Mk3 8v Crossflow

[Water Boy]

Hi gang,

For a while iv been wanting to build up a cross flow engine for my Mk3. Build up something cheap with ebay specials and what ever I can get for free. Labour is noting and it will be a good learning experience.

Iv broken it up into 4 catergories:

Head
Use a newer head from a Mk4 or new new bettle.
Do I go ABA or AEG

Bottom End
ADY or AGG (I don think there is any difference

Induction
Thinking of using the iduction from a Mk4/new bettle but it would be nice to get a manifold etc from a US aba.

Maybe ITB's of some form

ECU
Well this is where im still unsure.
Do I use a modified 2e a ABA/AEG or stand alone.
Id like to keep costs down but think ill run into trouble with OEM stuff, only problem being stand alone will cost $$$ which would be better put towards a 1.8t conversion.

And the question is does a cross flow head fit on a Mk3 2ltr bottom end?

[Golf Loon]

I want someone to do this.

I have the following info.

Late model 1.6 and 2L crossflow engines are different critters to the early ones, but the heads are virtually the same. I did once hold a 2L Golf 3 headgasket on a Mk4 1,6 head and it nearly fitted. I think a couple of oil holes needed to be enlarged in the gasket.

ABA bottom end is nearly the same as a 9A, it has oil squirters in the bottom and different pistons to the other 8vs. Thats why the Yanks love them with a KR head and hey presto their own homegrown ABF!

I have an ABA engine tucked away and it has the fuel rail and intake. I theorise that you could run it on digi.
Twist my arm and I might part with it.

I have also seen a latemodel Cordoba 1999 with a crossflow engine, it is a 1.6L and made more power than a stock 2L apparently. A lighter car and 2L bottom end and it would be a screamer.

AEB is 20VT from an Audi A4 mate, like I have in the rocco. Would be work to make it NA. The ADR engine is the 1.8L non turbo Audi derivative.

I have a couple of 1.6 heads at the shop, I`ll try and mate up a 2L 8v head gasket tomorrow and see what it looks like.
I reckon you could fuel that with your ecu and slap the head on your bottom end, keeps the numbers right and the RTA happy.

[Water Boy]

So loon your saying a Mk4 1.6ltr is a cross flow head?

Remember my car is a CL so 1.8ltr monotronic (Single point injection)

[Golf Loon]

Yup, Golf 4 is crossflow.
Block is definately different, Mk4 has internal waterpump, cant find a head here at the shop.
Singlepoint might not be enough to fuel it.

[Water Boy]

Yeah I have a complete bottom end from a New bettle and when I pulled to the sump of to have a look (AhhhhhI might put that back on thanks...)

[rayray086]

I haven't got much to tell you but I've been looking into it a bit to see what stuff in the US can work on our (my) U-flow 2.0L 8V.

The US Mk4 2.0L 8V has an AEG code (I'm guessing that's what you meant in your OP, not AEB) while we had the AQY/APK/AZH. I haven't seen any builds running an ABA bottom-end w/ AEG head so I assume there's 1) not much difference or 2) doesn't fit. From what Matt has posted, I'm guessing #1 would be the correct answer. However a common mod is to run the AEG intake manifold on the ABA as it has larger ports and runners. There are a few DIY articles on Vortex so hit it up for what you might need there. The AEG intake manifold I believe is the same as the intake manifolds we have on our Mk4 2.0L 8V. Part number is: 06A 133 203 AA for AEG; 06A 133 203 H for AQY/APK; 06A 133 203 AM for AZH. I don't know what the letters at the end of the part numbers mean though, but hey, the numbers are the same! :P

ELSAWIN's not working on my new computer but I'll try installing it on my sister's laptop and check the specs between ADY and AGG to see if there's much of a difference. I do remember being able to compare between engine codes. At the moment, all I know is, Aussie-delivered Mk3 2.0L were 2E for the very early ones, ADY from late '94 to early '96, and AGG were fitted after that (could be wrong).

Valvetrain parts between the ADY and ABA are the same - the OBDI ABA and early ADY engines (engine numbers upto 000 778 ) use the dual valve-spring setup, whereas the OBDII and later ADY engines (000 779+) use single valve-springs. I've cross-referenced the part numbers and they are identical. That said, the engines with single valve-springs can be converted to dual valve-springs as long as the spring retainers (lower and upper) from the dual valve-spring setup are used. Intake and exhaust valves I'm not sure, I didn't check them. Hydraulic lifters are interchangeable between all 2.0L 8V, including Mk4s. The thing is, the Mk4 ones are lighter (by 15g each), so I think better performance can be had by using them (part number 050 109 309 J). I don't know what the implications are relating to wear, but from what I've read and asked about, as long as the components are used in their original place (inlet valve for cylinder 1, exhaust valve for cylinder 1 etc.) then it should be fine (obviously this only applies if you're reusing these parts). Standard camshafts have different part numbers between ADY and ABA, but they're interchangeable (many UK owners have upgraded to camshafts imported from the US and they work fine).

