Death to the diesel

[hiho]

Hi all, **** news.
On our way back from Melbourne in our VW diesel which has just been rebuilt a radiator hose split open and the the radiator rapidly drained. The first i knew of anything being wrong was when it started to "run on" (when it runs on engine oil thrown into the intake by excessive blowby). It had never done this before. I calmed it down with the brakes but there was a horrible sound from the motor. I pulled over and opened the bonnet to find the radiator empty and the motor insanely hot. The temp gauge had only moved slightly away from its usual position and the idiot light did not come on.
One minute it was running fine, very light throttle to maintain a steady cruise, 30 minutes from home and then death. We got trucked home by RACV.
I started it tonight and altough it started ok it blows heaps of black smoke and runs rough as though its missing on one cylinder every now and then. I filled the radiator and located the leak, the hose that goes from the water pump to the head had a big split in it. After replacing the hose and restarting the motor, the coolant resevior bubbled and spat water everywhere.
Id say that the head is cracked and the bores badly scuffed, basically junk.
Like i said, **** news

[brackie]

My heart goes out to you mate :(

Same thing happened to me with a GLD. Burst hose, no indicaton on the temp gauge and then bang....Dead car.

Such a pity after all of the work and money that you put into it. Anything that I can do to help just sing out.

[evorobin]

Crap news mate. Chin up you'll find an engine just don't throw big $$$ at it.

[hiho]

Thanks Guys,
The weird thing about it was that we were on our way home after having just given a 1982 ford laser that used during the VW rebuild to a family near Camperdown. We didnt think that we needed it anymore and it was too rusty for a roadworthy. So much for good karma.

No matter what i do to my VW diesel Brackie, youve done it first. I think that the hose was weakened from diesel fuel over recent months with leaking injector pumps and numerous r&r of the injector pipes and hoses etc. The diesel fuel would soak the hoses there. For the diesel fans i strongly recommend replacing the hoses if you dont know the history of the car. I had this hose off recently and it appeared to be fine.

If i can be bothered ill whip the head off and have a look at the bores. Unfortunately my wife has had enough. I doubt that i could convince her that another engine is the way to go. Man i love that car, it looks like a heap but was so much fun to drive. Im off to england at the end of the year for work and plan to buy a MK 1 and put a TDI in it and take it to Germany and cut some laps at Nurburgring. That ought to make me feel a bit better!!

[brackie]

Thanks Guys,

No matter what i do to my VW diesel Brackie, you've done it first.

Yeah... and it's usually the bad things! How long in Europe? Would you be able to stay a year and bring a diesel back with you? That would sort of compensate us for the loss of a diesel here.

[gldgti]

bad luck mate....

i havnt done that, but in the last couple of months i've run out of coolant 4 times.... luckily each time, the very small increase in temp just as i'd run out was enough for me to pull over and check... and each time, no coolant - i've had a run of bad 2'nd hand hoses that were failing under normal warmed up pressurisation... but you get the idea...

i think we all need to find some kind of easily available CHT guage and develop a nice way for us to all integrate it into our diesels without breaking the bank etc. a CHT should be in everyones car..... i dont have one, but i'd love to put one in

[Edison]

I started it tonight and altough it started ok it blows heaps of black smoke and runs rough as though its missing on one cylinder every now and then. I filled the radiator and located the leak, the hose that goes from the water pump to the head had a big split in it. After replacing the hose and restarting the motor, the coolant resevior bubbled and spat water everywhere.
Id say that the head is cracked and the bores badly scuffed, basically junk.
Like i said, **** news

I am sure you should open her up first to see if that is the case, mine did the same when trying to start, and it was just the gasket. It let gas through into the coolant, the smoke and all is par for the course until she runs for 5 mins. any attempted starting = smoke upon actual starting.
If you don't want it, and reckon it's done for I'll pay shipping just to have it. for sure! check first, before you throw it out.

I so need to make a coolant level meter at tafe, and an oil level meter too! bring it all onto dials on the dash. and / or maybe an alarm for both.

