Advice after I put petrol in my TDI by accident!!

[jettadsg]

Distracted and talking to the other driver after a near miss in the service station forecourt, I accidently put petrol in my 2.0 Golf TDi and drove it. After about 3 blocks it shut down and I realised what I had done... aggghhh**$?
NRMA came and trucked thew car back to the depot. This happened on the Monday after Christmas and nothing is open until Wednesday. The nearest VW dealership is 80 Km away.
I would appreciate some advice
1) What sort of damage / repairs can I expect will need doing?
2) Should Iget the car taken to a VW service centre?
Regards,
jettadsg

[STV4SYT]

It's not a good thing. Probably best to call your insurance company first for advice.

http://motortorque.askaprice.com/articles/auto-0711/help-ive-put-petrol-in-a-diesel-engine-frequently-asked-questions.asp

[Transporter]

I'm sorry to hear that.

The no. 2) is the best option. They will also tell you what damage was done. The other alternative would be to drain the fuel system replace fuel filter and put diesel in the tank and see what happens. I would still get the car checked by VW. If you don't have DPF, I would put 1L of Lucas fuel additive to increase lubricity.

How much petrol did you put in? Did you just top up the tank?

[Greg Roles]

That's nasty, but I think I'd do what transporter suggets, drain out as much petrol as possible from the fuel tank / lines / injectors, replace with diesel, and pray!

[Buller_Scott]

can you drain the fuel from the tank / pump, cut off the diesel to the engine via a tdiclub-style luqui-moly injector clean (NOT via the tank, but straight outta the can into the fuel feed lines), and curtail the problem that way?

should i get some links? (as in, i've read a bit about the whole she-bang on tdiclub, with pics etc.... reckon it would help?)

cheers,

scotty

[Gti Dave]

Sorry to hear that mate. Wish you the best of luck with the fix and let's hope transports advice saves you plenty of dollars.

[ryana89]

Does petrol actually damage or upset the injector pump and injectors? (question for the experts here)
If not, could you then simply drain the tank, refill with diesel, remove glow plugs and turn the engine over untill all the petrol is 'blown' out?
Just a suggestion/question to anyone who knows more than me:)

[Garbon]

Hi Mate

This happened to me 12 months ago, I got my Mk3 TDi towed to a VW mechanic, they drained the tank replaced the filter and bled the system until diesel was going into the motor. It started up no worries after that...

I was surprised that not much happened at all to the motor, I was expecting the worst but it is still good today

Hope this helps

[jettadsg]

Followed Transporter's advice. The guys at Motortorque in Grafton drained the tank, replaced the fuel filter, flushed it out and used a lubricating additive in a rich ratio with diesel for a 100k's or so. Its running sweet as a nut and fingers crossed it will continue to. Thanks for the advice guys.
jettadsg

[Voora1ZN]

Great news, good to hear a positive outcome. Hope it continues running well. I too always fear that I might have grabbed the wrong nozzle at the servo, being my first diesel after many petrol cars.

[Transporter]

Buying always from the same servo can help. Also keep the receipts, just in case that contaminated fuel cause some troubles to your engine.

[gldgti]

Does petrol actually damage or upset the injector pump and injectors? (question for the experts here)
If not, could you then simply drain the tank, refill with diesel, remove glow plugs and turn the engine over untill all the petrol is 'blown' out?
Just a suggestion/question to anyone who knows more than me:)

you could do that on an older diesel for sure... but these modern diesels are sensitive to fuel mainly because there are some very high pressure parts in the system using the fuel as a lubricant. petrol is a terrible lubricant.

[gldgti]

Good to hear that is going fine OP.

as an aside, I used to add some petrol to my tank on purpose every now and then to keep the injectors clean on my old 1.5D (about 10%).

Also, I was convoying on a holiday with my Dad a couple of years back. He has a 1974 Merc 240D. I'm not sure how big the tank is (maybe 55L) but he put about 20L of unleaded in before he realised. He just filled the rest with diesel and kept driving - also fine!

[Greg Roles]

Mate that's BAD to even mention to the PD folk let alone the ultra precarious comon railers!

[NiekSavio]

Great news, good to hear a positive outcome. Hope it continues running well. I too always fear that I might have grabbed the wrong nozzle at the servo, being my first diesel after many petrol cars.

