Polo GTI at Sydney Motor Show. Interior included.

[sharkablue]

Take a look:

This one didn't have a sunroof (although looking at a leaked options list it doesn't seem to even be an option for Australia?), No Comfort Pack and No Xenons.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8688/img0284yj.jpg

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6044/img0286cy.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9725/img0288oh.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6332/img0291rf.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6915/img0293ta.jpg

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3493/img0297o.jpg

[sharkablue]

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3902/img0298nv.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9194/img0301z.jpg

[Hail22]

The boavista's look much better on the Polo then those rip off wheels that really should remain on a Golf...they need to make the Polo an individual (including alloys)

[Allegiance]

The RCD-310 looks out of place with the gloss black. I think the 18inch detroits would look awesome on it.

[Zeke]

Whats the *&^%$#$^ price

[sharkablue]

I spoke to a rep on the night and I was told that VW Australia had planned to announce the pricing when the show opened. However due to the very strong Aussie dollar they have had to postpone it and will be releasing the pricing in the next couple of weeks.

Considering that the MK4 Polo GTI was $26,990 you would expect this to not be too much more expensive. Especially when you consider how strong the Aussie dollar is right now and how agressive VW Aus have been with pricing all their cars in Australia.

[pologti18t]

Considering that the MK4 Polo GTI was $26,990 you would expect this to not be too much more expensive. Especially when you consider how strong the Aussie dollar is right now and how agressive VW Aus have been with pricing all their cars in Australia.

Depends what the buy the cars in.... USD or Euro. The Aus dollar has been relatively stable against the Euro for months.

[Zeke]

I spoke to a rep on the night and I was told that VW Australia had planned to announce the pricing when the show opened. However due to the very strong Aussie dollar they have had to postpone it and will be releasing the pricing in the next couple of weeks.

Considering that the MK4 Polo GTI was $26,990 you would expect this to not be too much more expensive. Especially when you consider how strong the Aussie dollar is right now and how agressive VW Aus have been with pricing all their cars in Australia.

Nuh, reason for no pricing and no pre order is that the VW plant in South Africa which makes the 3 & 5 door Right hand drive Polo's and where our Polo GTI's are coming from has had industrial unrest and the UK backlog has to be delivered first.
So when the pricing is released in November and orders are taken you'll be told that you won't get it until March 2011 which will then drag out to May 2011 as per usual with VWA.

[pologti18t]

Nuh, reason for no pricing and no pre order is that the VW plant in South Africa which makes the 3 & 5 door Right hand drive Polo's and where our Polo GTI's are coming from has had industrial unrest and the UK backlog has to be delivered first.
So when the pricing is released in November and orders are taken you'll be told that you won't get it until March 2011 which will then drag out to May 2011 as per usual with VWA.

Except.... 3 door Polos come from Germany for the Australian Market.

I am unsure if the UK gets its Polos from South Africa. The Polo GTI has been up on the UK site for months. So I am guessing they get Polos from Germany.

Update:

Just got a response from my local dealer. They are expecting limited numbers of Polo Gtis to start arriving in November.

[FJ Steve]

Except.... 3 door Polos come from Germany for the Australian Market.

I am unsure if the UK gets its Polos from South Africa. The Polo GTI has been up on the UK site for months. So I am guessing they get Polos from Germany.

Update:

Just got a response from my local dealer. They are expecting limited numbers of Polo Gtis to start arriving in November.The Port Elizabeth plant does supply Polos to the UK. Part of the reason for the delay in fulfilling orders to Australia, is that the UK orders are taking priority (bigger market = more orders = bigger profits). :mad:

[phaeton]

Polo (3dr & GTI) - Pamplona, Spain
Polo (5dr) - Uitenhage, South Africa

[MariusGT]

Polo 5dr GTI for Australia? surely the answer is YES.

why on earth would they display the 5dr if we were only getting the 3dr...?

[pologti18t]

Polo 5dr GTI for Australia? surely the answer is YES.

why on earth would they display the 5dr if we were only getting the 3dr...?

LOL.... read any of this or the other GTI threads? VW have confirmed we are getting both 3/5 door Polo GTIs. It's on their website.

