Amarok Criticisms

[phaeton]

We all know no car is perfect and everyone has their individual opinion so here is a list I've complied from speaking to other customers today.

1) no map pockets in the back of the front seats.

2) no multifunction steering wheel as an option.

3) glove box is small.

4) no storage under rear seat (double cab) [Transporter double cab has this standard].

5) side bump strips (for those shopping centre excursions).

[Peter Jones]

I don't own one.
They don't come in red.

Other wise I don't think I'd change anything.

[flyingfridge]

I don't own one.
They don't come in red.

Other wise I don't think I'd change anything.

ditto here!

[Sharkie]

If it came with the 3.0TDI V6 I'd buy that above anything else .... :(

[idaho]

Rear drum brakes and leaf springs on the upmarket models. Nissan and Landrover could make utes with rear discs and coils on live axles. If VW did it it would set them a level above the opposition. I am sure the handling, when unloaded, would also be better.

[2dr Evangalist]

- No 132kw (or higher) engine option at Launch

[phaeton]

Actually this thread should be called the 'wishlist' with all thats been posted so far :D

I want a Dakar Amarok :P

[2dr Evangalist]

Rear drum brakes and leaf springs on the upmarket models. Nissan and Landrover could make utes with rear discs and coils on live axles. If VW did it it would set them a level above the opposition. I am sure the handling, when unloaded, would also be better.

Leaf springs can be setup to do a pretty good job,
BUT
add a set of Polyair air bags and THEN u r cooking.
I have written Polyair enquiring about availabilty of kits for `Roks, will keep eveyone posted
Cheers
Nick

[Jarred]

I don't own one.
They don't come in red.

Other wise I don't think I'd change anything.



nothing a respray and a bank loan wont fix! :D

[Seano]

The Transporter (including the cab chassis versions) has had rear discs and a rear suspension that is coil sprung (with a 1000kg payload) and live axle since the late 90's so VW could do it too.

But they won't....because there'd be little to differentiate the more expensive Transporter from what was originally supposed to be a 'developing markets' (AKA budget) utility vehicle.

In terms of what the Amarok is missing and/or criticism.....it's missing a perception of simplicity, lacks the necessary dealer penetration outside urban areas, no single cab (yet), no auto gearbox (yet), no factory cab chassis, no ultra budget (ie volume) 2wd version, high spec versions are very bland compared the bling versions of Jap utes (I prefer bland but show ponies don't), needs a factory 'slammed' 2wd (or AWD) option.....

....and the tyres on the low range 4Motion (4Lotion? FlawMotion?) versions we've seen here appear to be road tyres....useless

Uber Ute marketing concept.............is way stupid.

[team_v]

Pretty uncomfy looking (read: commercial) seating compared to basic cloth seats in my car.
Lack of MFSW which looks out of place now that i have one.

[Transporter]

The Transporter (including the cab chassis versions) has had rear discs and a rear suspension that is coil sprung (with a 1000kg payload) and live axle since the late 90's so VW could do it too.

But they won't....because there'd be little to differentiate the more expensive Transporter from what was originally supposed to be a 'developing markets' (AKA budget) utility vehicle.

In terms of what the Amarok is missing and/or criticism.....it's missing a perception of simplicity, lacks the necessary dealer penetration outside urban areas, no single cab (yet), no auto gearbox (yet), no factory cab chassis, no ultra budget (ie volume) 2wd version, high spec versions are very bland compared the bling versions of Jap utes (I prefer bland but show ponies don't), needs a factory 'slammed' 2wd (or AWD) option.....

....and the tyres on the low range 4Motion (4Lotion? FlawMotion?) versions we've seen here appear to be road tyres....useless

Uber Ute marketing concept.............is way stupid.

What's your curent ute or van? If, I can ask.
I'm sure they did some market research.

[sh|tbmxrider]

Jeez people, its a WORK UTE.

It competes with Hilux/Navara/D-Max/Colorado/Triton... And competes well.

Im not entirely sure what you expect?

[Seano]

What's your curent ute or van? If, I can ask.
I'm sure they did some market research.