I am so paranoid that I always check 15 times before getting the diesel nozzle out and then check another 10 times before actually putting it in the tank. Glad it all worked out for you so far jettadsg :)

[The_Hawk]

I am so paranoid that I always check 15 times before getting the diesel nozzle out and then check another 10 times before actually putting it in the tank. Glad it all worked out for you so far jettadsg :)

Oh yeah. I'm always very careful to be using the right pump. When we first got the Van I was checking the pump *while* filling it half a dozen times :P

Funny thing is that when I had the Mk1 GLD I don't know that I ever paid much attention... I'm sure it's something to do with the 50x increase in price :)

I'm very glad to hear that it worked out so well for you. Here's hoping it continues without problems.

[Greg Roles]

How can you miss that smell, the oily patch you stand in, or even the slimy nozzle you have to hold??

[Corey_R]

How can you miss that smell, the oily patch you stand in, or even the slimy nozzle you have to hold??
When I put my Polo GTI on the market, and whilst I was waiting for my R to arrive, I started using my ex-flat-mate's Ford Focus TDI (I've been car sitting for him since he's been living overseas). After the first time I filled up with diesel, and not enjoying the experience AT ALL (could still smell the diesel on my hands that evening), I grabbed a "Glad sealable sandwich bag" from the kitchen, grabbed a handful of latex gloves from the laundry, put them in the bag and put them in the glove box!

Filling up with diesel wearing one of the latex gloves has made the experience so much easier and nicer!

[Frankenstrat]

At my local BP Manning servo, the diesel pumps all have a metal shields over the nozzle, that's how you know they're diesel. However, since BP Ultimate is now available, I go to BP Applecross, and the only pump with Ultimate is pump No9, which is diesel only, ergo, I'll never suffer the same fate as the OP. I'm glad everything worked out OK, but the OP's not the first to do that kind of thing, and certainly won't be the last.

I've noticed that the Ultimate pumps at BP South Perth and BP Applecross both have nice wet and wipe dispensers by them, so I don't have to carry a latex glove with me.

[Greg Roles]

I wipe the diesel from the nozzle on my business suit pants, smile and thank god I'm not a cry baby.

[zjm]

years ago my old man put about 10 litres in his nissan patrol accidently he then filled the rest up with diesel she went like the clappers but that was a Nissan Patrol I reckon a VW would **** itself

[ryana89]

Thanks gldgti, had a feeling new age diesel might not appreciate that kind of treatment;)

We knew some people that had a Mazda Bravo TD ute, that was terrible on fuel and seemed down on power.
Then one day it got near half a tank of petrol (mixed with diesel) and from that day on it runs much better

:)

[Highlander]

I wipe the diesel from the nozzle on my business suit pants, smile and thank god I'm not a cry baby.

Hyundai diesels come with a glovebox full of plastic gloves. And I concur with the oily patch syndrome. Almost need "Diesel shoes" at some servos. One particularly messy servo ate a pair of my shoes. I'm so anal about it i even have a paper "refuelling floor mat" similar to those sometimes used by service centres because I don't like wiping the diesel off my shoes on my floormats because they are harder to clean than business suit pants.

[benough]

In 3 years of owning a TDI I have had "oily" hands about 4 times and dirty shoes about the same. I got given a bag of plastic gloves before my car arrived. I used them once b/c I looked like a tool. :)

[gldgti]

my metro servo's B100 pump is as clean as the petrol pumps (which are just fine).
Some diesel pumps are bad but I reckon theres more that are just fine than there are dirty ones.

[jazd]

I used them once b/c I looked like a tool. :)
Haha I bet you did. I have never seen anyone wearing latex gloves to fill their car.


my metro servo's B100 pump is as clean as the petrol pumps (which are just fine).
Some diesel pumps are bad but I reckon theres more that are just fine than there are dirty ones.
Metro diesel? Eww

[wfdTamar]

I got one of these - $61 delivered. Cheap insurance for a forgetful moment (or if someone else is using your car).

The Fuel Angel - The Misfuelling Prevention Device (http://www.misfuellingprevention.co.uk/)

Lots of motoring organisations have a similar product.

This one looks interesting too:

Misfuel - NousCap - Wrong Fuel - Fuel Cap - Misfuelling - Nous Cap - About NousCap (http://www.nouscap.com/about-nouscap)

[maxrob200]

I always wipe down the pump filler handle before refilling with paper towel as they are a bit greasy sometimes. It becomes a bit of a procedure to check the pump and filler to make sure that it is diesel that i am pumping before pressing the trigger. Cant be too sure i guess

[Johnnojack]

Why not have a small ball, dongle, plastic key tag or similar thing attached by a short cord to the inside hinge of the fuel flap? When the flap is opened it falls out on its cord and has written on it DIESEL. That would be a wake up to most distracted or dreaming refuellers.
As previous posters have said it is not a problem when you are concentrating on the job, but if one was in a dream then a table tennis ball on a string would kinda get your attention. Like WTF is this? Oh yeah!
When you close the flap just push the dongle back inside.