Just FYI, the part numbers were pulled out from ETKA version 7.2.

[Water Boy]

Yeah AEG sorry.

So can I whack a Mk4 cross flow head onto a Mk3 2e block?

[Water Boy]

And AQY/APK/AZH are all 2ltr cross flows from Mk4, New bettle or bora?

[rayray086]

They use the same intake manifold so I'm going to say yes.

[Water Boy]

They use the same intake manifold so I'm going to say yes.

Thats interesting that a non-cross flow head has the same inlet bolt up pattern as a cross flow head.

I think there is only one way for me to find out get a 2e bottom end a crossflow head and whack the 2 togther.

[rayray086]

Thats interesting that a non-cross flow head has the same inlet bolt up pattern as a cross flow head.

I meant they use the same manifold as the AEG.

[jayjay]

This is an ABA inlet manifold. It has mounting holes on the top and bottom of the runners.
http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/SANY1680jpg1283346909-1.jpg

This is a mk2 8v counter-flow inlet manifold. All of the counterflow heads have the same runner spacing and manifold bolt provisions.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_pqtWpB7btpA/S4nWnaENMHI/AAAAAAAAAf8/hGe9TrZmea4/s800/Intake%20Manifold%201.JPG

These are not interchangable. The ABA, i believe, uses a US specific head, with a similar bottom end as the AGG motor. The early ABAs apparently came with squirters for pistons and the late model ones didn't. There are different schools of thought on their necessity but many are adament that they're really quite useful.

A common conversion in the states is the ABA 16v motor. They never got the 2.0 16v ABF motor domestically, and there are probably millions of 2.0 8v engines that can be had for pennies. The block heights (aussie 2.0 8v and ABA) are the same, which are different to pretty much every other 8v, as is rod length. The change the pistons and use any 16v head (PL heads are common as **** in the states) = effectively 2.0 16v ABF. It's a lot cheaper to send pistons from europe than it is short motors.

Basically, they make 16v motors with their block and older CIS heads. You could do this just as easily, but it's not nearly as cost effective because 16v motors/heads here, are sufficiently rare too.

[Water Boy]

Thanks for that info Jay.

I thin im pretty determind to get a crossflow head onto a 2e block. (How I will find out)

[Water Boy]

Been doing some more reading:


Only real mod to use it on the older type blocks is to reduce the oval oil channel to a smaller round one after which the 2E style head gasket works fine.

[Water Boy]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/vw16vhurricane22-1.jpg

[Water Boy]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/DivaDubsShow140609022-1.jpg

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/DivaDubsShow140609017-1.jpg

[jayjay]

om nom nom nom.

nice set ups. :) oh how i wish i spent money on a cross flow... so much more space!!

so is it cross flow that you want? or itbs? i have a sneaky counterflow itb project... in my mind. :P

[Peter Jones]

There's a set of ABA TWM ITBs going cheap on the 'tex at the moment..

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5010378-2.0-8valve-TWM-itb-s-BAND-NEW! (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5010378-2.0-8valve-TWM-itb-s-BAND-NEW%21)

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz33/Grimace_/35ec16c8.jpg

[rayray086]

Those engines look ****in' beautiful. I can really appreciate engine detailing now that I've got mine up on a stand and it looks like it's been shat out by bigfoot.

[Water Boy]

Pete thats naughty but so fine...

[Preen59]

Interesting.. I thought about a cross flow 8v before I said "Ahh **** it i'll be ridiculous" and bought a 16v. I'll be interested to see what you come up with dude. :)

[Preen59]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/vw16vhurricane22-1.jpg

Heh, that's a 16v too, dude. :P

[Water Boy]

The bloke that build this and I are becoming good pen pals:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/2790822074_90724165ef_z-1.jpg

[Water Boy]

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/images/imported/2010/09/DSC01408-1.jpg

[anthony--t]

I'm going to bump a mega old thread in hopes someone has any new info on this....

Though I think most the og forum guys don't come around these parts anymore...

Pretty curious about what's involved with fitting a mk4 head on a 1.8 mk2 8v block.

[Water Boy]

I bought a heap of parts and didnt go much further!

And im still here!

[dylan8]

did someone say mk4 8v powerhouse?

[madglf3]

^Rematch???

[ozgti]

Did you get any further?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[77aggmk1]

I'm just about to do this myself , I have a

Autotech 270 cam
Autoech vernia gear
An head o6b103373A I think apk

A low km mk3 cabrio with a 2.0 agg

I was going to run cbr 1000 itbs but now will be going dbilias seeing they make a kit for this.

I'll let you know how I go.