[MariusGT]

Polo (3dr & GTI) - Pamplona, Spain
Polo (5dr) - Uitenhage, South Africa


LOL.... read any of this or the other GTI threads? VW have confirmed we are getting both 3/5 door Polo GTIs. It's on their website.

yeah i'm not in the market for one i was just reading the thread and posed the question as a result of phaetons mention of build locations. but thanks for answering my question with the implication that i'm an idiot. :brutal:

[Buller_Scott]

yeah i'm not in the market for one i was just reading the thread and posed the question as a result of phaetons mention of build locations. but thanks for answering my question with the implication that i'm an idiot. :brutal:

for what it's worth, when i read his post, i didnt think he was insinuating that you're an idiot. you certainly didnt look like one.

3 door vs 5 door is all very good, but what really ****s me is that i find myself more and more, looking at the renaultsport clios in carsales, late at night, rather than looking at the new polo gti... (and this is in spite of the fact that im a soft-core VW fanboy, and i much prefer the looks of the new polo over the clio, ANYDAY).

perhaps it's because (at least for me) any thrill that might be attainable (thanks to FI and a decent set of sways/bushes/coilies/tyres) would still be dulled down thanks to..........huh? no manual? ****ing idiots...

and they expect this car to somehow compete with a clio....

[MariusGT]

funny. when i was shopping last year i did seriously consider 2 other options (outside of GOLF GT Sport TDI/TSI and also GTI) which were the clio sport and also cooper S JCW (John Cooper Works).

basically the reason i stepped away from those 2 were size. i'm married and knew a little addition wasn't far away. so the 3 golfs mentioned above became my shortlist. test drove them all (loved them all) and found my GT Sport w low kms for a good price. done deal.

[Buller_Scott]

funny. when i was shopping last year i did seriously consider 2 other options (outside of GOLF GT Sport TDI/TSI and also GTI) which were the clio sport and also cooper S JCW (John Cooper Works).

basically the reason i stepped away from those 2 were size. i'm married and knew a little addition wasn't far away. so the 3 golfs mentioned above became my shortlist. test drove them all (loved them all) and found my GT Sport w low kms for a good price. done deal.

yeah, see, i think we are likeminded... i drive a polo, and when i took a GTD for a test drive (as well as a GTD and GTI around sandown), i hopped inside the golf and thought "wow- this is a BIG car inside, for day to day duties".

i can understand why cars are getting bigger and bigger, but at the same time, i dont have to like it. i love micro hatches- polo, fiesta, clio, prev gen xr4, mini, corsa, etc etc... i'd look into a DS3, but i cant justify $50k for a 1.6T in the same ''micro-mini'' class.

the new polo gti really has me bent- it looks gorgeous, the interior of the new polo that i sat in felt upmarket and refined, it's light, it's solid as ever and well built, etc etc.... and then you've got the fact that it's a non-manual + supercharger flap issues + dry clutch 7sp dsg issues + non-manual + ridiculous wait times + non-manual......

if i were to keep my polo tdi as a daily, and bring something out to play in the twisties on the weekends, it's looking much more like it'd be a renaulsport clio 197, rather than a new polo GTI, even if you DID chip the polo + exhaust + intake + coilies etc (by which time, it'd be more expensive than a clio 197 anyway).

[MariusGT]

I never did take the renaultsport clio for a drive - but i did test a JCW and a "normal" cooper S.

and when you say you are thinking of a car for the twisties and must be a manual: These cars have it in spades. go drive one.

can pick up an S for quite a good price these days. JCW are still pricey.

[Hail22]

YouTube - VW Golf R - DSG versus manual by autocar.co.uk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfvnDt7BA) This isn't a polo but explains very minimally the power the DSG has over a manual, even with the extra weight ;)

please note yes the red R is a 5 door (manual) and the blue R is a 3 door (DSG) Apparently the weight is equal as the DSG box is quite heavy compared to the standard manual box.

Enjoy the vid

[break]

3 door vs 5 door is all very good, but what really ****s me is that i find myself more and more, looking at the renaultsport clios in carsales, late at night, rather than looking at the new polo gtiFrom a recently converted Polo GTI to Renaultsport Clio owner, you'll never look back.

Sure, the drive to work won't be as comfortable... but you'll find some twisty road and quickly remind yourself where the Polo has it wrong :)

[limmy]

NA power in a compact hatch is the way to go...i.e. RS clio

plus

i can't think of a hatch you can buy today for $40k that have 4 pot brembos on them as well as recaros!