[hiho]

Hello all, I whipped the head off again this evening (got my technique down pat).
The bores look fine and the cracks between the valves dont look any bigger. The head gasket has failed between the water jacket and No 2 and 3 cylinders. Tomorrow ill have the head checked and if it is okay crack wise ill have it machined and whack another (third for this rebuild) headgasket on it an bolt it back together.

If its not i have a spare head!

There may be life in my VW yet!!

[Oneofthegreats]

Sorry to hear the death of the diesel champ. Especially after mission's & hard work (which are memory's & can't be taken from you) you've been through with it.


I so need to make a coolant level meter at tafe, and an oil level meter too! bring it all onto dials on the dash. and / or maybe an alarm for both.

As for a coolant meter.

I'd buy, fit & wire up one out of a Mk1 GTI,mk2,3 et. to a warning light.

Mk1 coolant expansion tank 171 121 407F

Mk1 coolant level sensor (comes with o-ring. If not o-ring seal N 902 400 02) 215 919 372

For the oil level, I'd probably just hook up a oil temp guage. If it runs too hot (120+Degree's. The GTI runs @ 110 at times after a hard run) check your oil level

[brackie]

There may be life in my VW yet!!
I know it's going to be a pain, but if it were me I'd push the pistons out too. Just because the bores aren't scored (yet) it doesn't mean that you haven't got broken rings. Also check for head warpage and piston protrusion.

I'm really pleased that there's hope! :) :)

[smithy010]

Hiho, you'll be the expert of all experts in getting the old diesels back together again. Perhaps you should come up and help me time my little diesel!

[hiho]

Hi Smithy,

You can buy a dial indicator and adaptor for the injector pump on ebay but they are not cheap. Ive been using a friends dial indicator and adapter whenever i need to time a motor (which is often atm). I also have a dial indicator without the adapter and it is a loose fit in the injector pump, not an ideal way to set pump timing. I have succeeded with this method but it is a bit ****, i repeat the measurement about 5 times to ensure that the indicator hasnt moved and given me a dud reading. If you plan on owning the car for a while, get a dial indicator and adapter!! The proceedure for setting the timing is outlined in any workshop manual, do you have one? Also, there are three bolts that hold the pump to the front pump bracket (and one at the rear of the pump). The lower of the front bolts is very hard to get at with the alternator bracket in place. You can either adapt a 13mm spanner by cutting the end off at a ~45 degree angle and welding it back on so the end is at ~90 degrees to the handle. Otherwise you can remove your alternator and bracket but that is a real nuisance just for one bolt. I have not yet modified a spanner as described. I hope that this helps you
Matt

[brackie]

Hi Smithy,

You can either adapt a 13mm spanner by cutting the end off at a ~45 degree angle and welding it back on so the end is at ~90 degrees to the handle. Matt

The bent spanner is essential. ;)

We dieselers should buy a dial gauge and adapter, also a compression tester between us and share them around. Postage is <$10 anywhere in Oz.

[smithy010]

Hey, thanks! I didn't expect this to become a "Advice for smithy" thread. but all the advice and assurance you can give will be worth it.

I think i will get on the lathe when i go home and make an adaptor for my current dial gauge. Not sure what's involved yet, but when i do it, i'll yell out, and i might have time to make one for other people's dial indicators.

[mmciau]

On one of my prevoius cars, I installed a "manual water pressure" gauge. It was a full-circle dial and it was 0-20 lb/sq in.

It enabed me to get an "instant reading' if there was nil pressure at start up and if the engine was about to get real hot, the pressure gauge would go up to the pressure rating of the radiator cap and of course show 'blow off".

So if you get a split hose, the gauge would drop to zero. This is more reliable than the modern temperature sender which need to be immersed in coolant to work


Mike

[gldgti]

i might have said this before... infact i know i have, but you can time the pump dynamically...

with the bolts loosened off, engine at an idle with cold start lever pulled out, advance the pump just until the revs begin to drop off. then, retard the pump back between 1-1.5mm at the timing mark. tighten the bolts etc.... your done.

works for me!

cheers

aydan

[hiho]

mmciau, this is what i had in mind as an early warning system, has it proved effective?

