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gpk_gti
13-04-2007, 04:38 PM
Hi guys,
Just got the latest 'march 07' PERFORMANCE VW.Elliot Roberts EDITOR,on the inner page writes-
QUOTE-
"Now its not like me to start off on a negative note,but while the scene and the mag may be on an all time high,Im a great believer in saying it is.. so on that note i'll get straight to the point.Ive never heard so much bitching and squabbling in all my life as I recently . we appreciate all your emails and comments but its the back-stabbing and general bitchiness on,dare I say it,A NUMBER OF WELL-KNOWN FORUMS that makes us occasionally question WHAT WE ARE ALL DOING HERE.Far as long as I can remember the VEEDUB camp HAS BEEN THE FRIENDLIEST and generally safest place to be.its the scene that always ticked the right boxesfor me and put me in touch with so many like minded friends.
I guess its inevitable that a number of people want in on the action and to be part of a scene that some of us have devoted many years to and which has evolved into something that,lets not beat around the bush here,is pretty bloody extraordinary.so is it this sudden wash of newbies that are causing waves,purely the 'open' forums(that have given everybody the right to be super-critical),or just the modern 'british'(mmm aussie too??)way?who knows?
As per usual its only A SMALL NUMBER OF NUMB-NUTS attempting to ruin things for everyone and ,as columnist MIKE LONDON touched on a couple of months back,THIS CLUELESS BUNCH ARE USUALLY THE TYPE WITH NOT MUCH TO OFFER OTHER THAN NEGATIVITY.Its one thing being constructive with your criticism but puely running somebodys five minutes of fame out of pure spite isnt big and,well,you know the rest.
Its clearly something we all need to nip in the bud sooner rather than later.How,I really dont know."

sorry guys,my fingers getting tired,but that was the main body of the article without any edits,apart from my "aussie"edit.

Im not trying to stir anything up(in light of recent events),just showing we are not alone in our problems here.Please remember,I didnt write this,just copied it for our members to read.I think ill scan it tomorrow and add it here.
:)

BlackVr6ix
13-04-2007, 04:48 PM
I have noticed this not only on dub related forums but almost every forum i frequent.

its a shame that such a small number of fools can make entire forums look bad :(

syncro
13-04-2007, 05:57 PM
I find this one of the friendliest forums around.:)

gpk_gti
13-04-2007, 06:06 PM
its the only vw forum worth being a member of!! we are known for being friendly and helpful.

syncro
13-04-2007, 06:46 PM
its the only vw forum worth being a member of!! we are known for being friendly and helpful.

Yeah, if you don't want to play nice, go to another forum!

(That's what I do.):D

BlackVr6ix
13-04-2007, 06:46 PM
Sorry, i should have expained i meant every forum but this one!

BlackVr6ix
13-04-2007, 06:47 PM
go to another forum!

(That's what I do.):D


As much as i agree, probably best that we don't start specific forum bashing.

syncro
13-04-2007, 06:49 PM
As much as i agree, probably best that we don't start specific forum bashing.

But I didn't say that it was an Australian forum.

gpk_gti
13-04-2007, 06:53 PM
comon guys!! dont start this again,,please.... syncro,,can you edit please mate...

gpk_gti
13-04-2007, 07:04 PM
thanks syncro!! I appreciate it.dont want any wars here,just would like us to think a little!!!
pm'd blackvr6ix

BlackVr6ix
13-04-2007, 07:16 PM
Its all good mate, consider it edited

static1800
13-04-2007, 07:25 PM
This kind of thread can get touchy, lets all remember that by arguing about this sort of topic we(this forum community) are becoming the creature that we are trying to not become.

Please don't take it up a notch, only warning being given.

gpk_gti
13-04-2007, 09:43 PM
This kind of thread can get touchy, lets all remember that by arguing about this sort of topic we(this forum community) are becoming the creature that we are trying to not become.

