it then?

[Buller_Scott]

1) Price. The Clio, as good as it is, aint worth an extra $12k over the Polo and with the 12k I saved, that could go to some pretty hefty mods to waste any clio!



clio's far superior as a driving car to a golf gti, and they're similarly priced...

as for wasting any clio, what mods could you do? hr sway bar, coilies, chip, custom dump.... no one makes bushes for the 6R yet (so no reducing that no-feedback-from-steering feeling)... you could have $1million and say you could turn the gti into a giant killer, but there are only so many things that you could actually do to a 6R gti, based on the stuff available for it at the moment....

there is a reason why many, many motoring journalists have called the clio "one of the best driving cars (not just hatches) in the world"... dunno if coilies, a strut brace and a tune would have a new, watered down polo gti beating THAT.... (just saying).

[sabloke]

Many reviewers, the one in discussion included, rate the Clio higher than the Mini superworksbellsandwhislesedition, that cost at least $10k more. Anyone complaining though? BMW beaten at their game by Renault for significantly less money. Is the MIni a competitor for the Polo as well? :)

Here's the thing, no one is complaining about the harsh ride in an Elise or 911. So, why complain about the Clio then? Just because it cost a fraction of the other two, it has to ride like a good old Citroen? :)

[Wolf]

Hopefully with the increase in recognition and improved quality, the RS brand will increase its resale value.
It's still suffering from the crap way it was handled into the country from decades ago.
Rep stays with cars like a bad smell.
Right now though, new models are smelling like daisies. (nb: or whatever smell appeals to you)
Cheers,
WOLF
- RS and VW parts supplier -

[Gambit]

Here here you should not misunderstand the purpose and intent behind the Renault sport brand, it holds the RS emblem for a reason. I would happily trade the polo gti for a rs200 any time without hesitation for a mountain pass run.

[pologti18t]

Anyone read the latest Wheels? From that report, though the Clio is more viceral... the Polo did a faster lap and qas quicker in a straight line.
I think the Megane RS250 is well worth the extra

[sabloke]

I disagree. The 250 is a different car. More powerful and faster, without a doubt. However, it is less raw than the Clio, heavier and turbocharged as well. I do prefer the lighter Clio, only because it feels and drives like a go-kart. Brakes like one, too (35m from 100 km/h!!) I also like the fact that it doesn't stand out but it doesn't look boring, either. Just right IMO.

Love my Clio but gotta agree the Polo GTI is very good value if you're after a fast hatch. Would I buy a Polo? No, I'm too old to drive one :) But that doesn't mean I don't respect its qualities. However, stop saying that an APR tune and some tubes bolted between the wheels will transform it into a giant killer. That is rubbish and you know it... You'll end up talking like the R crowd that think a tune makes their Golf faster than Lambos and Aston Martins :D

[break]

The old 172 had quite compliant suspension. Only the Cup suspension Clio RS200 has a bone jarring ride. Makes you wonder why Renault doesn't release a RS200 (and Megane RS250) model in Australia with the standard non-Cup suspension (ie softer)Yeah, the non-cup spec 172/182's are all pretty reasonable at absorbing the bumps... but the steering and particularly the clutch are just sooooo heavy for such a small car. Not to mention the driving position is horrible if you're anything bigger than a midget.

[pologti18t]

Yeah, the non-cup spec 172/182's are all pretty reasonable at absorbing the bumps... but the steering and particularly the clutch are just sooooo heavy for such a small car. Not to mention the driving position is horrible if you're anything bigger than a midget.

Yes, the driving position is a tad bus like - lol
A mate had a 172, the only problem it seem to have was the gap between 2nd and 3rd when attacking a steep mountain road (Oxley hwy). 2nd was too short... 3rd too tall. My Astra SRI of the same period had a similar problem. My old Pug 306GTI6 (with a 6 speed box) did not :)

[break]

2nd was too short... 3rd too tallThis isn't actually a big issue in the 172's... you just have ignore redline and wait for fuel cut instead :D :P

[Gambit]

My old 172 was fantastic low down felt very torquey for a n/a setup, and felt more raw and chuckable than the polo gti. Miss it .

[Buller_Scott]

Anyone read the latest Wheels? From that report, though the Clio is more viceral... the Polo did a faster lap and qas quicker in a straight line.
I think the Megane RS250 is well worth the extra

i just read that article, and saw the hillclimb times. the polo haunted hills time was 62.41 sec, the clio's was 62.47 sec...

couple of questions to anyone who might know:

1. can you left foot brake in the polo 6R? because in my 9N3, you cant - if you have both the accelerator and the brake depressed at the same time, then the computer cuts in and drops the engine to idle speed until your foot has released the brake pedal, and has been off the brake pedal for like 3 or so seconds.

2. if you CANT left foot brake in the 6r gti, then does that mean that, as a control, they didnt left foot brake in any of the other cars either (particularly the clio, whose lap time might benefit from better driving)?

curious....

[JaneAusten]

i just read that article, and saw the hillclimb times. the polo haunted hills time was 62.41 sec, the clio's was 62.47 sec...

couple of questions to anyone who might know:

1. can you left foot brake in the polo 6R? because in my 9N3, you cant - if you have both the accelerator and the brake depressed at the same time, then the computer cuts in and drops the engine to idle speed until your foot has released the brake pedal, and has been off the brake pedal for like 3 or so seconds.

