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Crispy
24-01-2011, 03:56 PM
Hi all.

Just recently picked up a new polo. The dealer said there were no specific requirements in terms of breaking in the new engine.

My brother-in-law told me to drive it fairly hard, and constantly vary my speed for the first 1000 kms with no cruise control.

I have tried to find some documentation without success.
Any ideas?

Johnbu
24-01-2011, 04:27 PM
Your brother in law is correct.

Just make sure it's warmed up, then drive it hard.

Crispy
24-01-2011, 06:28 PM
Your brother in law is correct.

Just make sure it's warmed up, then drive it hard.

Thanks or your quick reply.

polojared
24-01-2011, 06:57 PM
I've used cruise control a fair bit, its no different to staying on a steady speed using your foot. VW told me the engines are run in at the factory. Btw, I have also being giving it to my Polo. They seem to love it.

Brian916
24-01-2011, 08:01 PM
There are two schools of thought. Be gentle as possible or drive it like you stole it.

Theory one is about being gentle and giving everything a chance to warm up and wear in. Was important when it was important to condition metals that were poorly cast. Not so important now.

Theory two is about getting the most power by making the best ring/bore seal. Rings only seal through pressure in the combustion chamber, and the only way to get that is to have high load/revs with lots of 'bang' from lots of air/fuel. Most engines, the theory goes, are today built to similar specs as a custom built race engine about 10yrs ago. Race engines are run through a gentle warm up cycle, and then get run on a brake dyno up to red line 3 or 4 times, then idled to stabilise temperature, shut down, and the oil drained for an analysis in the lab - looking for particles in it, and break down of the oil.

I've used the latter for the last few motorcyles I've bought, and consistantly met or exceded the claimed power output for the model. Others with the 'be gentle' I know that have done the dyno challenge have been below or just at claimed power.

If you don' have a dyno, it's suggested to run the car/bike in 3rd gear from idle to red line, full throttle (don't bounce of the limiter), three times, then gently home (or to dealer) for an oil/filter change.

Oh, my bikes run in this way have also used far less oil than others too - ring/bore seal means less get's past the rings to burn.

Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) has thoughts of a race bike builder - been using his 'secrets' for years.

stucam
24-01-2011, 08:20 PM
A fascinating article/webzine. Would a new GTi come loaded with synthetic oil as opposed to valvoline etc. Is this an issue only for bikes? S

Transporter
24-01-2011, 08:37 PM
Hi all.

Just recently picked up a new polo. The dealer said there were no specific requirements in terms of breaking in the new engine.

My brother-in-law told me to drive it fairly hard, and constantly vary my speed for the first 1000 kms with no cruise control.

I have tried to find some documentation without success.
Any ideas?

You should be searching for a new engine running in instead of wear-in. :)

pologti18t
24-01-2011, 08:54 PM
Best advice is:

Don't leave it idling for any length of time. Warmup should be done under gentle driving, not idling.
Don't run the car in during peak hour. Worst conditions ever for a new engine. Therefore best to pick a new car up on a Saturday then take it for a nice run before returning home.

I think most new performance cars come filled with synthetic oil. Whether you change this at manufacturers intervals or 1/2 them is up to you. If you expect to keep the car 3-5yrs and <100000km I wouldn't bother doing extra synthetic oil changes. The only person that may benefit is some other owner down the track :)

I've followed the routine that Brian suggested above on a couple of bikes (ZX6R, GSXR750) and the engines do seem to rev freely and use minimal oil between changes.

When I got my Polo GTI in 2006.. the first run-in trip I did was nearly 1000km from Sydney to Walcha and back via the Oxley Highway, i did give it a hammering once warmed fully. To this day the engine revs cleanly to the red line and uses minimal oil between changes. Even the gearbox has behaved itself (know problem on that model). As Brian said... its all about keeping load on the engine (both acceleration AND deceleration). So I did all the tricks like popping it in 3,4 and 5 on the freeway and accelerating hard (squeeze throttle not jab it) from about 60-120... then taking the foot totally off the accelerator and letting the engine decelerate the car. Apparently that is also good for the gearbox bedding in.