[bluey]

Fingers crossed for no damage. Looks like the most vulnerable part is the HPFP, which could fail now or earlier than usual.....

Who has seen an HPFP survive a full on misfuel? - TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=334314)

According to this article, it's the aluminium bore of the HPFP that fails resulting in metal particles in the fuel system.
dweisel's HPFP Analogy of a Failure - VW TDI forum and Audi TDI forum - myturbodiesel.com (http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f7/dweisels-hpfp-analogy-failure-4187/)

Have now got 2 diesel cars so stay away from the petrol pumps now and partner refuses to refuel in case she makes a mistake.

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

Here is a post showing damage to HPFP after 3 minutes on gasoline:

TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - CR engine HPFP analysis (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3259170&postcount=543)

[Diesel_vert]

Fingers crossed for no damage. Looks like the most vulnerable part is the HPFP, which could fail now or earlier than usual.....

Who has seen an HPFP survive a full on misfuel? - TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=334314)

According to this article, it's the aluminium bore of the HPFP that fails resulting in metal particles in the fuel system.
dweisel's HPFP Analogy of a Failure - VW TDI forum and Audi TDI forum - myturbodiesel.com (http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f7/dweisels-hpfp-analogy-failure-4187/)

Have now got 2 diesel cars so stay away from the petrol pumps now and partner refuses to refuel in case she makes a mistake.

---------- Post added at 09:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:33 AM ----------

Here is a post showing damage to HPFP after 3 minutes on gasoline:

TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - CR engine HPFP analysis (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3259170&postcount=543)

Lol, way to rub it in! j:

But seriously, yeah, don't fill 'er with petrol unless it's -50°C outside.

[bluey]

Well, if it's possible that a misfuel can cause damage to the HPFP, it would rather make sense to do something to keep on top of the potential problem, rather than wait for a who knows how many thousand dollar repair if it does fail. (USD8000-9000)

One would have to consider the simple options of:
1. replace HPFP
2. install filter to prevent metal particles from causing downstream damage - TDIclub members have been working on such a solution
3. periodic inspection of HPFP and filters to detect metal particles early
4. pretend that nothing ever happened and claim on warranty
5. ostrich

I wouldn't be laughing, I'd be solving the problem.

Other diesels are more forgiving of misfuels than the diesel-lubricated CRD HPFP made by Bosch for VAG.

[Diesel_vert]

I'd go for option 4, cross fingers and hope it fails within the warranty period.

If the TDIForums are anything to go by, it should happen in no time.

Woohoo! Free HPFP! :D

[popeclement]

Apart from my VW Bora & M5, I also run a Nissan Xtrail diesel (renault M9R motor). Had the misfortune to fill up in the dark at BP in Geraldton - tired and put 30l into the 60l tank using the dark blue hose next to the diesel one!! Got all the way to 40km before Leeman on the Indian Ocean Drive and it simply stopped - a bit of chugging but it sat on 110 easily - I thought it might have been dirty fuel. Got a tow into Leeman when I realised my error.

I had it trucked from leeman back to perth and then drained the tank(s) - the Xtrail has a saddle tank design and two caps to access - no drain valves. Flushed the lines, replaced the filter, filled with fresh diesel, and so far so good.

PS stopped of course where there was no mobile reception - Murphy's Law.

[NiekSavio]

Diesel Mis-fuelling Device | My RACQ | RACQ (http://www.racq.com.au/my_racq/racq_online_shop/diesel_mis-fuelling_device)

[popeclement]

Well, if it's possible that a misfuel can cause damage to the HPFP, it would rather make sense to do something to keep on top of the potential problem, rather than wait for a who knows how many thousand dollar repair if it does fail. (USD8000-9000)

One would have to consider the simple options of:
1. replace HPFP
2. install filter to prevent metal particles from causing downstream damage - TDIclub members have been working on such a solution
3. periodic inspection of HPFP and filters to detect metal particles early
4. pretend that nothing ever happened and claim on warranty
5. ostrich

I wouldn't be laughing, I'd be solving the problem.

Other diesels are more forgiving of misfuels than the diesel-lubricated CRD HPFP made by Bosch for VAG.