2. if you CANT left foot brake in the 6r gti, then does that mean that, as a control, they didnt left foot brake in any of the other cars either (particularly the clio, whose lap time might benefit from better driving)?

curious....

The 6R GTI comes as 7 speed DSG standard, manual not available... I suspect left foot braking isn't going to work as well...

[break]

Even if the 6R doesn't have left foot braking disabled like the 9N3, I don't think it would have made a difference... the lack of torque really would have hurt the Clio.

Regardless, the Clio has never been about the performance figures... it's always been about the driving experience. I mean, I've been so frustrated with the rear wheel bearing dramas I've only just resolved this week with my Clio, was really fed up with the car as a whole.... until I took it out tonight to get fuel and blow out the cobwebs. 5mins of hard driving and I had a huge smile on my face and once again remembered why I put up with a Renault :P

[Buller_Scott]

Even if the 6R doesn't have left foot braking disabled like the 9N3, I don't think it would have made a difference... the lack of torque really would have hurt the Clio.

Regardless, the Clio has never been about the performance figures...

i agree that the clio's figures are laughable by today's standards when it comes to other hatches, but at the same time, there's plenty out of stuff on the web that speaks to the clio's awesome handling (e.g. clio taking down stg 2+ focus st, even mitsu evo 9's around nurburgring)...

hell, even with my very limited experience, comparing the mk6 gti around sandown on the driver day last year, with a simple test drive of the clio on the road (with a dealer who wanted me to play with it, thankfully), it's pretty obvious that a mk6 gti aint got **** on a clio when it comes time to hook it in.

i just cant stop thinking that, if the 6R has left foot braking disabled, and the clio were to be driven by a left foot braker, that there might have been more in it than a 0.06sec deficit for the clio...

[Gambit]

True but if you look at the options list for a 172 it's nothing to sneeze at even by today's standards ie rain sensing wipers, xenons. Try and option that into a comparable hatch today.

[GTI JOE]

Just read the Head to Head article in this Saturdays Age, Drive Section.
Polo GTI v Golf GTI.
The Polo only wins one category, VALUE and the GOLF wins the next 5 categories INSIDE, ENGINE, PERFORMANCE, HOW IT DRIVES and VERDICT.
I think there are some valid points raised, but they service two different markets. I am of course biased, as perhaps I suspect the columnist, Jez Spinks is. At the end of the day, I feel it's all about "bang for buck"...you get a lot more from the Polo. They both deserve the GTI badge:)

Not the best review I have read, pretty basic and not very informative. I'm afraid Mr Spinks........stinks;)

[break]

True but if you look at the options list for a 172 it's nothing to sneeze at even by today's standards ie rain sensing wipers, xenons. Try and option that into a comparable hatch today.It sounds great on paper, until your rain sensor detaches itself from the windscreen, the CD stacker jams disks, and your climate control fan in the roof light control panel starts making a really fricken annoying whirring noise.

So yeah, those options on a German car would be fantastic... but when the French do them it just becomes more things to go wrong :P

[Gambit]

It sounds great on paper, until your rain sensor detaches itself from the windscreen, the CD stacker jams disks, and your climate control fan in the roof light control panel starts making a really fricken annoying whirring noise.

So yeah, those options on a German car would be fantastic... but when the French do them it just becomes more things to go wrong :P

Looks like you got a lemon, and there are many french examples of that hahaha!
But in all my years of ownership of my 172 not one of those issues crept in. its like playing russian roulette, you take your chances.
Anyhow the comparison was on standard base inclusions against what you option in dollar for dollar. Just goes to show that comparable differences between certain marques.. :)

[break]

Looks like you got a lemon, and there are many french examples of that hahaha!
But in all my years of ownership of my 172 not one of those issues crept in. its like playing russian roulette, you take your chances.
Anyhow the comparison was on standard base inclusions against what you option in dollar for dollar. Just goes to show that comparable differences between certain marques.. :)I started to think the same thing, but it could just be the age (130k on the clock now)... and given the things that have failed are minor fixes I'm not particularly worried.

Still, you can't expect German build quality from a budget French hatch

[domlebo70]

I started to think the same thing, but it could just be the age (130k on the clock now)... and given the things that have failed are minor fixes I'm not particularly worried.

Still, you can't expect German build quality from a budget French hatch
You can, just prepare to be VERY disappointed :P

[bigfoot]

a comparo in the SMH today

Head to Head - Volkswagen Polo GTI v Volkswagen Golf GTI (http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/head-to-head--volkswagen-polo-gti-v-volkswagen-golf-gti-20110225-1b8c0.html)

[Gambit]

Read that today, despite all the shortcomings, the Polo GTI is the better mannered road car day to day in city traffic with great fuel economy to boot !

[GTI JOE]

a comparo in the SMH today

Head to Head - Volkswagen Polo GTI v Volkswagen Golf GTI (http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/head-to-head--volkswagen-polo-gti-v-volkswagen-golf-gti-20110225-1b8c0.html)

Was in Saturdays Age's Drive section in Melbourne:)

[sabloke]

Here is the article backing up the video: (https://picasaweb.google.com/sabloke/HotHatchesEVOMarch2011?authkey=Gv1sRgCNm44LOzq4rKU A&feat=directlink) in EVO mag March 2011.

Hope you can read it. Where can I post higher res version?