GTi Crow
25-01-2011, 07:55 AM
I have a fairly easy 27 klm run to work in 60kph speed limited areas. To run in my Polo 77TSI (as I did with my Golf GTI) I use cruise control a lot - but manually (with a DSG) change the gear so that the motor is reving at different speeds every few minutes from the 1100 up to over 4000+ on regular cycles with the occasional burst to 5000 or more. All the time cruising at 65kph on the speedo (which equates to 60/61 on GPS). First 200 klm was done as country running varying speed up to 110 kph. I found this worked really well for my cars and have not had any excessive oil usage and no motor or acceleration issues.

gavs
25-01-2011, 12:07 PM
Hmmm, so when the GTI gets here, I buy some mineral oil and a new filter, drain out the synthetic oil, fill it with the mineral stuff, take it for a spirited drive up to Chum Creek road and home or through the back of Eltham/Warrandyte making sure to put plenty of load through the engine, drain the oil, put on the new filter and put a new lot of synthetic in it. That correct?

noone
25-01-2011, 12:09 PM
Overkill. I would not redline it for the first few thousand, but otherwise lots of flat foot.

brad
25-01-2011, 12:39 PM
I must say, this is a great idea for a thread. I don't think engine run-in has been discussed a lot before..... probably because nobody really has an opinion on the subject.

GTi Crow
25-01-2011, 01:18 PM
I must say, this is a great idea for a thread. I don't think engine run-in has been discussed a lot before..... probably because nobody really has an opinion on the subject.

This subject tends to pop up at some stage in most threads for specific cars within this forum, although more when the model is new rather than ongoing, so if you were a keen searcher you could find them. To me there is a simple rule - don't baby it, don't overdrive it and just make sure you use most of the rev range regularly during the first 1,000 klm. Works for me.

brad
25-01-2011, 02:27 PM
This subject tends to pop up at some stage in most threads for specific cars within this forum, although more when the model is new rather than ongoing, so if you were a keen searcher you could find them.
:facepalm:
10char

kaanage
25-01-2011, 02:40 PM
Apparently that is also good for the gearbox bedding in.

Yes, the high loading periods helps grind off any high spots in the gear assemblies, quickly while the unloaded periods help the surrounding areas cool down so that the heat treatment isn't locally affected. Constant low loading will wear down these spots slowly so there is more localised heat build up with the possible damage to the heat treatment of the parts.

A school friend's dad used to race touring cars (back in the '70s) and he said that the best engines and gearboxes were always the ones that they ran in at Bathurst.

Transporter
25-01-2011, 02:53 PM
This subject tends to pop up at some stage in most threads for specific cars within this forum, although more when the model is new rather than ongoing, so if you were a keen searcher you could find them. To me there is a simple rule - don't baby it, don't overdrive it and just make sure you use most of the rev range regularly during the first 1,000 klm. Works for me.

Brad is just a bit sarcastic :P Every model section has a new car running in thread. :google:

Brian916
25-01-2011, 04:09 PM
I've been known to drop the synth out of engines, refill with dino, and after the run in period, switch to synth. I had a Honda Blackbird I bought with 3000km on it, and it had been run in the way I do it and motoman suggetst. But I put dino in it for 1000km anyway to complete the runin. Synth is just soooooo damn good it it's rediculous. One article in a magazine several years ago by a GP engine builder, the guy said that after testing rebuilt engines using synth, they found that after the normal run in period (a couple of hours on an engine dyno), the engine was NOT run it much at all. Some of the machining marks they wanted to get red of for racing were still present. So, under VERY carefully controlled conditions, they began to do the run in with dino, then the best synth for racing.

Oh, in case somebody needs to ask : Dino = dinosaur = out of the ground, refined, additive package.

You used to be able to buy 'running in' oil that was a premium base stock oil with no additive package at all to run for the first 500 - 1000km for just that reason - It was considered that the additives made the running in longer.