Well - my HPFP in the Xtrail was not alright and symptoms were stalling when hot when idling & about to move off. The HPFP is a Bosch unit and for replacement and bits n pieces and labour I was quoted $8k by Nissan. To cut a long story short I removed it myself and took it to a Bosch diesel specialist who refurbished it for just over 1k. I reassembled and have done over 1,000kms with no issues. Moral of story - don't believe the dealers - mate of mine who is a long distance courier driver with a VW Transporter did the same and was quoted 11.5k by VW - He seems to have got away with it without having to replace the HPFP probably because his mix was not 50/50 like mine.

[bluey]

quoted $8k by Nissan. ... quoted 11.5k by VW

Wondering what you had changed. I thought a HPFP failure resulting in metal particles going downstream clogs injectors. So the larger quotes should include replacing HPFP and injectors and any other bits downstream from the HPFP. I thought the HPFP was worth about $1500. Saw one apparently still available on a US forum for $500 (paid $1250).

[popeclement]

The 8k quote was only for the pump and some HP lines, not the injectors. The retail for the pump was 5k, the'other' bits approx 1.5k and the rest labour. I looked at pumps off the web but the Bosch specialist was very reassuring about their capability to refurbish - they offered an exchange for 2k. (My mate was quoted the same sans injectors!!)

I received three pages of computerised test results on every aspect, the most important being the ability to hold a very very high pressure - I hear it's around 1600bar & of course a 12 mths wty. The main part replaced was the metering valve assembly which was 'contaminated'.

Once I had done a few hundred k's, I took the car back to the dealer who kindly put their diagnostics on for no charge and noted no error codes and more importantly did a 'low flow recal' when hot - this is the only means to set up the idling speed band given that all these cars now have electronic throttle control (should also be done when a fuel filter is replaced).

They also made some comment about 'having the knack' in reference to me doing this myself - I suggested they could recommend to punters who have a similar issue, that a 'phased' fix may be the go - ie do the filter and flush lines/tank, next the pump, and finally the HP lines/injectors, provided the customer understands it will take time and is a process of elimination.

[Transporter]

It's good you got it fixed. :)

However a 'phased' fix, is not the best one/safest one, and it could be more expensive than doing the proper check of all the components that could be affected and replacing what need to be replaced asap.

[popeclement]

However a 'phased' fix, is not the best one/safest one, and it could be more expensive than doing the proper check of all the components that could be affected and replacing what need to be replaced asap.

It may be the most risk averse way to guaranteeing the fix by 'shotgunning' all and sundry, but it puts the cost in an area where many might even decide to trade in their vehicle, get a loan etc.

The 'damage' in this instance has already been done and it really is a straightforward process to eliminate each component in the chain, till it works. It took me no more than a total of two hours to remove and install and that was without any service manual. Even allowing for some computer diagnostic time, it comes nowhere near the 1.8k cost they quoted me on labour unless they are on $300/hr + !

From three decades in the engineering field, I prefer a pragmatic approach.

[wfdTamar]

You think you would never be so stupid as to do this. Obviously it's easy to do in a moment of absent mindedness. This is all driving up the insurance premiums for diesel owners. A $60 ounce of prevention can prevent it, so get a misfuelling device even if you think you'd never do it!

You'd think manufacturers could put them in by default.

[Transporter]

From three decades in the engineering field, I prefer a pragmatic approach.

So, you should know that, if you leave just one damaged componnent in the chain of devices, you can render whole system useless again.

Anyhow, it's good to have your feedback and it's good that you fixed it yourself. :)

[popeclement]

So, you should know that, if you leave just one damaged component in the chain of devices, you can render whole system useless again.

Anyhow, it's good to have your feedback and it's good that you fixed it yourself. :)

Start from the source and work down the chain - the components that are damaged not likely to get better by themselves, hence the process of elimination - cleaned the tank, sender, low pressure fuel pump, lines all up to the HPFP. If the injectors were or have been damaged I will find out in time. However all idling issues now resolved so unlikely but yet possible - I am not sure of the long term effect of petrol on piezo injectors. However the point I was making by the phased approach is that when the anticipated costs are enough to break out a sweat, it may be an option to put to customers.

I agree with comments about the misfuel device - this episode occurred after four years of owning the vehicle and when dark & tired. My first thoughts after 30kms of driving was a dirty batch of fuel. Only realised when I looked at the docket. Checked my insurance policy and they are quite specific about misfuelling and specifically petrol into a diesel which is on the list of exclusions.

Another recommendation for anyone else unfortunate enough to do this, is to take your vehicle to an accredited (Bosch) diesel injection specialist - they are doing most of the work for the dealers anyway - they also have facilities such as dynos which can be very useful when testing diesels under load. One of the questions I asked the dealer was if they had the facilities to test the HPFP which of course they don't have.