Please don't take it up a notch, only warning being given.
if by only discussing what is happening in the greater community we run the risk of becoming as bad as the rest ,well,as a community we have a problem.hiding it or sweeping it under the carpet will not help it,only delay the inevitable. I really believe that we are better than what is happening out there and hope that by disussing the issues we can as a community come to a solution.

please if you feel like leaving a post,please make it constuctive.
thank you.:)

gpk_gti
13-04-2007, 11:33 PM
you know guys,I have spent some time in the last couple of days doing some research on what happens on forums.Im new to this,I have not come from 15 other sites or am a member or mod of 10 or 50 other forum sites.I AM A MEMBER ON VWW AND ONLY VWW.I wasnt going to write anything of my opinion here,but hell,I ive changed my mind.did we forget our manners or somehow believe that because" im sitting in front of this box in my house there is not a real person on the other end".THERE IS!!! disrespecting and "flaming" your fellow member is just not on,and it seems that its the same people that antagonise or push people into starting trouble.its these same people that are members of many forum sites and believe"ahh well ,get banned on one site,ive got 10 others"
so if you are one of these people that have nothing better to do with your time DONT POST,no need to name names here,you know who you are,think about YOUR FELLOW MEMBER(yes this is a community ,not a nazi regime)and how that upsets or makes him/her feel.
sorry for my rant ....:(

Spyda
14-04-2007, 12:07 AM
Just remember this:

Arguing on the internet is like the special Olympics, whether you win or lose your still retarded.

I will admit i like a good debate about cars (DEBATE) but some times it gets out of hand with some people.

I am proud to say that my virtual tuning community can't be beat for friendlyness, we are the most layed back and friendly community out there, and my staff and I keep it that way by kicking out the trouble makers, we are all for sharing opinions but it has to be done constructivly. We dont need the ones who are negative, a buz kill if you will.

Make a stand and kick the bastards out, display it openly (wanker rank) to show new members that you dont take that kindo crap.

You also have to remember that it is a community and you should be able to share your opinion and you should not have to conform to fit in.

PS. I know i havnt been here very long, but i would like to say its a great place, you guys are very friendly and open. Great job with the community.

gpk_gti
14-04-2007, 12:17 AM
hehe,mikinoz(confusus) said recently,nobody wins a internet fight.
I KNOW he is right and so are you.
thats exactly what I was thinking,ZERO TOLERANCE or ALLOW EVERYTHING(like another well known forum).cant be both.

syncro
14-04-2007, 05:12 AM
The problem is on this forum, if someone has a different opinion than you, they get upset about it.

gpk_gti
14-04-2007, 08:05 AM
static1800 or Brackie,if I have written anything offensive here please edit it.
thanks.

static1800
14-04-2007, 08:30 AM
Everyone is entitled to voice their opinions, free speech is wonderful but we all need to remember that thing's can be taken WAY out of context over the internet. Before you post a response have a think about what the person may be trying to say and don't snap to a reaction. Little thing's like this can help this place stay as wonderful as it is now.

DIDZ
14-04-2007, 11:50 AM
Here's another example of how we aren't alone with this problem.

From the GOLF+ magazine in Feb07

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s240/THE-DIDZ/DSC01497.jpg

syncro
14-04-2007, 12:00 PM
I think that we are alone 'cause we don't really have a problem! Most of the guys here are good blokes. Go check out the other forums.

rayray086
14-04-2007, 02:44 PM
I think that we are alone 'cause we don't really have a problem! Most of the guys here are good blokes. Go check out the other forums.

x 2 :)

Edit: forum says my message is too short, but there's not much more to write!

brackie
14-04-2007, 03:52 PM
I like this thread. We're having a sensible debate without getting personal and causing distress to other forum members.

In general the behaviour of our users has been excellent and in the almost 2 years since we have been running it's only been necessary to ban one member and he was given miles of rope before we did. There have been lots of instances of flaming and abuse but generally the admin team and mods have acted on it quickly because other users have alerted us. I would like to see this continue, please. I don't see it as "telling tales" but as preventative maintenance that makes this a good place to be.

On a couple of occasions I have been accused of "over-editing" and "over-reacting", however I make no excuses for this. In general if I see a problem arising I contact the person who is causing it directly and ask them to back off. In 99% of cases they've done this with an apology and haven't transgressed again. I'll continue to do this in the future, but remember that mods and admin are people too and we have feelings. I was a high school teacher and TAFE lecturer for 27 years and I had to deal with all kinds of people including upholding rules and handing out discipline, so this is nothin' new to me. Don't get me wrong, I don't want this forum run like a classroom but we have to have standards of behaviour because if we don't people get hurt.

Recently we lost Eddy, who I believe is a kind and cheerful person who loved this forum. He made the choice to leave because of the behaviour of another user who made him feel uncomfortable, and I know that everyone has different comfort limits but we should all be sensitive to each others' feelings and behave accordingly.