As an aside, a mechanic freind believes that a gently run modern motorcyle engine could take up to 10,000km to completely run in on synth - he has some very gentle riders for customers, who don't believe you should run over 4000rpm....... Why would they put the red ling at 14,000 if they didn't want you to go there? Huh?

Souljak
25-01-2011, 07:30 PM
This topic pops up on almost all car forums at some stage in another. My 2 cents though.

Just drive normal first 1000 km's, then after that post first service give her some stick ... I dont know why it would be any harder than that.
Some car enthusiasts take this topic to such an enth degree its borderline OCD, taking into consideration I would want to keep my car in tip top shape too. Just no need to get too paranoid about it.

break
26-01-2011, 10:48 PM
Ignore all the conjecture being thrown around this thread.

You *need* to give your car properly timed full throttle high-rpm bursts as part of the run in to ensure the piston rings seal properly.

This is the bible you should use: Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power (http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm)

noone
27-01-2011, 01:46 PM
I don't see how people are comparing methods... Someone does it one way, the car works well, so that must have been the right way? You could likely do close to the opposite in an identical car, I wonder who could pick the difference?

break
27-01-2011, 10:52 PM
I'd bet if you did a compression test on two motors after 100k, one properly run-in, one not, that you'd see a measurable amount of compression loss in the poorly run in motor.

stucam
28-01-2011, 09:12 AM
Hi dubbas. I searched for an appropriate place for this, however: I live in metro melb and am looking for a great drive to run a new GTI in. I don't want to go hours into the country but I would be interested in a challenging and useful drive route if anyone cares to share one. Sorry if this is a stupid newbie question. S

markwid
28-01-2011, 09:32 AM
Hi dubbas. I searched for an appropriate place for this, however: I live in metro melb and am looking for a great drive to run a new GTI in. I don't want to go hours into the country but I would be interested in a challenging and useful drive route if anyone cares to share one. Sorry if this is a stupid newbie question. S

Same here. I am also looking for suggestions for run-in drives for Sydney North Shore.

Hail22
28-01-2011, 11:20 AM
Same here. I am also looking for suggestions for run-in drives for Sydney North Shore.

Easy, late night cruise through Northern Beaches to Bowlgalah, then head back up to your area via Roseville.

markwid
28-01-2011, 11:35 AM
Easy, late night cruise through Northern Beaches to Bowlgalah, then head back up to your area via Roseville.
Thanks. I am not so sure about the late night cruise - for a spirited drive, I would want to avoid the cops on night patrol. Prefer a day drive.

Also probably need a longer drive than Balgowlah. What would you suggest a bit further, northwards?

kaanage
28-01-2011, 11:45 AM
Melbourne, Eastern side.
Try this route (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=-37.92238,145.18965+to:Belgrave-Gembrook+Rd+to:Warburton+Hwy+to:Warburton-Woods+Point+Rd+to:Murchison+St+to:Maroondah+Hwy+to :-37.7181,145.38607+to:Maroondah+Hwy&hl=en&geocode=FWJqvf0dHPOmCA%3BFbRZvf0dEmunCClr00llmRXWa jFwcWrsdFYEEw%3BFaozvf0dgjqrCA%3BFXjwv_0ddh6vCA%3B FXIewf0d6KGxCA%3BFWylw_0dr_GvCA%3BFbZpwf0d41SsCA%3 BFax3wP0dVmqqCCl_sBoBZCzWajEsz6LNKHBg_w%3BFUDvvv0d oDynCA&mra=mi&mrcr=1,2&mrsp=3&sz=19&via=1,7&sll=-37.752818,145.694171&sspn=0.001048,0.00195&ie=UTF8&ll=-37.753344,145.69519&spn=0.536383,0.998383&z=10)

Or you could do 40 repeats of the Kew Boulevard..

alias_vw
28-01-2011, 11:53 AM
Thanks. I am not so sure about the late night cruise - for a spirited drive, I would want to avoid the cops on night patrol. Prefer a day drive.

Also probably need a longer drive than Balgowlah. What would you suggest a bit further, northwards?