[noone]

Sure, but for 40k you could have the Golf GTI...

Mo doubt the Clio is a good car, but it is a different price point...

[pologti18t]

NA power in a compact hatch is the way to go...i.e. RS clio

plus

i can't think of a hatch you can buy today for $40k that have 4 pot brembos on them as well as recaros!

And for 45K on road you can get a Megane RS 250. I think that is 3-5K well spent.

[Hail22]

So has this become the unreliable french car forum now? or are we still VWwatercooled? lol

[Allegiance]

I think the Clio Cup editions are pretty cool. Although I wouldn't go for one because it is only manual.

[leasaunce]

DSC_3461 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leonsidik/5106298329)
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/10/5106298329_9f26fbb30d_z-1.jpg


DSC_3464 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leonsidik/5106919584)
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/10/5106919584_251ac1178e_z-1.jpg


DSC_3404 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leonsidik/5106327363)
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/10/5106327363_ebecf80fda_z-1.jpg

[poloplayer]

Haha, that's a bit unfair though. THAT megane costs a fair bit more...

[limmy]

apart from the demos supposedly due in november, i was told ETA of polos is going to be May/June 2011!!! if it turns out to be true...that is absolutely ridiculous.

[pologti18t]

apart from the demos supposedly due in november, i was told ETA of polos is going to be May/June 2011!!! if it turns out to be true...that is absolutely ridiculous.

You believe that? Why the hell would they "release" a car 7 months before you can buy one?

[Highlander]

You believe that? Why the hell would they "release" a car 7 months before you can buy one?

Peugeot dealers have RCZ in showrooms from October. Even if you buy the demo you can't pick it up until February. So that's 4/5 months. Interesting to see when you get an "ordered" car.

[BR @ ON]

You believe that? Why the hell would they "release" a car 7 months before you can buy one?

Because we are OZ, not exactly top of their head...

Having said that, UK only got their first couples recently.

[GTi Crow]

Heard on the grapevine Polo GTI prices are not being released until December. Anyone more detail than that?

[Fixxxer]

I was hoping to test drive one and get pricing info by mid-November, and haven't got a call yet.
But it wouldn't surprise me to see it blow out to December.

[walbjj]

dropped into bill buckle vw at brookvale, the salesman said they are receiving a car by the end of november, and no word on pricing
there was a ****hot white golf gti with black 18" motorsport rims tho

[Scruffy]

I stopped in at Solitaire today and they have this parked out the front.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/11/photo-3.jpg
Salesman said that no-one was allowed to drive it and that it is a "media only" car and as soon as the Adelaide press have driven it the Polo and the R to the left will be trucked back to NSW.
He had no idea this guy, he tried to tell me that the shallow boot was because of the 4wd!!!! And that it had the new DSG full system!? :brutal:

Looks very nice though. :banana:

[GTi Crow]

Shallow boot - isnt it because unlike the Golf the Polo GTI carries a full size spare?

Is that at their Medindie site? Not sure I can get past there in the next couple of days.

[Scruffy]

Yeah, its at Medindie.

[pologti18t]

Shallow boot - isnt it because unlike the Golf the Polo GTI carries a full size spare?

Is that at their Medindie site? Not sure I can get past there in the next couple of days.

The GTI at the Motorshow had a space saver... But i presume they leave space to store the full sized flat under the floor.

[GTi Crow]

Maybe they have changed for this model and I didn't pick it up, but the previous Polo GTI definitely has a full sized spare.

[volksweapon]

The polo GTI has a raised floor in the boot because that is where the battery is located. The battery is in the boot to better distribute the weight of the car. The spare is a space saver.

[vvt172]

Heard that there will be a launch in Sydney this Sunday. Not sure what that means exactly but hopefully there will be some prices then. Me thinks white looks better than the silver.

[Zeke]

Heard that there will be a launch in Sydney this Sunday. Not sure what that means exactly but hopefully there will be some prices then. Me thinks white looks better than the silver.

How many launches are they gunna have for the Polo GTI. I'm fed up waiting. Lets face it VWA really stands for Volkswagen Wait Awhile, wait a bloody very long while.