Transporter Dual Cab 2.5TDi syncro.......

Don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing the Amarok because I think it is crap or flawed or whatever. I'm sure it is a perfectly good vehicle when it is considered against its target market - it certainly has the range. And I'm very certain that VW AG did its market research in this respect.

However, it appears to me that few here on this forum or within VWoA appear to have read or taken notice of that market research.

Put simply.....the Amarok is not supposed to be a Tiguan (or a Touareg) with a tray, it is a commercial vehicle. And like the Caddy it is an entry level VW commercial vehicle. In both cases, if you want the more powerful TDi engine and a fancy coil rear end then spend another ten grand or so on a Transporter ute or van. That's what VW WANT you to do.

By all means, VW should be offering bling versions of the ute because that is where the action is in this class....but I reckon they are too understated. There's little to seperate the basic version from Highline unless you are a trainspotter - you'd never make that mistake with a Jap ute. By the same token, the basic version doesn't have the perception of rugged simplicity that a Toyota Workmate does.

The really amusing thing to me is that our local VW dealer is also a Great Wall and Mitsubishi dealer - I know they sell many more of the GW utes than the Triton and most likely the forthcoming Amarok.....indeed, they even 'recommend' the GW over the Triton and the Amarok will almost certainly get the same treatment. The GW utes are similarly (or even better) featured and many thousands cheaper to buy and operate and as I've heard many GW owners around here say "...it's just a ute, so why pay more?".

All the research in the world is useless unless it is taken advantage of....

[phaeton]

Transporter Dual Cab 2.5TDi syncro.......

Don't get me wrong. I'm not dissing the Amarok because I think it is crap or flawed or whatever. I'm sure it is a perfectly good vehicle when it is considered against its target market - it certainly has the range. And I'm very certain that VW AG did its market research in this respect.

However, it appears to me that few here on this forum or within VWoA appear to have read or taken notice of that market research.

Put simply.....the Amarok is not supposed to be a Tiguan (or a Touareg) with a tray, it is a commercial vehicle. And like the Caddy it is an entry level VW commercial vehicle. In both cases, if you want the more powerful TDi engine and a fancy coil rear end then spend another ten grand or so on a Transporter ute or van. That's what VW WANT you to do.

By all means, VW should be offering bling versions of the ute because that is where the action is in this class....but I reckon they are too understated. There's little to seperate the basic version from Highline unless you are a trainspotter - you'd never make that mistake with a Jap ute. By the same token, the basic version doesn't have the perception of rugged simplicity that a Toyota Workmate does.

The really amusing thing to me is that our local VW dealer is also a Great Wall and Mitsubishi dealer - I know they sell many more of the GW utes than the Triton and most likely the forthcoming Amarok.....indeed, they even 'recommend' the GW over the Triton and the Amarok will almost certainly get the same treatment. The GW utes are similarly (or even better) featured and many thousands cheaper to buy and operate and as I've heard many GW owners around here say "...it's just a ute, so why pay more?".

All the research in the world is useless unless it is taken advantage of....

I know what your saying everyone is expecting the Amarok to be car like as this is where the segment is going, honestly the Amarok is a commercial vehicle through and through.

Trendline vs Highline not much difference other than bigger wheels, chrome, higher grade air con and radio - I would be expecting something very soon to happen, Argentine sources report a sports variant is imminent as well as another power BiTDI.

[worm]

Have you guys sat in one?
Inside they are far better than the rest (including hilux). The sales guy was 6foot 6inches and had room in the back. both the driver and passenger can use the front arm rest at the same time, its very spacious. Its quiet also. The gear shifter is just like the golf, very slick and short. The clutch is light. It has a cam belt but only needs changing every 200,000kms. 15,000kms service intervals is ok also. Over one ton payload. Rear dif lock on all models. It seems low to the ground though, would do well with a lift and big wheels.
Looks the goods on paper and priced well. We have a brand new D-max and I can tell you that the VW is far superior in comfort/build/equipment.
If it drives as good as it felt when I was in it then it will be a fantastic vehicle... Im dubious about the pricing though. I doubt it will be cheaper than D-max which is around $38,000 for the base model twin cab. If the VW IS $36,000 they will sell well.