I transgressed reasonable behaviour by calling dealers "stealers" and although I did this because the play on words amused me at the time, it certainly didn't amuse a user who works in the trade! I became contrite and publicly apologized to him, 'cos that was the right thing to do.

So if we all try to do the "right thing" and think about the feelings and possible reactions of others we can keep this forum the way it is. A comfortable, safe and non-threatening place to be.

(Phew...Haven't gone so long about anything for years :) .)

gpk_gti
14-04-2007, 04:12 PM
Go check out the other forums.Im not interested or do I care about any other forums,I care about this forum and its members.so thats why I have gone to the trouble of writing this thread.


I don't see it as "telling tales" but as preventative maintenance that makes this a good place to be.

This is exactly how I feel.by discussing the current issue we as a community understand that ,yes there is someone on the other side of the screen,who "might get upset by what I have written".You are also right brackie that this is not a classroom with untold amounts of laws BUT I believe there is a small number of people that forget that this is still a group/club/comunity and we must still remember our manners(as we do in normal face to face contact).
I have met some of the members that I have argued with online and funnily enough,their online persona is nothing like the quiet/unasuming/friendly people they are in real life.:)
constructive debate whether for or against can only make us better.
thanks...

Golfer
14-04-2007, 09:27 PM
Hey guys,

I think this thread is fantastic, kudos to George for taking the initiative.

We have in no way become a complete blithering mess of a forum. A few recent hiccups are tarnishing our otherwise near-faultless record. I agree that this is merely preventative maintainence - if we are aware of what the problem is, then we have the opportunity to avoid making this problem ourselves. Lets learn from someone else's mistakes...

The vast majority of people on here have nothing but constructive opinions to contribute, and many friendships have formed as a result of this forum, right across the board. We don't have a big problem with serial "flamers" like on the vast majority of public forums on the internet, because we make the effort to keep our friendly community exactly that - a friendly community.

If I may, I would like to impart one piece of my own mindset...

We are all sitting in front of computers. A screen and keyboard at best, with little or no emotion, and what we take away from the experience depends entirely on us. No amount of emoticons, bold type, j/k's or winks can be a real substitute for normal human interaction, subtlties in voice tone and body language in specific. Please consider this before you type - "In how many different ways could anyone else interpret what I am writing?". Make it clear, and understand that just because you know what you are trying to say, it's not always clear to everybody else, and not everybody is always in the same state of mind as yourself. If we all take this into consideration, no-one needs to constrict their opinions, just make the effort to make it absolutely clear. If someone misunderstands you, make the effort to let them know what you were actually trying to say, and hope that they will offer you the opportunity to correct them. And don't be offended if someone else doesn't agree with you, we're not all the same, just share a common interest, and we're all friendly contributing individuals.

I have a lot of pride in this forum. Like George, VWW is my only online forum, because let's face it - It is the only online VW COMMUNITY!!!

Share the dub love!!!
J;)HN

shaneth
15-04-2007, 12:14 AM
Ok i thought i would add my 2c worth. Might not even be worth that much. j: As i tell everyone tha i greet on this forum, it is a friendly forum. Probably the friendliest i have ever been on or read and i have been on a few quite (15-20 maybe more if i sit down and count :D) But as with any large gathering of people there is going to be a clash of personalities, its how we dal with them that sets us apart.


If I may, I would like to impart one piece of my own mindset...

We are all sitting in front of computers. A screen and keyboard at best, with little or no emotion, and what we take away from the experience depends entirely on us. No amount of emoticons, bold type, j/k's or winks can be a real substitute for normal human interaction, subtlties in voice tone and body language in specific. Please consider this before you type - "In how many different ways could anyone else interpret what I am writing?". Make it clear, and understand that just because you know what you are trying to say, it's not always clear to everybody else, and not everybody is always in the same state of mind as yourself. If we all take this into consideration, no-one needs to constrict their opinions, just make the effort to make it absolutely clear. If someone misunderstands you, make the effort to let them know what you were actually trying to say, and hope that they will offer you the opportunity to correct them. And don't be offended if someone else doesn't agree with you, we're not all the same, just share a common interest, and we're all friendly contributing individuals. Here Here, couldnt agree more. One thing i would like to add to this is that if you do have a problem or upset use the PM function, not only can you talk directly to them (and generally they will make amends once they find out the way you feel) but it also keeps the forums clean if this conversation goes on for a bit. There is nothing worse then a thread being taken over by bickering between 2 or more members. Not only does it bring morale down (which if you notice generally a section of the forum will go quite after a little incident) but if other people are considering joining and see it they may think twice.