[NoFidelity]

The Renault Clio sport is looking pretty damn tempting right now. Had it up to the eyeballs being told it's coming.

VW needs to realize that there are other options out there.

[pologti18t]

The Renault Clio sport is looking pretty damn tempting right now. Had it up to the eyeballs being told it's coming.

VW needs to realize that there are other options out there.

CLio sport is Golf GTi priced. In fact you might as well spend a few 1000 more and get a Megane RS250.

[vvt172]

The Clio Sport II was well priced and a fantastic drive. You could overlook the crappy plastic interior beacuse of this. The new Clio III is more expensive but still look el cheapo inside. If I had the cash I'd opt for the Golf GTi

[cjeff]

if you want the ClioSport 197, you can get demonstrators with about 4-5000kms for about $26K right now... A mate of mine just bought one for $25K.

Craig

[pologti18t]

Heard that there will be a launch in Sydney this Sunday. Not sure what that means exactly but hopefully there will be some prices then. Me thinks white looks better than the silver.

Just got an email from local dealer.... he hasn't heard anything about a Polo GTI release this weekend

[nomodlowkmgti]

How many launches are they gunna have for the Polo GTI. I'm fed up waiting. Lets face it VWA really stands for Volkswagen Wait Awhile, wait a bloody very long while.

Spot on i think you are on to something.The way VWA does things i think i will open a savings account now and buy the time my car gets delivered i may have enough to pay most of it .I have no faith that i will get a car before mid 2011 any way.

[NoFidelity]

Drove a 197 Clio Sport today... WHOA WTF!! :D

Have to sleep on it, but its looking like its Renault Sport for moi!

Edit: Anyone want a MKIV Golf? ;)

[Buller_Scott]

Drove a 197 Clio Sport today... WHOA WTF!! :D

Have to sleep on it, but its looking like its Renault Sport for moi!

Edit: Anyone want a MKIV Golf? ;)

so what was so good about it? because presumably they are pretty slow in a straight line... and i'd want more torque for powering out of corners.

so what was your take on it?

p.s. im not ragging on them with the slow in a straight line / low torque comment, im just trying to find out why you're gonna go with the clio.... because it's something i'd be likely to consider in the next couple of years, given the fact that they are well priced (demo/2nd hand) and the fact that you dont have to wait for eleven months for your car to be delivered, like you do with a VW...

[walbjj]

i was looking at the clio r27, but they r too hard to find in white, being only 10 sold. and they still want high $30s for them
im not sure how good the car is to drive, having owned an s2000 for 7 years and an evo 9 for 4, im over the whole "car as a weapon" theme, and im more after a comfortable fun drive. which is why im looking at the polo gti

[sabloke]

Don't know about R27 but since presumably my RS 200 is an improvement from the previous model I might be able to tell you a few things about its balance, grip and the fabulous 2.0 atmo engine. :)
Comparing the Clio with the new Polo is not fair at all. They're not in the same price or performance range. Sure, in straight line the Polo is plenty fast enough but after a couple of corners the Clio would be in a different post code simply because that is what it is built for. Four pot Brembo brakes and grippy Recaro seats are not common in hot-ish hatches, isn't it? The Polo is a fast little car, no doubt, but if you want supreme handling balance and grip in a car that is in essence a road going go-kart with roof, aircon, stereo and surprisingly compliant suspension despite zero body roll, get the Clio. If on the other hand you're after a great all rounder, get a Golf GTI or even better, save yourself a lot of money and get the Polo GTI. Seen one at the dealer the other day and it looked pretty hot, just like the Golf should have looked like without all them kilos piling up from one generation to the next!

[pologti18t]

So, is the release this Sunday?

[GTi Crow]

I beleive so.

[pologti18t]

I beleive so.


Dealer just returned email. No release this weekend. Looks like it will be in December

Though just read this on GoAuto

“A lot of products are coming and to be honest I don’t know where to start,” said Ms Koeckler. “We are starting this week with the Polo GTI on Friday and this year we will conclude in the beginning of December with the Caddy.

[volksweapon]

Polo GTI release IS this week in Adelaide. Hill climb event for media only.

[Buller_Scott]

it's starting to look as though VW dont actually want to sell this ****ing car...

it'll be 2012 before we see any consumer's polo gti on the road, the way things are going....