[worm]

Oh, ARB will have a full list of parts available when it goes on sale. They have been working on parts for 12 months according to the VW sales person.

[team_v]

I know what your saying everyone is expecting the Amarok to be car like as this is where the segment is going, honestly the Amarok is a commercial vehicle through and through.

Trendline vs Highline not much difference other than bigger wheels, chrome, higher grade air con and radio - I would be expecting something very soon to happen, Argentine sources report a sports variant is imminent as well as another power BiTDI.

How many people are going to own one to use as a proper commercial vehicle though?
If i had to pick between a Hilux and an Amarok for my business i would be going the hilux because i now that i could get it fixed anywhere in Australia and it doesn't have a million electronic gizmo's that could lead to a week of down time on the vehicle required for a business.

I also would not be comfortable taking this thing (or my current VW for that matter) across Australia as every country town has a toyota and a holden dealership but not many have a VW dealership (maybe 2 or 3)


I want the amarok to succeed but i don't think it will be utilised as a commercial vehicle, more of a family workhorse which is why i was saying the creature comforts are lacking imho.

[Transporter]

There are a lot of businesses who's vehicles never leave the capital city, so it shouldn't be a problem. Also for many businesses the image is important and current Hilux is soooo ugly. I think that Amarok has a good chance, especially if it would be cheaper than Hilux.

[phaeton]

How many people are going to own one to use as a proper commercial vehicle though?
If i had to pick between a Hilux and an Amarok for my business i would be going the hilux because i now that i could get it fixed anywhere in Australia and it doesn't have a million electronic gizmo's that could lead to a week of down time on the vehicle required for a business.

I also would not be comfortable taking this thing (or my current VW for that matter) across Australia as every country town has a toyota and a holden dealership but not many have a VW dealership (maybe 2 or 3)


I want the amarok to succeed but i don't think it will be utilised as a commercial vehicle, more of a family workhorse which is why i was saying the creature comforts are lacking imho.

I don't know, I think VW will have more luck in the lifestyle sector of this segment than the commercial.
As seano stated when there are workhorse options that are cheaper most consumers will go the cheap option, after all its just a ute.

Saying the above though VW in the spec sheets that the dealer handed out will have a base version for the hard work and fleets most likely.
I beleive Amarok buyers will be educated consumers and will have researched more than the competitor buyers.

Obviously VWs biggest downfall is dealer support in country areas but Jutta and Anke have stated VW are targetting country dealers for more growth area.

My reasoning for possibly buying this vehicle is for touring the outback. As I went on an expedition last year with 20 odd old VWs to Hawker, Arkaroola, Yunta, Broken Hill and Wentworth, we have an amazing country people.

[Seano]

How many people are going to own one to use as a proper commercial vehicle though?

Exactly the problem as I see it. Not many. As you and others pointed out as well....on first glance the Amarok is being marketed at the sports utility sector rather than the volume commercial vehicle sector. And for that you need muscular bling and the perception of tonnes of engine power....neither of which the high spec Amaroks have. They can be comfy places to be by all means but if they don't rate on paper then it's going to hard to get the average family ute buyer in the door in the first place.

I suspect the current marketing approach is due to limited volumes available and the desire to maximise the margins available from such small volumes (which will prevent the Amarok from making any sort of real sales impact anyway). However, without even trying to develop a true commercial reputation for the Amarok then VWoA run the risk of the Amarok being seen as merely a Tiguan with a tray. Which patently isn't true.

The other thing about dealer support. We know you don't actually need a dealer in every town. I've spent enough time out and about in this country to know that. But perception rules.....not sure how VWoA are going to beat that.

[pumped]

Needs More Tray

[flyingfridge]

Sorry but you guys are barking up the wrong tree a bit.