Recently we lost Eddy, who I believe is a kind and cheerful person who loved this forum. He made the choice to leave because of the behaviour of another user who made him feel uncomfortable, and I know that everyone has different comfort limits but we should all be sensitive to each others' feelings and behave accordingly.

I couldnt agree more brackie its a terrible loss to the forum loosing Eddy and i hope he comes back soon. You and admin and mods do a terrific job and i take my hats off to you as i know from experience its not easy to be a mod at times. And unfortuneatly you have to take the hard line sometimes. Which isnt always a popular thing to do but is the best thing for the COMMUNITY in general.

In closing after my little speech j: This is only my opinion and experiences. This is a terrific forum and i hope that we can make this better by having grown up conversations like this.

DubSteve
15-04-2007, 02:46 AM
I couldnt agree more brackie its a terrible loss to the forum loosing Eddy and i hope he comes back soon. You and admin and mods do a terrific job and i take my hats off to you as i know from experience its not easy to be a mod at times. And unfortuneatly you have to take the hard line sometimes. Which isnt always a popular thing to do but is the best thing for the COMMUNITY in general.


Well said Shaneth, and I aggree with Brackie, George and all other members. We are a friendly community, the friendliest forum I have ever gone on. This only sends messages of greatness for the forum as we can only expand cause of this. The article a few days ago about our forum in PVW, was great we with that bit of priceless advertisement, we can only saw to new heights.

syncro
15-04-2007, 08:23 AM
Problems with forums;

1/ People don't read the posts correctly.

2/ People without a sense of humor.

3/ Some people are paranoid.

4/ Some people take an opinion personally.

If you misunderstand, it is better to send a PM than a post.

DaveMack
15-04-2007, 10:31 AM
Problems with forums;

1/ People don't read the posts correctly.

2/ People without a sense of humor.

3/ Some people are paranoid.

4/ Some people take an opinion personally.

If you misunderstand, it is better to send a PM than a post.

Couldn't agree more, Phill. (Your website is looking a treat.)

Cheers,
Dave

gpk_gti
15-04-2007, 04:45 PM
We are all sitting in front of computers. A screen and keyboard at best, with little or no emotion, and what we take away from the experience depends entirely on us. No amount of emoticons, bold type, j/k's or winks can be a real substitute for normal human interaction, subtlties in voice tone and body language in specific. Please consider this before you type - "In how many different ways could anyone else interpret what I am writing?". Make it clear, and understand that just because you know what you are trying to say, it's not always clear to everybody else, and not everybody is always in the same state of mind as yourself. If we all take this into consideration, no-one needs to constrict their opinions, just make the effort to make it absolutely clear. If someone misunderstands you, make the effort to let them know what you were actually trying to say, and hope that they will offer you the opportunity to correct them. And don't be offended if someone else doesn't agree with you, we're not all the same, just share a common interest, and we're all friendly contributing individuals.


J;)HN
now this is the type of input I was hoping for.this should go into our rules of forum.
Dont know about you guys but im learning alot from this thread.please remember,I dont have such a long FORUM backround.I do have alot of internet experience(ebay and other;) ) but not with forums.so, maybe there are more like me on here? or just need a different perspective on forums and how their fine machinations work.
please keep up the input,or maybe we should have a forum round table thread stickied??(just a thought )or have someone everyone feels they can pm with forum problems without any bias? or felling like they are bothering them??
thanks again!!

syncro
15-04-2007, 04:58 PM
How about, "If you wouldn't say it face to face, don't post it"!

gpk_gti
17-04-2007, 10:10 AM
that definatley should be written in the rules syncro!!:)


whilst we are on the subject of forums.what is everyones feelings on shameless plugs for carparts brands(that im sure they will receive a monetary benefit) eg,someone posts looking for suspension brand ABC address and receives a bombardment of other "offers", or
taking orders for parts that I do not own,receiving deposit for said items ,then making a order including "my personal" part which has been paid from the profit.what happened to group buys?

shaneth
17-04-2007, 05:00 PM
i do group buys j:

gpk_gti
17-04-2007, 05:03 PM
thats why we love you shaneth!!!very vww.org minded person! thanks for your time doing that for our members..

phaeton
19-04-2007, 12:47 PM
Just wanted to say that this forum is amongst the Top 3 in my postings due to the warmth of all enthusiasts here.