[Hail22]

I would prefer the Scirocco....don't see that hot car ever coming here except for imports :(

[vvt172]

By the time VW get their act together we'll be getting 2010 cars 2 weeks before 2011. Are people going to be bargaining hard to get a good price or are you all going to wait for the 2011 production cars?

[nomodlowkmgti]

Im not going to buy a car this late in the year no way and yes im going to be bargaining hard but only on 2011 build date cars.I look at this way when i sell down the track or trade it in say in 2014.My car will be 3 years old not 4. but if its a 2010 build even a late 2010 i will get a lower resale and insurance valuation.Thats why dealers discount hard jan each year to clear stock.My last polo i got was early 2006 and sold late 2009 and i did ok on resale.I would need at least $4000 off on road price to even think about it.

[Buller_Scott]

By the time VW get their act together we'll be getting 2010 cars 2 weeks before 2011. Are people going to be bargaining hard to get a good price or are you all going to wait for the 2011 production cars?

there's been a track record of VW not budging too much when it comes to price (on the whole), with an "we dont need to sell it to you- someone else will buy it at the price we want, because these cars sell themselves" kind of attitude.

dont ask me to recall the number of times i've seen 2006/2007 polo gti's, ex-demo in a VW car lot, for $29,990 on the road... even $31,990 for an ex demo whose RRP was $26k.

until this whole debacle with the shipping companies, supercharger / dsg issues are sorted out beyond question, in spite of the fact that i love the new look polo, i think i'll be holding onto my bomb-proof 1.9TDI.

i'd only really be willing to wait 9 months for a car if it were a completely rebuilt, rust free, custom painted + ATS cupped mk1 GTD with a 1.9 PD transplant... THAT, i could wait close to a year for.

i just feel sorry for one guy on the passat forums who ordered his R36 around last christmas, and actually only took delivery of it after they had announced and exhibited the new model passat at some car show (in china, i think? or LA).

the wait times are... despicable.

[pologti18t]

there's been a track record of VW not budging too much when it comes to price (on the whole), with an "we dont need to sell it to you- someone else will buy it at the price we want, because these cars sell themselves" kind of attitude.

the wait times are... despicable.

Really? Is that why people have continually got nice discounts on Mk 6 Golf GTi practically from day one.

As for people waiting excessive amounts of time for a car.... tough. In most cases it can be directly traced back to the type and number of options specified on the car.

[Buller_Scott]

Really? Is that why people have continually got nice discounts on Mk 6 Golf GTi practically from day one.


yeah, exactly.

<$40k RRP + dsg/sat nav (or other modest options) = >$52k on road (im not going to cite examples, they're all over the net) = ''nice discounts", eh?

i didnt know VW were known for handing out nice discounts left, right and center, as your post reads.... it's good to know, but it doesnt explain why modestly optioned cars in dealership lots are still $12k above RRP, for ex demo (at least in melbourne).

as for the type/number of options- a month per option in build time, is it?

given that you're quite knowledgable regarding this, i'd genuinely like to ask- could you name other car manufacturers who ask their customers to wait 9 months etc for delivery, because of sat nav, sun roof and leather, for example?

[Scruffy]

Hey guys, positive news is that the launch looks like it is happening this weekend in Adelaide. Just saw 4 of them driving down North Terrace this morning. Got a couple of pics, but most didn't work cause the phone cam wouldn't focus through the tram windows. But here is one to wet your appetite.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/11/photo1-5.jpg
Must say that the Blue looks very nice in the flesh, pity the pic of that one didn't work. :banana:

[pologti18t]

yeah, exactly.

<$40k RRP + dsg/sat nav (or other modest options) = >$52k on road (im not going to cite examples, they're all over the net) = ''nice discounts", eh?

i didnt know VW were known for handing out nice discounts left, right and center, as your post reads.... it's good to know, but it doesnt explain why modestly optioned cars in dealership lots are still $12k above RRP, for ex demo (at least in melbourne).

as for the type/number of options- a month per option in build time, is it?

given that you're quite knowledgable regarding this, i'd genuinely like to ask- could you name other car manufacturers who ask their customers to wait 9 months etc for delivery, because of sat nav, sun roof and leather, for example?