Everybody I have shown the car over the last few days is nothing but incredibly impressed with it. Almost all of my customers are intending to use it as a work vehicle (except for the odd grey nomad who wants to swap the Passat & Landcruiser for one car). Its also easy to talk about country people not trusting it and the lack of dealer network, however, as with all new products it needs to gain a foothold in populated markets first (cities) before there is enough volume to justify investment to grow the network outside heavily populated areas. Early adopters are usually city based and the country people who want one early are generally flexible to get what they want. Still, keep an eye out, in the next few years there will be VW dealerships popping up in many places. There is already one that has opened recently in Horsham and eastern victoria is reasonably well covered so it won't take long before you see a better coverage. don't forget VW Commercial Vehicles as a brand is still reasonably new to Australia in comparison to most.

It's also easy to have a crack at the decision to use a leaf spring and drum brake rear. There are reasons for both. With regard to leaf springs, it's important that the Amarok sells in big numbers to rural markets in South America - its most vital market worldwide. Farmers there don't care about published payloads and sticking to them so they'll throw whatever they can fit on the back of them and if it can't do it then that's the mark of a weak truck in their eyes. (ie. Patrol with coils) to be up to this level of toughness, leaf is a must.
I was enlightened today by one of our mechanics (who is an avid offroad enthusiast) who explained to me why all good 4wds have drum brakes and anything that doesn't is useless. Drum brakes work properly in water and disc brakes don't. Think about it, you seal a brake drum and the friction surfaces remain dry, a disc brake is exposed to whatever the terrain throws at them.

just Re: team-v's post about the seats, I'm driving a Tiguan as my daily at the moment and the Amarok seat ****s all over my tiggy seat from a great height. (I do agree about the multifunction steering wheel and where the f is it? comments though)

[phaeton]

Well said Sam :)

VW Commercial Vehicles a new brand in Australia ?????

In the 80s when VW were non existant it was the T3 Vans that held up the VW name.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Phil Clark has been VWCV boss since around 2001 so everything since then has been separated from the Passenger division.

Saying the above though I know what you mean eg new commercial only dealerships etc.

[flyingfridge]

Yes, it is relatively new. The T3 wasn't really sold here officially for long at it was only the late '90s when VWCV was re-established locally. Have a look at the roads there's a big hole in VW vans between the early '80s and the late '90s. You'll notice it when you look for it - a great example is when you look closely there are no T4 v1 people movers, they're all the later long nose version.

[flyingfridge]

Anyone got any last minute quick questions while it's here and I can get to the car? Pretty sure VW are picking it up later today....

[phaeton]

Take some photos of your demo please Sam :D

[flyingfridge]

just uploaded a shedload from my camera that I took yesterday, will resize and post shortly ;)

[Seano]

S
I was enlightened today by one of our mechanics (who is an avid offroad enthusiast) who explained to me why all good 4wds have drum brakes and anything that doesn't is useless. Drum brakes work properly in water and disc brakes don't. Think about it, you seal a brake drum and the friction surfaces remain dry, a disc brake is exposed to whatever the terrain throws at them.

I understand (and support) the leaf spring and drum brake design.

But you are overselling the drum brake. For starters.....they are not sealed. They can and do get wet and muddy on the inside. And their performance suffers as a result. Even dry they don't stop as well as a disc. That said they are typically more robust than a disc. And they do still work for quite some time without sustaining damage even when caked in thick mud.

Situated as they are in the rear axle then it is pretty unlikely that an owner would need to replace the rear shoes more than once in ten years unless the thing had proper commercial weight carrying use. And the drums themselves would last nearly forever.

[worm]

I dont buy the dealer network/unproven/hilux is tougher argument.
If everyone went by that theory we would all be driving Holdens/Fords and thats it. Even the mighty hilux would take a back seat as at one stage it wasn't proven.
If you limit yourself to one brand you really do miss out on what could be a better vehicle. I do genuinely think the Amarok will challenge the best of the 4wd/commercial market. VW dont make a bad car ATM IMO.... and im not really biased as I haven't owned one since my mk1 days.

[flyingfridge]

pics are here http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f130/amarok-pictures-videos-45403-3.html#post618210 :)