I agree with all the positives that has been said so far, kudos to all the sensible posters out there ;)

vinderliker
19-04-2007, 03:20 PM
I reckon you are all great, the advice and support that I get from this forum is immeasurable.

gpk_gti
25-04-2007, 10:08 AM
believe it or not ,I found this while surfing the tex,its in their RULES!!! if you guys get a chance read it!! its quite good.

There are going to be topics and discussions that will have heated debates. Please think before you post and re-read what you type before you post it. Keep your comments limited to the debate at hand and not make this a personal issue between you and another reader. There is tremendous diversity in age, race, gender, language, location (worldwide) and more here and there will be a lot of varying opinions on different subjects. We're all human beings and we we're all drawn to this site because we have a common bond as Volkswagen and car enthusiasts.



http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerohelp?show=&topic=Rules

99gti
09-06-2007, 04:50 PM
Great topic of discussion, and I'm pleased with the maturity people have taken when responding. I wasn't going to reply but I'm going to:

Other than having a passion for cars, I'm also a fairly active member of my comunity. One of the biggest issues we deal with is people defaming others because of the way they live their lifes.

The freedom to have an opinion is something that we take for granted and we all to often abuse. Imagine yourself as a part of a comunity that is denied civil rights, has to constantly defend themselves from peoples views based from no experience and live your life as a sub-standard species. Being a part of a comunity like that opens your eyes to the world, but you don't hold it against them.

Unfortunetly we don't all have opened hearts and minds and we still pass judgement based on the beliefs or misconceptions of others. This ultimately is what makes us human.

Next time you want to pass judgement on someone, or make an attept to take a personal attack on someone based on their view, ask yourself is it really worth the effort? It seems like such a small thing to me yet we live in a world where this is still our biggest problem.

There's my rant, and again this is just my view.

Neil.
A loud and proud member of vww.

Jettinabout
10-07-2007, 05:27 PM
If you are going to buy into a post that has the potential to explode(for want of a better term) then write out your reply and sit on it for a day or so...that way there is some thought applied to the matter and the emotions are taken out of the equation.....

This is an extremely informative, friendly and well mannered forum...we should all strive to keep it that way....although as VW owners and potential owners we don't have to try very hard....:D:D:D:cool:

425i
31-10-2007, 11:54 PM
I have only been a member for a short time but I think its a great forum and a very friendly place. I havnt seen any flaming at all or any agression.
Im a member of 5 other forums and admin for an email forum I started on yahoo( which has been a bit of a flop). One of the forums I am on had a raging war at one stage. The war stopped dead when one of the members who had some real money ( I.T. millionaire) did some investigating using his resources and found out that the guy who started the war and kept fueling it was an anthropologist/psycolgist who studied conflict!!
This is a great forum and really alive which is the real sign of a succsessful forum.
Having a mixed admin team really helps i think. Im a member of one forum were there is only one administrator and due to this that forum is as quite as a grave...
i havn't posted much on here yet as being a new owner I don't know much!

DaveMack
01-11-2007, 12:02 AM
I have only been a member for a short time but I think its a great forum and a very friendly place. I havnt seen any flaming at all or any agression.
Im a member of 5 other forums and admin for an email forum I started on yahoo( which has been a bit of a flop). One of the forums I am on had a raging war at one stage. The war stopped dead when one of the members who had some real money ( I.T. millionaire) did some investigating using his resources and found out that the guy who started the war and kept fueling it was an anthropologist/psycolgist who studied conflict!!
This is a great forum and really alive which is the real sign of a succsessful forum.
Having a mixed admin team really helps i think. Im a member of one forum were there is only one administrator and due to this that forum is as quite as a grave...
i havn't posted much on here yet as being a new owner I don't know much!

Just a couple of rules mate ... pics of your car are (practically) mandatory and it helps if you fill in location details so that, if you need help, someone local can help you.

Welcome to the forum.

Dave

425i
01-11-2007, 12:11 AM
Just a couple of rules mate ... pics of your car are (practically) mandatory

to easy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14111592@N02/

(hope the link works)

DaveMack
01-11-2007, 12:37 AM
Just a couple of rules mate ... pics of your car are (practically) mandatory

to easy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14111592@N02/

(hope the link works)

It's coming along quite nicely, Mate. Still lots to do, I see. Good luck with it.

Dave