Go to the Golf 6 discussion group and there is a spreadsheet of what people have paid. The discounts are numerous and documented.

As for you "9 month" example. No one is asking any of these customers to wait 9 months. I'd actually like to see the people who would be willing to wait 9 months for what is essentially a family hatch. Any examples here ?

[Corey_R]

i didnt know VW were known for handing out nice discounts left, right and center, as your post reads.... it's good to know, but it doesnt explain why modestly optioned cars in dealership lots are still $12k above RRP, for ex demo (at least in melbourne).

I think that you need to stop generalising here and provide some specific examples.
Every time that someone has said that "Dealer x" or "Car Ad y" is over RRP and actually provided an example to me, I've found that it's actually the correct "RRP inc drive away" price or slightly less. So mostly it comes downt to a lack of understanding of how a car gets from its RRP to the "Drive away" price. (Not saying that's a case with you, as you haven't provided any examples).

It should be completely obvious about why a dealer advertises their cars at Full RRP + Drive Away. 1) Because they are required by law to include the drive aways. 2) Because if they advertised a 10% discount on the RRP, customers would come in an expect a further 10% discount on that.

In any case, what pologti18t has stated is correct.

As for waits - tough. It happens all the time. Granted, it's more of an issue with European cars where there are so many specific options that the minimum wait is 4 months, even when there ISNT huge demand. The wait thus far on the Golf R's have been <6 months. This will remain true as long as REXman and I receive our cars before December 12th! lol (we should, they're in compliance now)

[Buller_Scott]

Go to the Golf 6 discussion group and there is a spreadsheet of what people have paid. The discounts are numerous and documented.

hold on, first it was "continually getting nice discounts from practically day 1", now it's been downgraded to "numerous and documented"?

originally, your post read like: "MOST VW dealers will fold under pressure, providing significant discounts to consumers", and anyone reading this, waiting to see whether or not they should amend their order, would see your, and Corey's post, and be led to believe that they're going to get a sweet deal for sure, simply because all the mk6 gti boys have been getting nice discounts since day 1.

as far as im concerned, someone asked a question if people are going to be driving hard for discounts, i replied with the intention of expressing the notion that VW arent going to slash $x,000 off a price of a polo, just because we're moving from MY2010.5 to MY2011.


I think that you need to stop generalising here and provide some specific examples.


why? so you can refute them? lol. end result will be me getting infracted...

if you want specific examples, here they are: every mk6 gti on carsales, and every demo gti in lots in melbourne VW dealerships.

come to think of it, though, after having not owned a VW before, but having read this thread, then i wouldnt pay much attention to carsales, nor car lot prices, because VW offer great discounts on RRP to many customers, and have been, since day one, apparently.

regarding wait times, my example might have been exaggerated, but it's got a basis in what i've seen in these forums. anyone remember the poor sod who ordered his R36 before xmas last year, and didnt get it until after they'd revealed the next gen passat? and all this talk of people getting correspondence that they've had their order delayed by a month here, 3 months there...

i hope you DO get your cars promptly, because the other alternative would be "delivery has been delayed by another 2 months", and we've all seen far too much of that on this forum...

[Corey_R]

Well then mate, I know you're incorrect. Because the prices of dealer advertised cars on Carsales right now are generally at RRP + Options + Onroads, slightly below, or don't include enough info to determine.
Which is my point from above. The cars are advertised properly, some people just don't know how cars "on road" prices are determined.

[Buller_Scott]

Well then mate, I know you're incorrect. Because the prices of dealer advertised cars on Carsales right now are generally at RRP + Options + Onroads, slightly below, or don't include enough info to determine.
Which is my point from above. The cars are advertised properly, some people just don't know how cars "on road" prices are determined.

fair enough, Corey, and in that case, i think it would be most prudent if i abstained from ''pursuing'' this discussion any further.

TBH, ''average cruise cut short, turns into best driving session i've ever had (with Gti_Dave, in fact), BECAUSE of the rain" is what i experienced today, plus i've had probably too many drinks at the pub, so i'll leave the discussion to get back to what it was before i took it off track.

regarding wait times (which im starting to view with contempt & as a deterrant to me thinking about upgrading any time soon), i DO hope you get your .:R in <6 months. simply (within the context of what i've read so far on the forums), it'd be a welcome change.

cheers man :)