Thanks

[hiho]

Over the weekend i straightened and refitted steel bumpers to my GLD and it looks great!! I also adjusted the tumblers in the driver side door lock so one key now opens all doors and starts the car. This is very easy to do, if anyone is interested i can put together a how to guide.
I also fitted an oil pressure gauge and plan to install either a CHT gauge or water pressure gauge. The heads (three of them) are at the workshop. None of them have decent guides, so a new set is going in. Once this motor is finished, i might as well have stuck a TD motor in it!!
Over the next week im fitting a set of dead straight doors and guards. Then all it needs is a coat of paint and it will be be a million bucks (what ive spent, not what its worth)
Thanks all for your interest and assistance

[hiho]

Hi Ayden,
I suspect that your method is sound, next time im timing a pump and have a gauge handy ill do it by hand/ear then measure the timing with the gauge just to calibrate my hand/ear. Also, are you running yours more advanced because you are running biodiesel? Also, what is the part No. of your gearbox?
Cheers
Matt

[mmciau]

mmciau, this is what i had in mind as an early warning system, has it proved effective?

Thanks

yes it was/is effective, especially if the gauge is a 'full circle" and say 0-20lb/sqin range. As I said, it will immediately show if there is a hole in the water system because there will be NIL pressure able to be generated.

this is important if you have a leak of coolant overnight. The temperature gauge sensor doesn't work unless it is immersed in coolant. If it was a "steam pocket, it wouldn't register but you're engine would be severley compromised.

mike

[gldgti]

i'm running it advanced for extra power.... :-)

not sure about the p/n on the box, next i'm under it i'll write it down.

[hiho]

Hi all, i just arrive home from my first trip in my VW with its new head,

IN A BUS!

Yup, thats right, shes stranded in Melbourne with thick grey glug in the radiator :(

I can only speculate on the cause at this stage, that either i somehow didnt put the head on correctly and oil was leaking into the water, or the last trip when the motor got scorchingly hot, the block cracked between the oil gallery and the water jacket (oil pressure running at 6.5kPa at 100kms/hr and 2.5kPa at idle when warm).

If its the former then i could probably fix it (at wits end though) however, if the oil gallery was leaking at the head gasket, wouldnt it leak down the side of the block too?

If its the latter, I will be selling the car as is and all the parts i have (car in melb, parts in Hamilton, west Vic)

[brackie]

Yup, thats right, shes stranded in Melbourne with thick grey glug in the radiator :(


This is a common fault with early diesels. The head gasket fails around the oil gallery and oil is injected into the coolant. It turns into a gluggy mess and blocks the radiator with predictable results. Sorry to hear about your bad luck (again).



If its the former then i could probably fix it (at wits end though) however, if the oil gallery was leaking at the head gasket, wouldnt it leak down the side of the block too?
There's usually a small amount of oil on the outer of the block but not rivers of it. I doubt very much if the head is cracked in this vicinity. I'd put my money on the gasket. Unfortuately if the motor's been overheated the head may be warped and then it's a throw away job. :(




If its the latter, I will be selling the car as is and all the parts i have (car in melb, parts in Hamilton, west Vic)
With your recent experience you could probably gave the head off in an hour and then you could check on the warpage and examine the gasket. My money's still on the gasket (I've replaced several that have failed in this area.) Trouble is, she's a long way away!
[/quote]

[hiho]

Thanks Brackie for your soothing words of wisdom. Tonight Im looking at a holden nova for $1100 with RWC for the wife.

The head that is on the car now is not the one that i cooked last time, it was too badly warped. This head received new exhaust valves and a set of guides. I will yank the head off and inspect it for warp. Is there any way to tell if the block is cracked?
Matt

[brackie]

No... It's difficult to test with the head off the motor. You could fill it to the top of the water jacket and see if the level goes down, look for water on the outside, but really it would probably only leak under pressure. The head is the weakest link in the motor so it's much more likely that it would crack/fail than the block would crack.