Maybe up into the Kuringai Chase National Park?

Head to Mona Vale, up Mona Vale Rd to Terrey Hills, along McCarrs Creek Rd onto Liberator General San Martin Dve, around past Illawong and Akuna Bays then onto West Head Rd, up to the end and back then onto McCarrs Creek Rd again for a drive past Church Point and Bayview then back home? You'd still need to watch out for the police (assuming you were foolish enough to speed!) but it's a nice drive....did it last weekend myself.

Bear in mind that VW apparently do a run-in of the engine at the factory and you'd need to change your oil from synthetic to a dino to get any real value...

markwid
28-01-2011, 01:20 PM
Thanks. That looks like a better drive. Will do that.

Just want to give it a bit of load and varying rpms initially. I subscribe to drive it hard when new (of course after warm up). None of this babying it and keeping low rpms.

stucam
28-01-2011, 01:40 PM
Melbourne, Eastern side.
Try this route (http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Unknown+road&daddr=-37.92238,145.18965+to:Belgrave-Gembrook+Rd+to:Warburton+Hwy+to:Warburton-Woods+Point+Rd+to:Murchison+St+to:Maroondah+Hwy+to :-37.7181,145.38607+to:Maroondah+Hwy&hl=en&geocode=FWJqvf0dHPOmCA%3BFbRZvf0dEmunCClr00llmRXWa jFwcWrsdFYEEw%3BFaozvf0dgjqrCA%3BFXjwv_0ddh6vCA%3B FXIewf0d6KGxCA%3BFWylw_0dr_GvCA%3BFbZpwf0d41SsCA%3 BFax3wP0dVmqqCCl_sBoBZCzWajEsz6LNKHBg_w%3BFUDvvv0d oDynCA&mra=mi&mrcr=1,2&mrsp=3&sz=19&via=1,7&sll=-37.752818,145.694171&sspn=0.001048,0.00195&ie=UTF8&ll=-37.753344,145.69519&spn=0.536383,0.998383&z=10)

Or you could do 40 repeats of the Kew Boulevard..

Love the Boulevard, but 40 trips might be a stretch :). Thanks for the route. Looks promising. Is this a trip you have taken kaanage? Cheers, S.

Hoofee
28-01-2011, 02:19 PM
What dino oil would you recommend?

I'll be getting a 77tsi polo in April so I'm looking to do things right. Only get one chance to run it in properly.

pologti18t
28-01-2011, 03:07 PM
Thanks. I am not so sure about the late night cruise - for a spirited drive, I would want to avoid the cops on night patrol. Prefer a day drive.

Also probably need a longer drive than Balgowlah. What would you suggest a bit further, northwards?

Look up Wollombi on Whereis.com and drive there.

noone
29-01-2011, 08:50 AM
Either of the Syd boys breaking in a GTI? I'd love to come for a bit of a drive with you if you don't mind going an older brother raging along (9n3GTI)

If you have time, kuringai park to old Pacifc hwy is always fun

markwid
29-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Either of the Syd boys breaking in a GTI? I'd love to come for a bit of a drive with you if you don't mind going an older brother raging along (9n3GTI)

If you have time, kuringai park to old Pacifc hwy is always fun

No problems, but it will be a while more. New car is still on the ship. Should have it in my grimy hands early Apr.

Diesel_vert
29-01-2011, 02:22 PM
Hi all.

Just recently picked up a new polo. The dealer said there were no specific requirements in terms of breaking in the new engine.

My brother-in-law told me to drive it fairly hard, and constantly vary my speed for the first 1000 kms with no cruise control.

I have tried to find some documentation without success.
Any ideas?

Unless you can get in touch with the engineers at VW you'll never truly know. And "Break-In Secrets" make some valid points but don't treat it as gospel.

The main thing is not to stress about it, all you want to do is exercise the motor. Just go easy on the throttle before the engine is up to operating temperature. After that use the throttle as necessary, but avoid babying it excessively or using full throttle *all* the time.

And there's no need to change the oil at 1k or use mineral oil or whatever. Letting the factory fill (most likely to be a synthetic oil) run until the first scheduled service should allow the motor to wear in gradually and nicely. Just keep an eye on the oil level, top-up if necessary (with 504 oil (http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f112/why-you-need-use-504-507-oils-fsi-tsi-tdi-engines-47140.html)) and be sure to follow the distance or time interval (whichever you reach first) to the letter.

Happy motoring.

kaanage
30-01-2011, 01:28 AM
Thanks for the route. Looks promising. Is this a trip you have taken kaanage? Cheers, S.

We did a Polo 9N3 cruise a week before the Maroondah Dam cruise last year - it's basically the same route or you can extend by heading across from Healesville to Yarra Glen, then Kinglake via Yea then down to Whittlesea.

markwid
05-03-2011, 06:24 PM
Look up Wollombi on Whereis.com and drive there.

Thanks for the suggestion. Had some spare time and tried the route to Wollombi today. Quite a few sections of road that entertains. On the return leg, I took the F3 instead from Calga and was yawning away.

So, which is more dangerous? Single lane, two way that keeps you entertained and alert or 3 lane freeway that puts you to sleep?

tigtsi
19-04-2011, 09:16 PM
So has anyone gone to the trouble of using mineral oil for run in?

tigtsi
19-04-2011, 09:38 PM
I see that Penrite do a mineral 5w30 oil.
Apparently the VW recommended oils have a low Sulphated Ash content.
Would it hurt using a non VW recommended oil like the mineral 5w30 for the first 1000km to run in?
Thanks

Frostee
19-04-2011, 10:06 PM
Why would you choose not to follow manufacturer recommendation?

Diesel_vert
19-04-2011, 10:33 PM
I see that Penrite do a mineral 5w30 oil.
Apparently the VW recommended oils have a low Sulphated Ash content.
Would it hurt using a non VW recommended oil like the mineral 5w30 for the first 1000km to run in?
Thanks

Not that I know for sure, but probably.

- Using mineral oil in an engine that calls for synthetic oil as a minimum (as implied by VW spec 502.00 or 504.00) would be unwise.
- VW warns of risk of engine damage otherwise (may or may not be mentioned in the owner's handbook).
- VW would not look kindly on engine-related warranty claims should they discover you replaced the factory fill oil with an unapproved oil (mineral or otherwise) for the first 1,000 km.
- Engine and lubricant technology is constantly evolving, though we sometimes struggle to keep up to date.

Transporter
19-04-2011, 10:47 PM
I see that Penrite do a mineral 5w30 oil.
Apparently the VW recommended oils have a low Sulphated Ash content.
Would it hurt using a non VW recommended oil like the mineral 5w30 for the first 1000km to run in?
Thanks

I wouldn't use unapproved oil but, I've changed oil and oil filter in our new Tig at 1000km using the Mobil1 ESP 5W30.

tigtsi
20-04-2011, 07:41 AM
Thanks Diesel_vert & Transporter, after reading the "run-in secrets" article that seems to be mentioned a bit on the forum, i thought i would see if anyone else had gone that step further and put mineral oil in.

Transporter, how did the oil look? is the filter easy to access on the Tig?(off topic I Know) still waiting on mine to arrive.

Might be an idea to use a magnetic oil pan nut after 1st oil change.

brad
20-04-2011, 07:58 AM
I can't understand why anyone wouldn't take the easy road & follow the mfrs recomendations.
My run-in process was 45km of motorway on the way home from the dealer. 3rd gear - accelerate on half throttle up to about 110kmh then let it over-run back down to about 70kmh. Did that all the way home.
The next day I did a 400km round trip down the coast with the family on board. They would have spewed (both literally & figuratively) if I'd done the accelerate/decelerate process, so I just kept the revs between 2000-4000 and didn't bother with 6th gear. Changed the oil at 15,000km. Now at 70,000km - no oil usage, good power, good economy.

re: magnetic oil pan nut. What's the point if the car has an oil filter on it?